How To Avoid Burnout and Prioritise Your Health As A Hyper-Achiever

Today’s episode of the podcast is an interview with Ailish Lucas, where we are talking all about why the old way of working through and hustling till you burnout doesn't work.

In this episode, Ailish shares her personal experiences of burnout and the strategies she now uses to prioritise her health, whilst still building a successful business.

Ailish is a Mindset + Business Coach who has extensive experience helping female entrepreneurs + high achievers train their brain to change their life, transform their business and make a life not just a living without getting burnout.



  1. How to identify the signs of burnout and prevent it from happening
  2. Using Positive Intelligence to reduce burnout and improve well-being
  3. How to manage personal and business challenges with a positive mindset

If you enjoyed this episode then please feel free to go and share it on your social media or head over to iTunes and give me a review, I would be so very grateful.



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Teresa: Hello and welcome to your dream business podcast. How are you doing? I am good, except I've just messed up about four takes of this episode, which is funny because I'm normally pretty good. I mean, you would think after 330, I think this is going to be 335 that I would actually know how to start a podcast, but apparently not. We're all learning.

Today. I have a lovely, lovely friend with me and I am so grateful that she's decided to join us on the podcast. Her name is Ailish Lucas. If you've been in my world, you'll know I talk about Ailish and she is a mindset and business coach who works with female entrepreneurs. She helps them to train their brain, change their life, transform their business and make a life not just for living, but without getting burnt out.

So today we're going to be talking about the key things about burning out. What is it? How do we know we're doing it? And how more importantly, do we stop it? Because apparently, She's written, when we are happy, we perform 13 percent better and when we are coached, our productivity increased by 66%. Is that true? Amazing. Welcome to the podcast, Ailish.

Ailish: Oh, thank you so much for having me.

Teresa: Thanks for putting up with my terrible starts to the vodka. Uh, you know, we've been here for about five minutes trying to start this podcast, but we're here now. We're doing it. And I am really glad to have you here.

Ailish: Oh, I'm so excited to be here. I love chatting with you.

Teresa: And well, this was the problem because we got on this call about 20 minutes ago and we just started chatting and then we're like, Oh God, I've got a podcast to record. But yes, Ailish has been in my life for some time and I'm very, very blessed to have Ailish as a friend. Because, When you are a coach, and Ailish knows this because she's a coach too, you, I spend so much of my time being the coach and being the expert.

And everybody needs not just a coach, but a peer group in which you can be honest. And Ailish is one of those for me, BizPaul's another one, Roseanna's another one. Like, I need that peer group that I can go, what am I doing? My life is falling apart. So that we don't do it when we're out in the world to the people we coach.

So I'm so grateful that I get to do that with you, Ailish. So let's kick off by, I just want to go back just a little bit and talk about what you not used to do, cause you still kind of do it, but like you didn't start off life as a coach for female entrepreneurs. So let's go back and start when you started your business.

Ailish: Yeah. So I have had quite a few iterations of my business. I would almost say I've looked multi passionate entrepreneur. I've had a theme throughout it, which has been the beauty industry. And I started off. Being a natural and organic beauty blogger, probably like 10 years ago, probably more than that actually.

And then I moved into doing and running online summits. Before the world and his wife decided to run online summit and know how to do it. And then I moved into my business, which was helping indie beauty brands to learn marketing and social media so they could grow their e commerce businesses.

And I've done that for like the past few years. And I've had some great successes with it, it was a successful business, it won loads of awards, some sponsored by Google, where they were the judge on it. And what I found throughout a lot of that was, I can give you all the marketing strategy in the world, but if your mindset isn't right, then you will never get the stuff done.

And what transpired through that was that I loved coaching one on one with my clients. I could help them with the marketing strategy, but that was like 20 percent of it. The most amount of time that I would spend with them would be on the mindset work, in terms of working through those limiting beliefs, dealing with any burnout that they had, dealing with any issues that would come up for them.

And I fell in love with that part of it because I think it was Tony Robbins or somebody very famously said, success is 80 percent mindset and 20 percent strategy. And I really fundamentally believe that. So what I did was then I went and retrained whilst I was still doing my business. So I could get the best skills that I could possibly find and then be able to coach really effectively.

And what then transpired was my new business, which is coaching female entrepreneurs. It's not necessarily new, it's, it's definitely a few years old, but fully stepping into that role. now help incredible women to be able to break through those limiting beliefs and to be able to fulfill that true potential for success and happiness without burning out.

And that's where I feel my true calling is. And I'm just really excited to do it now. The reason burnout is in that is because it's really common for female entrepreneurs to burn out. I had a very sustained period of burnout because I had lots of personal things going on, as well as like trying to run my business, as well as all of that through COVID.

And it's, it's just really common for that to happen. I want to make sure that my clients can have this sustained success and that sustained growth without the burnout. It's really, really important to me and to them.

Teresa: Yeah. Yeah. So let's just touch on the burnout thing, because I think, and obviously I've known you throughout that whole time.

