Welcome to episode 100 of the podcast, time has gone so fast! I wanted to make sure this episode was special, so for this episode only I have got someone else taking over. The reason being, they are going to be interviewing me and my wonderful husband. So, for this week only, I would like to hand you over to Biz Paul.
KEY TAKEAWAYS COVERED IN THE PODCAST
- When I first started my podcast there was growth but it wasn’t until month nine that my stats experienced that ‘hockey stick’ growth. It’s taken time and money, but it’s worth it because I can teach so many people at once.
- Without the podcast, I wouldn’t have been able to get in front of the people I have been able to. From Michael Hyatt to Amy Porterfield, I’ve had some incredible guests. It’s invaluable.
- Learning how to have a positive mindset is incredibly important in the early days of your business.
- When working with a partner, patience and support are really important.
THE ONE THING YOU NEED TO REMEMBER ABOVE ALL ELSE…
If you’re selling something that is of good quality, you don’t have to apologise for trying to tell.
HIGHLIGHTS YOU SIMPLY CAN'T MISS
- Hello from Biz Paul – 01:27
- #1 How Does It Feel to Reach 100 Episodes? – 03:48
- #2 Why Did You Decide to Do A Podcast and When Did You See Growth? – 04:58
- #3 What Is the Biggest Outcome from Your Podcast for You? – 07:17
- #4 Getting to Know (My Husband) Paul – 08:34
- #5 The Story of Teresa and Paul At Home – 13:56
- #6 Paul and the Business – What Does He Do? – 20:00
- #7 Sharing Your Life on Social Media – 35:15
- #8 Have Your Lives Changed in Anyway? – 38:30
- #9 What Would Your Life Be Like if Marketing Didn’t Exist? – 47:00
- #10 Would You Have Done Anything Differently Over the Last 5 Years? – 50:00
- #11 What Are Some of Your Biggest Mistakes? – 52:00
- #12 What Does the Future Hold? – 56:40
Hello, and welcome to episode 100 of the podcast. Wow, I can't believe we're at 100 already. It feels like … I don't know. Well, in some ways it feels like two minutes since I started, and then also feels like I've done it for a million years as well, which is odd. Anyway, I wanted to make this episode different and special and interesting because it's 100 episodes and I didn't want to do what I do every other episode.
For this episode only, I have got someone else taking over, and the reason I have someone else taking over is because they're interviewing me and my very wonderful husband. I would like to hand you over, very nervously, to the amazing BizPaul, who is going to be looking after the show today. Please enjoy.
Hello from Biz Paul
Well, hello there. A super warm welcome to this very special interview with the lovely Teresa Heath-Wareing, and her husband, Paul Campbell. It's such a pleasure and an absolute honour to have been asked to talk to Teresa and Paul today because, just like you, I'm an avid listener to the Marketing That Converts Podcast, and I know that everyone has different ways of listening, but I tend to listen on a Monday morning during the commute to the office.
I love hearing the amazing guests that come on this show and the lessons that Teresa shares, her experience with everybody. Because I guess it doesn't matter whether you're an entrepreneur just starting out, or a more experienced marketer. Other people's experiences are really valuable to hear. Without further ado, Teresa and Paul, welcome to the podcast.
This is the weirdest thing ever. First off, and I've got to be really conscious that I don't take my own podcast back off of you, BizPaul, but that was a little bit like we were about to get married. “I'd like to gather you here today in the witness hall.”
It feels a bit like I'm presiding over your podcast for a bit. I am genuinely honoured that you've asked me to talk to you guys.
There was no one better to do it, BizPaul.
Thank you. It's just that weight of responsibility. I'm representing the listeners here, so I'm just going to ask you everything-
I was going to say you crack on.
You go ahead.
How does it feel to be on the other side of the question?
Do you know what? If I was on someone else's podcast, then that's fine. I think I'd be fine. The fact that this is mine feels … It's exciting, but I am scared because I'm a control freak and I like to know what's going on and I have no idea what's going on.
Don't know what the questions are.
Obviously, to have a podcast with Paul with me is very odd as well, but wonderful.
It's strange to me because I listen to your podcasts in the car when I'm driving around and stuff. Yeah, you always ask me questions, so I need to answer them, so yeah. It's going to be really interesting to listen to myself in the car, which is weird.
Well, I hope I do a good job because this is a very special episode. It's the 100th episode of the podcast. Let's talk about that for a moment.
#1 How Does It Feel to Reach 100 Episodes?
How does it feel to have reached the milestone of 100 episodes?
You know what? It's really odd because I don't even think I thought about getting to that point or what that would mean in terms of time, because it basically means I've almost done this for two years, which is crazy. I just love it, so it's almost flown by, that you wouldn't even know that we'd got here. I wanted to mark it with something a bit different, a bit special. I've had some amazing guests, and that's the other thing, actually.
Because as I was running up to the 100, I was like, “Right, who have we had on? What sort of things have we talked about?” and, honestly, the people I've had on, I could not be more honoured to have half of those people. They were a phenomenal half … I mean all of them, but you know what I mean. The other half are rubbish. I'm joking, but honestly, that was amazing. I love doing the podcast, to think that I'm at 100 is crazy. Let's get to 200.
It takes some doing, doing a podcast. There's a fair amount of effort in full, from the organisation to the recording and the editing and the publishing and the promoting of it as well.
#2 Why Did You Decide to Do A Podcast and When Did You See Growth?
I'm not sure if anyone's asked you this directly, but why did you decide to do a podcast in the first place?
I'd done a blog. I was terrible at a blog. I hate writing, I've talked about that before, not a good writer, and I talk too much, so there we go. Perfect.
That was easy.
Just thought I'd see how it went and I don't think I ever thought it would go the way it has in terms of being successful it has. I just thought, “Let's see what happens,” and yeah, just started it, just thought, “I'll give it a go,” and love it. Other people seem to like it, which is awesome, and people say nice things about it, so yeah.
You're still going.
I'm still going.
Because one of the things that people often talk about when it comes to podcasts is being consistent and sticking at it because it takes a while to grow their audience. I know that in previous episodes you've spoken about that hockey stick effect where, all of a sudden, it goes through the roof. You've had that experience, and can you remind us maybe of how many episodes that took before that happened?
