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Dan Knowlton on Winning Big Brands and Overcoming Business Fears

Today’s episode of the podcast is an interview with the very funny and very clever Dan Knowlton, where we chat about all things business, marketing and public speaking.

This episode is not only filled with some really valuable and practical tips and advice, it also has some funny stories and lots of laughs in it too – and I know you will love it!

 

KEY TAKEAWAYS COVERED IN THE PODCAST

  1. Marketing strategies that have worked for Knowlton
  2. Tips and advice for pitching to big brands
  3. Techniques to overcome fear and impostor syndrome in public speaking

 

Dan is the Co-Founder of Knowlton, a business that he started with his brother back in 2015. Knowlton is a creative video and social media marketing agency based in Kent, UK, and they are on a mission to rid the world of crap marketing!

Knowlton help businesses to generate a trackable ROI from their marketing with their creative social media management and thumb-stopping marketing campaigns. They've generated millions in trackable sales for some of the world’s leading brands like Wahl, Buy Whole Foods Online, Boston Consulting Group, and BBC Storyworks!

If you enjoyed this episode then please feel free to go and share it on your social media or head over to iTunes and give me a review, I would be so very grateful.

 

LINKS TO RESOURCES MENTIONED IN TODAY’S EPISODE

Connect with Dan on LinkedIn

Check out the Knowlton website

Watch the Steven Bartlett parody video

Connect with Teresa on Instagram, LinkedIn or Facebook

Transcript

Teresa: Hello and Welcome to this week's episode of the Your Dream Business Podcast. How are you doing this week? So this week I have. a very dear friend on the podcast and a fellow podcaster. He has his own podcast as well, but his on the whole is a little bit more funnier than mine, which I'm a bit gutted about because I think I'm funny, but no, his is definitely funnier than mine.

So this week I am very, very excited to welcome to the podcast, the very lovely Dan Knowlton. Dan, how are you doing?

Dan: Oh, good. I'm really pleased. I can't believe I've never been on your podcast.

Teresa: Never. I can't believe it. I don't know how.

Dan: Yeah. Yeah. It's good to be here. Nice. Really, really good to be. I don't know how funny our podcast is that you've kind of built it up a bit.

Teresa: Oh, so I was doing my research this morning, right. And I was listening to some of your episodes. Now I do listen to your podcast, but I have to say as a podcaster, I don't know about you, but I am a bit rubbish at listening to other people's podcasts. And also when I do listen to podcasts, I tend to listen to health related podcasts or like I listened to Andrew Huberman, Huberman's lab. Do you listen to that?

Dan: I don't, but I watch his content on TikTok and stuff. Yeah.

Teresa: Love it. He's so good. So yeah, I'm not very good at listening to like businessy type ones, but yeah, so I was listening this morning and there's always a funny story, which generally in our life, there's always funny stories, but you told this one.

Wrecking hilarious story. Oh, of what I listen to. Right. Which I had to, had to ring up. You were talking about Cheese on toast.

Dan: Oh no. I thought you were gonna say it. Oh.

Teresa: Brilliant. Please tell, tell my lovely listeners what the hell happened.

Dan: I'm like this is a business marketing podcast. This is nothing to do with business or marketing.

So I'll very briefly tell the story. We were talking, we did an episode about the biggest mistakes we made in 2023 and you know, how everyone shares the highlight reel. And we were like, so we talked about business mistakes and stuff. And then I just sort of had to share one of the biggest mistakes I made over the Christmas period.

Which was I, I basically like cheese on toast. I've always liked cheese on toast from a kid. And Crystal, my other half had gone out for the day and I had the kids at home and I thought, I'm going to make some cheese on toast. So got the cheese out, got the bread out, you know, and saw this new cheese grater on the side.

I thought, wicked. We've got a cheese grater. I grated the cheese. cook the cheese and toast was delicious. And then the next day I did the same thing. I was so good yesterday. I'm going to do it again. And then to my horror, the next day, Christelle said to me, why is my foot greater in the dishwasher? And I was like, Oh no, it's the grimace thing.

And she used it, the worst bit is she like soaked her feet the, the night before and stuff and really had a good go on her. Oh no.

Teresa: My God. Oh my God. It's too brilliant. And do you know what, like, because I have one of those.

Dan: Oh, do you have one? I didn't know they were a thing.

Teresa: Yeah, Right.

Dan: I didn't know they were a thing.

Teresa: And Paul and I always joke, like anybody would need Parmesan.

Dan: Yeah. I literally ate some Parmesan.

Teresa: Literally disgusting. But yeah, like, I don't, is it just women who have really awful feet? I think men don't have awful feet.

Dan: I don't know. I just don't. Yeah. I don't get why you need to grate your feet. So I didn't even know that was a thing, but apparently it is.

Teresa: It is. It is. But what it was doing in the kitchen, I'm not entirely sure.

Dan: I think like an open plan space. Yeah, that was my thing. Like it was like on the side in the open plan kitchen. So I was just like, Oh, it's been put over there. Like just on the edge.

Teresa: That is brilliant. That is brilliant. Were you sick or were you all right?

Dan: Oh, it's fine. They tasted delicious at the time, but yeah, I also can't believe you've actually done research for this episode. I thought, because we know each other, I thought she's not going to bother doing anything. You've actually.

Teresa: I do. Right. And it's funny because it's almost worse when I know someone because it's almost a case of like, I'm so relaxed about what, like, just chatting, but then actually, is there a reason to us chatting?

Can I just share, right, just so people know the research that Dan did in preparation for this interview. I have an Asana form that people have to fill in, right? And it says on the Asana form, can you please give us examples of questions that would be great to ask you? This is my way of, like, not having to do research.