And I, like, I think in the early days, there was a few, few things that you were like, maybe I'm burning out, maybe this is happening, but I think lots of people don't realize, A, what burnout is and B, that they're in it when they're in it. So talk a bit about what is burnout, because it's a term that everyone uses, but, and I think people are, yeah, I'm burning, I think I'll burn out, I've got to be careful, but I don't think anybody knows what they actually mean by it.

Ailish: Yeah, yeah, it's so true. And there's a, there's a very big difference between needing a bit of a rest where people are like, Oh, I'm burnt out. Going for a walk or having a couple of days off like mental health days or having a good sleep will cure so then you're back to your bright bubbly self the next day.

Burnout is a lot deeper than that and it can be a physical type of burnout, it can be a mental type of burnout, it can be a spiritual type of burnout, it can be an emotional type of burnout, so there's four different types really. And what that means is you tend to be, depending on what area you feel most burnt out in, say for example it's physical, that means that you've got no energy in your body consistently over a period of time compared to what you previously did.

Like if you think back to the time when you were happy, happiest with your most energy and then compare it to now and how long have you been feeling that for, then you can start to gauge a little bit where you're at. Say for example, with, uh, burnout from a mental perspective, if you've got your business and you've had lots of success with it in the past, and now you're looking at taking that next step up into a, a, another level to push it, but you don't have that excitement, you don't have that energy to go right, okay.

Like this, these strategies worked in the past and I know if I just double down on them, I can go a bit further. But you're just like, oh, you're finding the negatives in it rather than remembering all the positives. But consistently, because we know that entrepreneurship is a complete roller coaster all the time.

Teresa: This is what something I was going to say and thinking about, like, sometimes we just, I'm not going to say can't be bothered because it's deeper than that. But sometimes we're just like, no, I haven't got the energy for this. I don't want to do it. And how do we know when we need to kick up the ass? And how do we know when We genuinely need to go “Now I need to take that rest.” Like this morning I was telling Ailish that I was so proud I did yoga again. And, and in fact, this is the first time I've shared that I was doing yoga and only because by the time this comes out, I don't know whether I'll still be doing it. I really hope so, but I've done it for 10 days in a row and I didn't want to do it this morning.

And in, as I sat in bed, like, cause I'd already done my meditation. And the next thing is I get up and I go and put my face in ice water. not entirely sure why, but I'm doing it. There are reasons. But anyway, and then I do yoga and I was like, I think I'm tired. I think I need to listen to my body today. And my body is telling me, because there's that kind of intuitive bit of listening to ourselves and being kind to ourselves.

But then sometimes we just need to go stop your excuse, just get on and do it. And that, I think that's a hard thing to know which one of those things you do.

Ailish: Yeah, it is. Because. The narrative that we have heard previously in the online space has been hustle until you die, then, and then hustle some more. And then the reaction to that was, no, actually you need to stop and listen to your body and so you don't get burnt out.

And now what we're having is this confusion between, well, we know if we want a successful business, we have to work. We've got to put that work in, but also we don't want to do it to the level where we have nothing left for our personal life. We have nothing left for our relationships, for our kids, for fun, for creativity, for health, because health underpins everything.

So where is that balance for us? And I think this is about checking in with ourselves and There's, there's a training that I've done and I coach my clients through called positive intelligence, which T, I know you've trained them as well. Yeah, and what that tends to do is talk about your saboteurs. And we have these different types, we have 10 different types of saboteurs, like everybody has varying degrees of some.

And on the flip side of that, we have our SAGE responses. Now, with our saboteurs, just to give you an example, we have different ones like, say, People Pleaser, or Hyper Achiever, or Victim, or Avoider. And if we say we choose Hyper Achiever, because I know T, you and I are both in that category, and a lot of entrepreneurs are.

We tend to flip flop between I have to hustle or die, and I'm going to work really, really hard, and I'm going to put in all the hours until I'm then so exhausted that I then need to stop for a couple of weeks and my motivation goes down, or we're, or then we end up flipping to the other side, which is like, I'm just not going to do anything.

It's about just checking in with ourselves going, okay, and I, again, I'll draw from another therapy called internal family systems, which I'm very, very passionate about and positive intelligence has with severe and it's all quite similar. Now, when we are on this entrepreneurial journey in this roller coaster, what tends to happen is particularly we say with hyper achievers, we go all in and we, we believe our success is dependent on how hard we work.

And, and whilst it is, in a certain respect, like don't get me wrong, you do have to work hard. It's also about, not identifying that our self worth is connected not only with our net worth, but also with how hard we work. And so in that moment, if we're like, I, I have to be really busy.

I have to do all of these things. And otherwise I am not going to be successful. It's like, okay, well, let's just break this down. There's a little part of me that says this thing. But then there's also a, there's also another part of me that can say, yes, we're going to work really hard and we're also going to enjoy our life whilst we do it.

