In this episode, I talk with April Martini about the distinctions between personal brands and personas. We explore the significance of business owners showing up authentically, and April shares her four-point framework for developing a personal brand. We discuss managing these elements to develop an effective and authentic personal brand that really reflects who you are.
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Transcript
Teresa:
Do you have a personal brand or do you have a persona of someone else’s personal brand? And what actually is the difference and how would you know? Well, in this week’s episode, I am talking to the very lovely April Martin and she is going to explain to us what A personal brand is, and what the difference between a persona and a personal brand.
She also has four things that she takes us through that really helps us understand how we’re showing up as our personal brand and how we can try and be as authentic as possible. And if you’re an online business owner, if you are in business, You are the biggest thing for your business. So actually, the more authentically you can show up, the more you hone your personal brand, the better for your business.
And I know what it’s like, cause I’ve done it to look at someone else’s personal brand and think, Oh, that’s working. I should try and do what they’re doing. And that just isn’t authentic enough. So this episode is going to be really, really helpful for you to understand what is your [00:01:00] personal brand and are you showing up as it?
Welcome to the Your Dream Business Podcast. I’m your host, Riz Heath Waring. An international bestselling author, award winning speaker, TEDx speaker, certified coach, and the host of this number one ranked podcast. I am so excited to guide you on the journey of creating a business and life that you not only love, but one that perfectly aligns with you and the season of life that you’re in.
In each episode, I’ll share with you easy, actionable, and insightful strategies to grow your online business. Plus, we’ll be diving into some mindset tools and strategies that keep you focused, motivated. Gonna stop you from getting in your own way. So if you’re a course creator, membership owner, or coach, you’re in the right place. Let’s get started.
Hello and welcome back to another episode of the Your Dream Business Podcast. I hope you are doing well. First off, I wanna take a minute just to thank you for spending the [00:02:00] time with me and listening to the podcast. It really does mean the world to me and recently, I’ve put out a few different episodes.
I really, really enjoyed it. Like I say that as if I don’t normally put out episodes I enjoy, I do, but like some of the solos and I’ve had some really good feedback, especially on one that was about the kind of launch stats and the webinars. So yeah, I love, love, love hearing back from you. So I really, really appreciate you listening and I know that our time is super valuable.
So I try and always bring to you things that will either make you think or inspire you. or that will give you some just straight up strategies to help your business go further. This week I have an interview with the very lovely April Martin. I was very fortunate to be on April’s podcast a while back and we had such a cool conversation about marketing because April has spent her entire career exploring all the ins and outs of agency life.
Uh, she’s a believer that learning never stops and experiences we amass, the better we’re able to solve many of life’s challenges. So she has basically got a design and an [00:03:00] MBA in business foundation has spent years working in agencies from branding to design. So she knows lots about marketing. So it was actually really cool when I went on her episode to geek out about marketing, because obviously that is my bag.
And on this episode, April brings to us the conversation about personal brand and she sets a really interesting question straight off the bat of what is the difference between a personal brand and a persona and which one do you have? And what we kind of delve into, which you’ll get from the episode, is that basically, are we showing up authentically us, or are we showing up in a persona that we think the internet wants to get from us?
We talk about the fact of, like, there is only one Gary Vee, but many, many, many people try and take on his persona, because, and it makes perfect sense, and I have such empathy for myself and other people who have done this, because I know I have. You look at someone in your industry, you think this [00:04:00] works for them.
Maybe I need to show up doing more of these things or behaving more of this way. So how do we know when it’s us or when it’s actually a persona? So, and how do we use that authenticity and what even is authenticity? We talked briefly about actually what that looks like and how that can show up and how maybe some of the authenticity isn’t what you think it might be.
And are you showing up as your authentic self? It’s a really cool conversation. I love chatting with April. She’s such a lovely lady, and I’m sure you are going to get a lot from this episode. So without further ado, here is the lovely April. April, welcome to the podcast.
pril: Thank you so much, Teresa. I’m so happy to be here and can’t wait to get into this discussion.
Teresa:
I am really happy to have you on. I came on your podcast a while back, and we loved the conversation. We had a whole conversation before we did the podcast swap, and it was just, it’s so lovely connecting with you again. So you just said something, we were chatting before we got on about what we’re going to be talking about today, and [00:05:00] I’m going to jump straight in with something you just said.
You said that people think they have a personal brand, and what some people have is a persona.
April:
Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.
Teresa:
Let’s start there. What is the difference? How do I know which one of them I’ve got?
April:
Yes, we’re going to go right at it today. I love it. Yeah, so Anne and I have this philosophy around personal brands and we have a whole structure which I’m sure we’ll get into on how to identify yours.
But a big reason that we’ve done so much of this work is because of what you just said. People think that they have a personal brand and They’re managing it effectively and authentically, but what they truly have is a persona and a persona is highly contrived. It’s something that people create with good intention, right?
