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How To Have An Incredible Launch With Small Numbers with Mary Hyatt

KEY TAKEAWAYS COVERED IN THE PODCAST
  • It’s important to remember that you can’t heal your own sick mind with your own sick mind. Sometimes an outside perspective, such as a coach, is all you need.
  • Remember, you are exactly where you need to be.
  • If you’re working with a coach, you need to be as open and honest as you can be. It’s not going to be an easy process so you need to feel happy with who you’re working with.
  • There is a myth that if you have more followers, you’re going to sell more products and make more profit. At the end of the day it doesn’t matter about the numbers, it matters who is opening your email and buying into your products and services.
  • A great way to forget about the numbers is to forget about your ego. You don’t need to brag about the numbers you have to others in the industry, you need to focus on the people you are directly affecting.
  • If you’re better connected to your customers and clients, you can offer higher ticket items.
  • Remember, a sale never happens outside of a conversation. You need to think about who would benefit from your products and services and talk to them.
  • People want you to be human.
  • Ensure you’re giving your followers value and that they trust you.
  • You don’t need a big successful launch like everyone around you.
  • 100 devoted fans is better than 1,000 unengaged followers.
THE ONE THING YOU NEED TO REMEMBER ABOVE ALL ELSE…

Love the people that are already supporting you. Nurturing the people that are in your DMs, commenting on your photos and replying to your emails is the best possible way to ensure a successful launch.

HIGHLIGHTS YOU SIMPLY CAN'T MISS
  • Introducing Mary Hyatt – 07:12
  • How Coaching Can Benefit You – 13:44
  • Launching A Product with Small Numbers – 20:50
  • Nurturing Your Small Numbers – 25:00
  • Getting Personal – 39:45
  • Forgetting About the Numbers – 50:00
LINKS TO RESOURCES MENTIONED IN TODAY'S EPISODE
  • Mary Hyatt Coaching
  • Mary Hyatt Instagram
  • Mary Hyatt Facebook
Transcript below

 

Hello and welcome to this week's episode of the podcast. I hope you're well, and I hope you came back after last week's slightly crazy episode. I apologise. I'm on form, now, she says. Let's see. Anyway, I can't mess up too much, because it's an interview, and it's already been recorded, so hopefully it should be fine.

This week I am interviewing the super lovely, and my very dear friend, Mary Hyatt. I've known Mary now for a couple of years, and I want to explain to you, although I'm a wee bit embarrassed, to tell you how on earth I met Mary, and how I started working with her, and then how we became good friends.

Basically, trying to think of where it started. Okay. Some time back, a few years back, I decided that I'd seen lots of different coaches, and I'd started to discover what coaching was about. I was thinking to myself that maybe this is what I needed, because I was one of those people, well, I know what to do. I know how to launch things, and market things, and I know how to put together memberships and courses, and all that sort of thing, and I had done it with loads of clients. I couldn't work out why I wasn't doing it for myself, and what was stopping me.

The thing that was also getting frustrating was, sometimes even though I knew what to do, I'd get to my desk, and I wouldn't do it. Or I would not feel motivated to do it. I just knew that I needed some kind of help, but it wasn't necessarily help in how to do things, because I knew that. I started looking in the coaching, and thinking about it, and I have to say my experience, which I do mention on the interview, but my experience of coaches tended to be more your traditional business coach, or business consultant.

When I first started my business I used to do networking. Obviously when I started that, all the coaches and all the consultants that could help you with your business were, well, in all honesty, middle aged men, and people that I didn't feel that I could relate to. Very corporate type people, and I just wasn't keen on the idea of someone coaching me like that. Anyway, this one day, I'm sat in San Diego. I'm at Social Media Marketing World, and I'm having a bit of a funny … not episode, but like, I've talked before about I get overwhelmed at events. I had done Trafficking Conversion, and then straight into Social Media Marketing World.

It was really early in the morning, because I tend to get up quite early and do some work before my day starts, and I'm sat at my computer. It's 4AM, and my husband's staying, he's with me, he's asleep in bed, and I've got my headphones in, and I'm listening to a podcast while doing a few sort of emails, and a few things. I'm listening to Amy Porterfield. As you know, and I've talked before, Amy is one of those people that I aspire to be like. She's really a mentor to me, where that's the type of life and person and business that I would like for my own.

So anyway, I'm sat there listening to Amy, and Amy happens to mention that she's got a coach. She talks about her coach, and then she says her coach's name, and she says the name Mary Hyatt, and also mentions that Mary is Michael Hyatt's daughter. If you don't know Michael Hyatt, he's a New York bestseller, very successful businessman, and Mary's his daughter. She was saying how all the Hyatts are amazing, and it sounds like an advert for them, but anyway, I was interested as to the fact that she had mentioned Mary, and Mary was a coach.