And it's about asking yourself those better questions. Now I know that's sometimes a little bit of a cliche, but when we can ask ourselves better questions, we get better answers. We can be more consistent with how we show up in the world. Therefore, our results start to improve because of our consistency.

Now, I do have funny thing with consistency and discipline. I think they are two words that are very, very steeped in patriarchy. So I tend to flip them and use the word devotion instead. So it's like, because when we start to use the word devotion, it's like, okay, I'm devoted to myself and my health, but then I'm also devoted to my mission and my business.

So how am I going to show up for those people? Because let's not make it about me all the time. We're, we're making it about those people that we can help. Cause that's why we're in business in the first place. If you're If you're not in it to make a quick buck, which I know most of your audience are.

Teresa: Then like, you know, I think we'd all love to, that'd be ace if we could just get rich quick.

However, we're all pretty much sussed that this isn't going to happen. And it does take a bit of work. And I think that's the thing, like, it's like when we talk about the seasons of life, some seasons in your business, you are going to have to work your bum off, like, there's no doubt about it. I am in a season of my business at the moment from January 24 to March, probably into April 24.

I am stacked like I am trying to achieve some huge things. I'm trying to do some very exciting projects, but that's the thing. And as I just said, the word, I know I'm working my bum off at the moment and it is taking a lot of work. However, I am very excited about what I'm doing. And I know this is a season that I'm in come April, May, June, That will start to quieten down maybe, or maybe I won't feel like it.

Maybe I'll just keep going and be like, where's the next big project? So I think it's, I think sometimes because there, the use of the word hustle has been associated with a, like, you've gotta kill yourself and everyone's got the same 24 hours in the day and Beyonce does this, this, this, like. you know, and like Tony Robbins has talked for an, and I go in and out of liking and not liking Tony if I'm honest.

There are some things that I really do like, and I do think he's really motivating about and other things I think, Ooh, like just jars with me a little bit, but like, I remember hearing his story and he's like, I used to have four hours sleep. I would do this now do this. And almost to the point of, if you're not doing that, then you don't deserve that success in that business.

So I think. I think sometimes because we're so anti the word hustle or so what's been attached to the word hustle, we almost then go, Oh no, if I'm not taking every afternoon off to meditate and do yoga or lunch with the girls, like, no, no, sometimes we do have to work hard.

Ailish: Yeah, and I'd like to also preface that with, let's just nip back there for a second.

You say, I don't know whether this is on the podcast or just before, but you wake up at 6am, you do your meditation, you've also been doing, you're on your yoga journey, and those are the things that are balancing them working really hard, because What if you don't have your health, you don't have anything.

Let's just start with that. Like, I feel like a lot of us tend to particularly hyperachievers tend to work really, really hard, particularly, say, for example, like we're in a season of working really hard, or you might just carry on. It's like if we don't then pay attention to what's going on with our health first and foremost, then you might be able to get a really successful business.

But at what cost? Yes, and this is where I'm not saying that you need to like meditate for two hours and then exercise for two hours and make sure you're only ever eating vegetables and that's it, but we do need to look at our health because otherwise we then spend like I'll take myself for an example.

I hyper achieved in my business. I was providing an immense amount of support personally, uh, and in my personal lives, uh, with a particularly challenging situation over a consistent period of time. And what then happened was, I think it was January 2022, I was like, I can't do this anymore. And it took me a year to be able to, probably a little bit over that, to then be able to go, actually, I feel like my normal self again.

And I had to go back to basics. Like I went to a functional medicine practitioner. I had to go back to all of the basic practices, like the yoga, like meditation, like the journaling therapy, as well as coaching to see what was going to work for me so I could then feel better. And the, the result is I'm, I'm back there again.

But if, if you're that hyper-achiever and you keep going and going and going, then you might end up having like a year, a year and a half where you're like, I can't do it anymore. I mean, you're missing out on that year and a half. Whereas if you just put some intention into it, where you're like, actually. I, I want to work hard because I enjoy it and I love it, but also I need to pay attention to my health and I need to pay attention to all the other pieces of the pie because they are what make life interesting.

Yeah. And they, and that's where you fulfill your true potential, because if you pour all the water into one cup and the rest of them are empty, then by the time you come out the other side and realize actually all of my water's in this one cup, everything and everything else is like awful, then you're, you, again, you've just missed out on the, the fruit of life.

Teresa: But so we had Roseanna on, who is another dear friend of ours, a few weeks ago and, and obviously talked a lot about her health and the journey that she went through. And I know she would almost, you know, talk about it. I'm always so cautious when I talk about these things, but she would almost describe this way.

It's like the world's made her stop. The universe made her stop. Like, and that's what will happen. Whether you believe in the universe or the whatever it is, or whether it's just physically your body will go, no, we're done And sometimes that happens in. like, you know, over a period of time and then you're just, your brain doesn't want to work and it's not a physical thing.

Sometimes that's a physical thing. I remember my mum died and running up to her death and her, and her death, like it was a lot of work, but I was really consciously, and I was still working. And I remember the day after she died, I had a call booked in and I tried to, I said to the person, yeah, no, I'm fine.

