How to earn the money you deserve and desire with Natalie Bullen

Today’s episode of the podcast is an interview with Natalie Bullen. Natalie is a licensed financial advisor and money mindset coach. She is the owner of Unapologetic Wealth where she encourages her community to improve their relationship with money through working on their mindset and giving them the tools they need to step into the wealth they deserve and desire. We talk about money mindset, pricing mistakes to avoid, and how you can start charging your worth!




  • Employees have very few expenses.
  • Having a $100,000 salary is very different from having a business that turns over $100,000 per year.
  • Turnover is very different from actual gross profit.
  • In order to make any money having your own business – there are always going to be expenses.
  • You will hinder yourself by trying to do it all on your own just to save money!
  • If you have a business that can’t pay you – you have a liability.
  • You don’t know what your client can afford, they are strangers to you!
  • Don’t decide what someone else can and can’t afford.
  • We are not in business to please our clients or make solutions cost what they can afford. We are in business to grow our impact, influence, and income.
  • Why would you push someone into a solution that wastes BOTH of your time?
  • If you raise your rates, it will be easier to get clients because people know you are serious.
  • It is all about priorities and what is important to each person as to what they will be willing to spend more money on.
  • You need to offer the next level for your clients – so there is somewhere else they can go.
  • You don’t have to buy an Aston Martin if you’re wealthy!
  • Money is NOT evil.




Never assume someone can’t afford something you offer! You don’t know their priorities or income.




  • An introduction to Natalie 04:49
  • Money mindset 09:46
  • Pricing mistakes to avoid 17:01
  • It’s ok to charge your worth! 18:51
  • How to be confident charging more 34:25










Teresa: Hello and welcome to this episode of the podcast, how are you doing? So we are getting very close to the point in which I'm going to change the name of the podcast. So I wanted to make sure that you've got sort of plenty of heads up before we do it.

I think it's actually happening in two episodes time, um, that you'll get a new intro and outro. You'll get maybe slightly tweaked the way we do it. I haven't even decided yet if I'm totally honest. The list of things that I've got to do to get ready for the rebrand and the website is huge. So big. Also at the same time, I decided I might try a different email system because although I love Kajabi and it's brilliant because it does all of the stuff in one, uh, we're also creating a quiz and in order for the quiz to be really good and give you specific answers. I need an email system that can work a bit harder than the one that then Kajabi can do currently. So, uh, yeah, there's a lot on our plate this month. I am working the team very, very hard. Uh, they all being amazing and getting stuff done. So, um, it's been a busy, old time, but like I said, it's coming.

You don't need to do anything. You just make sure you're subscribed to the podcast because the podcast will stay subscribed. The name will just change for you. So hopefully you shouldn't lose me or anything like that, but make sure that you've hit that subscribe button wherever you listen. Okay. So this week we've got an interview and it's with the amazing Natalie Bullen.

We're so good. I can't even tell you, I loved this interview, but let me tell you a bit about Natalie first. So Natalie, through her work as a financial consultant business coach and banker, she discovered that the biggest hindrance to financial freedom is mindset totally. Realizing that many people's view of wealth is unattainable or they see as unattainable or something that's simply for those people. Natalie has an ambition to shift her perspective for everyone she meets by encouraging them to improve their relationship with money. Growing up in one of the poorest states in the country that Alabama native witnessed firsthand, how impact.

Uh, see, this is me trying to read again. I hate reading. How the impact of financial illiteracy. I can't read. I'm going to have to get some lessons in how to read and economic deprivation can have on a community determined not to be another statistics, Natalie worked tirelessly to establish herself as the go-to guru for all things finance.

And it was great. Actually, what I really particularly loved about this talk is Natalie's not just talking about the money from a mindset point of view. So she's not just going, you know, Manifest it, and that will come. She's also very practical and talks about some very practical things. So I really, really liked that.

I think I said last week on the podcast that she spoke for my events, that when the doors open again to the membership, all the past recordings and, and events are all up there, so you can see them all. But yeah, when I had her at the event, she was so good, so, so good. So I think you're going to love this episode and get lots from it.

So without further ado, here's the lovely Natalie.

So I am really excited today to welcome to the podcast the lovely Natalie Bullen. Natalie, how are you doing?

Natalie: I am well, thank you so much for asking, how are you?

Teresa: I am, I am good. Um, I was just saying before we go on I've been a busy week. I've been speaking and I'm just a little bit worn out. But I'll be fine.

I am all good. You have come on this call given me so much energy and don't you just love it when like, Um, in fact, I was talking about this just literally at this event about like some people you step into their energy and it's like, ‘Ooh, that's not nice.' And then some people, you step into their energy and it's like roof, like, so that's what I got when you came to the call.

So that's awesome. So Natalie, I'm excited about today's conversation, but before we get started on it, I start my podcast the same way every time, which I'm sure. Well for me, I feel like it bores my audience, but it's important. So can we start off by you telling my lovely audience who you are and how you got to do what you're doing today?