I went online, and I had a look at Mary's website, and I have to say, it spoke so much to my heart. It was like literally everything that I needed was right there in it. It didn't really talk about doing business stuff, or strategy, or whatever. It talked about being more fulfilled, or being more inline with the life that you want. The more softer side, if you like, of coaching, and personal, rather than necessarily straight-up business. Anyway, I decided to message Mary. There was a form on her site that you had to complete, and there was a finance … I'm pretty sure there was a, “You have to hit this level of finance.” Luckily for me, I hit it from a dollar's point of view, but not of pounds. I was like, “Well, I'm sure that's fine.”

So I filled in the form and I sent it over to the website, whatever. And sat there continued working, and it gets to the morning, and I'm getting ready to go to the conference, and Mary emails me back. She says, this is interesting- sorry, that was it. One of the questions on her form was, “What made you do this today?” And I said, “I'm in San Diego, I should be all pumped and excited, and instead I'm overwhelmed, and I'm lost, and a bit like a rabbit in headlights.” She emailed me saying, “You'll never guess what. I'm in San Diego.” Mary lives in Nashville, so obviously quite a bit from San Diego. She'd come over to see some clients, and she was in San Diego, and I was in San Diego, like the weirdest, most serendipitous, is that, I've said that right haven't I? Moment ever.

She said, “Do you want to meet for lunch and have a chat about it?” Anyway, absolutely blown away by the fact that she was in San Diego. Met her for lunch, and I guess, as you would say, the rest is history. I worked with Mary, and Mary and I then became really great friends, and we've just spent some time out in Nashville with her, about a week with her, and we just had a scream. It was brilliant. I loved it.

Mary is one of those people that is so smart, and has such a good way of dealing with things, that I just wanted her on the podcast, because I wanted you to hear some of the things she had to say. Because quite honestly, from my point of view, Mary has changed the way I think about me and my business. If I can say anything for coaching, honestly, for me, it worked wonders. I'm not going to say it does for everybody, but for me it was exactly what I needed at the time, I needed it. Mary did an amazing job.

Anyway, I've bought her on, and she's going to talk a bit about that, but she's also going to talk about launching when you don't have a massive list. Mary, at the time of recording this, had just gone through a launch where it was very small and private, and personal, and authentic. I wanted Mary to talk about her strategy with that as well, because I know that this is a big thing that lots of my audience talk about, the fact that they haven't got massive lists, and how can they launch if they haven't got a massive list, and blah, blah, blah. I wanted us to talk about this, because I knew she had done a good job.

There is so much value packed into this episode. I hope you're going to enjoy it, so I won't take up anymore time. Here's Mary.

 

Introducing Mary Hyatt

 

It gives me the greatest pleasure to welcome my very dear friend, Mary Hyatt, to the podcast. Welcome, Mary.

Oh my gosh. This is exciting and super fun.

And a little bit weird, because this is the first time I've ever interviewed someone face to face. And we literally are face to face.

I feel like this is actually going to be awesome, because we're just going to have a conversation.

Exactly. We're here in Nashville, which is awesome. I'm over here, Mary lives here, so this is a perfect opportunity to do a podcast interview and have a chat, because I've wanted Mary on the podcast for a long time. If you haven't heard of Mary, Mary, tell my audience who you are, and how you got to do what you're doing now.

Yeah. I am a Life and Mindset Coach. What I focus on with my clients, I work primarily with female entrepreneurs, but what I love helping women do is to begin to find their voice, and embark on a self-discovery journey, and shift their mindset so that they can design a life that they truly are in love with. Where they feel confident, where they love their bodies, where they love their lives, and are able to embrace their femininity in their work, in their relationships, and ultimately live from a truly authentic place.

Amazing.

Yeah.

Before I started my business, I don't think I'd ever really thought about coaching. Also, probably for the first couple of years of the business, I didn't think about coaching at all. I didn't realise what it could do. And honestly, you've coached me.

Yeah.

Which is amazing, and Mary is amazing. I was telling my husband the other night, and he said, “Have you ever told Mary this?” Because I said, “Mary has honestly changed my life.” He was like, “I think you need to make sure Mary knows that,” and you have. The thing is, right, if you'd come to me and said, “We're going to do coaching,” I wouldn't have really known how to explain or talk about what I needed. I'm still almost, maybe to this day, I'm not sure I could say, “Actually, this is what you need coaching for,” or, “This is what it specifically did.” I just know all the stuff we did, all the work we did, changed everything. Not only how I focused on in my business, not only how I looked at myself, but how I interacted with my husband and my family.

Yeah.