And I genuinely believed I was fine. And then my sister called me and said, I need you here at the house. Like, I can't cope with this. So I had to cancel, but I was going to go and do that call the day after my mum died. Like, so I was still going. And then of course I was dealing with my dad. I was dealing with all the house.

We were dealing with the funeral, like, cause we just let my dad step out of it all. And literally, I don't know, a couple of weeks after my mum died. I had an appendicitis and ended up in hospital and couldn't do a thing. And like, you know, everybody that I speak to that likes the spiritual side of conversation, they were like, you had to stop.

It made you stop. And it did. And I think that was like a fairly quick, short thing. But the truth is sometimes we can go into a fog or into a thing where our brain goes, I can't do this anymore. And it can last ages. And the other thing, and, and, you know, I know you and I, we're gonna have to be really careful because we could talk about mindset and stuff for hours.

But the other thing is, when you go into that, if you're not aware of yourself and your mind, and you've not been paying attention to yourself, and that's the thing, what might, you know, when you think about mindset, that's all it is. It's slowing yourself down and paying attention to yourself. then what happens is you drop into that and you don't do anything, but then this whole shame cycle starts where you're like, Oh my God, I'm useless.

I need to do these things. And then you beat yourself up and then you try and do it again. And then you beat yourself up. And it just like, It's just so destructive, so destructive.

Ailish: And it can be, if you don't have the right tools, and this is where we come back to the intention of when you think about your business, don't just think about the strategy, also think about the mindset, because you don't know when this is going to start to happen.

Like those thoughts start to ruminate normally at the beginning. of the journey. Yes, there's a lot of sears and anxiety but you're also heightened with excitement and you're ready to learn and you're ready to go. Once you get down the route of where we are, we've been in business for quite a while now, the sheen can start to wear off and it can sometimes feel like you're almost trudging through mud or pushing something up a hill that just almost seems impossible sometimes because you don't have the same amount of energy.

And yet if you can be intentional about making sure you've got the right tools for you in place that actually work. Now don't get me wrong, I love the woo, I'm, I'm, I'm really, really into that. But also from a positive intelligence side, that is based off four different psychologies.

Teresa: You gotta love the science.

Ailish: Yeah, it's the science.

Teresa: I always love the science.

Ailish: Yeah, the I, I know that we could put your brain under an fMRI machine at the beginning of six weeks and then the end of the six weeks and if you stuck to the positive intelligence program you'll have atrophy or a decrease in the left hand side of your brain and a growth in the right hand side of your brain where your sage mindset is.

Now the atrophy in the left hand side of the brain is where your saboteurs tend to be. And those limiting beliefs that tend to hold you back. So, and I know that that is 15 minutes a day that you have to do it for. It's based through an app. And then we have like coaching calls as well, depending on what program you're on.

And I have taken psycho, a psychoanalyst through it. I've taken business owners through it. I have taken career women through it. And every single time when they have stopped to it, what they have said is it has been life changing. Yeah. And that's the key thing for me, because if I take, for example, a couple of clients who are business owners, then when we started at the beginning of the program, they had said one particular thing where they were like, okay, like, I feel like I'm heading towards burnout, like the business is doing really well, we're at like 50k per month and we want to grow it to 90k per month and like, okay, great.

And then what then happened was over the course of those seven weeks, and then our longer term clients, they found that they were not only holding themselves back in lots of different ways, which we then work through, their relationship with each other, because they both work together, vastly improved.

their communication skills vastly improved, they boosted productivity, they started to make better, more riskier decisions in the business to be able to grow it to where it wanted to go, their personal relationships with their partners improved, their relationships with their children improved vastly, and their health started to improve.

And it's just like, it's almost, it's a no brainer for me when I speak to people, I'm like, why wouldn't you be doing it? Because if you can have improvements in all of these things by 15 minutes per day. Yeah. And you then be, you can reduce burnout significantly through that because what we've seen is well being vastly increases when you do positive intelligence as well, but you, you can be in it for the long call and you can check yourself before you wreck yourself.

Yeah. And that's the, that's the key thing, isn't it?

Teresa: The funny thing is that is so true, like that is an actual proper good statement, but it just sounds flippin hilarious. It just sounds like you're about to busted to some rock Ailish, and just, I love it.

Ailish: Well, it feels like, give me a glass of wine and in a few months, I will say what happened.

Teresa: So, I wrote down as you were talking there that people and I, when I say people, I mean me, because I have definitely been in this position.

I am very not in this now, but I, I know when I first started all this work, I was. People don't see when. We live in a world where basically we want the quick fix, the hack, the thing. What's the, the one email that I'm going to send that's going to get me loads of clients. What's the one thing that I can do on my website that makes me whatever.

And you and I, we both kind of followed a very similar journey in the fact of like, you know, I did marketing. We did the strategy. We knew all the good strategies to work. And then we both realized, hang on, this doesn't work on its own, but people often don't want to put the work into themselves, especially when.