Natalie: Yes, I am Natalie Bullen, um, licensed financial advisor and lay mindset coach owner of Unapologetic Wealth. I have had an affinity towards money since my teenage years. I started my first business when I was nine years old, selling key chains at a uniform store in mobile, Alabama, where all public school children are required to wear uniforms.

And I learned that I knew something about money. It clicked for me in a way that it didn't easily click for others. And as I got older, I started to see how differently black people, especially women were treated when we didn't have money. And why the wealth gaps seem to be getting wider, even though America seemed to be getting wealthier, we are getting wealthier, but the country was getting wealthier.

So I went to undergrad and I got a business degree and it didn't solve any of those questions for me. And I got an MBA. And it didn't really solve a lot of questions for me either. And so, I said, you know what, I'm going to do something about, I'm going to start speaking on my free time. I'm going to volunteer.

And I did over 200 free financial literacy seminars at churches, universities, um, even homeless shelters when they were about to release people back out into new world where they're gonna be paying their rent again. How do you get back acclimated to having bills? And I guess it never dawned on me to monetize it because, you know, Patriarchy.

And eventually I say, you know, I'm going to strike out on my own. I'm going to coach people. And I was gonna coach them on financial literacy. So I had a workshop planned. It was, that'd be retirement plans for entrepreneurs. And I had flyers and citing. No one registered. Crickets for me with my energy. Can you believe it?

And so I boldly hopped in people's DMS and went, Hey, What are you come to know workshop? Like, why didn't you register? And they sheepishly told me one after another. ‘Natalie I don't have any money to retire.' My business barely even pays me nearly my, my business barely even makes any money. How could I, how could I save for retirement?

I was intimidated by you. You're so much further ahead than me and naively I would go, ‘Well if you run a business, how could you be broke? Why would you quit your job to run a business that doesn't pay you?' And I realized this is really common. It's really prevalent. The struggling artists, um, work for free, this bro marketing that tells you to give it all away and that people will pay you.

And I said, this is it. This is it. And, and I really got into towing with teaching people. This doesn't have to be the case. You got as much money as you want to. This is your business. Go out and make it happen. Right? And so giving people the tools to step into the wealth that they deserve and desire has come an elevated level of my financial literacy manager.

Teresa: I love that. Like, I love the fact that you identified something really young, but it was like in, you built in you, but, and also I love the fact and not that this is something to love, but that you went on a search to get, you know, to understand this better. And you went and did, you know your degree and your master's and, and yet it didn't solve any question or answer for you because of exactly the problem that it is, isn't it?

Natalie: Yeah, because there's not a. It's not a, an educational problem. It's socioeconomic. I would have needed to have gotten an entirely different degree. Business degrees only teach you how business is make more and more money by ever increasingly schemey tactics or clever tax strategies.

Teresa: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I love the fact that you did that.

And then you went out and did all these amazing workshops with people and then help people. And like that's in your DNA, that's in your blood, isn't it? Like, people don't, like I often talk about when people have a business. Like I worked with people who love what they do, because I don't want to work with someone who doesn't adore what they do.

Or yeah we all have bad days, but you know what I mean? That it drives some passion that they want to make a difference in whatever part of the world that they are in. Because that means a lot to me, rather than just someone saying, ‘Well, actually this is a good way of making money. I could probably do this.' Like it's got to come from that passion.

Hasn't it. And I love that, that your state, which is ACE. So. Let's talk about, and, and this is such a big, amazing subjects to talk about, and it's something that's new to me. Okay. So to give you like a little bit of a background and you know, my listeners might know this and I might have talked about it before, but I came from a fairly working class family.

My, both my parents worked, we never had money. Like we were never wealthy. We were probably the poor children in school. And. I didn't know, because I didn't know money mindset was even a thing. But when I started to discover and learn and look at this, I started to realize that, that my family and I had a very bad money mindset and we were, I was brought up with a bad money mindset, but I didn't realize the impact into which it would have in me and my business.

So the fact that you identified that these people have got their own businesses and they weren't doing, weren't bringing in the money. Did you see that that was just a money mindset thing? Or do you think, because obviously you come from a practical point of view with money as well, don't you, which is, you know, so is it just one thing or is it both?

Natalie: It's both it's money mindset, but it's also lack of business acumen.

We are taught to be employees and employees have fairy few costs. Sure they take taxes and social security and things like that. But in general, other than being in dress code and driving to work or riding public transportation, what is your cost as an employee? There really is none. So you get what's left, you get the salary that the company can afford to pay you after they paid all of their other expenses.

But we're shielded to that. What company have you ever worked for where you read the company's annual balance sheet?

Teresa: None.

Natalie: To know how their much their gross revenue, what was the gross revenue of any company you've ever worked for in your life?

Teresa: Wouldn't have a clue.

Natalie: No one does. So see, we're seeing the end result, a 70 pound or 80K year role or the $100,000 salary.

We're seeing that in number and trying to base our business on that number. Instead of the gross revenue number or the taxes or the insurance or the net profit and loss of the firm. See, we don't have that data. And if you worked for a publicly traded company, the data's out there, we are taught to look at, we wouldn't know what to do with it if we did.