Dan wrote, These is questions he wants me to ask him. Why are you so charming and incredibly good looking and model? Please can I give you 10, 000 pounds and why are you such an incredible human being? Those are my questions to ask Dan today. So yeah, I needed to do a bit of research.

Dan: Well, I thought it's your podcast. I'm not giving you the questions to ask me. I don't know what you want to ask me.

Teresa: That's helpful. That's really helpful.

Dan: You know me anyway, you know me.

Teresa: We do. We do. So Dan, let's start by you explaining what you do and how you got to do the thing you do.

Dan: What do I do? I am the co founder of Knowlton, which is a creative video and social media marketing agency that I started with my brother back in 2015.

And we, we work with brands to support them to deliver really creative marketing campaigns, mainly on social media that deliver a trackable return on investment. And we've worked with lots of well known brands over the years. We're also like you said, we've got a podcast called business anchors and we love that.

Teresa: Just even the name, like, you know.

Dan: Do you know, do you know, Yeah, because we wanted to call it business anchors, but we knew that it wouldn't, it would get demoted in the algorithm. So we called it business anchors and put an anchor in front of the A and made it like nautical theme. So it looks like a W. So you can imagine the vibe of the podcast.

And anything else I should tell you? Also, speak at events. We've spoken at quite a few events together over the years.

Teresa: Yeah, we have. That's how we met. Except the first time we met, do you remember the first time we met?

Dan: I just remember us really getting on, but I can't remember which event it was at. I'm amazed it's not ingrained in your head.

No, go on. What was it?

Teresa: So, it was at a social day. It was one that was at like Years ago, right? Yeah, yeah. It was like a football ground or a rugby ground or something like that.

Dan: Was it Birmingham?

Teresa: No, I don't think it was. We did the Birmingham one. I did the Birmingham one and that's where I first met Biz Paul, which is ace.

Yeah. And then. There was another one that I think was further down south because obviously you're based down on Margate. Yes. So I think it was further down south, but it wasn't in London, but you were speaking, Andrew and Pete were speaking. It was the first, Victoria Taylor was speaking. It was like the gang. It was the first time I'd ever met any of you.

Yeah. Biz Paul was there again. So it was like, Oh, I know you. We met before. But yeah, and it was quite small, but it was a really good day. And I think Lloyd was there as well. So Dan has a brother called Lloyd, and I think Lloyd is there as well. But, I mean, I don't want to play to your ego, Dan, but I did cause my stepdaughter was with me at the time because she used to work in the business.

Yeah. I did say to her, he's pretty good looking.

Dan: Oh, thanks. Thanks Teresa.

Teresa: It's fine. It's fine. It like.

Dan: The only trouble with whenever, whenever I see an event, we end up just not going to the event and go out and it's like lunch and just chatting. And then we like social media marketing world. Yeah. There was all these sessions on that. We just.

Teresa: We didn't do any.

Dan: That's the only trouble, isn't it?

Teresa: And I think that's the thing and I think that's the shame about when you're a speaker and, and like the speaker, people go to events, that's the only time you get to catch up. And it's like, well, and that's a sucky time to catch up because you're all doing something and you've all got to be there for a reason.

And so it's, it's so lovely to see you. But we don't often, and I always say this like we, the group of us should all just organize something where we all hang out.

Dan: Yeah. I like going, I like going to events where I'm not speaking and just like to them then you can actually catch up, can't you? Rather than just you're in the like speaker zone and you're almost trying to concentrate and make sure you deliver and you're Yeah.

I, I, I struggle to not just think about delivering a good session until I've done it and then I can be like, Ugh, relax after that.

Teresa: Do you, okay. So that's interesting. 'cause I don't like going to events if I'm not speaking. because I love speaking and I just sit there and it's like I have to sit with my hands underneath me so I don't jump up and get on the stage.

Yeah, I really struggle. I really love the speaking side. I get a bit like, Oh no, I want to, I want to be.

Dan: Do you know, do you know an event you should, you should come to this year? The best event that I've ever been to, and we're going back again, it's in Ibiza. Did you see that? It's called Agency Hackers Super Summit.

We spoke last year, we're not speaking this year, but we're going back, we're taking our team and stuff. It's going to be wicked. You should come to that.

Teresa: Unbelievable.

Dan: I keep forgetting we're on a podcast. I'm just trying to catch up with you, but you should come to that event.

Teresa: People don't mind listening to this stuff.

I'm going to write that down. Agency hackers. I mean, I don't have an agency. Well, I did, but I don't anymore.

Dan: It's a lot of like marketing business people and stuff. It's really, it was, yeah, it's an amazing event. You should come.

Teresa: That's awesome. So Dan has this agency now with your brother. Which, so that's one of my first questions about, cause I worked with and supported lots of twos in a business.

You are not one of those people I've worked with or supported with, but how is it having someone who is your brother working with them?

Dan: It's brilliant. This is the question that a lot of people ask and because people relate to anything that I could never work with my brother or my sister, but. I absolutely love it.

And the reason I love it is because we, we, we've learned to really work well together. We're, we're, we've got, we've got completely opposite skills and We went on a walk over there and we're talking about that. It's like, we've got to the point now where every week we have this weekly meeting as part of, we kind of use the entrepreneurs, entrepreneurs operating system to run our business.

So we have these weekly meetings where we look at like, how is everything going? And we keep each other accountable. And when we started doing it at the start of the business, we used to critique each other and take it really personally. So he'd be like, Dan, this week numbers aren't looking as good. Like I saw you did this.

Could you, and like, I take it all personally and it was just rubbish. Now we know each other so well that we can like, we critique each other, but we completely take it on board in a positive way. Like that's such a good suggestion. I'm going to take an action next week. I'm going to schedule that. I'm going to speak to this team member to make sure we do this.