They can't see the direct link or correlation to work right or to the business or to the outcomes they want in the business. So often people think like, so when I went back to Mary to be coached by her again on one of these, because obviously I've gone back and forth many, many times. And one of the last times I went to her and I was like, listen, Mary, I need to get my head in the game.

Like, it's not in the game. I'm not doing work. I'm not focused. I'm not this. And she isn't trying to. We're going to do embodiment work. And I nearly told her to do one in a not so polite way. I was like a petulant child. I was like, don't do embodiment work. This is so stupid. I want to work on this. And like, and I couldn't see it.

And bear in mind, this was like probably a year and a bit ago. This wasn't even, you know, five, 10 years ago, this was like fairly recently, even though I know that everything's connected with how we show up and how we are as a person is directly affecting how our business performs, whether we think is or not.

And, and I didn't want to do it because I don't want to do embodiment work. And yet now. I can see all the work we did and the difference that made. And it made a huge difference to me. Huge difference to how I show up. Huge difference to how I run my business and how I look after myself. But people don't want to, there's a couple of things.

I don't think they want to work on themselves because it feels indulgent, especially here in the UK. I think people feel like, well, you know, and I feel like a bit of a knob sometimes going, yeah, so I get up and I meditate and then I do my face ice bath thing. And then I do my yoga and then I do my journaling.

Like I, it just sounds so up my own backside, but the truth is those are the things that make The difference, like we can't, what is it that Mary's mom says? She says something like you can't fix your own mind with your own broken mind or something like that. Like, and basically if we are not in a good place, our business is never going to be.

But like I said, I think they, you know, working on that, they don't want to work on that. And then the other thing is they don't want to know that it takes time. And, and there's no end because there isn't because you and I have both done a ton of stuff. We're both qualified coaches. We both have gone through God knows how much coaching ourselves.

We both went through the PQ training like, and yet we still have to do the work constantly. Like so how would you encourage someone? Like, and I guess the other thing is, I agree, it's life changing, right? The stuff that I've done, the work that I've done, the stuff I've been through, boy, has my life changed.

And it has saved my life in lots of ways. How would you convince someone to even get started on this, even though we say it's life changing and they're like, yeah, okay.

Ailish: Uh, I wouldn't. I think it's a case if you have to be open minded enough and have a growth mindset to be able to enter into that conversation first, you can't coach somebody who is closed off to it and is just showing up for the sake of it.

It's a waste of my time and it's a waste of their time. So I wouldn't convince them. But I would say, just going back to your point, yes, we've done the work. Yes, it is ongoing, but you are not broken. And this is already fundamental right from the beginning. You are a whole person just because you have maybe some limiting beliefs that you want to work through does not mean that you can't break through them.

And yes, okay. There is an element of new level, new devil but Then you choose to work through it again. And I think when you are being coached or want or looking to be coached by somebody, you're normally at a period where you're like, okay, I'm at this level. I want to get to the next level. These things are coming up for me.

So let me invest in coaching. And And that's kind of where you can make really, really great progress. Then if you want to then carry on because you want to go to the next level again, that's really amazing. It's very, very different from therapy, which is then kind of looking back to make sense of the current times so that then you can potentially move forward.

Coaching is very much around choosing those goals and dealing with what's coming up right now. Yes, there might be a little bit of looking back. We do it a bit in positive intelligence where we tend to have a picture of our younger selves so that we can then create empathy and connect with that younger self.

But I think it's important to note that with coaching, we are looking at moving forward and helping you to move forward. Whereas with therapy, if you have issues that you feel are significant that you want to work through then that is kind of the right person for you. So I do think it's important knowing the difference between a therapist and a coach.

I've had both and that's very much the case. Yeah. Now with going back to what you were saying around People don't necessarily want to do the work. Also, they want the quick fix. I think once you get into the world of the online business, you will naturally come around to, okay, this strategy isn't working, or I'm not showing up in the way that I know I should.

Therefore, you then naturally start to question yourself and go, well, why am I doing this? Actually, I need somebody to help me with it. So it's kind of that natural evolution in a way. You start off right at the beginning thinking, yeah, let's go for this. Let's do it. Then you realize that there's a lot of things holding you back and you also become ingrained in this world where there is a lot of talk about self improvement.

There's a lot of talk about coaching that you then, I think you create that natural curiosity around it. but you have to be open to it in the first place. And you just have to find the right person for you as well, that, because you're building a relationship with that person, and you have to place a lot of trust in that person to be able to help you.

And if you have the trust that, yes, okay, I'm open to it, and yes, okay, I believe this could work, then that's half the battle, because you don't want somebody then coming and going, well, you need to prove yourself to me. And it's like, No, no, no, no, no, no. I'm here to facilitate you and help you and coach you, but you have to do the work as well.

So, yeah.