Yeah, it was month nine.
It was nine months of doing the podcast, and don't get me wrong, there was growth and I saw bits of growth and people were saying good things about it, so I was still encouraged, but I always said, “One year, I'll do it for a full year. I'll see how it goes,” and literally, month nine, like I said, hockey stick. I remember talking to Paul about it and he's like, “What have you done?” I said, “No idea. I don't know what's happened. Why has it suddenly gone so amazing?” but it had, so you do need to be consistent.
The other thing is it is hard work, and some people do seasons and that's cool if they do seasons; that's obviously their bag, but for me, I wanted to get to the point where every week, every Monday, you knew that there was something to listen to because everything's about habit, isn't it? If I get into a habit of listening to something, or if I get into a habit of doing something, I want people to miss it if it's not there.
For me, even though it is hard work and it does take a huge amount of time to do it, and money, and I've been really honest about that, but it's the most expensive content I could do other than maybe video. It does take time and money, but it's really important and it's a great way for me to do teaching and teach so many people, which is amazing.
#3 What Is the Biggest Outcome from Your Podcast for You?
It's not a vanity project, is it? Is it must have some impact in your business and how you're perceived, or maybe it helps you build relationships with people. What's the biggest outcome for you?
Do you know what? I think for me the biggest thing is I could not have got in front of those people I've got in front of without this, so let's take Michael Hyatt. I can't even imagine what he costs for an hour of his time. I'm sure you couldn't buy him for an hour of his time, and yet I got to sit there and pick his brains for a whole hour. The same with Amy, the same with Pat, the same with James.
Phenomenal people that ordinarily would be really hard to get in front of, and suddenly you're having a really personal one-to-one conversation with them. Granted, we might be on a screen, he sat in his office, I'm in mine, but we're still looking at each other, we're still talking to each other, and that's invaluable, I think. That for me has been massive in terms of growing my brand and growing me as a person.
Again, there's no way on this earth I could have done what I've done with a blog what I've done with the podcast.
As you say, it's a format that works for you, so we're expecting this to go way beyond 200, 300.
Yeah, for sure. This is your thing, mate.
Well, you have had some amazing guests, but let's talk about today's guests. Well, I suppose you are a guest on your own podcast, but we know quite a bit about you, Teresa.
Yeah, a little bit.
#4 Getting to Know (My Husband) Paul
Paul, we know less about, so Paul, tell us a little bit about you.
Okay, so I come from a totally different world to Teresa, such as in work and everything you've probably heard from Teresa's past podcasts. I've just retired from the military about 25 years, and whilst 25 years in the military you get very closed-minded to a lot of things, as in it's just all military. You socialise with military people and it can be very closed-minded to anything else. However, meeting Teresa a some good few years back now has opened my mind to social media, marketing, all that stuff, and meeting amazing people like you, Paul.
It's opened my eyes to all of this podcast kind of thing and everything, so before I wouldn't even know what a podcast was, so now it's great. I find it really interesting and exciting, especially the journey that she's come on through. It's obviously the 100th episode, so pretty good.
That is nice.
I wonder whether this could get really emotional, actually.
Yeah, so what's some TV shows where they try and make you cry?
Yeah, don't do that, BizPaul.
We could put some background music on, in back of us. Some violins.
Ugly cry face. You wouldn't want to see it.
Now, Paul, I introduced you as Paul Campbell and I did that for a reason, because there's been some confusion, hasn't there, in the past as to who's called what?
You want to tell us about that?
Well, you continue.
Okay, so when I started the business, I was a bit of a fool, and I started it very quickly and I used my name at the time, which is Teresa Heath-Wareing, except that was part of my ex-husband's name, so my unmarried name, my maiden name is Teresa Heath. I got married and my surname changed to Teresa Heath-Wareing, and then I got divorced, but I'd already started the business during that time and my name is so unique.
You can google it, you can find me, I'm easy to find. When I met Paul, I was still Teresa Heath-Wareing, and then when I got married to Paul, I changed my personal stuff to Campbell, but in terms of my business world, I'm still Teresa Heath-Wareing, and everywhere we go, they always speak to him and call him Mr. Heath-Wareing.
Yeah. Well, I can understand why. However, it's a little bit grating sometimes. We were in a hotel the other day or something, it was Mr. Heath-Wareing, and actually he called me something else, didn't he?
Called you Keith Wareing.
Keith Wareing, so that was even worse in some case, so I have to bite my tongue and laugh it off, really …
Yeah, but it's a bit awkward just because if it wasn't my ex-husband's name, if it was just my maiden name, it would probably be okay.
It got in the way of your American visa, ESTA thing, didn't it, as well?
We had a slight issue when we were going to Nashville, flying first class. First time ever on planes, always make that clear, and forgot to update my ESTA, went to check in, we were both so excited and my ESTA was in the wrong name, so yeah. We had a bit of a nightmare. Nearly missed our very first first class flight.
Did you keep it together, Paul?
We both stayed very calm.
We were amazing.
Internally, that was another thing. It was very stressful, but it all came good in the end.
Yeah. I do find that, having known you, Paul, that you are a very calm, almost Zen-like figure, which is what works, I think, from knowing you both. Would that be fair?
No, I think so, yeah, because especially our life at home can be quite erratic and having two kids at home and now two dogs at home, it can be very busy so I try and keep everything calm and cool, because obviously Teresa is super busy most of the time, so I try and keep everything else in the background nice and calm.
Yeah, sorry. Also, bearing in mind, Paul's worked in jobs that none of us can understand, so we get stressed about marketing or social media or someone has a breakdown because you've forgotten to do a tweet or something, and Paul flies to Iraq, exactly, some very dangerous places, and his life is in jeopardy at times and has to keep calm when something's going wrong. I guess for him, he must look at the stuff that we melt down about and be like …
Yeah, exactly, like, “Really, do you want to sort yourself out?” I think that's one of the things that helps him maintain his calmness.