And we've over the years, we've just evolved that relationship. So, and it's also really sad because we spend all of our lives working together. We play squash together multiple times in the evenings. Our families hang out on the weekends. Like you'd think that we should hate each other.

Teresa: Beat up of each other. Yeah.

Dan: Yeah. But I, our, our other halves always take the piss out of us that we like, oh, come on, you've seen each other all week. Do we have to like, see them again? And we're like, yeah, we wanna hang out.

Teresa: That's ace though that is like. That's so good. Do you both have the same vision for the business?

Dan: Yep.

Teresa: That's awesome.

Dan: So we, we sat down in, in 2019, I think it was, we sat down and like discussed that we, I think we went, Lloyd went to a seminar, this guy called James Sinclair, and he speaks about the importance of having an end point. Whether or not you want an end point is like knowing what could that end point be and then work backwards from there.

And that's when we developed our like 10 year 2030 plan together. We were like, what do we want to have? Like, what do we want to get to be within 10 years at 2030? And we both agreed on that and then came up with like a comprehensive plan of each year, how we're going to get to that point. Yeah, I mean, we're totally aligned on where we want to get to.

Teresa: So give me a quick rundown then, like, where do your skills lie and where do his lie?

Dan: So, okay, so he, his official job title is like our CEO. So he does, he manages our team and the projects and that side of things. He is really good at managing people. I'm dog shit at that. He is very empathetic and caring and kind.

I'm not saying I'm not, I'm, I'm very commercially driven and he's very much like people's feelings and things like that, which is lovely. And I, you know, I, I, I'm also like that, but, but I think like if, if it was just him running the business, he'd end up just being a charity and failing because he'd just give everything away.

Yeah. If it was just me, I'd probably be, too commercially driven and people wouldn't like me, so we come together perfectly and it works really great because we always discuss everything. So he's very good at managing people and he's logistics. I'm terrible at logistics. Previous job role I had, I basically had a meltdown because it was a very logistical and my brains and work like that.

So he's very good at thinking about all these projects to deliver. We can do that then we can do this then. So he's very logistical. And I guess on the other side, I am, I feel like I'm a real people person. Love like having chats like this and like, you know, with people and I, my official job title is CMO chief marketing officer, but I handle all of the sales and marketing.

So, and our marketing team as well. So I love sales. I love pitching. I love meeting people, love speaking at events and things like that. Yeah. So I think that that's why I'm, I'm better at sales and that kind of stuff.

Teresa: And you're the, like, I was going to say you're the face, but like, in one way you are, but Lloyd, it is as face front, you know, as, as you are, but you're the one who speaks on stages. You're the one who does podcast interviews. You're the one who, who, like you said, goes out and does the pitching and things and the training, if you have to do, cause you and I both worked for a company in Dubai and did training for that company.

And, you know, so you would be the one that goes and, and does that.

Dan: Yeah. It's kind of evolved over the years though. So it started out. I was very much speaking events. There was just me and Lloyd is behind the scenes. Then Lloyd started being, Lloyd's way more funny than me. Like I'm not funny.

Teresa: Lloyd is hilarious.

Like in a, the driest, most subtle, unassuming way, he is hilarious.

Dan: He's, he spent the last 30 years knowing how to say, whisper one thing in my ear and I'll be in hysterics. So he gets me like in the, on the podcast when we were shooting content, he just knows how to get me. So. He's, he's definitely the funny one.

He started being in more of our content, like our sketch based content. And then we started the podcast together and, but yeah, so it's, it's kind of a combination now, but I'm still, he doesn't do the speaking and stuff, but yeah, it works well. It works for everything.

Teresa: That's awesome. Okay. So I finally worked out what we're going to talk about as we were talking.

Dan: We're initially planning for this as we're going.

Teresa: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm just seeing how the mood takes us Dan. And what I want to focus on is you've worked with some really, really good companies. You've done some really cool stuff. In fact, I meant to tell you in my research, because I am a professional then, I was going through your site.

I saw a video that was served to me as an ad the other day that you guys have produced.

Dan: Really?

Teresa: And, and I have to say. I watched a fair chunk of that ad before I moved on, so it's the one for the Whole Foods

Dan: Oh, buy whole foods online.

Teresa: So obviously I'm very Zen and healthy and amazing. And I only eat organic plants, that sort of thing.

You know, the school, yeah. Mainly seeds. That's all I eat. But anyway, I do buy organic and I do buy from places like that. So that ad was served to me, which good marketing because I am the right customer and it was a good ad and it caught my attention. I was like, Oh, that's really interesting. And then when I go on your site, I'm like, hang on a minute.

So then I thought, Did I see it through them? And I was like, no, I didn't because I remember going, what is this? And having a look at what it was. So yeah, well done. Excellent. But anyway, so yeah, you've working with some big companies. You love pitching. How, how do you even start the conversation? Hopefully you'll, you've got to a point where people are now coming to you and you do create a lot of content around it and you do create some very funny videos, which help you to be seen, but.

How are you getting your clients? What are you doing?

Dan: Okay. So I'm going to reveal all of our secrets to you now Teresa.

Teresa: Great. Thanks.

Dan: So I'll, I'll start with more fluffy, like bigger picture stuff and then I'll get more practical. Okay. And like, here are the things we do. So the bigger picture of fluffy stuff is we you're right.

We do now work with well known global brands that you would have heard of, but the way we got there is We call them kind of stepping stone clients. So there's, there's two, there's two concepts I'll explain to you. There's there's stepping stone clients and there's milking the top 10%. This is like a big picture, fluffy stuff.