Teresa: I had a fascinating conversation yesterday with one of my one to one clients who had been with another coach, uh, last year, I think it was, and, uh, they very quickly realized they didn't like this other coach and actually tried to finish and get money back. And they just didn't. And it was really bad.

And this coach was really freaking expensive. And like, I'm saying that knowing what I charge, like, I mean, really expensive, like buy a nice car expensive. And basically they had been asked to create, they were doing something where they were going and speaking somewhere and they were like, what are you selling off the back and they said nothing.

Like I haven't got anything set up. I haven't got anything arranged. And they made them now. And even the person said to me, obviously they can't make me, but I was under such pressure that they were like, no, you've got to sell something. What are you going to sell? Put together, like put an idea together.

And it was literally days that they would then going to do this thing. So under absolute pressure, decided to put something together. And then the reason this came up is because this person is about to do something that it's similar that then she's launching something. All these emotions came out of like, I'm not gonna be able to do it.

I'm not gonna and then we talked back to this other time and they didn't sell any the thing they were trying to sell. They didn't sell any. And I was like, of course you didn't sell any. Like it makes the most perfect sense. You, you were forced into doing something you didn't want to do. You were out of total alignment, which is so important to this person.

You tried to create something really quick. You had no faith in it. You had no confidence in it. You were under pressure. And then you try to sell it. You could have had the biggest smile on your face, but the energy that you're putting off is not, Hey, come and do this thing. It's going to be amazing. And I'm really confident about it.

And therefore it's no wonder that A, no one bought because you weren't in it. So they weren't going to be in it and B that you're feeling like this now. But then of course, we took the two situations and very practically went through them and went right last time. You didn't have it set up. You were made to set it up.

You didn't have a program in place. You weren't confident about the program. You didn't have the time to prepare. You didn't do this. You didn't do this. They've already got one person signed up to this program already before they've even done the sale. Like everything's different, but it needed that. And again, like, I think mindset sometimes sounds like it's some magic, like woo thing that people do.

And it's not, it's just slowing her down and going, let's just talk about that a second. Tell me about that. Tell me about this. Like, and just making you have that kind of straight conversation in your head. But that's the thing when working with a coach, that is the, you know, that's the thing that gets us frustrated is, is there's someone out there saying they're a coach charging a lot of money for what they do, basically hammering someone to do something they don't want to do.

That's not the job of a coach. A coach doesn't do that. A coach is designed to make you feel, to give you high support, but high encouragement. Like I need to push you out of your comfort zone because you're not going to, but I also need to know you really well that when you tell me No, and you hit back that it's not because I need to push a bit harder and sometimes it might be, but you know, it's because actually, no, you've hit your limit or, or you need to be the decision of that.

You need to be the judge of that because at the end of the day, all we're doing is holding space and holding tools and like shining up mirrors. The person who's being coached is doing all the work, aren't they?

Ailish: Yeah, absolutely. I, there's a couple of things that popped into my head whilst you were speaking there.

The first thing is when we have, but we tend to live our lives based off what's happened in the past and therefore the past is always present. So if we think about this in terms of an analogy of we put, say if we break our leg and we put a plaster cast on it when we're say five or six or even 13 or even 20, but then we have not taken it off and we keep it on for the rest of our lives.

That's a little bit like what is happening in our brains. We, from previous experiences, from the way we've been brought up, from the childhood that we had, from, you know, for example, that previous business thing that happened, we then make it mean something and we keep with it. And unless we start to do, say, mindset work around that in terms of, well, it happened last time, it doesn't necessarily mean it's going to happen this time.

And we can pick that apart and we can start to let go of some of those thoughts and beliefs that we've had and create a new identity, then we will always keep repeating those same patterns and then we'll get stuck. Now that doesn't have to, again, like you said, sometimes it feels like mindset is this magical thing and there are some really basic tools, not just with positive intelligence, but if we look at say visualization, that's one way to be able to break that.

cycle that we are going through in terms of if we do not realize or we do not know what's going to happen because it's something new that we're doing and how we've got a really big fear of the unknown or launching that next offer. Well, our brain will make it feel really, really unsafe for us to do that until we then start to visualize it.

So if we can then visualize, well actually, I'm going to launch this offer, it's going to be in this way, I will have planned it all out in the X, Y, Z strategy, and I will feel really good doing it. I know that I need to connect with these people, and you just start to play with it in your mind with this little spell.

What that then does is it tells the brain, because it doesn't know the difference between real and what's made up in your head, that you're safe because we've already played out this act in our head, therefore we can then start to take the steps backwards to go, well that's what I now need to do first, and it feels safer in the body.

Because also going back to what you mentioned before about that somatic work and that embodiment work, like Our Body Keeps the Score. There's a very good book called Our Body Keeps the Score if anybody's interested in reading it. It's quite full on going but it's really, it's really a good read. But if we can, if we are then having this narrative in our head and we don't then break it through positive intelligence, visualization, journaling, something, and we then don't check in where in our bodies, what's going on.