Yeah, I think so. Through the experiences I've had through the military world and trying to keep calm in stressful situations, because if other people see you get stressed, then the people get stressed as well. Internally, I might not be as calm, but externally I keep it all cool.
If I may say so. I think there's an online course right there.
Really? My next career.
Yeah, being calm.
#5 The Story of Teresa and Paul At Home
Tell us a little bit about home life, then. Let's get some more backstory into this. Tell us maybe a little bit about how you met or what home life is like now and the setup that you have. Because if I was in your situation, I'll be honest, I wouldn't be bringing an extra dog into it, but obviously that's what you decided to do, so tell us a bit about how that works.
Okay, so we live at home with my daughter, who lives with us every other week, and my stepson, Paul's son, who lives with us full-time. We have two dogs now, we have a new puppy, which is hard work, and Paul's job is always taking him away. Even though he's left the Air Force, he's moving into a new role, which will take him away again, so it's very busy, very stressful at times because there's a lot of logistical nightmares.
If anybody's got kids, you'll know what logistical nightmare is like anyway, especially as they're growing up, because you don't actually know where they are half the time. Then, like the other day, I called upstairs to my stepson, Harvey, and was like, “Are you having dinner?” and he answered me like, “Yes, stupid,” and I thought, “Well, I don't know whether you are,” and half the time he doesn't. It just is a bit manic at times, but Paul is amazing. I am a very lucky lady. He does a lot of stuff right in my eyes.
How does it work in terms of that organisation, then? Because, as you said, Paul, you've been working away and will continue to do that, I guess. Teresa, you go all over the world with work and speaking and all that kind of stuff, and people in your academy are in different time zones, and then you've obviously got Harvey, he's clearly not putting his appointments in the shared Google Calendar for the family. How do you manage those logistics?
Actually, with you saying that, it actually highlights how manic it really is, because when you're in the situation, we try and just get on with it, but with you just saying that, it's like, “Gosh, how do we deal with it?” Like you were saying in the calendar, we do have a calendar and I get told off numerous times for not checking things when I book things in, and I forget the calendar's there, but yeah. The calendar helps massively, but we just get through it. I don't know how, really.
We try really hard not to plan too much when I have Bea.
Obviously, that's not always easy done. If I'm speaking somewhere, if it's something that someone's booking that I can't change the date, then sometimes it falls on a Bea week. Ideally, if we're booking stuff, I try and make it when she's not with us. I am very lucky in the fact that my ex-husband is very good at having her. He has her when we don't have her, so he is pretty flexible as well, which helps us massively, and Harvey is growing up, which is great. He's almost 17.
He's very independent. We've got close friends, close neighbours, so he's pretty good at looking after himself, but it is a case of being organised. We literally have a rundown every week of where are we, who are we seeing, what are we doing, who's looking after this person? Also, as well, Paul's parents are amazing.
Yeah, really lucky with that. With one of the dogs now, and we wouldn't expect them to look after the new one, but one of the dogs, the first dog, Charlie, they will always drop everything and take him whenever we need to, so we're really lucky with that. Even stuff around the house, they come and help out with.
It's hard work.
I'll tell you what this reminds me of. You're a team. The way that you're talking about it now, you've got a process about maybe you have your team meeting of the week to see what's going on. I've met Harvey, and total credit to you, I think he's really cool. It sounds like there's a team there, that you all understand each of those roles, you know what the priority is. You've got a system that might appear on the surface a bit manic, but actually you are in control of that.
Yeah, and I think for me, the fact that we are a team really helps me out in the sense of I dictate a lot. Slightly high maintenance. For instance, if I am recording a podcast, obviously we're at Role Based Media today, which very kindly let us use their equipment, but if I'm at home recording a podcast, the house has to be silent and I have to get all the children to be silent and Paul to be silent, and Paul has to manage the dogs.
Yeah, so in the background, even when the postman comes or anything, I have to turn the remote doorbell off and everything just in case, or make sure the dogs are shut away because, if the postman does come to the door, Charlie especially lets us know. Any noise, I get really stressed and try and shut it down.
You do, you're very kind that you try and manage that for me because he knows I'd get stressed. Because the thing is it's not so much necessarily the same quality, but sometimes if I can hear other stuff going on, I lose my train of thought and I get distracted. He does a lot of that. He just things as well, when I do master classes and webinars, he's on them, he's watching them. When I go live, if one of the team aren't watching, he's on there watching.
He really does do a massive support job in terms of my business and my role, and, actually, I don't take that for granted at all because I know lots of business people, who their husbands or wives or partners don't get it. They don't see it, they don't get it, they don't support them, and it makes it really hard. It makes it really uncomfortable. It makes it really difficult, and to try and tell a 10-year-old and a nearly 17-year-old, you have to be silent now for at least two hours and you can't go on the WiFi by the way, because I need the best WiFi as well.
Luckily, they all have their 4G stuff, which is cool, but to tell them they've got to do that, they're making a sacrifice, too, and the fact that both Paul and I can go … You know when we go on holiday, this might be the reason why. You know when we do this, this is why we do it, because “This is how T makes money and, therefore …” Oh yeah, they call me T, I just realised I said that. “This is how I make money and this is my business,” and therefore everyone is very understanding of that, aren't they?
They're part of the team?
#6 Paul and the Business – What Does He Do?
They're on board. They understand how it works. You mentioned support there, Teresa, and I just wondered, is that how you see it, Paul? Because to me, from the outside, it does feel very much like you're part of Team T.
Is that how you see it?
Yeah, definitely. I enjoy that role, as such. Like I said, this is a brand new world for me, however, I've become fairly familiar with it now.
He thinks he's a marketing expert.
I think there's many things-
Well, I was going to ask what have you learned about the marketing world?
I think posters are going to come back. Flyers through your door and stuff. I think online, digital marketing is dying.
Shall I tell you what people don't talk enough about?
Sponsoring the petrol-
What do they call it? The hose?
The petrol pump?
Yeah, underrated. Big ROI there, surely.
For sure. The amount of times I've been pumping fuel, that time could have been spent reading an advert of something.
He's ignoring people. He thinks he's very funny. He always thinks through osmosis, while we sleep, my marketing knowledge goes into his brain.