Most people do not know how to read financial statements. So when they come into their own business, their first thought is, let me just replace my salary. But having a $100,000 salary is not the same as having a business that grows is $100,000 a year. You cannot conflate those two numbers. They're not the same.

And people don't realize the expense, how much money it costs to run a business, the website and the hosting, the coaches, the tax liability. You're used to your taxes being taken out of your paycheck when you're self-employed, you're responsible to pay the IRS and a miracle quarterly.

I've met entrepreneurs who weren't paying quarterly taxes because no one told them that they were supposed to. Right? And they get with me and find out that they'll 10, 20, 30 jade. If it's mindset, for sure. There's a mindset that gets pushed down on women as nurturers, that we should work for free.

That that makes us good people that we should help people. And that is helpful and nice. Oh, they should be nice when they don't meet. We should be nurturing and nice and helpful and, poor are apparently, and there's nobility in that somehow. But there's also lack of business acumen that makes a woman go, ‘Oh, I can coach someone for 50 bucks an hour because I made $25 an hour. So I'll just double it.'

If they knew all what went into the cost of their business, they would realize it's impossible for me to coach someone for 50 bucks an hour. So I do both right. I bring my financial literacy and my financial advisory services and I do a complete money assessment of financial review.

And then I, I let them know where they're doing great and I let them know where they should kind of watch. And then I let them know action steps. They must take it back to buying more life insurance or hiring an accountant. Right? A lot of times we don't know the difference. What's the difference between a CPA, a CFP and an EA.

And that's just this. So people get intimidated and they just hire no one. Right? That's the solution. I don't know. So I'll just do nothing. I empower them to make a decision and then we look at their mindset and their pricing. So. Now that you realize if you don't look at the money first, then I sound woo woo.

Oh, just charge more, just charge, more, charge your worth. It all, it all sounds contrived. But if I lay out your financial statements for you and show you how you're losing money this way, and you'll never be able to pay off your house or fund your retirement or retire your husband or pay for your kids' college.

Well, then raising prices is gonna lay and you're, you're listening to me now. It doesn't just found that like manifest your wealth. It sounds like here's a plan.

Teresa: There's a reason for it.

Natalie: Exactly.

Teresa: You've said so much in that I want to just like pick out a few key bits. So one thing that you said, I think, which is so like, I know I was this for sure was definitely the, this is what I earn, so this is what I want to make as a business owner.

So that. And I still think many business owners just look at turnover like, and don't you think we were chatting before we got on about, you know, some types of people in the business that don't resonate with us. And there are some people out there and my audience will know very well that I'm not a big fan of like, you know, and six figures in five minutes. But the thing is its turnover and they don't tell you the full picture.

So yeah, you could have a launch of something or other that, that brings you in six figures, but they might have spent five figures getting to that point. And therefore what's the point. And I think that's something that that's where the acumen comes in. Isn't it? That's where the, the knowledge of being a business owner and understanding the business, rather than just saying ‘Great, I've hit six figures.' Or ‘Great, I now bring in five grand a month.' it's got to work. Hasn't it with everything else.

Natalie: I agree. I think that's why it's important to get what people who are transparent. Um, Denise Duffield-Thomas is very transparent, she sends emails that break down all the numbers for her launch to let people know how much she spent and how much she made.

I will also say if you're expecting to make six to seven figures and not have any expenses that you shouldn't bill into business, there will be some expense, period. I don't care if you don't hire anybody, I don't care at some point you have to pay something and you hinder yourself trying to do it all yourself to save money.

I would rather have a business that makes $50,000 a month that has $20,000 a month in expenses that a business that makes 5,000 a month that has two ledger books and expenses, because I'm trying to bootstrap it all myself.

Teresa: Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, I think that's a really important thing to talk about.

The other thing that you said that I think. I'd really like us to hit on is the fact of angio, right? This is predominantly women that think like this, the fact of A. They benchmark their pricing based on, oh, well, this is what I earn as a salary. So actually I'll just charge this and B. That they feel like they can't or they shouldn't charge. They've got to be nice. They've got to be kind. They've got to not be ruthless, not be greedy.

And isn't it funny? The, the language that we use for male and female, when we talk about money is like a guy who charges his worth and goes out there and, and earns good money, we say earns good money he does well. A woman is like cutthroat or ruthless or a bitch or, you know what I mean? Like all these things that we laid.

Natalie: I've been called all of those things like it's and mean.

Teresa: Yes. Always. Yeah. They're not nice people because if they were nice, they wouldn't be charging. So how.

Natalie: Well, I am not nice. I just want to make that incredibly clear to your users that I am not a nice person.

And I think anyone who looks up the original definition of the word, nice, probably wouldn't want to be called that word.

Teresa: Okay. I'm going to, we're going to look at that. Like, let's just talk about that for a minute, because I know they will be going to like take a guest, like probably 90% of the people listening to this are thinking.