But they put it out into the world in the way that they want to quote unquote show up. And so it’s things like, you know, we always talk about people’s Instagram page, right? Life looks so beautiful and [00:06:00] perfect on their Instagram page, yet it might be a shit show behind the scenes, right?
Teresa:
Possibly every time, to be honest.
April:
Yes, yes. So it’s things like that, where you’re creating what you think is authentic to you, but really what you’re doing is creating a way of showing up and it’s gotten so much worse because of all the channels that we’re on. So then people create different personas based on different channels and platforms.
And so then it’s, it becomes even less connected to who you are as a human being.
Teresa:
Okay. So there’s a couple of things you said straight off the bat there that. And it’s making me think. So I want to touch on quickly the different platforms, different personas. I totally hear what you’re saying with that.
And funnily enough, I’ve had a conversation on this podcast with someone who’s talked about there could be a more fun side of me on TikTok. I’m not on TikTok. I’m not going on TikTok, but like, because TikTok is more fun, whereas like the more serious conversations go on LinkedIn. So when you [00:07:00] And this is a very sweeping statement, but are you saying then that we shouldn’t be tailoring us to the platforms?
April:
So I think there is a right and a wrong way to do it. So as we talk about personal brand, like the reason that we feel it’s so fundamentally important is because people look out at the world, right? And they say, I want that. I want that life. I want that job. I want person. Right. And so then. I think the personas come into play when they’re like, okay, well, I don’t know how to get there.
So I’m going to look around to see who else is there and how people are acting. And then I’m going to model that behavior, kind of the fake it till you make it perspective. And that’s where it gets into trouble when you’re doing that based on channel instead of doing the work to develop your personal brand and identify it for yourself and then start managing through that.
Because actually, I think you should show up different on LinkedIn than you would on TikTok Right? Yeah. Those are totally different audiences, different reasons. People are on there. I mean, we have people on our podcast all the time who are like, [00:08:00] my Instagram is my personal life and my LinkedIn is my professional life.
And so come find me on LinkedIn, right? There’s all of those wonderful reasons for showing up differently on those platforms. Where it falls apart is when you don’t do the hard work to say, who am I truly at my core? And how am I going to put that to work for me instead of I don’t know how to get to where I want to go.
So who’s doing what I want to do? I’m going to go try to be like them.
Teresa:
And that is such a, like you hit the nail right on the head there. That is exactly what people do. That is what I’ve been guilty of in the past. Like how would they showing up? What are they doing? I need to do something similar. The other thing that you said, which.
Like, so this is where I’m like, okay, so this is going to be really interesting to dig into this bit. You are so right. We paint a picture on social media. We paint this beautiful picture of look how amazing our life is and look at the things I get to do and look at all that. And it’s not that that isn’t real.
Okay. So one of the things I shared very [00:09:00] recently was the fact that this year we I’ve travel is a big thing for me. And this year we’ve been to Nashville, Tokyo, the Philippines, and Canada.
April:
Amazing.
Teresa:
And like adding it was, they were all phenomenal. So it’s not a lie. That is my life. However, how do you, and I, we’re obviously going to get into the personal brand bit in more detail, but how, what’s the difference between showing up authentically and airing your dirty laundry on social media?
Because like, People don’t, they think they want to see the messiness and they think they want to see the real life. I don’t think, I don’t want to share it. And I don’t think people do want to see it. I think like getting on and, and I getting on and sobbing on Instagram, but this is the other thing, right?
That’s not true either. So we were having this conversation with my coach ages ago when she’s like, people think authenticity and vulnerability is [00:10:00] crying on social media. No. No one is being authentic if they suddenly are sobbing and go, oh, hang on a minute, let me just get my phone and do my stories.
Like, that is not authentic. That is weird and bizarre and strange. But like, how is that balance of showing up as yourself, but showing up because there is a good version of ourselves that we want to show. It’s like, how do I know I’m doing it properly? Or how do I know I’m just going, look how amazing my life is, everybody.
And like, not really being the real me. This is a big hard question. Sorry.
April:
No, no, no, no. I mean, and it is, it’s a great question. I think, well, number one, I don’t think, I think people do on the, on the spectrum, they do more on the ends and that’s what we see as an authentic, right? So it’s like everything is sunshine and roses and perfect.
And I have the filters on my pictures and I’m only showing you the best shots and all of that. Then you have the ones that do what I call the bad behavior on social media, which is what you [00:11:00] call it, like the crying and the, you know, all of that kind of stuff. And I think what you said is the truth is that.
people are still choosing how they are showing up in those ways, but none of it is actually authentic to what’s going on. So the way that I think about it, and because I believe so wholeheartedly in personal brand, I think about when I post, if the people that are in my everyday in my world that see all the facets of my life, truly just as real life, not as good, not as bad, none of that, if they can see my voice showing up on social media.