I teach you.
He'd like to think he does.
Have you picked up things?
Yeah, definitely. Another thing that I look after is the Kajabi side of things as well.
He's King Kajabi.
I've taken that on, which is cool because it's quite techie stuff and its processors, which I quite enjoy, but yeah. The marketing thing and all of that stuff I find really interesting, and having a military background, you learn a lot of things and you have to change as you go along throughout your career. This is just another change for me, and I'm used to change so. I find it super exciting and interesting.
You are genuinely interested, and if you see something, he'll go, “Oh, did you see that? They've done this, or what did you think of that?” and whatever.
I look at it from a complete isolated situation. I'll look at whatever you're doing and I'll read it and I'll be like, “Well, that doesn't really make sense to me, because …”
He gently critiques me.
Well, I think that's quite interesting because we're also working in the marketing sphere. I think that it's very easy to be in that bubble where you know what it means, but unless your audience is professional marketers …
Yeah, they don't know.
Then they may not know, so your audience are business owners and maybe people are working in marketing, but your audience and the people that listen to this podcast and people in your academy would value, I guess, having that internal feedback from Paul to you, is to say, “Well, actually no, this needs a little bit more of an explanation, or this needs to be broken down a little bit more.” Would you say that's the case?
No, I absolutely do, and I think there's lots of ways where someone who isn't in your industry can actually be a great sounding board. I know that Paul is not one of these people that, whether I wanted him to or not, would not just say something to be nice. He's a very honest person, so actually, he is a good sounding board because, one, I know he's paying attention to it and he listens and if I ask him something, he'll genuinely try and answer it properly.
Two, I know he's not just going to say what I want to hear, so he often comes and sees me speak and he's very critiquing about that, which is great because I want to be better. I want to be the best I can be and I'm happy for him to give me that feedback and be like, “Actually, this happened and this happened.” In fact, one of the conversations we had was about MarketEd.Live, because, as often does when you speak, things tech-wise go wrong because they do, and that's just a thing.
Paul was saying to me, because I was very nervous about MarketEd.Live this year because I did new content and you get comfortable with what you do. I was a little bit uncomfortable with what I was going to do because it was brand new and it was my stuff, and anyway, so I didn't feel like I was doing as brilliantly as I maybe would be doing on stage, and then the tech went wrong and then I just had to relax because there's nothing I can do about it.
I took it in my stride and I made a joke out of it, and Paul afterwards was like … Because I got off stage, I was like, “I didn't like that. I didn't think I did a very good job.” Not the tech, that didn't bother me at all. It was like, “I didn't think I did the best job there,” and he was like, “You were not yourself until that happened, and then suddenly you just relaxed and went into it.”
He's really good at that, and also the other thing he's really good at, taking ego out of stuff. Sometimes in this industry we get a bit wrapped up in the ego stuff because you want to be known. I want to be known, I want to be stood on a stage and have hundreds and thousands of people who want to listen to me and have their selfies taken with me and all this. Sometimes I need someone like Paul, either to remind me where I am and what I'm doing, but also when I get like that about other people, he's a really good sounding board and a really good measure of when he comes along to these things and meets these people that he's like, “Actually, do you think they're that great? Because maybe this, this, this.”
Again, that's really helpful when they're not, because you know what it's like. We get fan-girlish about certain people because they're in our worlds and we think that are amazing and he's just good because he's slightly stepped out of it where he can be like, “Yeah, they're cool, but is it worth spending $15,000 on something with them?”
Yeah, that is quite interesting because I agree with what you're saying there about the whole ego thing. Do you think, then, that that grounding makes your offering more genuine? It's not just about selling … “Buy my course, or 10x this,” do you know what I mean? Well, maybe you are interested in going to the big arenas and sign up for my $25,000 programme after a whole day of selling to you. I don't know, does it feel more real because you are less inclined to believe your own hype, so it must be real, if that makes sense?
I'm going to say yes, but I'm going to let Paul answer that because I think he's a good judge of whether I'm an honest person when I'm selling, when I'm promoting myself, how I come across.
I know you come across as you are, which I love because you see other people and I've been to lots of these events that you see other people and they're on the stage, they're one person, then they come off and they're someone totally different, where you are … If people see you on stage, that is Teresa that everyone knows at home and everywhere. I think you're too honest sometimes when it comes to it, and especially with the selling and everything, you struggle with that because … Yeah.
You're a great person and who wouldn't want to buy your stuff? The expertise that you have there on tap is amazing, so yeah. I think you're super genuine and down to earth.
I think you're the same person.
On stage as you are off stage.
I hope so, and I think for me, I don't ever want to be inauthentic, I don't want to be on the receiving end of being sold to. I want people to buy my stuff, obviously we have a mortgage to pay for. I can't rely on Paul forever, and I want amazing things. I want an amazing car, I want a bigger house, I want all those things. Of course I do, but I do see, and hopefully … Well, I'm sure Paul would more than agree, because I am soft and I do over-deliver, but hopefully when they're paying, they're getting really good value.
Even though I'm asking people to buy things, I'm only ever asking them when it's worth paying for it. As long as you know what you're getting and you're getting what you think you're getting, then that's fine. People get a bit funny about selling, and “I don't like it,” or “I don't like selling, but …” The point is I'm selling something that's good and, therefore, I'm not sorry about you having to give me money.
Right. Fair enough.
I think I over-deliver.
She's amazing for your customers.
They get an amazing deal.
You absolutely enjoy it. I see it day in, day out, especially when you do your coaching calls and all that stuff, and you've got them all on the screen there and the amount of energy that you put into it and the thought that you're helping these people.
Yeah. It's amazing. You're obviously really proud of Teresa, that comes across really quite well. I wonder, Teresa, was there ever a moment in this journey where you considered keeping Paul a bit distant from the business, that there was maybe a risk of getting your husband involved in it and what that might do in terms of the dynamics or home life?
That is really interesting. I think because the business is very much going forward as me and I am my business, it gives us very distinct roles. Do you know what I mean? Paul's very respectful of that. He's very respectful that it's me and I'm the business, and I'm very respectful that I take his opinion and listen to him, but I think if it got into a partnership thing, which we are a partnership, but you know what I mean? It's not the Paul and Teresa show.