So, Steppingstone clients, how we got to, you know, working in our parents spare room, never had a client, to working with the BBC, or Wall, the male grooming brand, or Sonny the drink friend, like how we got from there to there, the big picture thing is Steppingstone clients. So when we started out in our parents, we started working with very small local businesses.

You would have never heard of small hotels, restaurants, and we delivered some good results for them based on how much they were paying. So we weren't generating millions of pounds for them, but based on the value that we're getting, a good return investment. So we, we started with those companies and started to build up a portfolio of evidence that we deliver on our promises.

And then eventually once you deliver, once you create enough evidence that you deliver on your promises for small companies, then you can start to punch upwards and talk about that and promote it and attract like the next like caliber of clients. So I'll give you some examples of stepping stone clients.

Our first stepping stone client from, from, from small local hotels and restaurants was our local council. So that was the first, you know, you might think that's not that impressive, but at the time when we won the local council as a customer, that's like the local counselor trusting us to deliver something for them.

That's, that's a small notch of credibility on our belt. So that was a stepping stone. Then it, then it, then it turned into like our first, and I remember when we got the phone call and the agreement signed for this, it was Eurotunnel. I don't know if you know the underground train system. Yeah. Yeah. Does that was the first company that we thought people might have actually like heard of travel to France stuff.

They literally signed the agreement and I remember getting it and I, I was euphoric. Like, I mean, I felt like I had just taken something and I was on another planet because they, they called and said, we want to work with you. I immediately called Lloyd. He was in a petrol garage. Right. And we were, we both on the phone were jumping up and down and jumping up and down.

God. You were told I want to work with us, you were told I want to work with us, and I was euphoric. Like, bear in mind, we put all this hard work in, and it had been a couple of years by then, I think. It had been a couple of years of us working with smaller companies. We were like, this is going to change our lives, and like, genuinely, we were so excited.

Teresa: I love it. I love it.

Dan: And then we worked with them and we did a really cool project where we basically, we as a creative thing where we, it was all about promoting people going on skiing holidays on the Eurotunnel. And we did this concept where we skied down a mountain with a kitchen sink, because it was like, you can take everything in your kitchen sink when you go on Eurotunnel, because you can take your car and you can put stuff in it.

And it was, yeah, yeah. It was like a massive project for us at the time. And that was our first client. From there, then we started to work with bigger clients. Who was the next one after that? So the next one after that was probably, I'm trying to think, it might've been Nestle and then Walden, our grooming brands, then Sunny D more recently and the BBC.

But like, so that's the first thing, stepping stone clients, you, you, you start to deliver great work and then you start to punch upwards and talk about the great work and those next. Then the next, the next concept is milking the top 10 percent that's part of this. So what milking the top 10 percent is, is looking at all of the work you deliver and think by now, who is the most you've ever worked with the people will look at milk that client in a sense of a marketing perspective, you need to promote that promote that client as much as possible.

So if you look at our website now, And it's currently being updated. So don't judge us. But if you look at our website, everything we talk about is the, is, is the world leading brands that we've worked with. Everything you'll see is we've worked with Nestle. We've worked with wool, Sunny D's. We're working with tons of other brands you would have never heard of.

Yeah. That is, that is really our bread and butter. but we constantly milk the top 10 percent and shout about these. So, so for the perception of everyone else, we're constantly working with these big global brands and we are every month we work with big global brands, but we're kind of milking the top 10%.

That's the other two concepts that

Teresa: I love that.

Dan: Bigger picture.

Teresa: And like, when I, Translate that into my business. That's like me getting one person on a podcast and going, who's the next connection to them? And then when I go and pitch, and we've just been talking about the summit, which by the time this comes out, the summit is done.

Like, oh God, that gives it done. That's like literally, wow, this, this is coming out in April. Summit's done in March. Like, and no one's even heard about the summit, but obviously, you know, I got Amy and then used. Used Amy, that sounds awful, but used Amy's name. Do you want to come and speak? So like you said, it's that milking, that top 10 percent of going, these are the quality people I've got.

You want to come and do this because I've got these quality people. So yeah, I love both of those things. So tell me, like, you obviously are really confident in what you do and the pitching and that sort of thing. What tips would you give to someone who is like, that terrifies me to death, having to go and pitch?

Dan: Okay, so the first, I learned something that from that event in Ibiza that we went to that I'm going to share with you that has completely changed the game with our pitching that will hopefully be valuable for listeners and stuff. But the first thing about people who are scared, you've just got to get over it.

I think I did a, I did a talk years ago at Atomicon And one of the things I spoke about was it was all to do with confidence on video, which kind of applies to this, like confidence of, and it was, it was all about understanding how bad do you want the, the end result of you doing what you're scared to do.

So for example, pitching. So for us, I am so motivated to grow this business and to the point we want to get it to by 2030. I am so motivated to do that. I will do anything, you know, ethically within reason, but I don't care about, I don't, I'm not like, I get scared speaking on stage. I get nervous pitching world leading brands, you know, but I don't care because I want that end result so bad that I don't care.

That's what I have to do. So to, to overcome that, that that thing. Oh, I'm scared. It's like, how, how bad do you want the thing that you're going to achieve from doing this? Cause if you, if you're still too scared, you don't want it bad enough. So you may as well focus on something else. So that that's the first thing.

Secondly, some tips around pitching. We went to that agency event and I spoke about Ibiza and we spoke to a lady called Carrie Rose. She runs Rise at Seven. Incredible lady, hugely inspiring, grew this super successful kind of SEO search PR agency. And one of the tips she gave us, we had a little private chat with her and I asked her for some advice about pitching because they're winning pitches.

