In this episode I interviewed Nicki Krawczyk, CEO and founder of Nicki Kay Media. We discuss alternative launch strategies beyond live launches and evergreen methods. Nicki introduces her ‘Circuit Sales System’ which offers a hybrid, automated approach that nurtures and sells to potential clients simultaneously, for maximum effectiveness. We dive deep into how this system works, including the importance of the initial activation energy, breaking the cycle of prevalent bad advice, and constantly refining the sales process. Nicki also discusses the use of ads, appropriate price points, and the technology needed to implement such a system.
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Transcript
Teresa:
When it comes to launching, we know that there’s two main ways to launch live launching or evergreen. And you might be one of those people that doesn’t like live launching, that the idea of doing a live launch is exhausting. It takes a lot of work and it does take a lot of work. But also you might know if you’ve done evergreen, it’s not as easy as maybe it’s made out to be.
So what if there was something in between, could you find a way of launching that wasn’t evergreen and wasn’t live launching, and what if that way could massively increase your profits like it has done for my guest today. Today, I’m interviewing Nicki Krawczyk and I think you’re going to really enjoy what she’s got to say.
I made so many notes. Get ready.
Hello and really warm welcome to this week’s episode of Your Dream Business. My name is Teresa Heath-Wareing and as always, I am your host. I hope you are doing really, really well. Now we’ve been doing a lot of talking around webinars and launching and I’ve got some stuff going on at the moment or coming up where I’m talking more about webinars.
So the launching stuff is obviously something I really enjoy talking about and I’m absolutely geek if I’m honest, but actually. If you have an online product, if you have [00:02:00] a course, a membership, a group coaching program, then you need to know about launching. This is how people make their money. They do launches of their products.
And like I said, I’ve done lots of content recently around the importance of launching and why we need it and why we can’t just go, we’ve got this thing to sell and help people buy it. I mean, I really wish that was the case, but it’s not as easy as that unfortunately. Today’s guest, Nicki Krawczyk. Gave me so much to think about because she is talking about a way of launching that isn’t live launching.
And when I say live launching, I mean, you turn up live to do a webinar, you turn up live to do a challenge or a bootcamp and isn’t evergreen. And by evergreen, we mean that it goes on autopilot. You set it and forget it. And you get loads of money coming in, which If that was as easy as that, believe me, we would all be doing it.
It takes a bit of work. And I think that’s what disappoints people because they think I’m just going to set up a course and sell it evergreen and it doesn’t quite go with the way they think. So what if there was something in between? Which obviously I was fascinated [00:03:00] to hear about because I know those two other launch methods really, really well.
And I happen to love them as well. So I made so many notes on this episode. I was proper picking her brain. And when she was saying about a strategy, I was like, but how, and what would you do there? And how do you do that? And I always love it. And hopefully you love it too, when there’s an episode like that, because when I’m learning as much as you are, it really helps me ask all the right questions.
It was awesome. She also talks about the fact of nurturing while selling, which Again, I like it when people sometimes give me differing opinions to ones that I have. I would often talk about not trying to marry someone on the first date and warming them up and nurturing them a bit and she was like, no, you know, I just go straight to sell.
So again, it was Such a fascinating conversation. So let me just tell you a bit about Nicki. Nicki is the CEO and founder of Nicki K Media, and she loves to challenge conventional norms of [00:04:00] live launching and traditional evergreen strategies. Her proven methodologies provide course creators with a predictable path to success, freeing them from stress and limitations of outdated approaches.
Like I said, it was really fascinating having this conversation with her. In addition to her revolutionary, hard word to say, circuit sales system course, she also offers additional programs through her filthy rich writer and fired up freelance brands for would be copywriters and freelancers alike. It was such a great conversation and I am so excited to share this with you.
I think you’re going to get so much from this. So without further ado, here is Nicki. Nicki, welcome to the podcast.
Nicki:
Hello, Teresa. Thank you for having me.
Teresa:
My pleasure. Now I am very excited about this episode because we are going to talk things that I geek out on, on a regular basis. Like to say I like launching is like, I watch other people’s stuff with intrigue, like if someone’s going through a launch, I screenshot everything [00:05:00] and I’m like, Oh, see what they did here.
And also if this goes to here, and this is the stuff that like, I love this stuff. So when I went and did my research on you and you were talking about launching that wasn’t live launching and wasn’t necessarily evergreen, but you 40 Xed, four zero Xed. your business, like, I need to know this. I need to know what this wizardry is.
I need you to tell me every detail and we need to get into it. So let’s start by talking about why you’re not keen on live launching and what you’re doing instead.