I can't charge that, or I can't increase my prices or they feel like that they, they don't want to be seen as greedy or money grabbing or like, so let's just talk to that a bit. If, if, if they're female like this, what kind of things do you talk about? What kind of things do you suggest to help people get more comfortable with the fact of it's okay to charge what you're worth?

Natalie: I would ask that person. Where is the root of that fear? Where does that fear come from? Say, you are an accountant and you have been dealing with clients who barely pay you. They don't pay on time. They don't pay their tax burden. They have you doing all this work. You're chasing behind them for documents.

And you're trying to do their profit and loss. You don't hear from them. They, they say they'd gone out of business, but then they come back next year. They didn't have a file for years. They're a problem client and you're charging them $500 a month and they are hemming and hawing about it because they only make 3000 a month.

And it was a bad month and her husband lost a job. It's always thumping. You got a dozen of clients like this, and you're about to pull your hair out. And your husband's trying to figure out why you haven't stepped in the money for your own taxes, because you're waiting on receivables. Your receivables are quite large and your business bank account is quite low and your clients are quite troublesome.

This is usually where I meet people. Your fear is that if you charge more, you won't have clients. I'll ask this. Do you have clients worth keeping now? What, what do you have now that you're clinging on to. If you have a business that can't pay you, you have a liability. Why are you clinging to a liability? If you have a business that's driving you crazy and putting a wedge between you and your spouse, why are you clinging to that so desperately?

If you have a business that only attracts broke people who can't pay you, why are you fighting so hard to keep that. That, that would be my first inclination. The truth is a lot of us are not wealthy. Right now, or maybe we grew up poor. And so what we're really saying is no other people can't afford it.

It's I can't afford it, or I wouldn't pay that. That's what we're really saying. It's a broke consciousness and we projected on the other people. I can't buy a hundred thousand dollar cars. If nobody buys a hundred thousand dollars cars. Rolls-Royce would beg to differ.

So I would ask them what, what money story were you taught, were you told that convinces you that what people will and won't pay. Two, you don't know your client. They're strangers. Try it again. Strangers. Teresa, you're beautiful. I don't know how much that artwork is behind you. I don't know how much that dress is you have wear. You have on a beautiful, you know, nice, smooth, silky eyeliner. Very nice. Well, eyeshadow, it could be Tom Ford for all I know.

You can follow the $300 eyeshadow palate. I don't know. I don't know. You could use Lemaire skincare, your skin's beautiful. I don't know. Right. Gives me the value of Neutrogena doesn't mean that's what everyone uses. And so how are we so arrogant as to convince ourselves that we know what strangers have and don't have, or the level with which they're willing to invest in themselves or how resourceful they are?

My first coach was 10,000 USD. My salary at the time was 49,000 us dollars and the business had made zero. It was a hard show. Okay. How do you think I would have felt if that coach would have said, ‘Oh, Natalie, you know, I have a coaching program that would help you tremendously, you know, skyrocket your business. But I know you're just a poor little personal banker. And so I won't offer it to you. That'd be mean, and me to offer you a $10,000 solution because I know you can't afford it. So I don't want to make you feel bad. It's almost like a charity.' When you think about it, you're really looking down on people and deciding for them what they deserve to have.

And no one wants to be treated like that. You wouldn't want to go to the Audi dealership and have somebody showing you the cheapest car on the lot, because they didn't think you could afford the nicest car on the lot. You would call that discriminatory. Why are we discriminating against people we claim in our niceness that we want to serve?

So step away from deciding what people can and can't afford. Target doesn't care if you can afford the groceries. They set the price at the price they need to be profitable. That's it. If you go forward. Great. If you can't, you may have to make another solution. We're not in business to please our client or to make solutions cost what they can afford.

We're in business to grow our impact, our influence, our income. That's it. That's why you're in business. So I would, I would challenge that person really do a deep dive. Why did you start this business? Was it to make people happy? Because if you're in it to make other people happy, you will probably make yourself unhappy in the process.

I won't be mad as hell if my business leaves me broke. I'm just going to tell you the truth. If I go to transfer my oldest drunk at the Monday night there, the business is closed.

Teresa: Like, you know, we need that. I just laughing, like, you know.

We need that tough talks sometimes because like. I'm just laughing.

Natalie: Unapologetic wealth is broke, we're closed.

Teresa: So sorry, but done. See you later. Bye. But you're right. Because you know, when I think about some of the members I've got right in my membership and literally, and I know if they listened to this, they know I'm thinking about them. Like they know, I know them that well, and they don't like charging for stuff.

They don't see the value in themselves. They don't, and it's like, or lots of people use the excuse. And I would say that I have some point of my audience don't they can't pay that money where, like you said, if I, we, we are very lucky. We have two very nice ID's and if I went into it, like, you know, the next time I go in and they go, here's a, here's a, this one I'd like, excuse me, like the guests, what I can afford.

And like you said, it's really insulting. Whereas we didn't feel like we're coming from that angle. We feel like we're coming from a kindness of like I'm being considerate and thoughtful. So that's why I don't want to put my prices up.