It's not the Mr. and Mrs. Heath-Wareing.
It's definitely not that.
It'd never be like that, but it's not that. Paul understands … I'm not saying that I'm the boss. [crosstalk 00:29:26]
You're the figurehead here.
This is what people are buying, but you're not diminishing what Paul's role is. It's a different type of role, but it's valuable to the business.
Totally, and it's interesting when he does more practical stuff, like managing Kajabi, that I have to watch how I manage that in myself and how I manage Paul. Because I would say I'm a very nice boss to the rest of my team, but to Paul, obviously, it's different because he's my husband, so I am probably less …
Are you doing an appraisal for him?
I'm less patient with him than I am with everybody else, and I almost expect him to read my mind and he doesn't, which is really odd. If he could really work on his mind reading skills, that'd be awesome.
I think it's more your briefing skills.
I'm a terrible briefer, and with the rest of the team, I'd brief them really well, but because he's my husband, I think, “Oh, you know this, you know me. You know what's in my head.” Of course, he doesn't know, so actually that's the only time where it gets a little bit like, “Okay, but …” It's interesting bringing him into the business. It's changed what I want from it, so initially I wanted to bring him in to work full-time in the business and have a salary from the business.
Now, in my goals, I just write, “Well, he's young and he's retiring from one job and there's other exciting opportunities which he wants to do, which is cool,” but now I write, “I want to pay his salary,” so I want him to have the freedom to travel with me, to be my wing man when I speak, because he's a great wing man, and looks after me and drive me around when we're in different countries, and that's sort of thing, and I want him there, but I don't want him to feel like he has to do a role.
I want that support to be already in the business, and then he'd just be a bonus.
I think my role has morphed into what it is now.
When you started, when you left your proper job, as such, and we've been on that journey up to now, and then we know what each other … Obviously, we know your role, but what I do now.
Yeah, and mainly keeping me calm.
It's bound to be different, though, isn't it, from other members of the team because you're husband and wife?
Of course you're going to be less patient or you're going to expect him to read your mind because hat's what happens in a relationship, but it doesn't sound as though it's anything other than actually bringing you closer together. It just feels as though you're very much on the same page. I think-
Definitely, and when there's times … For example, I've been decorating my son's room for the last three, four days.
Glamorous life, really.
I've been detached from what Teresa's been doing, so it almost feels that we're a bit further apart in those times.
Yeah, it does.
Did you book an update meeting?
She needs to, definitely, but yeah.
When you travel as well, I don't like that, because previously when he travelled, we didn't talk to each other or we might not have been able to talk to each other, or he was often on a different time zone, and so the catch-ups would be really small or via text or whatever. We'd get to an end of a trip and he'd come back and I'd be like … There's loads I needed to tell him about the business and I just couldn't remember what half of it was, or I couldn't think.
Then something would happen and I'd be like, “Oh yeah, well, you didn't know that because you're away,” and I didn't like that. I think with this next role, he's going to be in the country, on my time zone, just not physically in my house with me at that time. Therefore, I think that's going to be easier because you do do things in the business and you do need to know these things.
With this new role, on my evenings I'll have a laptop so I can do the Kajabi stuff.
Work two jobs.
When you're away from each other and it's about work, do you Slack rather than WhatsApp?
I make him e-mail me formally, call me.
I fax it.
That's another marketing tip that you've got for the business. Faxing.
Faxing, where's that gone?
Yeah. I wonder, on a similar vein, do you separate personal life from work life or do you end up talking about things at the dinner table?
All the time.
Yeah. I wouldn't say at the dinner table. If we go out for-
Not the kids.
Yeah, not with the kids, but if we are at having a meal or a drink or whatever, then we often take laptops with us and do stuff.
We always have either a notebook or-
How does that feel? D you become conscious that, “Oh, hang on a second, we're always working,” or do you just feel like you get enough?
It doesn't feel like that.
No, which is great, isn't it, that we both said the same one? Because it doesn't, and in fact, I think sometimes that's when the best stuff comes out, because we're a bit more relaxed and we're doing it … Sometimes we consciously go to the pub on a Sunday if we don't have any children or Harvey's working and Bea's at her dad's, and we will consciously work from the pub or we'll stop work at 6:00 and go to the pub and work, knowing we need to do more work.
Then sometimes we go and it just happens organically and we just go, “Oh, actually, while we're here, let's think about this,” and we just do it because we start talking about it and it doesn't feel hard, does it?
#7 Sharing Your Life on Social Media
I think for Paul as well, because he's doing something that he is very different to what he does in his day job, it doesn't feel like work to him and it never feels like work to me because I love it. When we're not talking about work, we have a screen, so it's not like we are literally Mr. and Mrs. Let's Go to Work Today and that's all we do. If we didn't have fun times, then I think it would bother us during the work stuff.
I love seeing your Insta stories and the life that you and he curate, but is that why, do you think, it feels less onerous? You're not commuting from your home to an office for 9:00 and then leaving again at 5:30? Is it more of a lifestyle thing for you, that you're both involved in?
For sure. These aren't roles. This isn't work, this is our life. This is Instagram and podcasts and coaching calls. That's my life and I love it, and I love the fact that Paul wants to be part of that. He knows as well as I know, and in fact, he encourages me to be authentic on social media all the time, sometimes inappropriately. At times that, really, people do not want to see. As I'm falling asleep, maybe, or going to the bathroom.
Those are the best pictures I take.
He's the worst.
What you need to do, Paul, is get a rose gold paperclip in the image and it'll be on brand.
Do you like pink a lot more than you did?
He's a nightmare.
I'm sure we can find a filter on there.
He jokes about it, “Oh, that's a great picture of you snoring. I'm going to put that on Instagram.”
I will say, though, that Paul's Instagram is much better these days, so he's obviously picked up something from you.
He tries, he's still fairly quiet on it, but he does try.