And I work really hard for that. So I, I love actually when your moments pop up, right? Like last year at this time you were last, you know, like my, this is the season for my kid’s birthdays. Right. And so I get to see all the past ones and I see all, all of these. Um, But on there like I’m not trying to say like look at my kid.
They’re perfect. They’re the greatest thing ever I try to authentically put the things that we’re proud [00:12:00] of and my friends know like we talk about kindness in this house predominantly. So my message out there is about You know we’re proud of Nia because she’s kind and I want like i’m always using that as my filter like Are people gonna get on there and be like seriously that is nothing like what her life is like Are they gonna get on there and be like those are the bright moments of her life, but they’re exactly how their life is Because I’m just as quick to be like, it’s also hard, right?
And it’s all those things. So that, that’s more the filter, I think. But you have to do the personal brand work first in order to hit whatever note you’re trying to achieve on these platforms.
Teresa:
I think that’s a great filter though, because if I think about like my family and, and oddly enough, very recently I’ve had two family parties.
So I happen to see my family fairly often recently, like. you know, they, the, the person I am in front of them is the person I am on stories, is the person I am in on calls when I [00:13:00] am in business. Like, yes, my husband gets to see me without a face and makeup, but no one needs to see that. Not even he wants to see that.
Even I don’t want to see that. Like, so yes, but like, I will, this isn’t like, you know, I don’t dress like differently. I don’t act differently. I’m, I am the kind of person I am, but like you said, I am showing, you know, a, everybody is showing a curated version, like you said, and I think that is such a good point to make whether it’s, I show waltz and all that’s still curated or I show perfect that’s curated.
You are choosing to post something on a platform. None of this is just happening by chance. It’s like, so actually. You are choosing to do that. Okay. So how do I know whether I’ve got a personal brand or whether I’ve got a persona? Talk me through that whole thing about am I, have I got a personal brand?
What is a personal brand? That sort of thing.
April:
Yes. [00:14:00] So this is where I would say our framework comes in. Okay. So we start, so there’s, there’s four facets of your personal brand that we talk about. Characteristics. I’ll go through each one, but characteristics, appearance, behaviors, and actions. Okay. So your characteristics are inherently who you are as a person, right?
I’m extremely stubborn. I’m very loyal. I’m extraordinarily direct. I am very outgoing, right? Like those are just things about me that are me as a person. Yeah. My appearance is how those things show up. We cannot change our characteristics. And this is a controversial thing. When Ann and I get into this, people are like, what do you mean I can’t change?
And I’m like, if you’re a very direct person like me, I modulate my directness. I can’t not change that about myself. Otherwise, you were talking about before I’m showing up inauthentically then. Okay. So that’s characteristics. Appearance is how you show up. The things you can manage are your behaviors and actions.
And that’s what becomes the practice. So when we talk about putting your [00:15:00] personal brand to work for you, you first have to spend the time. And you know, we have a whole philosophy on this and we have episodes and people can go look at that. This is 30 minutes long winded. So I’ll just give you the basics here.
So those characteristics, you spend some time doing some exercises to really identify like five to six things that are just inherently me that show up regularly. And so you start to think through like. You know, how do I show up in conversations with my co workers, with my family, with my friends? Like, what are those things people have told me about myself time and again over the years, all the personality tests we take, right?
Like, there’s lots of indicators of those. But we tell people to nail down to five or six. Okay. And then the work on the other side is how are those going to work for you? So we get really granular and we say, all right, in the past week, identify three times when you showed up how you wanted to and three times when you didn’t and then tie it back to that.
So like, I’ll use the example, right? Like. And this is one of those vivid [00:16:00] memories in my mind of where I just failed. But I said, I’m like really outgoing. So COVID had ended. It was the first video shoot I was going to be on. I was so excited to be around people that I was like the golden retriever puppy.
Meanwhile, the six people that I was with are quiet. A little more introverted, a couple of them were super nervous still about COVID, right? So I had a really hard time connecting with them and it was like working against the whole time. Versus when I go in and I assess before I start acting, who am I talking to today?
What tone do they want from me? Again, I’m not being inauthentic. I’m actually being very intentional because I need my personal brand to work with theirs and I need to be able to have the conversation because if they’re not going to hear me or react to me in the way that I want, Then it’s all for not right.
When we go back to the social media piece, it’s like, I’m thinking about who I am as a [00:17:00] person and I’m choosing now on LinkedIn. Yes, I’m much more professional, but I’m pretty bold about the things that I say about my beliefs and, you know, business and those kinds of things. That’s the direct me showing up.
I do less of that on Instagram. It’s more about my family. It’s more about my life. Like I’m not trying to make that my platform for my, you know, position on things, right. So, but the characteristics, appearance, behaviors, and actions, and the appearance, we’re always asking people, like, we’re not just talking about physical appearance, right?