Nicki:
So, you and I are similar in that I watch other people’s live launches too, except I spend that time going. Oh, I’m so glad I’m not doing this.
Oh my God. That looks like so much work. Oh my gosh. It’s it. You and I were talking before we got started here and, or before we started recording and, and for, for people who love live launching and if it works for you. Awesome. Stick with it. Like [00:06:00] it don’t break anything, but that’s working stick with it because it absolutely can work.
The, the people who, who are in my camp tend to be the people who are like, Oh God, I don’t want to do that. That looks like so much work and so much effort. And I just, I don’t get me wrong. This is business, right? Like you have to put in effort in business. I’m not going to come on here and be like, no, no, no, just follow my system.
It’s super easy. There’s work to it, but I prefer to, I’ve heard of front load a lot of the work I prefer to do work behind the scenes so that I can set something up so that it can do the selling. For me, without having me having to be present for it, without me having to be on live and and giving my, my heart and soul to everybody and then passing out for, for a month afterwards because it took so much out of me.
So there’s room for all of us.
Teresa:
And I think you’re right. And I want, that is one thing I never hide the fact of that doing launches is hard. There’s a lot of moving pieces. It takes a lot of energy. And we’ve all done a launch where. And probably more than I care to think about, where you put your heart and soul, and I do, right, I love what I do, and I literally, like, give, give, give, and then it’s tumbleweed, and you’re like, I have just literally busted my backside, and it’s not worked out.
So, one of the things that I see all the time, and, And I’ll give you my thoughts on this, but is evergreen, like everyone wants evergreen. Everyone wants to literally just set up the thing, do the thing, done, brilliant, rolling the money. Right. And one thing I advise. [00:08:00] which I’m, I love people challenging me on, on the podcast and giving me new thoughts and ways of thinking.
One of the things I advise is before they ever do an evergreen is that they do some live stuff to see what their customers like and what is working, what isn’t working, what is happening, like what are they, what sales things they really being attracted to before they hit the evergreen thing, but still evergreen is not as easy and as simple as that.
So when I looked at your stuff and I was like, so this isn’t kind of evergreen and this isn’t live. So first off, I don’t understand what it is. And secondly, how could it make me that all that money? I’d like it tomorrow. Thank you.
Nicki:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, okay. Great.
Sign you up. Yeah. It’s, it’s, as you know, the, the problem with evergreen, they’re really like two kinds of evergreens, right? Now we’ve covered live launching. Great. But there are two kinds of evergreen. Number one is the, oh my gosh, I’m so sick of live launching. I’m just going to put my, put my course up on my website and people can buy it whenever they want to.
It’s so, it’s so supportive. [00:09:00] People can. The problem is, is that’s not how human beings work. We only take, or not only, but, but the vast majority of time, we only take action when we have some kind of deadline. It’s, it’s, it’s just part of how we are created, part of the way our brains operate. So when you take your course and you put it up on your website and you let people buy it, Whenever they want to, they don’t.
You may, you will probably see a sale trickle in here or there, but it’s not going to be enough to, to support your business on, especially if you’re moving from live launching to this evergreen live on your site.
It’s just people don’t take action when they could do it. I have right now, I have at least two or three, I mean like 30 tabs open, but I have at least two or three tabs open for courses that are quote unquote evergreen, like I’d like to do that at some point, but you know, it’s probably going to happen is my computer is going to force me to [00:10:00] shut it down and I’m going to lose those tabs and they will have lost my, my money.
Because I’m not forced to make a decision at some point. So this is one type of evergreen that doesn’t work. The other type of evergreen is, is the evergreen funnel. Yes. That’s where we’re saying, all right, no, no, no, we’re solving that problem. I get it. Having it up on your website, that, that doesn’t work.
So what we’re going to do is we’re going to create a funnel and we’re going to give them the one time opportunity to purchase. And it’s going to be so great. And you’re going to be set it up and it’s, and it’s automated.
Teresa (2):
Yeah.
Nicki:
The problem is, well actually there are a couple of problems with it. Number one is, is the method of doing this is generally very poor.
There is usually some, some unnecessary, we can talk about nurturing, but some, a lot of unnecessary nurturing first. Nurturing burns up that activation energy when people first get on your list. When people first get on your list, they are the most excited that they will ever be and the most motivated they will ever be.
So a lot of people make the mistake of burning up that, that [00:11:00] activation energy with nurturing, and then they try to sell and then it doesn’t work. Okay. The method of selling is usually going back to that like, we’re gonna teach, teach, teach, just teach. Give away your best stuff and. Unfortunately, the problem is, is learning while very important, but learning is an energy draining activity.