No, like I said, it's just become who we are, and we initially … I guess, to Paul that would have been weird. It was weird for me, but now, I like it. I don't mind this, I want him to be seen a bit more, I want him to be in it a bit more, because he is so much part of my life and my business and what I do, and I'm happy about that. I'm happy for him to be seen, hence why this was a nice idea for this episode.
Nice. How do you feel about some of the experiences that you get, then, from being part of this world? Because you've not long come back from Nashville.
I know that you supported Teresa when you spoke in … Was it Greece and Cyprus in the space of a week? I was with you at Social Media Marketing World in San Diego, which, by the way, I experienced their working together on the last day before our flight. I can tell you, dear listener, how relaxing it is. I was half cursed at the time, so that might go some way to do explain it.
You've just hit on the secret there, BizPaul. We work when we're drunk, really good at it.
Going to the Kajabi Summit, or an event or, or going and seeing the Hyatt family in Nashville, is obviously very different from doing a swoop and land in Kabul or whatever.
#8 Have Your Lives Changed in Anyway?
Can you describe, maybe, what those differences are and what you've learned from maybe doing those things?
Yeah, big time. It is a totally different world, and I think like I said before, the fact that the people that I've met in our journey because of Teresa is phenomenal, and Social Media Marketing World, thousands of people there and meeting all those different people, and then Nashville. Mary Hyatt and her family, I would never have met those lovely people without Teresa, and it is a totally different world to me, sitting in an aircraft in London in not-so-nice places.
Well, it's funny, obviously Paul is military, as you said, and when I first met him, his woo-woo-ness, non-existent. Could not be far from the woo-woo-ness as Paul. He was very … I don't know, just scientific. Your engineering brain, you'll prove to me this, this, and this. Then I started getting into it and he was really sceptical and really like, “What a load of rubbish.” Then, as time's gone on, we've both grown with it together.
I love how open-minded Paul's been about it all and how, actually, he's come to me and gone, “Oh, I listen to James Wedmore's podcast and he said this, and this was really good and you should try this.” I love the fact that he's more open to these things now, and like I said, going to Mary's and being inside Mary's house, you went to the gym with her as well and did a workout. She has oils on all the time, she does stuff with doTERRA and then she meditates, and it was just heavenly, wasn't it?
It's a different way of looking at life as well.
Which is a big change for me. Life for me was just you get up and go to work, you do your job, you do it safely, you come back home safe, and that's it. You have a beer at the end of the day. Where now, I've got a totally different view of the world, really, and how to deal with mindset things. Even the word mindset, I would never use the word mindset before, and now the military is usually in the news for they look after you and make sure your mindset's good, but really …
Yeah, they've helped me in the past, but from my experiences with meeting Teresa and meeting all these different people and learning about mindset, I'm far more educated on it now, and for my own good as well, really.
Were there are many aroma therapy candles in Camp Bastion?
See now, there's definitely some smells in Camp Bastion and Kabul, but definitely not the …
Some mindset before going on patrol?
Yeah, all of those things would have helped me and did help me the latter part of my time.
Did they, actually?
You took some of what you'd learned in Teresa's world into that? That's interesting.
It helped me stay calmer than ever in some ways, instead of stressing about things and wasting energy on things that are out of your control. Yeah.
I think as well, it helped you think about retiring, so what's really interesting, and Paul is one of the most unassuming, modest men ever. He is not like, “Check me out. I'm amazing.” We have some differences.
Not yet. You don't know what you're creating.
I know, he's going to be a monster. When he does his job and stuff, he just didn't see anything of it. He just didn't see that it was such a big deal and it wasn't impressive in his head, whereas anybody who's not military is like, “Oh my goodness, you fly in and out of very scary countries and have done hundreds and hundreds of times,” and then when he was talking about leaving, I think when we first brought the conversation up, it was a very apprehensive conversation.
It was very much like, “What am I going to do? Where would I go?” Because you've done 25 years, could you imagine that? For anybody listening, I don't think there's anybody listening that's done 25 years in one job.
Not these days.
No way, and so to leave that job, it's not just a job. It's a way of life, it's your community, it's your friends, it's your everything. To leave that after 25 years, I think prior to us really getting to where we are today, he was really nervous about that and I had to say to him, “Paul, you are amazing.” The employee that they've made is phenomenal because basically he's very conscientious, he's very good at what he does, and it's like, “They're going to snap your hand off.”
Any job is going to be very lucky to have you, and he's come out and got an amazing dream job that he wants to do for a couple of years and is going to be good fun for him. He didn't have the faith initially about that, and then, having gone through everything we've gone through, met all the people we've met, and Paul really makes me laugh. Because one of the things he'll do all the time is he'll meet someone else and he'll say to me, “How do they make their money?”
“How much do you reckon they earn from that?” Because, of course, he's so inquisitive about it all, which is awesome. Yeah, I think having gone through all this, having met all these people, seeing my side of the world, gave him confidence that there was something outside the military, which I can only imagine if your life has been entirely military, that must be really difficult to do.
What about the reverse, then, of that? What do you think you can bring in from the military side of things into a business like the one that you're running now, to help there? There's obviously the process stuff, which you've spoken about, and I can imagine the discipline of the military makes it easier to … Is it a more natural fit, that, isn't it? What else do you think?
I'm trying to think, actually. I think you just [crosstalk 00:44:16]. I could actually bring some of the discipline …
Yeah, I completely forgot about bringing the discipline to … Teresa, he's swearing. You've had enough discipline in 25 years. You don't want any more. You know what I'm saying?
I knew when you asked that question, I was laughing to myself because I thought, “Oh god, this could go completely wrong.” He makes me wear the uniform. He doesn't make me wear the uniform. I wanted to make him wear the uniform, but he didn't.
I think there's been a few things that I've definitely brought in, and the fact that part of the military, I was a technician or instructor, so there was lots of elements of the instructor job that I brought to your speaking. There's a few things from that I brought into that. I'm just trying to think of other military stuff because it's so different. There wasn't a huge amount I could bring across, really, apart from getting up on time.
I was going to say he has a great work ethic, obviously. He also is one of these people that, if he knows he has to do something or if he knows he should do something, that he does it, okay? If you've ever read the book “Chimp Paradox,” have you ever read the “Chimp Paradox”?