It’s part of it. Like you just said, I wear makeup. I do too. I wear makeup every day. I wear makeup to walk my dog. Because polish is one of the things that I want to communicate, right? I feel put together. I feel confident. I do it just as much for me as I do for everybody else.
Teresa:
A hundred percent.
April:
But it’s not just the physicality of it.
It’s like, do I show up in a room with confidence? Do I stand up straight? Do I command the audience, you know, or do I slink in quietly? And then I wonder why no one wants to hear my point of view. So I said a lot.
Teresa:
No. Yeah. And it’s also interesting. So like, first off, I don’t know that I’ve [00:18:00] ever actually thought what are my characteristics and what are the five or six that I’m bringing into it.
Now I think naturally some of that has happened, but I think what is really interesting then, and this is where it gets a bit tricky, or I think it’s tricky, so in certain environments I can show up as one way, but in other environments, I show up as another way. So for instance, I will often say I’m an extroverted introvert.
So you put me on stage, you put me in front of a camera, you put me on social media, and I am all the confidence, all the energy, all the things. You put me in a room full of people in a like networking situation. And I stand in the corner, I’m back against the wall. I just want to watch. And I am not the first person to come up to someone and introduce myself and have a conversation.
So like, that’s really interesting for me from a brand point of view, because people think I am [00:19:00] massively extroverted, which I can be. So then that seems inauthentic when I don’t do that when I’m in that kind of scenario.
April:
Well, and I think, like, we always say humans are, you know, a study in contradictions, right?
It’s not, it’s not so black and white. What we’re trying to do is get people to identify things that are fundamental to them, and then how to make them work for them. So, extroverted, introvert, that’s fine. That’s just one of the things of who you are. Now, in those situations, like, one of the things that, I do, because of my directness, I’ll just use that as an example, is if I see people kind of sit back, I will say, like, I know I’m quite direct.
If it’s too much, let me know. Right? Yeah. Whereas, like, with you, with the extroverted introvert, when, you know, people kind of are like, why are you acting like this? Like, finding yourself saying like, I know it’s so funny, right? I love the stage. I love a good stage.
Teresa:
How weird is this?
April:
I get in these situations and I really just don’t like it.
And I think that can be freeing for the other person. And [00:20:00] it’s also freeing for you to be able to, it’s all about the communication, right? And so instead of just ignoring that elephant in the room, part of this whole thing about managing your personal brand is like, identify it, be honest with yourself about who you are, and then also be honest about.
The things that go really well and the struggles that you have are those awkward moments with people. And how could you better manage that? Because you also need to honor the personal brand on the other side, right? Yes. So it’s also thinking through and noticing in those moments, right? I could have just continued on my way, right?
In that situation I gave about the video, I went and I walked myself around the block and I was like, knock it off. Like seriously told myself that. Knock it off. They’re not responding to this. Get yourself together and go back.
Teresa:
That is brilliant. I love having that conversation. Like, honestly, and I think this is the funny thing, like, when you are self aware, which you definitely are, I am, we can spot it quite quickly.
And we’re like, why are you doing that? Like, [00:21:00] seriously? And have those conversations with yourself. It’s so, it’s so, Funny, so funny. So, okay, another thing I want to say on the characteristics is you have a characteristic you’ve just talked about in terms of being very direct. Some people might see that characteristic in themselves as a negative, or they might say it’s positive.
It could be, every characteristic can be either way, I’m sure. So, Is it that we take the five and six characteristics that we really love or is it that we go actually these are the most strong or how do we pick them?
April:
Yeah, so we say right off the bat that characteristics are actually neither good nor bad.
But what society has taught us is instead of saying like, manage it. We say, well, you’re too direct. You need to pull back on that. So then in our heads, it’s like, it’s a negative when actually if you can just get to the point where you’re like, fundamentally, this is who I am. These are the tools in my toolbox.
I can’t change myself. Like I’m always like, [00:22:00] if you’re an extreme extrovert, you can’t go to bed at night and wake up and be an extreme introvert. That is not how people are. Right. Like you don’t fund them and you can. Modulate all of those things, but you don’t change inherently who you are. So the idea here is to identify those things and then put them to work for yourself.
But first you have to get in the mindset of like, it’s not good or bad. It’s a tool in my toolkit. It’s what I have to work with. It’s who I am. It’s what makes me, me. And there’s only one me. So I’m going to go and achieve whatever things I’m after. I need to put this to work for myself. Back to the early conversation.
I’m not trying to fake it till I make it or mirror somebody else’s personal brand. I need to figure out how to make mine work for me and then communicate it out to people. So then they start to learn what to expect. So when I have those conversations, because directness, my whole career, right? Early twenties, like people are like, April, you are so smart.
Like you said, you get it really quickly. You see things happening in rooms, but you have to realize other people don’t see those things. Literally don’t see those things. [00:23:00] So when you just charge ahead and you turn around and no one’s following you, that’s why. So like, Figure that out or else you’re never going to be a leader because They’re not going to come and follow you, right?