So when we take people who are excited and we get them on the list, then we go here, learn a bunch of stuff. They go, this is why we see if we do those multi day challenges, we see a lot of people show up that first day and then it dwindles and then it decreases. And the last day you go, I thought it was going to sell to 600 people.
I’m only selling to 50 people or whatever that is. So that’s part of the problem is that, that. Trying to, trying to teach people and, and conveying what we have to offer in a way that drains their energy. And then the third part of that is the way that funnels work. They’re one way, right? So we get people in the top, we send them through, and if they don’t purchase, we go, oh, I got down.
That didn’t work. We [00:12:00] throw them on our list and they languish there. I mean, maybe we send them our, our weekly emails or whatever, but we put them on our list, they language. Then we go, oh, I guess I have to live launch. I guess that didn’t work. The thing is, is that first of all, you have to, you have to improve the system at the beginning to sell to people.
Mm-Hmm. . But then after that, you know, if someone is on your list, there is, there’s. Always a chance that they will purchase. There was something in them at some point that got them interested in your main offer, which means that unless they unsubscribe or unless they’re, you know, they’re bots, there’s always the opportunity for them to purchase just for whatever reason.
Maybe it’s the messaging, but maybe it was genuinely the timing, or maybe they just genuinely don’t have the money. Cause that does happen. There’s always the opportunity to purchase again. If instead of sending them through a mediocre quote unquote evergreen funnel and then letting languish on your list, what if instead, and here’s where we’re getting into where the circumstance is a little bit different, what if [00:13:00] instead we take that prime activation energy, that moment when they’re most excited, and instead of being like, here’s an e book, we give them the solution to the problem they have at the same time that we nurture them.
So we nurture them and we sell to them at the same time. In a way that establishes your authority and sets you apart from the rest of your competition. But then all of a sudden gives them the best offer, genuinely the best offer. And then gives them, if they don’t purchase the best offer, they need a little bit more time, fine.
They can purchase it at your regular price. But if for some reason they still weren’t ready to purchase then, We don’t give up on that. We build it so that they will automatically have additional opportunities to purchase in the future, but it’s all automated. It’s part of why it’s a circuit because it’s a closed circuit.
The only way people exit is if they are, if they purchase or if they unsubscribe, and certainly you’re going to give them all kinds of value as well, as they’re on your list. You’re not, you’re [00:14:00] not just going to sell to them, but you, you. Are selling to them in the most effective way and you’re doing it all automated.
So you get that you get that excitement of the live launch at the at the beginning and you can Recreate that excitement of the live launch throughout the circuit, but you can do it without having to be live
Teresa:
Okay. All the questions. Right. Done. Brilliant. I know what to do. Okay. So first question, how, when you say you nurture and sell, so let’s imagine, okay, how are you, how am I getting on your list first?
Am I using traditional lead magnet? So, There’s a download. It’s going to change my life. I opt in.
How do you then nurture me and sell to me at the same time?
Nicki:
Yeah, you are going to opt in for a free workshop. Now, it’s a free automated workshop. It’s an on demand workshop. So you don’t, I’m not going to force you to rearrange your schedule to [00:15:00] watch something because we, I mean, how many times have you signed up for something and been like, I totally want to see that at six o’clock tonight.
And then as the day goes on, you go, I cannot make this happen. And unfortunately with live stuff like that, we end up, we, we, whether we pay money or we pay time and energy, we’re paying to get people on our list. And when we were like, Oh, if you can’t be there, you don’t get. You don’t get a replay we’re, we’re penalizing people for having lives, but anyway, so you’re going to give them a, a video workshop and it’s on demand, but at the same time, you’re going to give them a, a specified period of time in which to watch it.
So it’s usually going to be between three and five days, depending on your price point. And in this period, you are going to give them your, your best offer and your best price. You’re going to send multiple emails to encourage them to watch it. You’re going to also send additional information, you know, maybe some client stories, all that kind of thing to get them into this, to get them into this workshop, but also you’re supplementing it with emails.
Now, [00:16:00] what happens in this workshop instead of now from the outside, it could probably be like, well, there are three pillars. You’re just teaching me the way that, the way that, you know, the average webinar does but that’s not what it is at all, actually. It’s the instead of like we’re saying the the problem with teaching is that it.