I haven't read it, I'm aware of it.
Really good book. Basically, it says that in your head you have a human brain and a chimp brain. Well, you need to read it if you haven't read it already, or listen to it, and I basically have probably 90% chimp, i.e. it's all about … I'm a little bit hedonistic. I want everything to be amazing and fun and I'm very emotional. At times, I can be very excitable, I can be very grumpy. Then the human side of it is the very calm and controlled side, and Paul is about 90% human.
If I say I need to be up at this time because we need to do this, if it gets to that time, which is happening at the moment because we're going to the gym and we're going together while he's still around … I said that like he's dying. You're not dying. No, he's going to work, but whereas I'll be like, “Okay, we've got to get up at 5:00,” if the alarm goes off at 5:00, I might be like, “Oh, it won't hurt if we just leave it,” whereas he'd be like, “You said 5:00, we're up at 5:00, we're out,” so he's a really good at that.
He'll tell me off. If I've wasted some time at work, he'll be like, “Hang on a minute. You said you were going to do that, or did you do this?” and yesterday, you walked in and you were like, “What have you done today, then? What are you doing right now?” All right, dad. Keeping track of me.
Instagram's work in the marketing world.
#9 What Would Your Life Be Like if Marketing Didn’t Exist?
Again, I think that comes down to this almost yin and yang thing and how you closely work together, which is quite clear there's a fit. What if your business was wasn't marketing? What if you didn't do marketing? Can you imagine, if marketing just didn't exist, it was outlawed or something, what would you guys do?
I don't know. Honestly, someone asked me the other day whether I always wanted to do marketing and I said that … I didn't answer it. I just said I started a business degree and specialised in marketing within the first six months, and I loved it and I always have done. I don't know. Paul always comes up with crazy business ideas, which is funny because he's not the entrepreneur. Not that I would say I'm an entrepreneur, either.
Technically I probably am, but I don't sometimes feel like it. Whereas Paul will be like, “Oh, we could make this product, and someone needs to make a product that will do this and make a product that does this.” I don't know what we'd do. We'd become professional drinkers.
Very good at that.
Really good at that. I don't know.
I don't know.
What could you do, Paul? I think we should be a double act comedian. We don't sound very funny today, but we both think we're hilarious. I'm obviously funnier than Paul.
That's what she says.
Yeah, I am.
I must say, just as an observation, I think you're very complementary because I know you personally, but what you can't see necessarily on the podcast is the setup that we've got here. I have a barrier in between you two and a desk and you are facing me, but you are genuinely looking at each other and there's a lot that can be said, I think, between you without saying anything, and I think that's perhaps a good sign that things work. Obviously, you've got to stick with marketing because you can't think of anything else to do.
I don't, honestly, think there's anything.
Honestly, I think you're quite a good designer.
I've got an all right eye. My daughter's bedroom is beautiful. I should put that on my Insta story highlights, it's not on there. I'm going to put it on the highlights under home life.
There could be interior design.
Interior design could be a good one.
My voice, I'm always told I've got a good voice.
You have got a good voice. It's very calming.
I have joked that there are certain lines that people can call. Apparently, I'm very good when people think my voice is very good for that.
When I was a student … This is a bit of an anecdote, I'm afraid. Sorry to hijack your podcast.
When I was a student, one of my housemates did that to earn some cash and she would be earning her clothes whilst … Yeah.
Paul would be happy, because I don't iron. Even then, I'd start ironing. [crosstalk 00:49:27]
Okay, so then we're back onto supportive roles, because it's not just about work. It's about life as well, and I do know that you clean as well.
#10 Would You Have Done Anything Differently Over the Last 5 Years?
You're very good at cleaning fabric flowers, I believe, as well, which is something that I am definitely not. That again, it's about who's got the responsibility for what and making that work in that team. I want to ask you, if you looked back at the last 5 years or so, would you do anything differently to what you've done? Are there any lessons to be learned that maybe you can share?
If I could have learned some of the mindset stuff before now and got some of the connections we've got now before now, that would have been great, because I think in the early days there are a few mistakes I made where I went and got an office at one place, then I got an office somewhere else and all because I felt like I needed an office and I wasted time doing that, and then I wasted time doing some of the wrong things.
Because I guess I didn't have the confidence and Paul didn't have the confidence to say, “That's probably not for you or that's not right for you,” because, obviously, at the time we were all still learning, but I think in the early days it was tricky because you're getting together. Paul had been through a not very nice breakup. I was a few years out of mine, so I was in a much calmer place, but the business was new, things were stressful, and in the first few years it was hard work. Obviously, the kids.
We moved houses three times.
Life was pretty … I was going to say horrendous. It wasn't horrendous because we were together and we did great.
We had to deal with that as well.
Jeez, man. I wouldn't want to go through that again.
If you look at the stuff that we went through … Well, we should have so much more capacity to do so much now, in some ways.
In a way, isn't that part of the learning? You know what I mean? How would you know the value of the more woo-woo stuff without having experienced something before, and how would you know whether an office was right for you if you didn't experience going in an office? I guess there are shortcuts to be made, and I think one of the great things about a podcast like this, when you have your guests on and you share your own experience, is that you're sharing your experience for someone else and for them to make up their mind as to what they want to do, and everyone needs an influence.
#11 What Are Some of Your Biggest Mistakes?
I do think that you're a big influence on a lot of people, actually, but I think you probably have to go through some of those things.
Were there any clangers, things that you went, “That was really terrible, don't ever do this”?
I don't know. I did have someone want to go into business with me and I spent a bit of time looking into that, and then I, luckily, said no and then fell out with them, and that wasn't a very nice period of time because they didn't like the fact that I said no. I surrounded myself with the wrong people to begin with, didn't I?
Yeah. Looking back, that was a tough time, wasn't it?
Again, part of the journey.
What about working together? Because, again, there are probably people listening to this podcast whose partner is involved or they're thinking of making a life change to allow that to happen. Are there any nuggets of advice that you can give people as to what would make it more effective or what would make it work?