Natalie: Are you, are you being considerate by offering someone a service that is below what they actually need as a transformation?

Are you really being considerate by offering to help them when you resent them. If someone charges you an amount of money and you resent them for it, you've done them a disservice that's actually mean. Have you done people think about what people will say. I'm black, obviously. Maybe that's why I speaker too. I'm black and I'm American.

And in America we have things called HBC use, historically black colleges and universities. And they're from an era when unfortunately black people could not go to school owned by white people. So we had to create our own schools, which is an unfortunate part of the history of slavery and racism in the United States.

Well, even institutions still exist and they still attract black thing because even though now we could go to schools where there are non-black people. We aren't always welcomed there. And sometimes when you want to be with us then, so they still exist. Okay. And there's a stigma around these schools that they are as rigorous as white schools or that they aren't as challenging in the curriculum or that they don't produce as good a result.

Right. It's false, but it's how people feel. Similar to community colleges. You send your child to a two year school and try to pretend as though they didn't get the education of a four year school. Even if they finish at a four year university, oh, you sent your child to a lower university.

There is a stigma, right? Why would you intentionally stigmatize your client by giving them a lower value solution at a price they can afford? That's not really very useful. If you take that audit to the shop and it really needs a new engine, but instead they offer you with tune up because that's what you can afford.

They've actually harmed you because they've stepped you back, right. You're still going to need a new engine. You wasted money on a lower solution when you'll still need to pay for the real solution and they wasted your time. Your time is invaluable. You can't get it back. So why would you push someone into a solution that wastes both of your time?

Teresa: Oh, I love that. And I love that example with, like you said, taking your car in and they think they're doing your kindness and actually you're doing far from it. And, and I know this has been true for me. And my first coach was 15 thousand and I, I had a real panic attack about it. I have to say, but it meant I did the work.

I took it seriously. Like I knew I was stretching myself, but I did it for two reasons. One in my head, I was mentally putting myself at that max level already. Like whether I felt I was there or not, I was putting myself there. And then on the other side, It, it meant I worked hard for it because it was like, I am not going to waste this.

I'd had coaches in the past that had done like deals with me. So we swapped services. Didn't worked.

Natalie: Done the same. It's not that I hate a barter. If I barter, I pay your invoice, you pay mine, I sign your contract, you sign mine. I still want to have the painful feeling of typing in my credit card number.

Teresa: Yeah.

Natalie: But a flat barter. It doesn't work. Neither of you do work. That's typically what happens.

Teresa: Exactly. And funnily enough, you know, Good friend of mine, he pays me for stuff and I pay him for stuff. We both use each other's services, but we never not pay. And we pay exactly what we charge. So I don't expect him to give it me half the price, and he doesn't expect me to give him a free place into something like that.

The other thing I wanted to touch on is. You know, how like we were talking about the types of clients or the types of customers that you might work with, who will end up being a nightmare. When you think you've done them a favor, they're the ones that are going to take up all your time and all your stuff.

And, and also the fact of you mentioned and touched upon which again, really hit with me. And one of my, my students that, you know, your husband will be looking at you like. What is going on. And I know, you know, some of the partners of the people I worked with that partners are looking at them going, you are working your backside off.

You are never there for us. You are not there for the children. You never sit down. Or if you do, because inevitably they take the time for the children and them, and they take no time for themselves. Like they will be out working for God knows what time they're running themselves, ragged every single day.

Like, I think we forget about us in this scenario. Like when is the kindness to us.

Natalie: And that's another thing, you know, but society has taught women that their needs don't matter. If your husband wants romantic time, you give it to him. If your children want to hug or to play outside, then that's what you do. If your boss, wants you to work overtime.

Then that's what you do. If your client needs a last minute favor, even though you warned her that this thing was gonna happen and she didn't listen. And now it's happened. You'll you acquiesced. When the church says that they have a meeting and they need you to lead Bible study, you do it. If the fundraisers says they need a hundred bucks and you don't have it $102 in your checking account. You pay it. That's what society does. It tells women their needs are not important. That's why they start these businesses that are so crappy, frankly, because the business is not centered around their core. My core value is joy, legacy and wealth, our rate is joy.

Know why? Because when my core value was legacy. All I did was work. What if something happens to me tomorrow, will people have gotten my legacy? I need to record all this content. I need to write all these blogs. I need to hire all these coaches. I need to work work work because that's the only way I'll have this legacy.

What about my happiness? See, that gets left out of the equation because women have worked so long without it. Unfortunately it is optional for them. It is optional. And we're also conditioned at wanting money is bad. There are Christians who erroneously believe that money is the root of all evil. I don't believe that. I don't believe that the love of money is the root of all evil.

There is evil that I believe has nothing to do with money. Like you got to believe, like I cannot see any financial benefits to that. I think it is flat out evil, perversion. I don't think it has anything to do with money.

Teresa: And like you said, are people who, you know, with money and without money who are still evil and awful.