It drains that energy when people have to learn. I mean, it’s like, when you think back to, you think back to high school or college, like you are not excited to go to class. There’s just not like, yeah, get me in another account. Exactly. Like you’re excited to have the information, but you’re not excited to actually receive the info.
And obviously there’s a place for learning, but that place for learning is after they are on, after they purchase and we could support them in that. We could be like, okay, great. Log back in. We’re going to, you know.
Teresa (2):
Yeah.
Nicki:
On top of the fact, there are kinds of problems with this idea of like, I’m going to give people a little win and then they’ll purchase the big win.
It’s not generally how our brains operate. When we, when we purchase a little win, when we make a purchase, our brains close a loop. So if we give them, [00:17:00] if we give them a little win or if we give them a little purchase, something along those lines, they close the loop. They go, okay, all right, I know this. If they have a little win, they go, they either go, Ooh, okay, I got to work on this.
And then yeah. Okay, great. Maybe I’ll come back for that. That bigger thing later. Okay. Or they go, Oh, I have this little thing. I think because now I understand this, I can understand your whole system. So now I don’t need your whole thing. So anyway, so instead of, instead of teaching to them, what we’re doing is we are giving them breakthroughs because here’s the thing.
Everybody that comes onto your list, they, they all have a similar problem or similar want, similar desire, right? And they all have in some way or another tried to solve that. Maybe they have taken other courses. Maybe they have listened to podcasts, read articles, read books, whatever. They’ve all tried to solve that problem.
And they’re on your list, so they haven’t solved that problem, right? You, you, you don’t get onto a list about getting healthy and, and decreasing your diabetes. I don’t know why [00:18:00] I used diabetes as an example, because I don’t know anything about diabetes. Not a single thing about it.
Teresa:
Hey, it’s where our brain goes.
It’s very odd.
Nicki:
That’s, that’s, but so the, they have all tried to solve this problem in some way, shape or form, and they haven’t been able to, which is why they are on your list. So. What you’re going to start out with is calling out the fact that the stuff that they are hearing and they are trying the very prevalent bad advice, because we all know there’s prevalent bad advice in every single industry.
It’s the stuff that when, when, and this, I’m saying this to all of us, it’s the stuff that when our clients come to us and say, but I heard this, you go, Oh my God, I can’t believe people are still saying this. There’s a lot of bad advice out there. So when you come in, when they come in and they watch your masterclass and you say, okay, look, I know that you’ve heard this and I, and I’m sure you probably even tried this, but it hasn’t worked and here’s why it hasn’t worked.
And then from there you say, Here’s [00:19:00] what does work, and here’s why it works. And it’s a very simple paradigm, but obviously there are additional things you’re going to build on to it to support that. But when you show them why what everybody else is saying, when you show them why it doesn’t work, first of all, it, it validates their experience, right?
They were thinking something, oh, thumbs up. They were thinking that’s right. Thanks. Thanks, Apple. They were thinking that something was wrong with them. Are they thinking that maybe you can’t trust anybody or there’s something. You are validating the fact that They, that they could not have been successful with it.
And that also gives them back some, some hope and some, some faith in, in possibility. And also when you explain why it doesn’t work, it, it opens their eyes. They go, Oh, okay. No, I get it. And they get why it couldn’t work. So then when you explain what does work and why it works, then you also have given them hope and you’ve established yourself as an, [00:20:00] an expert.
And when you do that, I should say to you, you’re giving them the what and the why, you’re not giving them the how. The how is what they, the how is what they pay us for, how is what they buy. But when you give them a couple of times this, like, I know you heard this, doesn’t work, I know, and this is what does work, and here’s why, when you do that a couple of times over, they become more and more invested in learning from you.
They trust you more. They believe in you. They know that you’re an expert and they get more and more excited about the solution that you can then deliver to them. And that’s, that’s, so that’s kind of the, the, the very bare bones elements of what happens in that video.
And then also what happens throughout the, the entire circuit.
Teresa:
That’s great. That’s, that I’ve made loads of notes and that is really super interesting. So how long do they stay in that circuit? And then what does putting them in another circuit look like? And. What does [00:21:00] that mean for broadcast emails?
Because I send two emails a week, just normal broadcast ones. Like, what happens with that?
Nicki:
Yeah. So they stay in the circuit effectively forever until they purchase or until they unsubscribe because it will all be automated. They, if they don’t purchase during that initial period, then you’re going to pause the sales emails for any, whatever amount of time you want to do, you know, 90 days, whatever.