I think if you are going to … I don't know, it's difficult, isn't it? Because it's amazing how much time Teresa takes out of our life as such to work. It's a huge commitment, what she does, and for me, I think you've got to be patient with it and be able to support, but then when I'm working with you, again, it's having that patience to deal with … Because I've messed up a few times.
Just ignore that. I wasn't going to mention it because I wouldn't want to embarrass.
It wasn't that bad, and I think this is really interesting for both of us, actually. Because basically Paul was doing something in a system that we had not long learned and we both learned it at the same time.
Had to learn it really quickly and, basically, he sent something out that went out immediately and shouldn't have gone out immediately. I don't like getting things wrong. I am not good at making mistakes. I don't like things like that going wrong, but what was really interesting is my reaction, I think, surprised both of us. Because he would have thought my reaction would be to rip his head off because I would have been like, “What the actual hell have you done here?”
Actually, he's like me, that he was so angry with himself and he was so like, “What have I done?” that there was no point in me saying anything to him, and suddenly I went into the fixer role, which is weird because that's his role. He's the fixer, I'm normally the panicker, and I went into fixer role and was like, “It's fine. I'm going to do this,” and I took it on the chin, as I have to as the boss.
It is a bit weird when it's your husband that's made the mistake, but you have to, you are the boss of the business. If something goes wrong, whether you made it or someone else does, you've got to take it on the chin, so I took it exactly on the chin and apologised and dealt with the fallout from it. Paul and I learned. He, actually, for a little while went, “I don't want to do that again, I'm not touching this.”
It took him a little while to get his confidence back and it's like, “Jeez, I've been in this game for 15 years.” I had a flyer printed once for a business that said … What did it say? “Comerical vehicles” instead of “commercial vehicles.” Literally, the title said comericals, we had all of them printed and they arrived and it was the receptionist that went, “Why does that say comericals?” It's like, “Holy moly,” but anyway, so for me, no one died.
That's really interesting, because again, he works in a job that is way more serious, but he was so concerned by it. I think what he just said there was really important, about he has to be very patient with me and that is interesting. If he wasn't as understanding about how much I work, that would be really difficult because, not only do I work a lot, which can be tough, I put a lot on him in terms of the other roles.
I'm going to sound like a horrendous person, but literally when Paul's around, mind you, you have to remember, he's not always around, he does all the cleaning, he does all the dog stuff, he does all the shopping, he does the ironing, he does the washing, he does everything. Now, I cook more only out of my own eating pleasure because I want to cook things I want to eat, and not that Paul's a terrible cook, because he's not, but Paul will cook out of necessity, i.e. “We need to eat food for fuel, it doesn't matter what it is.”
Whereas I'm much more like, “Oh, what do I want to eat tonight? I'm going to have this,” so I do do a bit of cooking. He's my sous chef, I boss him around in the kitchen as well, and I make a horrendous mess.
I've never seen anything like it. It's amazing. Just doing probably some soup or something, it's up the walls.
You seem to accept it and-
Yeah, just mop it up.
Just placidly do it, which is a good symbol of how this relationship is-
Yeah, it's very good.
Now, I know, Teresa, you have a vision board.
I'm sure you're on it, Paul.
I hope so.
#12 What Does the Future Hold?
As the future. I'm just wondering, what does the future hold?
My goals at the moment, as I've said, to pay Paul's salary. Now, what's interesting is he's going to go into a new job that he likes, that he wants to do, he's very excited about. He's very honoured that he's got a job doing what he's going to be doing, and I want him to do that for his own career and his own passion, but I do want to get to a point that, if and when he wants to finish that, I can just pay his salary and not have him have to do anything.
Obviously, he will do things, but I don't want him to have to, so that's one of the goals. In all honesty, the ultimate goal is we'd like to move to the States.
Yeah, in time.
We'll sell the kids. No, we won't sell them; they will pay us for it. I'm joking. No, so it's not going to be yet because, obviously, my daughter is 10. My ex-husband would go mad if I tried to move her and/or leave her, so it's in my five to 10 year goal, but we'd love to move to the States. We'd love to be over there, have that life, and travel. We love travelling. I never travelled at all until I met Paul, and then, obviously, this guy has been to more countries-
Done a little bit of travelling.
Tiny weeny bit of travelling, literally most of the world. We would like to do more of that.
Yeah, definitely. We build memories on that.
Yeah, we do.
We just laugh all the time when we're away, don't we?
Yeah, mainly because we're drunk, also. We're not drunk all the time.
Your future is sharing both the business and those experiences together.
Yeah, for sure. Rachel Hollis, her husband, they are a partnership in the business and he is very much as active in the business as she is, although it started as her business. Now, I don't see it becoming the Teresa and Paul show, because I don't know that you would want it to be like that.
You definitely don't want it to be like that.
I like the limelight. No, I'm joking. “It's my business, Paul.” I don't see it going as that partnership, but I do see it as he would be around every time I speak, he'll help me run the stuff in the background. I'd really like him to become a videographer and photographer, because if he could come around with me and take amazing photos and videos, that would save me a fortune. Maybe that's what's on the cards. You need to do night school.
This is obviously a joint venture now. You've been very much front-of-house and it's your name on the brand. It really does feel, and it seems, just from talking to you today and knowing you as I do, that this is about the partnership. It seems to work, and I think when you're talking about the future, it all seems really positive.
I think that's a lovely note to end it on. Thank you so much for inviting me to be part of this and to ask you questions about you guys and learning about the dynamics that you have in the business. I wish you all the best for your glorious future together, particularly your part of the business, Paul.
Thank you so much, BizPaul.
Thank you, BizPaul.
I guess that wasn't as bad as I thought. I was really nervous about handing over my show to someone else. I hope you enjoyed. It is a bit different, so if this is the first episode you're listening to, then I can assure you we'll get back to normal next week. Thank you so much for listening to this episode. Also, don't forget that because I've hit 100 episodes, I'm running a competition over on my Instagram.
If you're listening to this at the point it's come out, I think you've got about a week to enter that competition. I can't wait to hear from you guys and see what you've thought of it. Okay guys, I will leave you to it. Have a wonderful week and I will see you soon.