You know, pitches come out of their ears and she said one thing that stuck with me. She was like, in your pitch, don't start by talking about yourself. You know, the classic, Hi, I'm Dan and I run Knowlton and we do this stuff. Us, us, us, me, me, me, me, me. Don't do that. Start by teaching them something. Teach, teach, teach the people or the brand you're pitching, have a look at what they're currently doing and, and teach them something that's going to help them that your expertise and that.

So that first emotion they're going to feel is thank you, Teresa. You've taught me something. You clearly know your stuff. You've taught, you've looked at what we're doing and you've taught. And, and I, and I noticed this, we started implementing this like a couple of months ago, and we've won so many pitches and.

Lloyd was on a pitch with me. I can't say the brand name or anything, but it was a well known brand. And he, he was on this virtual pitch and he said to me, when you started to teach him that thing and speak about their product, the guy, the decision makers eyes lit up on this, on this virtual call. Cause he was like, you're talking about the thing he gives a shit about.

Yeah. And then he was like, and obviously when we, when you started talking about what we do, he sort of dulled down a bit and wasn't as interested. And it's like obvious because if putting yourself in their shoes, they don't care about you. They care about an end result or their, and their brand and stuff.

So, so focus on that versus like, we're this, we're that we can help you in. And yeah, that's something that's really helped us.

Teresa: So there's a couple of things I wanted to say to that. The firstly, the, the fact that you have your big vision in mind and you are driven to getting that and therefore whatever it takes, whatever you've got to do, you've just got to get over yourself.

I think that's, that is key. And obviously one of the things that I talk about and teach all the time is goal setting and you know, thinking about where we're heading and having that plan. And actually, one of the things I haven't done externally is look at the five, the 10, the 20 years, we tend to do it a year out.

And I think some people think that's absolute BS. And they think that like, Oh, you know, it's so great that you set these goals and whatever, but actually that enables you to go. Actually, I'm terrified, but let's just do this anyway. Like, if I want this thing and I want it so freaking bad, and that's the other thing, right?

It's not just setting a goal that's like, the world tells me I should earn this, or I should work so many days, or I should be like, you know, doing this thing. it's actually going, what do I want? What passion do we have? What is our dream? Because then you are going to do the big things and you are going to do the scarier things.

And then the other thing that you said, which I want to touch on, because I think some people will be listening to this. I'll go naah. All right. The teaching element. I know that lots of my audience and lots of people in general have imposter syndrome. Okay. They have this whole What the hell, especially with big brands like, and I've done this, I spoke, Oh God, it wasn't last year.

It was the year before for a company that I do a lot of work with in Greece and they want to make to a presentation on content. Right. And ordinarily that's not what I speak about now. Yeah. However, if you want to pay me to come along and do some training, I am going to do it all day long.

So obviously I put together my content presentation. I've got stuff that I did. And then I said to them, could you tell me, do you have an idea of who's in the room? Because obviously I just want to make sure I'm giving some good examples and pitching the right way and, you know, doing those sorts of things in terms of making sure that I give them value.

And they went, yeah, yeah, sure. So the Greece's number one telecom company are in FedEx. And suddenly I was like, I am going to fall flat on my face because I, all my examples are like small business examples because that's who I speak to. So then I started getting massive imposter syndrome, like, what the hell have I got to teach FedEx?

Like, geez, man, they're massive. How? And the truth was I could, and you can, but what, what should someone be thinking about it? If they're sat there thinking. I've got nothing to teach these people, like surely they must know it.

Dan: Okay, so, so I'll share like my weird process with this. Okay. Awesome. So, so my thoughts, right, all this worry, and I totally relate to that.

So point number one is, and it sounds really morbid, but we're all going to die. And this is what I literally say to myself in my head, you know, like if you're worrying about, Oh, there's someone in the audience who's better than you or whatever, who, who knows more, they're going to die. You're going to die.

None of this matters. It's just marketing and business. Yeah. I mean? Yeah. And it's, it's genuinely like, that's what, and I've learned to say this to myself, none of this matters. That was the worst thing that can happen. Even if you muck it all up, you know, even if your pants fall down and you're suddenly naked on the stage, you know, do you know what I mean?

Teresa: I mean, that only happened once. So don't do it again.

Dan: Yeah. I was arrested after that, but no, but that's the first thing. So, so stop just. Doesn't matter. It's only marketing. It's only business. Second thing is you've been asked to like, like this, your, your talk, for example, you asked to deliver that because, because of your experience and the things you've, you've learned, and you can definitely share lessons that you've learned in your experiences.

The world's leading marketers wouldn't know. There's certain things that you've done through your experiences that little nuggets of your stories that you could tell and things that they would still get value from. So that's the next thing. And yeah, I think that they're the two key things for me.

You're going to die and you're, you're, you're asked there for a reason.

Teresa: Yeah. I think you're right. I think if we can think to ourselves and like I said, it sounds a bit morbid, but you're so right. Like on your death bed, you're not going to go. I reckon those people didn't think I was an expert in that talk.

Dan: Who gives a shit to Teresa?

Teresa: No one. No one. Like, honestly, it really doesn't matter. Like, we've just got to go out there and try and do it and, you know, do the thing. Yeah. I love that. Okay.

Dan: So out of interest, Teresa, can I just ask you, cause you do loads of speaking and stuff. Yeah. I would be genuinely interested in what's your advice?

Like, how do you, cause you never look scared or anything when you're speaking and you're like, you know, absolutely killing it. What, what, what do you say some weird thing in your head or anything, or are you just like really good at everything?

Teresa: No, not really good at everything. So. I think this is where my woo slightly comes in, which I know you love Dan.

I'm saying that joking, he doesn't. So I ground myself. And when I say ground myself, you were talking about this on the podcast. When I said ground myself.

Dan: You stand outside in the grass.