And then after 90 days, then you restart up another, another sales period. And again, it’s all automated. And then if they don’t purchase then pause and then you’re giving them additional, you’re giving them unlimited opportunities to purchase, not really unlimited, but at a certain point, you’re probably going to want to, you know, but I will actually tell you quite honestly, when I was, when I was doing this on my own, the, the circuit came from a, a system that I built to sell our, our first brand, which is a professional copywriting training business.
We teach people to become professional copywriters. That’s my [00:22:00] background. We’re actually the, the largest, the largest online all in one copywriting training program. I’m proud of that because I’ve been able to sell people so effectively. Yes. I created the system. And then a couple of years ago I started selling the system to other course creators who wanted to know.
So the, the, when I was doing it on my own, cause as I started the business, it was kind of mostly just me. We didn’t really bother to not send out the broadcast email to everybody. If you were in a sales sequence, you got the broadcast emails. If you weren’t in the sales sequence, you got the broadcast email.
Did it hurt me? Nah, it didn’t. However, now that I have more people on my team, a little bit more sophisticated and people going, Oh, what if we, the way we do it now is if you are in an active sales sequence, we just, you don’t get the broadcast emails for that week. But otherwise, I mean, so it’s, it’s automated.
It’s all based on tags. If you have the tag that you’re in a sales sequence, then you just get suppressed from the broadcast emails that week. Yeah, but everybody [00:23:00] would get them and, and in the in between time, if they haven’t purchased in your, in your first sales sequence, you’re like, they’re still getting that key information.
Teresa:
The second sequence, the second circuit that they get put in. So let’s say you have bought them on board, like they came on board, they’ve gone through it. They didn’t buy, they’ve gone into a regular broadcast emails. You’re then, you’ve got your decision of like 60 days, 90 days, whatever it is. Are you putting them back into exactly the same sequence or is it for the same product, for a different product?
What’s the deal?
Nicki:
Good questions.
Teresa:
Honestly, I am like, my brain is like, tell me all of this now.
Nicki:
I know. Well, and I keep adding more things to the course. Because the fun thing is, is that as we’re testing out new things on the other brands, I can go, Ooh, this is working. And I add it into the the, the CSS, the circuit sales system course.
So it’s, it’s kind of, we have a testing lab over here and then we get to tell our students like, Ooh, try this. So the, I think of the, or not, I think the [00:24:00] whole thing is the circuit and then we have active sales sequences within the circuit, so yes, so it could be the, for the same item. It’s usually that’s where we start people out because we have them, we have them create a circuit for their main offer, like the offer that you want everybody to purchase so that it could be, and it could be the same type of offer, or they could test out maybe offering a different type of payment plan to make it a little bit more exciting.
Maybe in your first sales sequence, you only offered a one, a one part payment and a three part payment. Maybe in that second one, you test out doing a six part payment or something like that. But so you can change it up a little bit and really you could even change it.
I don’t want to get too into the weeds, but then you have options. But also on top of that, within your circuit, you can automate your, you can automate downsells. You can automate upsells. If people don’t purchase this course, you’re made off. If they don’t purchase, you’re main offer and you give them the best opportunity.
But for some reason, again, maybe it’s just, maybe [00:25:00] it’s not where they are in their, in their journey. Not sounding like I’m a bachelor But in their customer journey or the price wasn’t right for them or whatever. You can now give them an opportunity, and automate a downsell. But within the downsell you could also automate an opportunity to sell them back up into your main offer. Whether right away or whether later on.
Once you have the basic structure of your circuit, your selling, your main offer then you can start to get really creative and test out additional elements, test out additional offers, test out one of the things that we’ve been talking about a lot lately is the, the idea of, of meeting people where they are.
Cause we know the market is the consumer core consumers. I mean, and I include myself and that include us and that being that I still consume things a lot of things. Yeah, self to self, but this idea of meeting people where they are because consumers, they’re spending in really weird ways right now. But the thing is, is that it’s not like, it’s not like money has disappeared, right?
There is still money out there and consumers even still have money. They’re just spending it in different ways. And the, what we’ve been talking about lately in or something I’ve recently added to the program is the E W B S framework. [00:26:00] And what it really stands for is that everybody will buy something that doesn’t necessarily mean that everybody’s going to buy something from you, but.
What can you add to your circuit and there, you know, there’s a, a three part framework of things that you can add to your circuit if they’re not, if you, if you have built your circuit and you put together your main offer and you’ve done it in the best way that you possibly can and in your ideal way, like, Oh, one part of three part, that’s what I want.
If they’re not purchasing, you know, right now it could be the economy. It could be, you know, whatever. It could be the people who are on your list. What other ways can you give them either, either, different types of payments, different types, different variations on your offer if you have a, if you have a course, could you offer membership access to a cancelable membership access?