And we have a conversation with our body as well. We can literally say like, What are you feeling now? And like, what do you need to grow? And this is the other key question, is you can talk about how you feel or you want, but we also then want to take you to that next level or to move through it. We don't just want to keep you stuck there.

So if you can say like, what do you need me to know right now? And then also, Okay, so how do we grow? That's when the magic starts to happen. So that's just another little journaling tip is if you're into journaling, but there are just some key things there. And this is why we, we use the word mindset and it's like, well, what does that actually mean?

And it's like just breaking through some of those sabotage, like sabotaging behaviors. So instead of self sabotage, you've got self mastery. Yeah. And we want that mastery over ourselves because we don't want our emotions coming in, hijacking the day and we're like, Oh, we feel really, we feel really unmotivated today.

Therefore we're not going to do anything.

Teresa: Yeah. And sometimes someone can come in and do those for you. Like, and that's where that self mastery is so important because you are going to come across things. And this is the other thing, right? There's no, my life will still continue to have problems. I will still continue to have to deal with issues.

I'm a mom. I have teenage children. They're a fricking nightmare. Like I, I run a business. That's also a nightmare at times. Like I know there are going to be things. But for me, and I'd be interested in your take whether it's similar, for me now, I can sometimes deal with it before it's happening, i. e. doing the proactive stuff of going, okay, well, what will I do if I feel like this?

What would I do this? Or when it happens, because some stuff literally comes and punches you in the face, whether you like it or not, my dad got cancer, like, you know, my mom died, like, no choice. I did not have any choice over those things. However, I can now very quickly either move myself through the whole thing faster, still have the moment of breakdown and melt down and going, Oh my God, what's happening?

And then start to recognize, okay, I'm doing this thing and whatever. I deal with it quicker and I come out of it feeling so much different. So even though these things are going to happen, I manage myself and the whole thing so much better. How do you find that's changed for you?

Ailish: Yeah, I, just before I go on to that question, mindset is essentially your ability to respond to life's challenges with a positive rather than a negative mindset.

If we think about it in terms of putting your hand on a hot stove, and going back to what you mentioned about responding and how quickly you can respond, the mindset work is how long can you keep your hand on that hot stove before you realize you're emotionally harming yourself and then you can take your hand off.

So that's the first thing I would say that. Secondly, I feel like when you do that work, you do get to respond a lot quicker. And yes, we all want to get like to Yoda like enlightenment where they're just like nothing, nothing bothers us. It's all, it's all good or bad depending on how you respond. And that's all you ever say.

And like people want to punch you in the face because you're so enlightened. Yeah. But it's true. It's like, It does seem like, and I'm not saying that I'm, I'm there, I very much get overwhelmed by things, I very much have my hand on that hot stove sometimes, but if it can be, if it's going to be for like, say, 10 15 minutes versus 10 15 hours or 10 15 days, then can you see the difference?

And that's where the mindset work comes in, because that capacity to respond to life's challenges, and they tend to be a lot of personal ones. So as you mentioned with your examples, and I have had examples of that as well, and yeah, and also business throws in its own, its own delights. Yeah. But it is that capacity to like, dust yourself down and get back up.

Now, that, now I do preface that with there is an element that you do need to work through the feelings. You can't, you can't just jump over them, you've got to, you've got to work through what you're going through. But you can do that depending on what the situation is and also have your business. Now there will be times, and I do, I really want to emphasize this because nobody told me a few years ago this piece of advice and I really wish I'd have heard it with your business.

If shit hits the fan with say something going on in your personal life, you can 100 percent pause your business. It will be there after the event and you can come back to it. You can build it up again. Now. I wish I'd have heard that because what I did, which is what caused the burnout was I kept going and I kept going and I kept going and I was like, I should be able to do this.

I should be able to build my business and deal with all of these personal issues. And they were very significant at the time. And they were very all encompassing. They were very all overwhelming. And like, this is like a lot of Greek that I was supporting people with then also dealing with my own. And.

it's, it's okay to stop. And I think that's really important. So going back to, it's, it depends where you're at with personal things and putting your hand on that hot stove and also say those saboteurs coming in, for example, with my hyper-achiever, I was like, no, I must keep going. I must keep going at all costs.

And it's like, well, actually, if I'd have taken this like a certain amount of time, whether that was a day, whether that was three days, even if that was a month or even a year, Like you can still then come back, but your health is your wealth. And that's the thing that we need to make sure that is okay. So that then you can do the mindset work, you can build your business sustainably.

And I think that's the key thing that we don't just want this up and down all the time, this roller coaster, because it is a roller coaster. Anyway, we want to see you moving upwards. in a way that also brings in joy and contentment and happiness, not just to do or die on the business. And that's it.

Teresa: Yeah. So like I said, I'm super conscious of time, but I want to touch on something you just said, I think, and you pretty much said it, but people often associate negative emotions and pain as a really bad thing. And they're not. they are alerting us to something that isn't right, doesn't feel right. If we didn't have pain, that hand on that stove would be destroyed.