So those are the things that you have to learn. Like how do I make it work for me versus like people giving you the feedback? And I mean, in those situations, we’ve all had them, right? I went home the first time and I was like, screw those people. I don’t know. I don’t know. Right. You know, this, this is how I roll.
Yeah. Now it’s like, no, that’s, that’s not how this works. So. Yeah.
Teresa:
But also there’s the whole thing of like, I totally get, because as we’ve both said we’ve done before, where we look at someone else and go, Oh, okay, this works. This is how we should show up. Like that’s so, I honestly, as we’re talking, have this amazing amount of empathy for me, you, for everyone else that does this, because it makes perfect sense why we do it.
Cause it’s like, Oh, look, they’ve got this. So people love this about them. And sometimes, you know, Like, and I’d be interesting to get your take on this. [00:24:00] Sometimes I get lost in what is me and what like, and not, not what isn’t me, but like, Just, am I showing up as me truly, authentically, or is this an act? I almost have to, not even an act that’s made.
Sounds like it’s made up. It’s not. But am I really, is this really me? Is what I’m trying to say? Like are these genuinely my characteristics or have I have I been so good at bringing them on over time that now I’ve not realized whether they’re mine or not. You know, it’s like, I know it sounds ridiculous, but.
I think because we do try and emulate people we like, like how many people have tried to be Gary V? Like Gary V’s got Gary V sewn up, like he’s got that sorted, but there are probably a million other people that are trying to be who he is, who are probably convinced that they are like that, that is them.
Yes. Like, it’s, this thing is such a minefield.
April:
Yes. Well, and I think it is, like, we naturally have people that we gravitate to, right? Complimentary personal brands or [00:25:00] characteristics that they just have that, you know, on those magnetic personalities like Gary Vee that we all know, although his can also be polarizing, you know. There’s.
Teresa:
Very much so.
April:
You know, there, there are, I think there are situations, and this is why this is important, where we get carried away or carried along. Yeah. Yeah. And Those are the ones I think where it can be perfectly fine and okay, right? Like, so I’ll give an example. I am used to being the one always running the ship, right?
I’m a major control freak. I entered my partnership with Anne in business five years ago. The first time that she, like, she said, I’m prying this client out of your cold, dead hands if I have to. It’s my turn to run this, right?
Teresa:
That is hilarious.
April:
So at first it was really hard because that was just something that was so ingrained in me.
I had practiced it over time and I had had the conversation that you said with myself about, like, what is that and why? You know, is that really who I am? Or did I just become that? And now I realize, like, [00:26:00] there are so many times when it makes so much more sense for her to be that person and me to be the quarterback on the projects.
Yeah. It’s infinitely better. I actually look back and I’m like, Oh, the reason I was led to curse because I was in a period of hindered growth where I was just doing the same. It was like square peg round hole, right? I just kept doing the same thing over and over again and it would work or it wouldn’t.
Um, so that’s why we say it’s also an ongoing thing, right? It’s like we do, we don’t fundamentally change, but we do change as we get older, we learn more, we get different circumstances. We want to try new things. We want to achieve new things like, you know, so it is, it’s just, it’s like monitoring it. And being honest with yourself to make sure you’re okay with how you showed up.
Like that goes back to that. If the people that know me best saw me in this situation, would they be like, What is she doing? Or would they be like,
Teresa:
Who the hell is she? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, so let’s just go through the four again. So characteristics, we kind of sewn up. Appearance, how do you define that against characteristics?[00:27:00]
What’s the, what’s the appearance part of it?
April:
Yeah. So the appearance is how do you. Physically, verbally as a whole person show up like it’s like the connected bridge to behaviors and actions. So it’s like when you do the assessment, it’s like, okay, if I’m really direct, I’m thinking about the time, like, how did I show up in that meeting?
How did I show up in that pitch? How did I show up on that phone call? As a whole person, that’s how I appear. And that’s where you’re then in the behaviors and actions. Those are the nuanced things, right? So if you’re like, I think I showed up too overly confident and something happened, then you go through with the behaviors and actions.
Okay. So what did I do? What was the moment when they stopped responding to me? You know, what, what was I talking to loud? Was I standing and everybody else was sitting? Did I come in like all disheveled because I was running late? To like, all of those things are what you’re, and then. It’s then going back.
Okay. Well, how on my best day, how do I appear as a whole? How am I showing up? Okay. What do I then need to change about those [00:28:00] behaviors and actions in order to make that work on an ongoing basis to honor who I am at the characteristic level?
Teresa:
Because this was then the next question I was going to ask. So, you know, your, your example of being direct is a really good one.
So, you know, you, you appear like really direct you. So then do you. Are we saying you change your behavior and change your actions or are we saying that’s just who you are and you’re showing up authentically or is it a varying of both of those things?