Natalie: That too. Right? So we give money a lot of power and we think it has the power to corrupt. You hear that money corrupts? No, no, no. Some corrupt people have money and they use that money to further their corruption that is more accurate. Right. And so there's nobility in poverty. I know that sounds crazy.

But if you. You've never heard of tighter band of friends than broke people who lament about money. They are so close. You get you four or five women on the barn, girl. I just been going through a hard time. My utilities got turned off today. Can I get some money from you girl? No, my husband lost his job and the baby had a sickle cell flare and now, oh, don't even come over here.

I haven't had a client pay me at six months. They are the best friends in the world. They are, they are that they are stuck in their tragedy and they're, their trauma has become part of their personality. I'm an excellent coach. Some people need therapy. Some people need to meet with a psychiatrist and talk about the deep rooted trauma that keeps them stuck in an unhealthy pattern.

And I'm here to tell everyone under the sound of my voice today, if your business doesn't pay you, you are in an unhealthy pattern. You have said you client are more important than my children. You client are more important than my husband. You client are more important than me. You're more important than my retirement.

You're more important than my mortgage. I'm willing to lose it all. So that you believe I'm a nice person who did something for you for free. That thought in your mind is worth every possession. And every joy that I have, you are better than me. You have something I don't have, you are worth more than I am worth.

I am very humble as your servant. And I pray at some point you will see value and need a baby.

Teresa: Yeah. Yeah.

Natalie: And that is deep and I cannot relate. Charge these people, if folks in your circle can't afford to pay, get creative partner with a nonprofit, right. That could be an option. They could pay you. You could have a partnership with sponsorship, a fundraiser, and that would the end user, is it paying more?

Is it paying? Right? Yeah. But is this really they can't afford, or is this you trying to twist someone's arm into something they don't think they need? I don't try to convince people who've never made any money that they need to hire me as coach. No, you don't need a coach. You need clients, get some clients and come back to me.

Right. So is it people can't afford or. Maybe you aren't bold enough to charge more when people say people won't charge, won't pay me that much. Have you ever charged that fledge? Like, is that a fact that we know for service or is this like, well, I suspect because I'm struggling to get clients now. So if I raise my rates, it's going to be even harder, right?

No, it'll be easier because people will know that you're serious. Just like you said, your first coach was 15,000. My first coach was 10,000. Was it that there were no cheap options available? I don't think that's what it was at all. I think there were hundreds of cheap options. You probably sidestep, you know, 49 pound workshops and 3000 pound courses to pay 15 K for that coach.

Right? Like you purposely leaked over low price things for that coach. Why? Because you believed there was a massive transformation attached to that massive price tag. It wasn't that cheap options weren't there. You did and take them. So there are lots of people right now who position themselves as cheap because they think that's what people want.

But when I go to the mall, Fendi has a line. Louis Vuitton has a line. Gucci has a line, oh, Navy never have a line. Zara doesn't have a line. Top shop. I'm just saying like, there're people want premier. We just have to be bold enough to, to be a premier business and not be a discount business, especially for the wrong reason.

If the reason is helping marginalized people, would you need to restructure your business? So people will like me. That's the wrong reason.

Teresa: And you said some really good stuff there. In fact of like, You know, that people will pay. And what I've always found really interesting is when we wrongly make an assumption about someone and think they can't afford this, they normally blow me out of the water by buying something crazy expensive from someone else.

I didn't offer this because I thought you couldn't afford it. And then they get it to someone else.

It's not that it's priorities. I remember when I, my ex-husband and I separated and I started my business and my daughter started school. She was like four starting an infant school. And life was hard. Like I was on my own. I had started a business. Like money was tough. I was taking her to school. I was trying to do the school run.

The hours went long enough. I was getting really stressed with like trying to fit everything in trying to build this business, trying to manage her as a parent. It was awful. So I decided one day that I wanted to move her to private school. And I wanted her to be in a private school where she could be more settled because.

She was, and I wasn't getting the service I should have had from the school she was in. And it was a, that was a state school, but I felt like I had no power to challenge them and staff. Anyway, I went along, I looked at this private school. Everybody without fail thought I had lost my mind. I was a single parent.

I was running my home. I had gotten no job. I had just started this business and I made the, what appeared most people, the insane decision to take my child out to free school and put her into a private school. And I remember a friend of mine saying to me, like, ‘What are you thinking?' And I'm like, ‘It's priorities.'

That's all it is. Like my priority to my daughter that she's happy that she settled, that she can have a slightly longer day at this one school where they love her and it's small and it's beautiful. And it's great. Like that priority is more important to me than having a better car or having, you know, going out for dinner three times a week.

It's just priorities. It was just for me actually, that was more important. And it's the same with the coach. It's the same when I do spend the money, like you said, you know, if you're going to pay not much for something, then it probably isn't a big priority in your world. Is it?

Natalie: Right. That's a story for another day.

We'll be on this podcast. We'll be, uh, Shakespeare in monologue. If I can get it on my soap box, I will have to do that for another day. I'll get the book written. I'll come back.