Teresa: No, I don't. I don't because I have a real hygiene thing. So I often will take my shoes off. and put my feet flat on the ground.

And this is woo, but it really genuinely helps me. And I imagine.

Dan: No judgment here, Teresa. No judgment here.

Teresa: Thanks. Thanks. I imagine roots going out of my feet into the ground and making me solid like a tree. Okay. Wow. So that's the first thing I do just, and often that can be like, so if I'm sat down waiting to be called upon to the stage, I'll take my shoes off before they start introducing me.

And then I'll slip back on like right beforehand.

Dan: That's so interesting.

Teresa: Then. As I'm just about to get on stage. I slow my breathing down and I relax my breathing because one of the things I do is in the nerves because I do have nerves and I'm glad I get nervous because I guess it means I give a damn right. In my nerves I talk fast anyway when I'm nervous I am like at the speed of freaking light right so I can talk so fast that when I first get on stage I'm like so one of the things I have to do is rather than like you know how some people have to like hype themselves up to get on stage.

No, no, no. I have to stop calming down. Otherwise I get on and I'm too excitable. I think for me, my, one of my things is no one wants to see you fail. Right. No one like, unless they're absolute sadist, horrible person. No one's like, Oh, I hope she falls over or I hope she belts down on stage. No one wants that because it's the most uncomfortable thing in the world.

Like to watch someone on stage and they're like.

Dan: That's true. It is awkward, isn't it? I've experienced that before when people have sort of flopped and it's like, Oh no, that's not nice for anyone.

Teresa: So no one wants that to happen. So I think And, and the other thing, so I think one, I keep that in mind that like people are willing you to be good, but also I don't try and be someone I'm not.

And you're really good at that too. Like you are, you are so relaxed and you're so chilled and you're so like, you're funny and you're easygoing and whatever. And I think if you try to walk on stage and be like, This

Dan: I am better than you.

Teresa: Yeah, exactly. Like, you know, you say some really smart stuff that it's not like you're not, you couldn't be a thought leader.

But if you tried to be the wanky thought leader, then, then you'd look like an absolute idiot. I think just embracing who we are and just going, some people are going to love us. Some people are going to think we're knobs. And either way, that's fine.

Dan: We're all going to die. Doesn't matter.

Teresa: Yes. The end. Thank you, Dan.

Bye. But honestly, it's such a good point. It's such, such a good point.

Dan: I like that though, that, that grounded thing. I know we took the piss out of grounding and stuff on our podcast, but. I think I actually do. I don't know if you class this as woo woo, but I do visualization of when I practice speaking. I visualize that there's thousands of people there, and then it helps my mind not go into panic mode, like, shit, there's thousands of people looking at me.

It's like, I've already imagined what that's like and put, So yeah, I do that. That's really interesting Teresa.

Teresa: And the visualization stuff I think is really important in terms of like seeing it be a success, seeing your, and again, like my way of thinking about anything that's a bit woo is if it helps me, I couldn't give a hoot.

Dan: Yeah, exactly.

Teresa: Believe in it. Don't believe in it. Love it. Don't love it. Like I'm not hurting anybody. I'm not making the whole audience round with me. I'm just doing my quiet little thing that no one would probably even know I'm doing. Yeah. And that helps me get on stage and perform and be in a different way.

But yeah, I think, I think that whole, I'm still grateful. I'm grateful for the nerves rather than thinking, just calm down, just be, you know, like, just go, okay, yeah, you're nervous. It's because I'm really excited. And it's going to be, I don't know about you, but within the first minute or two, I am like, I'll just stay up here all day.

Dan: When you get into it and it's going well, and you're like, I've prepped for this. And then you get in the flow. You just be like, yeah, I do agree with that. Definitely.

Teresa: So now we're down the speaking thing. I have another question to ask you on that. When you speak, and I find this fascinating, whether people do this or not, do you script what you're going to say? And do you say it verbatim?

Dan: So I'll tell you exactly what I do. I, in preparation, I write, I write a whole script of how I'd want to say everything perfectly. Right. So if I was to, if I was to deliver this and it was, you know, God's here, I'd be saying it like this and it's written in my, the way I speak, not like I used to do it like a, like a, I just sounded like a rat.

Yeah. So, so I write it, how I speak and how I want to say it. Then I go, I read it and go through practice, practice, practice, and then I start practicing without it. And I, I end up, don't see deliver it word for word, but I say it in a more natural way. Okay. And that's how I do it. So I don't think, Oh no, what's the word that I was going to say now?

I think like, what was I going to be talking about now? Because I've practiced so much. Does that make sense?

Teresa: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's what blows my mind, right? I remember having a conversation with Mike from the Membership Geeks and he said he writes a script, he then reads the script, he then records himself, he then plays the script through his headphones every night and he does it verbatim, right?

What? I can't even read a bio on the podcast without going

Dan: No, no, no, I'm the same.

Teresa: I am awful. So when I speak I put together my presentation and I, I'm putting it together as I'm making my slides. So I'm like, this would be good to talk about this thing here, this thing.

Dan: But you don't write anything. You don't.

Teresa: Write nothing.

Dan: Oh really? That's interesting. Not even bullet points.

Teresa: Nope. If I need bullet points, they're on the slide.

Dan: Oh, okay. Got you.

Teresa: Okay. But you've seen me talk like my slides have very little on them.

Dan: You come across like, I think that's the perfect way to do it though. It comes across like you're just talking to me like you are now.

But more structured, obviously, like more, you know.

Teresa: And, and for me, my worry is if I try to make it too structured, and if I tried to go, we want to talk about these points in this way.

Dan: Oh God, stressful.