Could, if you, can you offer additional smaller programs? Can you take elements of your program and, and add, and, Offer smaller elements that again, you can try to re upsell [00:27:00] if you want to. Can you add in, can you add in affiliate offers? But putting all of this in there so that it’s automated, so there’s once it’s built in, it just, you do it once you get, and everybody just, all you have to focus on is getting people into your circuit.
But the more that you add in those elements, the more that you can also then start to recoup the cost of getting people on your list. I mean, certainly you want to recoup that and much more so with selling your main offer, but especially in, in a, a, an economy like it is right now, where it’s just super weird, just a super weird economy.
What can you do to add in additional elements to increase your, increase the, the revenues coming in, but also recoup some of the costs of getting people in there to begin with.
Teresa:
Okay. So, so much fun. Two more questions. Yes. First off.
Nicki:
I could talk for hours if you will not cut me off.
Teresa:
Honestly, I’m not even kidding. What system are you using to manage this?
Is this [00:28:00] the system that you sell through your program? Or is this like, you show people how to use it in their email system? Like how are you managing it?
Nicki:
You mean software? Yeah. Yes. I have not yet found a software that this doesn’t work with. You know, we’ll, we’ll often get people saying, oh, can I, I’m, I’m just on Kajabi, can I do this?
Yeah. I’m like, yeah, absolutely. Or I’m as long as you have, as long as you have a landing page software, because you’re gonna need to build some landing pages as long as you have email software, and as long as that email software can do automations and just some, some basic lo logic, like if I tag them as this, I can not send them this.
As long as there’s some basic logic to it, which I think most of them now do. I was just talking to a student.
Teresa (2):
Yeah, absolutely.
Nicki:
Yeah, right. I was talking to a student who said, I’m, I’m on MailChimp. Is this going to be possible? I thought, I have not looked at MailChimp in a lot of years, but I think that they have gotten to the point where you can do all that.
So landing page software, email software, I mean, payment software, you need to be able to take your payments. And the only thing that we, the only thing that we will tell people that they, that we strongly [00:29:00] recommend that they add or a part of the system is deadline funnel. We haven’t, I know there are additional deadline options, deadline software options.
We haven’t tested them because we’ve been so happy with Deadline Funnel. But for most, I actually don’t think I’ve come across a student yet who’s been like, I can’t do this with my system. All that they have to do is add on Deadline Funnel on top of it and Deadline Funnel plays nicely with all of the softwares.
Teresa:
Amazing. And then. Do you run ads to your workshop? Is that how you’re getting people in at the top of the funnel?
Nicki:
Yes, you absolutely can. You don’t have to. It’s kind of like with, with any sales, right? You can, if you, we, we know there’s some business owners who are like, Oh, I’m freaked out by ads. Maybe they had a bad experience.
Maybe they tried it. Somebody burned through their money, or maybe they burned through their money. So you absolutely can’t and should, when you first start your circuit, you should start with, Organic because you want that proof of concept, right? You’re going to spend a lot of time working on it in the system.
We take everybody through it [00:30:00] step by step, exactly how to build it. We have a Facebook group and in the Facebook group, I have copywriters in there that I have trained that are giving feedback on the messaging that our students are working on their Monday through Friday. They’re in there giving that feedback.
So we’re taking you through it step by step, but at the same time, I don’t want you to go out and start throwing money at it. Mainly because what happens is when you run it through organic and you get, you’re getting a good conversion rate, you’re like, all right, this is good. Okay. This is, this is working.
You have that proof of concept because the organic people, the people who are, who found you right there, they are, they’re your correct audience because they found you or a message that you put out there resonated with them. It’s the right audience. What can happen? And I know that you have seen this Teresa is.
You can go out and start running ads, and if you get the audience wrong, or if you get the messaging in the ads wrong, if you get something, if you get something wrong in there, [00:31:00] what it will look like is, Oh my gosh, I spent all this money and nobody’s purchasing. And it will look like, or maybe it won’t look like, but I think the people immediately go, Oh my gosh, I have to fix the circuit.
I have to change the circuit.
Teresa:
It’s wrong. Yeah.
Nicki:
Yes, exactly. So we want to make sure that we first have that proof of concept with organic traffic and then we can put ads on top of it so that you’re going, no, no, no. I know that this works. We need to figure out the ads because there’s so many moving pieces.