April:
It’s managing and modulating.
Teresa:
Okay.
April:
So, like I said, you know, if I can see that I’m coming on too direct with people, I back off, not in an inauthentic way, but because.
I know that there’s like, you know, the zero to 10 scale of April directness. Yes. And if they can’t take it now, the, the cutoff point though, like in our business, we say we are respectful, but [00:29:00] direct. If a client can’t hear the directness. Ann and I both share being direct. If they can’t handle the directness, they’re not the client for us.
Teresa:
They’re not for you.
April:
With relationships. I mean, it’s like I, I can’t, I’m never going to tell you what you want to hear. I’m never going to be your yes ma’am. I mean, I am known as the manager who says, before you ask the question, make sure you really want to hear the answer. That’s modulating and managing it, right?
I am educating the other person on this is who I am and how I operate. I don’t have to be a jerk about it. I certainly don’t want to do things that are shooting me in the foot, but I want, I, I’m not, I can’t change that about myself. Like I said, I can’t. And when I have tried to the point of inauthenticity, it goes over like a lead balloon, like, I mean, you can see it all over my face, right?
And there’s in those instances when I’ve tried to be passive or whatever, people are like, April, you’re awfully quiet. I know you have an opinion. What are you thinking? Right? Like people that know me know.
Teresa:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So how do you then, because when I think of personal brand, when I think others think of the personal brand, they instantly [00:30:00] go to the marketing, right?
So they instantly go to, you know, the posts I put on social media, the photos I have that, you know, how I show up on a podcast, like how I’m appearing on stage. Like. Where do we get from, and, and I guess this is the whole point because a persona that makes more sense. Yeah. Right. A persona you think of the image that you’re portraying everywhere, whereas the personal brand that you’ve just talked us through the characteristics, appearance, behaviors, and actions seems much deeper.
It seems much more grounded rather than just like a, here’s a pretty picture. So where do you then take that to the marketing side or where does it meet?
April:
Yes, so that’s where we say like when you do those exercises about when did it go well when did it not we start people like literally on a weekly basis to do the exercise over and over and over again, because we’re looking for patterns of behavior.
And then, like I think a bit it’s like a continuum right and then when [00:31:00] we go back into Hey, how am I going to refine my appearance so that those things stop happening. That’s when we get to like physically, how do I look, but also how do I walk in and how do I walk on stage? How do I shake hands with people?
What do I want showing up in that situation and how best do I do that for myself? There is nothing wrong with, you know, getting ready and looking great and all of that for whatever you’re doing. Right. Nothing wrong with that, but your personal brand should be a part of it. Right. Like I mentioned polish before.
I can’t tell you for how many years before I actually heard it, that people were like, you have an in scent and yet you’re put together. And like, I would be like, cause I don’t leave the house without showering. Like, you know, like.
Teresa:
Surely that’s a basic thing.
April:
Yeah. Like these are just things. Right. Like, but I, It took a while to be like, okay, what is that about myself?
And I realized like, I’m not like the trendy person. I don’t go and buy the latest fashion. I’m really short. So a lot of this stuff doesn’t work for me anyway. You [00:32:00] know, on a day where I have to be confident, it’s all black and it’s very polished. It’s tailored to fit me. My nails are always done. My makeup’s always done.
Like these are just things about who I, who I am. Right. I talk with my heat. If those things aren’t done, I don’t show up how I want. I’m not as effective because I’m not feeling good about what is coming out across the board. Physically, how I’m showing, you know, showing up all of those kinds of things.
When I go on stage and fights with me all the time, I desperately want to wear all black. And she’s like, the back screen is black. You cannot, you, we have to put something on, right?
Teresa:
You’re literally a floating head.
April:
I don’t do that, but like. If I had my choice that but because it’s just like I can control it.
It’s classic It’s just part of how I present myself. Now, people could look at that and be like, well, she wears all black, that’s a persona. No, that’s actually my personal brand coming to life because it makes me feel like I’m confident, I’m in control, like I’m not a loud color per you know, person. I’m a [00:33:00] loud person.
Teresa:
Yeah. So I’ve had a really interesting, like, development in my world. And I think, I think we touched upon it when you and I first had a conversation about beginning of 2023. And my audience noticed that I got sober and that was a massive part of my brand. Like it was huge and it was very authentic. Now, obviously.
It never showed the degree to what it was because obviously it was a problem and I wasn’t going to be going online absolutely drunk or anything like that, but I never hid it either, uh, because it was who I was. T, liked to drink. T. You know, it’s so funny being at this party, I saw people that hadn’t seen for ages, and obviously when you have, when you are online, you forget that not everyone looks at all your stuff like, yeah.