Teresa: I would fall at the first hurdle and then I would screw up the rest of my talk. Like, I would be like, Oh no, I didn't say that as I wanted to.

And then I've thrown myself. And even I don't know if you've had this, but even when I've been on stage, I'm in the flow and I've noticed I'm in the flow and because I've noticed I've knocked myself out of the flow.

Dan: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I've done that. Do you know what? I don't know if you've ever had it.

I, one point I had one time I was speaking and I had like a certain segue that segue to the next slide and it didn't make sense if I didn't do the segue and my mind just went blank. Like, as in like, an empty head of like, literally no idea what I'm talking about. No idea what to say right now. And I just stared at the slide, like in my mind, like, fuck, what is, what the hell am I doing?

And I just sort of said, Oh, marketing and stuff. Honestly. And, but then, but then like, after about 30 seconds, I sort of thought I got back in it. Like, yeah. And I, I, that, that, that was actually the start of last year and it proper made me nervous about speaking. And I really, then I had quite, I had about five speaking things last year after that, and I really overprepared and I, and I felt like it went incredibly well, got great feedback.

But the start of the year, cause I was just like, yeah, I'm speaking. I hadn't spoken for a while. I was like, yeah, I'll be fine. Didn't prep enough. Oh man. And my mind went blank and it was, Oh, that's the worst feeling ever.

Teresa: That is brilliant. Like yeah, marketing and stuff.

Dan: No, but you know, have you never had your mind go completely blank?

Like literally nothing in your head?

Teresa: What I do now, and I think this has got to come from confidence, is I go, hold on a moment, completely blank, man. Where was I? And I literally tell them that that's what's just happened.

Dan: Yeah. But what if you do that? And after you say, where was I? You don't remember anything.

Teresa: Then that's a problem.

Dan: Is that worse? Is that worse or better? Sorry, completely blank. Where was I? Oh, still blank. Still blank, guys.

Teresa: Give me a minute.

Dan: No idea what I'm going on about. Yeah.

Teresa: I just think like, there are people who are way bigger, way more important than us that are shocking at like speaking, like just take the American presidents.

No offense to people who are American. Yeah. Yeah. Take UK prime ministers. Like they're, they're. Yeah. The stuff that they've done and said, I just think, well, it can't be worse than that. So.

Dan: There's a lot more pressure if they say the wrong thing. If we say the wrong thing, like I said, no one cares. It's only marketing.

There's much more important things in the world.

Teresa: And that's the thing. And I think sometimes when you are a speaker and when we go to these events where, and like some of the speakers are treated like celebrities and I have to say to myself, not me, by the way, but like not treat like a red carpet, which is a shame.

I'd like it, you know, I have to say to myself. They literally could walk out there and no one knows who they are. Like nobody, especially at social media marketing world at the big conferences, like people are treated like celebrities, like,  Oh my God. It's like, they're not Beyonce. Are they? Yeah. Yeah. You know?

And again, if they say something, the front pages of the papers are not going to be printed. It's fine. It's fine.

Dan: Exactly. We're like, this is what Lloyd and I say. So, so this is quite funny. Our team really take the piss out of us. We've got recognized a couple of times, like in random places, Lloyd and I at like the zoo.

Someone's like, just shouts like. Well, like a reference to the podcast or something. Oh, Lloyd, this is Ankin. Brilliant. And I even, I'll tell you what, Lloyd really takes a piss out of this story. But wait a minute, this happens like very rarely. So it's not like, Lloyd, no, no, no, Lloyd loves this story. So I was driving home from work one day and it was like a thin road.

I was driving down and it looked like there was traffic and I thought something stopped there. So a car's driving past me, winds the window down. I thought, Oh, they're gonna, they're going to tell me, you know, because I turned around, there's a thing down there, wind the window down. I went, you're right. And they went, are you Dan Knowlton?

This is why it's cringe and funny. I went, what? They went, are you Dan Knowlton from the Business Angus podcast? I went, yeah. They went, Oh, listen, I love it. I was like, Oh, thanks. Is anything going on down there? They're like, no, no, no, go on. I promise you. I don't know. It's cringe and funny talking about it because it never happens, but I told Lloyd that story and he just like our team will take the piss.

Like we always like always get recognized in the, you know,

Teresa: it's brilliant. I love that.

Dan: It's funny. Cause like two, two, a very small compared to like other people to a very small niche audience. We're fairly well known to a very small niche audience. So when that niche audience sees you It's like, but you know, you know, it's, it's a very small niche audience.

Teresa: That is brilliant. I love it. I love it. I love it. Right. Before we finished, cause I've had too much fun and it's brilliant. I want to ask you a couple of questions. These are purely, this is nothing for the podcast. This is just me being really nosy.

Dan: Yeah. Be nosy.

Teresa: So obviously one of the things that you guys do are really funny videos and you have done some fricking hilarious ones.

And you did one with Steve Bartlett in. Oh yeah. And if you haven't seen it, we'll, we'll link up to it in the show notes. And I have to say, you know, I'm going public with this. I'm not a big fan of Steve Bartlett. Never really have been. We have both spoke at an event where he spoke. I'm sure we were both speaking at it at social day many years ago, he was speaking and I was speaking.

I'm sure you must've been speaking. And I just was never really a big fan, like I don't hate the guy, I just don't like him particularly. So of course when I saw that, I just thought it was brilliant. Has he seen it? Have you had any fallout from that, like take it down?

Dan: No, no. So I think we've posted a few times. I think we made a video before that, where it wasn't so overtly taken a piss out of him. It was like when your boss can't get out of podcasting mode and it was taken a piss out of like people that do podcasts and it was like a team meeting set up. Like we've got Dave here today.