Like we would no longer have a hand left. Like, so there's a reason for it. There's a reason we get angry. There's a reason we get frustrated and upset and annoyed. And feeling all those emotions. So that's the key thing in terms of when we talk about mindset, it's not talking about, Oh yeah, I'm all happy all the time.

Cause that is completely unnatural and a bit of a worry if that is the case. Now there's definitely people who look on the positive side of everything, but it doesn't mean they don't feel those emotions. You need to feel those emotions. You need to be in it, whether you like it or not. And believe me, I did not like it.

Like, you know, it took a lot of work for me to go, okay, yeah, no, how do I actually deal with them rather than stuff them down? But they're, they're bringing our attention. So we're never saying it's a case of always being happy or always being smiley or always seeing positive. It's not that things like.

you know, my dad getting cancer. It's not positive. Like now after it, you know, we can, I can maybe draw some positive that I think hard about it. Like he moved in with my sister. So there's a positive that he finally realized after his operation, his home was too big for him and it'd be better off. And I'm so much grateful about like, so there's a positive.

So I can pull some, but at the time, if I was like, this is such a great thing. I would look like a lunatic. So I think, I think those things are really important to remember that it's not about squashing them, getting rid of them, removing them. It's about acknowledging them because that's the first thing because normally we would or lots of us would squash it down with something we'd eat too much, drink too much, whatever the addiction might be.

So it's acknowledging them, feeling them, which doesn't feel nice, but has to be done and then managing them and, and working through them, which is what all these mindset tools and all these things are designed to do. And although I don't go through life and you don't go through life like smiling 24/7 and being like everything's rainbows and unicorns, I do feel very, well, I don't know what, like, there's an element of like pride or whole or, very level in the fact of I know I can deal with these emotions and I know I can work through these things and that I also know stuff is going to come and punch me in the face one day.

I've done hard things and I can do them again and I can work through them.

Ailish: Yeah because you felt that element of self trusting yourself. And this it eats that word trust that is really key in particular with growing a business online in particular with going out by yourself and it is hard to do because the world that we live in tends to reward the people that shout the loudest.

Yeah. So it's like, buy my product, otherwise you're going to fail. You need to do this, otherwise you're not, you're going to fail. You need to do X, Y, Z or you're going to fail. And it's like, well, no, like, let me check in with those emotions to go, right. Does this feel really exciting? Is it right for me?

Like, do I feel like I need this extra support? And so, so that's one thing. The second thing I would say is going back to those negative emotions, like, they're part of the human experience. Now, they stem back from when we were cavemen, and if we didn't, if we didn't listen to that, that fright that we had.

We would get eaten by a tiger. Now, we obviously, they're still very, very useful for us in terms of real threats that happen in the world. But what we've now gone on to is associating those feelings with emails coming in. And this is why we need to start to just kind of level ourselves and again, check ourselves before we wreck ourselves because like it's an email where we're not in a life or death situation here, but.

We can then, like you said, notice, pay attention to this feeling and then say, what's it telling me? How do I work through it? And the fourth bit is always really important. It's like, how do I work through that? And that could be getting support from a coach. That could be just journaling. That could be just actually having a word with yourself and going, Chill your beans, like we're okay, like let's bring this element of fun back into it because again with the online business world and when you come into business everyone's like it's really serious all the time and if you're not growing then that's awful and it's like no let's have some fun like and whatever that fun looks like to you whether that's dancing on Instagram and just kind of like taking the mick out of yourself a bit or whether that's just it like being like actually you know what I'm an entrepreneur.

I'm going to have the afternoon off and I'm going to go and treat myself to a really nice lunch. Screw you all. Because like, I'm gonna have a great time. So there is that gray zone there. So I think it's never black and white with it's mindset work and, or you're going to fail or it's strategy or you're going to fail.

It's like, it's this mix of what you feel that you need. And it goes back to that self trust, which you clearly have.

Teresa: Love it. Ailish, as I knew it would be awesome. Thank you. You know, we love this stuff. And, and I think. We love it because we've done it and it has been life changing, a hundred percent life changing.

So, Ailish, if people want to come and tell you how much they love you, where can they find you?

Ailish: Oh, yes, I would love to speak to you. If you're listening, I'd love to know what you thought of that episode. My Instagram is ailish.lucas, which is A I L I S H.L U C A S. And my website is

Teresa: Amazing. We will obviously link to that in the show notes. Alish, thank you so much. You have been a joy.

Ailish: You are. Thank you. It's been a joy.

Teresa: So there we go. That was the wonderful Ailish Lucas. I hope you got loads from that. Obviously, if you're looking for a coach, do go check out Ailish and myself. We're pretty good, if I do say so myself, and it has been life changing.

I don't say that with any exaggeration or any, uh, Kind of like flippancy. I genuinely mean that. And if you caught my last episode, you will start to understand why I mean that. So yes, do go and check out that last episode. If you didn't listen to that either. Right. I will leave you for another week and I will be back. Have a wonderful week and I will speak to you soon.