You know, you think you, you think you’re Beyonce and like, Oh, well, you don’t know this. And like someone was immediately talking to me and immediately bought champagne. And obviously they didn’t know. And I didn’t say anything. Cause I just thought this is a passing [00:34:00] conversation and they will go. Yeah. But like, that’s how much in my brand it was and how much in my life it was.
Okay. So, so obviously this massive thing happened, which I kept very quiet for a good year because I wanted to make sure that. I could actually maintain this and I was not in any place to share back to that whole, you know, no one needed to see me going through that like I didn’t need to see me going through that and I did.
So, so, you know, that was fine. But what it left me with is I didn’t know who the hell I was. Right. Like literally many things happened. First off, my business was always marketing my passion, my love, my zone of genius is marketing. And I went from the marketing into the mindset in my business and really started to push the mindset thing because I needed the mindset.
Okay. And because I was doing so much work, but again, no one really knew to the depth I was doing this work. So then. One of the things that has [00:35:00] come out of it, the other side, cause I still feel like I’m working at who the hell I am, but one thing that has come out is my love again for the marketing and actually how I am just going head in, like the mindset stuff is ace and I’m so glad I have those tools, but they’re in a bag over here ready if I need them, but strategic stuff, funnel stuff, sales, emails, all of that good stuff that is like head down.
I am all in. I love it. And I always did love it, but I took a little detour while I was getting better. And then there’s, like you said, down to the clothes. I look physically different. Now, how wild is this, right? So my iPhone, you know how it puts people in groups of their faces? Uh huh. Okay. Yes. It has me in two different groups.
April:
Seriously?
Teresa:
I am serious, right?
April:
Wow.
Teresa:
From about a year ago onwards, doesn’t recognize me as the same person. It is so wild. So like, even the way I dress now, I’m not [00:36:00] sure, like how I show up. It’s so, it’s so weird. So I think the reason I think I’m having such an interesting, hard conversation about this, it’s because part of me is like, I’m still not entirely sure who I am anymore.
Like, it’s so hard. And especially when. I don’t want to come across as inauthentic. I don’t want to come across as like, oh, she can’t make up her mind. Is she mindset or is she marketing? Is she does like, you know, like, is she this style or is she this style? Like, who is she trying to copy? Like, I don’t know.
I’m still working it out. Like, If you have any words of wisdom, then please share them. I think I need them.
April:
Well, I mean, I think it’s, it, it’s admitting this, right? So like going back to the self awareness piece that we talked about before, right? Like, you know, this is happening and going on for you. What we say about the personal brand and the characteristics and all that is to give tools to put in people’s hands to say, make it a more objective conversation with [00:37:00] yourself.
Take the pressure off. Like, and we all go through these moments, right? Like, I remember when I became a mom and I was like, all of a sudden, like, wow, I have a really big heart in there that I didn’t know.
Teresa:
Where was that all this time?
April:
They better serve me back there. So, we all go through these things, but it’s meant to Be in those types of instances, like a regrounding exercise, and that’s why I think it’s so important to analyze the situations as you’re going through them, because otherwise I think it’s too overwhelming.
Yeah. So, and we have folks that like, have never even thought about this at all, like, how am I showing up, how, like it’s brand new, right? It’s like, Oh, well, I thought I was, Checking the box on the list my manager gave me and we’re like, that’s not going to get you to where you ultimately go. That’s not, that’s not what we’re doing here.
And so I think spending time in the moments to be like, how did I feel coming out of that situation? Or I think refinding the marketing work is a step back toward figuring out your personal brand because you’re like, Oh, I love this again. It’s brought me new energy, all of [00:38:00] that. And then I think it’s digging into like, what is it about that that connects with me so wholly and doing it in kind of a one off way until it starts to show itself more rather than trying to sit down and be like, what are my top five characteristics?
Like, yeah. Yeah. Excuse me, we present it that way, but often we, we work it the other way. So if people really are have, can’t and are having a hard time and don’t have that self awareness, we go to like, okay, that exercise of like, all right, for the next 10 meetings. I want you to come out at the end of the day and give the high notes and the low notes and let’s have a conversation about those.
And it’s not like, like we were talking before, it’s not like beating yourself up or being, you know, overly positive or negative, but it’s like, it’s what, what did you feel? What was the reaction in the room? Like let’s play by play it so we can get to like, all right, if I want to go for that next promotion, or I want to be a big leader in my organization, I have to be able to manage how I show up.
Because everybody else’s perceptions are reality and it doesn’t [00:39:00] matter if I tell them, I have to actually be that in that room.
Teresa:
Yeah. Yeah. It’s so good. So I’m really conscious of your time. Yeah, we’ve gone over. I’ve probably gone longer than I thought. Really good. I’m really good at this. Well, this is the problem.
You and me both. That is one of my characteristics, which has been with me since a child. I talk too much. This is, I think there are a lot of people out there in business that will listen to this that think I’m not a personal brand. Okay, or I don’t need a personal brand. Before I give my thought on that, bearing in mind that they are probably selling the services that they do, what’s your thought with that?