Dave's going to tell us what's going on in this meeting. It was like interviewing, saying references from the Diver CEO podcast. And that, and there was a, there was a sponsor on there called Chompers Dog Treats. And it was like, we only ever have, you know, relevant sponsors on this podcast, try Chompers Dog Treats.

And then Lloyd was said to be a dog and stuff anyway. And he caught, he commented laughing faces on that because it wasn't overtly looking like the Diary of a CEO podcast, but it was clearly poking fun at the references and stuff. So he commented laughing face on that, but then since then the other ones he hasn't, commented on or anything and people have tagged him and stuff, but I'm pretty sure he would have seen some of it buff, I guess.

Yeah, like maybe he's like, Oh, these guys again, sort of thing. Cause we, we did poke fun at some of the things he does, but it's all, it's all friendly banter. You know, there's no.

Teresa: No, it wasn't, it didn't come across like you're saying he's an idiot at all. It was very much like, well, it's just funny. Like, because he does, he really does have this like voice of.

And I started watching Dragon's Den again, which I avoided for a bit because I don't like him. No, honestly, I don't know what it is. Do you know what I was having a conversation with someone the other day who posted something about his, he recently did a podcast and he basically used the clickbait line that obesity causes autism, which is just horrific, right?

Most clickbaity thing ever. And apparently, I obviously didn't listen to it, so I didn't listen to the guy, but apparently that's not even what the scientist said. And it was actually a click baity thing, right? You know, and it was just crap. He should never have done that. Because as if there's not enough stigmatism around parents of children who have autism and now, oh, you're fat, so you're to blame.

Like, right. Yeah.

Dan: Like, how is that going to be positive in any way?

Teresa: Never. Right. So I'm having a conversation with this person who put it up and I, and I said, I've never been a fan. And I said, he strikes me as one of those guys who says nothing. Right. And I've had someone on the podcast. I won't be saying who it was.

Yeah. I've had someone on the podcast.

Dan: What do you mean someone who says nothing?

Teresa: Right. So basically.

Dan: Oh, like says fluffy things. Don't mean anything.

Teresa: Everything. But when you're like, so what, what's the practical thing that I can do? Or so what are you actually telling me to do? They say nothing. Right. So they, it's like, they're just saying a ton of Instagram quotes over and over and over.

And so I had this guy on the podcast who I really enjoyed the conversation. I sent the show, I sent the Podcast.

Dan: Can you, can you tell me who it was afterwards?

Teresa: I'll tell you who it was afterwards.

Dan: Okay. Go.

Teresa: But like sent it off to who does the show notes and she did the show notes and she was like, that was the hardest one I've ever done,

And she was like, he said nothing. She was, and because she has to listen to it in a very different way. IE what are the three key points I'm bringing out here? What are the takeaways? What is like the Yes. That's awesome.

Dan: Right? You're the actionable.

Teresa: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. nothing, nothing that he could say.

But then when the podcast went live, everybody loved it. Right. And it's like, how fascinating is that? Because it was very motivating and very like, yeah, he lifted me up, but like, actually it didn't tell you to do anything. And it was just a bit, it was like an Instagram quote. And I think that's what Stephen's like.

Dan: I think there's two, but I, to counter that, I think I agree with the fluffy thing. I think there's, there's sometimes I like, I like the super practical stuff, but I also, I listened to the, my first million podcast. That's like, My favorite podcast ever. And to like American guys, a lot of what they talk about isn't big, isn't really like practical step by step.

Here's how we do this. But they talk about really successful businesses and break down why they were successful. And I find that super inspiring. Yeah. But they do also share practical takeaways and stuff. So maybe.

Teresa: And you do need that inspiring the story that, you know, but I, and someone sent me an article ages ago, like a couple of years back of someone who basically had said, Stephen Bartlett's also rubbish.

And like he basically, they, this woman had said like, you know, when he says these facts, there's nothing in them. And so it was just really interesting. But, but yeah, I was wondering whether he'd seen it, whether he'd been like, speaky so and so's send you cease and desist.

Dan: No, none of that. No, I haven't received any of that yet.

But I think we're, we're going to probably hold off of doing any more Steven Bartlett content for a while because we've sort of hammered it a bit.

Teresa: Yeah. I mean, it's good content. It's really, like I said, I'll link up to it. It's very, very funny. Dan, you, as always have been a pleasure. I love hanging out with you and.

Dan: Are we in a podcast. I forgot we're doing a podcast.

Teresa: Yeah, we were doing a podcast.

Dan: I'm sorry. Right.

Teresa: I think we had a lot of stuff, like really good stuff for people to take away. You are very smart, Dan, even if you don't look it. No, I'm joking.

Dan: You cow.

Teresa: I am joking. You know, I love you. You know, I love you. But honestly, you are, you guys are super, super smart.

You've been so successful. I know you're going to continue to do amazing, brilliant things. And I love watching it. I love seeing what you guys do. You are the nicest guys, like genuinely lovely. So I honestly. I'm so excited to see every time you work with someone amazing and do cool stuff. And like I said, the stuff that you do is really funny.

Someone is obviously very creative in your world to come up with all these ideas because they are really cool. But Dan, where can people come and find you and follow you and see more of you?

Dan: Probably the best place is LinkedIn. I posted our content there. Just search my name, Dan Knowlton on LinkedIn.

We've got, we're on other platforms and stuff and our website as well. Knowltonmarketing. co. uk come see our work and things like that.

Teresa: Amazing. Dan, it's been a pleasure to have you on the podcast.

Dan: Thank you.

Teresa: So that was the amazing Dan Knowlton. Do go check them out. Do go see their content. It's really funny. It's really creative and different, and they're really kind of paving the way for that. So please do go check them out. I will be back next week with another interview until then having a wonderful week.