I, I love ads. I used to run ads ourselves. We had, I have a fantastic Ads myself. You know, I have a fantastic brand. I’ve worked with agencies. We have a fantastic person on our team. So I do think that if a business wants to scale from the multiple six figures into seven figures and above, mm-Hmm. , I will be honest with you, I don’t know how to do that without ads, or at least maybe I don’t have the, the energy, the mental capacity to even like, figure out how to do that without ads.
Yeah. but. [00:32:00] You can, you absolutely can and should get started with just organic. And if you, if you’re happy with, you know, multiple six figures up into halfway through six figures is a weird way of saying or halfway through. Anyway, I’m not going to dig too deep into that.
Teresa (2):
I know what you mean.
Nicki:
Yeah. Exactly. Everyone’s listening is going, we don’t know. We have no idea what she’s talking about.
Teresa (2):
You don’t need to worry about it. Don’t worry about it. Numbers. We’re just talking numbers.
Nicki:
Yeah. We’re just, yeah. People are scribbling this down going, what is, anyway.
Teresa:
What’s halfway?
Nicki:
What is halfway through?
What’s she talking about? But so you could really run this with just organic if you wanted to. But if you do want to scale to that point, you want your business to get bigger and bigger, I think ads is the just the most effective way I’ve found to do it.
Teresa:
Awesome. Okay, one final quick question.
Nicki:
Just one?
Teresa (2):
Because I’ve got to stop myself.
Nicki:
We have all day, let’s chat.
Teresa:
It’s like, this is a three hour podcast. So, what is your typical, because this is the one thing I find all the time, right? [00:33:00] Everyone has this very odd, inflated view of what they should be expecting. So they will come to me and go, I only got like, well, they won’t come to me with a percentage.
They’ll come to me and go, I only got three customers. And then I’ll go, okay, how many people came to your thing?
Nicki:
Out of 10!
Teresa:
Yeah, exactly. Right. And I’m like, actually, that’s really good. So what kind of percentage do you see so that people, when they are thinking about using something like this or doing something they’re like, oh, okay.
So I’m not crazy. And this is quite right.
Nicki:
Yeah, exactly. Thank you for asking that. So to set expectations, like one to 2 percent is kind of industry standard for like anything, right? That’s just, we, we do have students, I feel like I should anchor with the higher number, right? We do have students reporting back.
They’re seeing 10, 15%. We do have that. Amazing. But goal wise, I am much more comfortable saying, all right, let’s get you to that four, four, 5%. I think that’s reasonable. You can try to improve on there. I, yeah, I don’t ever want people coming [00:34:00] in and going. I, like we were saying, I, I, I had 100 people on my list and only 40, but, nope, that’s way too much.
Oh, it’s math again. Shoot. I should have known. Before I started that statement, I should have learned from my last one.
Teresa:
Yeah, don’t talk about math. Don’t talk about math.
Like four. Four people.
Nicki:
Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Yes. Like, yeah, if you do 40, call me.
Teresa (2):
Yeah.
Nicki:
yeah. Whatever you’ve done.
Teresa:
I want to duplicate that.
Nicki:
That’s amazing. Thank you. I’ve been led. The circuit sales system was great for whatever you’re doing. Yes, exactly. I don’t ever want people to, to come in and expect that I’m going to be able to sell half of everybody who, you know, it, that’s, it’s not reasonable, but the nice thing is, is that when you.
When you have it automated, and when you have it running, what you really need to focus on then is, is the, just getting people into it. When you know the system is going, you also then have a steady stream of people going through it, which means it makes it so much easier to test. We [00:35:00] have, A dozen tests going at any time where, you know, we’re testing subject lines, we’re testing headlines, we’re testing images, we’re testing all of that kind of stuff.
And we can do it so quickly. We can have a test run and done within a couple of days because we always have people going through. Always know and we can constantly make those tweaks that can just improve it. And that’s, that’s our CSS students are probably sick of me hearing it in, you know, in coaching called we do our coaching calls every other week and I’ll sit down with them and they’ll ask me questions like, that’s a great idea.
I think you might also want to try this. And I think you also might want to try this and test it because nobody knows for sure, except your audience.
Teresa (2):
Yeah. Yeah. I have a, I’m going to pretend it’s like a follow on question from the one question, because I promised you that was the last one. With your percentage, is there a particular price point that you’ve seen this work well at?
And is there like, okay, do not do it if it’s like a $2,000 thing, or this [00:36:00] is actually much better around the $50 mark. Like what’s your kind of price point?
Nicki:
That’s a great question. I would not recommend anybody do it for any, I mean, I guess you could do, I wouldn’t do it for any I definitely wouldn’t do it for anything less than, like, 197.