Teresa: And then we'll talk about that.

Natalie: We'll do that. But I, I, again, I was with a gentleman for three years. We went ring shopping. We didn't get married.

11 months later, I got married.

Teresa: Wow.

Natalie: Because I was ready to get married. The, so the commitment that he would give me, I wanted it. He just didn't offer it. So I found it in someone else. This is what we do when we low price people. Hmm, right before Lex, this, there was just Toyota. When Hyundai first came out, it was just Hyundai. And they didn't have a high price option.

So when people decided they wanted a luxury, a hundred thousand dollar car Hyundai didn't have anything to sell. So they were losing business to Audi, BMW and Rolls-Royce because they have $100,000 plus offer. If you don't people can't take what you don't make. If you don't have that next level, you're essentially telling your clients, this is as far as you can go with me, you have to go further with someone else.

It's just like the yellow brick road. You remember the Wizard of Oz everybody got Dorothy, just a little bit further down the yellow brick road, but no one was willing to go the whole journey with Dork. So you got to decide, are you going to drop people off? At 2000 place and let them pay 10,000 to somebody else, or would you rather kept Dorothy and elevated her 10,000 yourself?

Again, this isn't about can't afford. This is about value. I couldn't afford that $10,000 coach either. Let me just put that out there full disclosure, but I paid it whether I could afford it or not with relevant, I knew I needed it. I waved my pros and cons and I put it on a credit card, immediate, financial advisor.

Okay. And novice 0% interest credit card. Okay. I didn't have an offer. It was interest immediately. I cringed every month, but it motivated me to get some clients and implement her ideas and framework and pay the debt off. And I was able to pay that 10 K off in three months.

Teresa: And, you know, same, same kind of story of the fact of I had got that money in a savings account and it was like my buffer.

It was like my that's my safety zone within, uh, two months of working with her. She'd helped me with two things that meant I bought in all that money again. Like, yeah, like, and there were two customers I was already working with and basically they had the work we were doing. Cause I was being nice. I'd done all this work for them.

And I hadn't charged them. I didn't want to charge since I felt bad. And I sat and had a conversation with her. She helped me structure in my head. She helped me structure in terms of what I'm going to do. And I went to them and said, I've done all this work. I'm afraid I'm gonna have to charge you more.

And the amount that I ended up charging, both of them came to the amount that I paid her. Like there's no way I would've done that. No way on this earth. So yeah, it just, like you said, sometimes we, we do have to make some slightly scary thoughts and decision. I'm very happy to say that even though I put my daughter in a school, which I could not afford at the time, she is almost turning 12 and is still in that same, very school. And I've paid it every single month.

Natalie: Just that it, you stepped out on faith. And I think we also need to look at what's the worst case scenario. A lot of times what we telling ourselves is the worst case scenario doesn't make sense. If you did raise your prices and nobody bought, what is that mean? Well, now you have data, right?

If you charge 2000 a month for coaching, you probably can't go to 10 K and keep your same clients. You are going to need new clients. So now you've got data. So maybe instead of raising your prices down much, maybe raising the 2,500. And start doing market research and coffee chats with the type of client you want to attract.

For instance, I am pivoting from women who are, I don't like eating money or business Natalie helped me learn how to sell so I can make money in my business to I make gobs of money already, but I'm working too hard or I don't have financial literacy. I don't know how to invest. I don't know how to say, I don't know how to prioritize my financial expenditures.

Should I invest first? Should I pay off gap first? Should I hire an, a statistic first? What are the tax implications of these decisions? I'm pivoting to people who have money, but don't have time and do VIP days with those women where we go through, can do everything about money. Their money, their mindset and their mission.

Teresa: Perfect.

Natalie: One day and give them 30 days of support. That doesn't work for the type of client I had needs accountability and touch points every week. If someone encouraged them to go out and do the dip, I'm ready to pivot to women who were like, no, I got this. My business is good. I just want to make sure I need direction.

And I want to mastermind money. Right? That's what I want. Money mastery. Right? That's what I want. So I didn't just quadruple our prices. I started doing research. I started talking to women who make a lot of money who fit that bill. What would you pay? What do you do? What is the obstacle? How can I help? And so now when I relaunched a new offer suite, it won't be a stab in the dark that I'm scared no one will pay for.

It will be a very thoughtful, calculated risk. And you have nobody buys it. I'll just keep selling existing stuff until I figure something else out. It's not the end of the world. That's why I just need people to get over the fear that is going to be some cataclysmic, eruption. That's going to ruin their life.

Am I new splash? Most of our us are already in a business like that. Less than 12% of women led businesses make a hundred thousand dollars a year.

Teresa: Less than 12%.

Natalie: And that's composed of all women. Not black and brown women, or, you know, like I know if that includes white women, then if I exclude white women.

Teresa: That number is like literally falling on the floor.