April:
Everyone is a personal brand. Like, everyone has one. If you don’t define it for yourself, other people are out there defining it for you. And this is where that authenticity comes into play. Because if you are managing yourself as a personal brand and really being intentional about that, you’re creating the narrative.
If you’re not, [00:40:00] it’s little pockets of inconsistency all over the place. And that’s the reputation out there. So if you’re okay with that, okay. Yeah. But you know, if you’re not, then this is what the work you need to do.
Teresa:
That is such a good point that like you said, and I agree with you. I think everyone is a version of their own person.
They have a personal brand, whether it is they want to put themselves on a stage and speak or whether they want to be sitting quietly in their business, doing their thing, they still have a personal brand and therefore. giving consideration to how they’re showing up is so very important. And also I love the fact that you just said, if you don’t manage it, other people are going to.
So it’s really interesting. One of the things that I’ve talked about on the podcast before, which I’m about the fact that I’m an extroverted introvert is I worry because I haven’t, I’ve done every personality test going Oh, yeah. Enneagram 3, I’m an ENFJ and I am a celebrity [00:41:00] type in the Money Archetypes program.
Oh, I’ve done that one. Oh, it’s a really good one. You need to do that one. And with the celebrity and with like the three and all the others, looking good is is a part of it. Like I put a lot of emphasis on what people think of me and therefore that’s why I always want to look nice and and wear a lot of makeup and make some hairs and all that sort of jazz.
But sometimes my concern is because I want to look a certain way and then when I go out in public I’m so quiet is that people think I’m up my own arse. right? Like legit thing. I am bougie as hell stood in the corner. Like I’m too good to speak to you. I can’t speak to you. Right. Like, and that is so far from the truth because I love nothing more than speaking to people.
I’m just not very good at instigating it other than in very formal places where, I am. I have to show up as that. So for me, one of the things I say all the time is I’m not up my arse. I’m [00:42:00] actually very like friendly. I’m very relaxed. I’m very, I just really struggle in those situations because like you said, they’re going to make, they would make an assumption that, Oh, look how she comes across.
Look at what she puts up. She thinks she’s amazing. Yeah. And actually, if you stop and listen to me for five minutes, You will know that, you know, don’t get me wrong. I have a lot of confidence in what I do and how I show up with my business. But also I am very real and very normal and very like
April:
I’m just a person.
Teresa:
Yeah. Like, you know, and, and that’s not what I’m like at all. So yeah, it’s really, really funny. I love it. I love it. Okay, April, thank you. You have been awesome. I’ve loved this conversation. There are so many ways we could have taken this. So many things you could talk about. We talked about marketing and loads of things on your podcast, which was brilliant.
I love the fact that we went through just a quick recap, you know, persona or personal brand. I think that’s really fascinating. And I think it’s really going to make me go always. Am I definitely being me here or am I? So I tell you what, as I’m wrapping up just really quickly, I’m [00:43:00] going to start YouTube soon.
It’s been pushed back a little bit because we’ve been a bit busy, but it’s definitely on the list. So I’ve been watching a lot of YouTube, right? And already, I mean, I watch a lot of YouTube anyway, but I’ve been watching a lot of Jasmine Starr. And already I’m like, Oh, maybe I should have the setup of Jasmine Scott.
Like, no, Teresa, like, because I’m like, Oh, this is working for her. Like maybe I should rock up like that. No. So this is, Perfect timing for me. Very, very.
April:
See, that’s your brain working.
Teresa:
Exactly. Exactly. So love the fact persona of a personal brand. And then there’s four areas of your framework, characteristic appearance, behavior, and actions, and how it’s not that we’re trying to change or Mold the personal brand.
We’re just trying to go, okay, how is this showing up and how do I show up with this? So that was brilliant. Thank you so very much. And I am going to go and do some work and maybe dig in a bit more about who I now am and how I show up and everything. [00:44:00] But April, it’s been such a pleasure to have you on. If you want to come and find you, where do you hang out the most?
April:
Oh, yes. So from a business standpoint, I’m April Martini on LinkedIn. You can find me there. And then my email is april@forthright-people.com. So clearly I’m a talker like you and I’m always open to conversation and I love meeting new people. So definitely reach out.
Teresa:
I like one of my favorite things when I get on, I’m doing some calls at the moment for my new accelerator program to see if it’s a good fit with certain people and I just love the fact that they start talking about the business and I’m like, just tell me this and what about this?
And as this, I am so fascinated by stuff like that. I just need to get better at instigating those conversations in bigger places. Which, which like I said, I think people think I should be brilliant. Ah, it’s just not my thing. , I love it. April, thank you so much. It’s been an absolute pleasure to have you on.
April:
Yeah. Thank you, Teresa. It’s been awesome.