Teresa:
Okay.
Nicki:
It, and then I would really say maybe 297 is where you want to start. Only because it’s a lot of work, and I don’t think you need to do that much work to sell a 197 product. For most audiences, you don’t need to put in this level of effort to sell like a 197 product. Now that said, we have students selling at 297, we have students selling up at, I want to say, For 5, 000 now.
Wow. Yeah. Now, here’s the thing too, is that what you can also, you can either build in direct to sales, to selling, or if you have the kind of business and maybe you also have a higher price point, you can also build in direct to sales calls
Teresa (2):
as calls.
Nicki:
So you send them through [00:37:00] here, you get them warmed up, you get them really, really excited.
You get them primed and then send them to a sales call. We also have some students that have them make the purchase, but then have a, an intro call afterwards, mostly because the coach wants to make sure that they’re getting the right people in the program. So they say. You know, make your purchase and you’re going to have the initial call and, you know, if in the initial call you decide it’s not a fit, no problem.
I’ll refund your money. But it’s, it’s really much more for the coach to be like, I just want to make sure I’m not dealing with people I don’t want to be dealing with. But so you can, there’s some flexibility in how you do it and you can also too, and people hear this and they think, well, I have to be selling something that is always open and you, you certainly can.
But, we also have students that use it for like live cohorts, you know, like, well, I have a live cohort in March and I have a live cohort in September and I have a, well, how do I do that? All you do is when you open up your, I mean, you have to watch it a little bit more carefully, but you have your circuit going and you’re selling for that next cohort.
And when that next cohort [00:38:00] fills, then you switch it up. So you’re selling for the one after that, or if you want to give people the option, you can do do one or the other, but your product doesn’t necessarily have to be, your product doesn’t have to be always available. They can start at any time.
But we have, we have students who are selling one to one services that kind of intend eventually to add group program. But right now they’re selling their one to one services, which again, you have to watch that a little bit more closely because if you turn it on, you turn on ads, then you suddenly find you have 80 appointments booked in a week and that’s impossible. I mean, impossible, but terrible.
Teresa (2):
Yeah.
Nicki:
But you can still also be using this to sell out, yes, group programs, yes, courses, but also selling one to one services because it’s just, it’s all the same principles and it’s all based on really digging into the right messaging for your audience and then the right customer psychology so that you are, you’re supporting them in the process of purchasing instead of trying to [00:39:00] like force them or, or if it’s evergreen, just kind of hoping that they’re going to come and purchase.
Teresa:
Just land on your site. And.
Nicki this has been so, so insightful. I have loved it. And hopefully I always hope that the audience, when I am finding something out that I’m asking all the questions that they would ask.
Like sometimes when I know something and I have a guest on, I might miss some of those, like, you know, questions that actually are the crucial ones, because it’s like, I know that thing. So I personally love it when I am learning something. Cause I’m like, no, tell me this and what’s this and how’s this. And I feel like that really helps for whoever’s listening.
I love that you’ve talked about the fact of, you know, having that thing on demand, having those circuits. seeing it as you flip that completely in my head in terms of normally what we talk about is you bring them on, you nurture them, you love them, you take them out on dates, you do all of that, and then you sell to them.
So to actually flip that at that point, it’s really [00:40:00] interesting. I’d love to see how that works in practice, talking about the, putting them back on another circuit or putting them back onto another sales thing, whether it’s upsell downsell, there’s loads of opportunities. And actually, you know, really surprised me with the price there.
Like, But it makes sense if this is a big, if this is, like you said, Nothing is no work, right? I wish there was something that was out there that like, literally, you do something super simple, make loads of money. It does not exist in this space. Everything you see every successful person doing has been a ton of work.
So, but I get what you’re saying in terms of the work up front is not worth it if you’re going to sell something for $30 because it’s not going to actually be worth the effort. But the fact that you can sell it right the way up to like twenty five, 6, 000 is, is amazing. It’s so cool. Nicki, where can people come and find about you?
Nicki:
Absolutely. You can follow us on social, of course, at circuit, circuit sales system. And then if you want to see what it’s like, if you want to get the, the real inside, it’s kind of meta [00:41:00] really. But if you want the inside look at it. Yeah. Go to circuitselling. com and, and sign up for our video and see what it looks like on, on the inside.
Yeah.
Teresa:
And I am going to be doing that and taking notes as I watch everything come in. Like I love this stuff. Nicki, thank you so much. It’s been a pleasure to have you on.
Nicki:
Thank you.