Natalie: Right? So a hundred K a year is only $8,300 gross a month. What are you paying yourself on 8,300 gross? And again, that's the high end of a hundred K. What if they're making 50 K what if they're making 25 K you're not paying yourself. So now you're leaning on a spouse. Missing bill payments, none investing. You don't have anything, either step IRA, you have nothing in life insurance.

And so now you're trying to coach from a place of duress. You're trying to consult from a coach of a place of duress. How can you educate people when you're at home worried about paying your bills? How can you show a fully the reason my energy is on 100 because I hit my annual revenue goal in September.

I've been happy ever since, because everything else is icing on the cake. I can spend the rest of the year off and nothing bad will happen. That is incredible. One. My bowl was obviously too low, but two, I crushed it and I feel great about it. And every woman deserves this feeling of economic power. If I want to fly to France for two days for this conference, I can. If I want to tell my husband, you know what, that guy's a jerk, don't do his photo shoot and refund his $1,500. We can afford it.

There was a time where frankly, we had to do any job he could get because we just needed the job. But now we have a refund fund.

Teresa: I love it.

Natalie: Now I have a no refund policy, but life happens. I actually had a client whose child passed away. Oh gosh. And I cried and she cried and I cried and she cried.

She did not even ask me for the money back. She didn't even want the money back. She was like, I'm going to come back to you. I was like, Ma'am, ma'am, you're putting your child in the ground. Like this is a non-negotiable. Right, but like how many people have money left over where they could refund the client? What about two clients?

What about three clients? Yeah. Right. A lot of people are running so low in their business bank account that they don't have the capital to make a move or do something. I have five four grand. This morning actually the minimum income requirement or gross revenue requirement was 100 K. And it even putting in the notes that it's up to 50 women, that sounds like every year, they can't even find 50 women who know about the grant apply and meet the ink.

And when I looked at it, I was like, why don't people apply? Then I saw the income requirement. I was like, that's it? This is it. You've got to be a minority woman who made a hundred K. Well, I already told you the statistic. Yeah, there just aren't that many, that is sad, free 10,000 bucks. 10,000 bucks for somebody, but you got to prove you're already making money.

So you harm yourself in incalculable ways. When you decide to settle for a low revenue business, it's more than just greed or Aaron or Fitz. I don't want to be greedy. This isn't about being greedy. This is about the lifestyle you want. I want to be able to create a scholarship and me and my husband's name and my Alma mater, Alabama A&M University and hospital Alabama.

And I want to pay for full tuition for a child from Alabama. I'm not going into stale because I didn't. And I always felt inferior because people were in math and engineering and science, and I did have a proclivity towards those things. And I was always told I'd be broke. And then I got two business degrees and I actually was still broke.

And I felt like all those people were right. And that I was dumb. Because I wasn't an engineer. And then I moved to the home of NASA. I am in the city where the headquarter of NASA is.

Teresa: Amazing.

Natalie: So I meet engineers every single day to kind of rub it in my face that, you know, they make $200,000 a year when we haven't launched a rocket in like five years.

So how are they still making money? I'm so confused. We hurt ourselves, our communities, our businesses, our churches. Wouldn't you love it the next time that the church needed money, where you could just write a check. You know, y'all, didn't have to do fundraisers and sell cookies and t-shirts and petties. I wouldn't be valued if you could just write a check and the whole fundraiser be like over, like, that's what it does for us.

We think about a lot of money and we envision a Kardashian.

Teresa: Yeah. Yeah.

Natalie: That's not I mean, there's their choice. I'm not saying it's wrong. If you don't have to buy an Aston Martin, because you're wealthy, you don't give it all away.

Teresa: Help the whole community, you can do something.

Natalie: Like the Gates. Bill and Melinda, like they have a Bill Gates foundation.

They give away millions of dollars a year. You don't have to be a bad person because you have money. That is a trope that we need to detach from. As long as we believe money is evil, we will repel it and we'll continue to have lifestyles that attract, let's say non ideal clients.

Teresa: Natalie honestly, I could talk to you all day.

This has been so good and I know I've needed to hear it. And I think periodically people, we all need to hear this stuff. Don't we? Like this isn't something tick done, move on, never worry about that again.

Natalie: Mindset is continuous.

Teresa: Yeah. Constant. So honestly I am so very grateful for you coming on. It's been so good.

Natalie, if my audience wants to come and find you, where do you hang out most?

Natalie: Um, I live on clubhouse. That's where I live. That's where my house is. I just moved it onto clubhouse. It's been great. I am also on Instagram, my handle, and either place is @unapologeticwealth.

Teresa: Love it.

Natalie: Or my website,

Teresa: Amazing. We will link up to everything in the show notes and luckily it has been an absolute pleasure having you on. Thank you so much.

Natalie: Thank you.

Teresa: There you go. That was the amazing Natalie. Like I said, I really enjoyed that conversation. I loved her straight talking. How frank, she has about these things and how practical she was as well as talking about the mindset stuff.

So I hope you got a lot from it. Like I said, make sure that you are subscribed. If you want to post on social about how wonderful it was. I would love that just so much. Anyway, I will be back next week with a solo episode. I will see you then.