Because the thing that I loved working with you about, and the coaching I liked, because I think I'd only ever known more business consultants than necessarily business coaches.

Right.

Is that they would have focused on the business bit, and actually for me, that wasn't the area we needed to work on.

Yeah.

We needed to work on me, and how I felt about myself, and how I felt about my business.

Yeah. What's interesting is, and this is why I love to be a coach, is that, there's that saying, “How you do one thing, is how you do everything.”

I've not heard that.

To me, that goes back to mindset.

Yeah.

Your underlying beliefs about your capabilities. Who you are. The rules you operate under, the value system that you value, all of these sort of subconscious belief systems that we adopted from early, early ages, those kinds of beliefs, the ways of thinking, the perspective, that's what's running the show of our lives.

Yeah.

It shows up in our relationships. It shows up in our business. It shows up in the way we relate to our bodies, our spirituality, our confidence. What I found is, you might be great at business, but you might feel like a fraud.

Yeah.

So it's like, where else are you feeling like a fraud in your life? It has nothing to do with how successful you are in one area or another. To me it's like, do you feel fulfilled? Are you experiencing joy? Do you feel fully alive? If you don't, you're a beautiful candidate for coaching, because to me, all of those systems, all of those mindsets, the perspectives, the understandings of life, can be updated, remodelled, shifted, changed, until you tweak it enough, the way you think, when you shift the way you think, it shifts your external world.

Yeah.

You can experience more pleasure, more joy, more happiness, whatever that might be, but it requires a new awareness. As my mom would say, “You can't heal your own sick mind with your own sick mind.”

Yeah.

You just can't see your own blind spots.

No.

Which is why coaching is so powerful, and so beneficial. It was so fun working with you, because you were so open.

Yeah, yeah.

You were so ready to go there. Of course with coaching, you have to be willing to try out new things, and experiment, and you were the perfect student. I just love it. We had such a great time.

We did.

And now of course we're friends.

Yeah, which is amazing.

It was just an amazing experience.

It was. And like I said, I think sometimes, I would think, “Oh no, this is meant to be about the business, and how am I driving the business forward?” And actually now I look at it, it literally is like, no. Everything you did, and everything we talked about, and even when, I remember some sessions were very much about family.

Yeah.

Because I'm a step-mum, and there's a lot of goings on in my world when it comes to that, and there were lots of challenges, and even talking about that had a big impact on everything else. You could have the best business mind in the world, but if you wake up one day, and you don't feel like it, or something else. I think as a business owner, one thing I completely didn't realise or, I didn't think about how it impacted my business, is what was happening in my personal life.

Yeah.

And boy does it impact.

Oh, it bleeds into everything.

Yeah.

Like you said, you could have your best month ever, and your revenue is up, and your sales are up, and everything is just amazing, and what robs the ability to celebrate that, or to experience joy from that, or to feel fulfilment from that, could be something going on in your personal life that is in crisis, or is stressful. Even the way you think about your body.

Yeah.

If you hate your body, and you don't feel confident, and you don't feel like you are enough, it doesn't matter how many accolades you have in your business. You're still going to feel like the loser.

Yeah.

It's like all of that leads into every other area of your life, and so to me, if you were going to have a thriving life, you have to address every area. It's so much more than just business.

 

How Coaching Can Benefit You

 

Yeah. Totally. There's a couple of things, and we actually didn't come on to talk about the coaching too much, and we'll get to our thing that we're talking about, but there's a couple things I want to bring up, because they were so profound, and have honestly made a huge difference to me. They were, often I guess, it is the small things that you might say that then suddenly someone goes, “Boom.” That's literally hit my head, and made perfect sense. One of the things you taught me, and we talked about, was you're exactly where you need to be. That honestly changed everything.

Yeah.

Because I would go through periods, like any business, where it got busy, and got quiet, and got busy, and got quiet. In the quiet periods, I would freak out.

Yep.

And I'd panic and think, “Oh my god, this is wrong. What's happening? I need to get more business, I need to make more money, I need to do this, I need to do that.” I remember one of those periods came when we were coaching, and you said to me, “What if this is exactly where it's meant to be?” And also personal life, my husband worked away a lot, and I was struggling with that, and again you said the same thing. “What if it's meant to be like this?” Suddenly like, what if it is? Actually therefore, I don't need to fight it. I don't need to be angry about it, I don't need to worry about it. I just need to ride it.

Yeah.

That has had such a profound effect on me, and how I feel about my business, because no longer do I feel like I'm panicking and struggling. Sometimes I have to remind myself of that sentence, but when things quieten down, or when I get something or I don't get something, or a shift happens, I think, “I'm exactly where I need to be right now.”

Yeah. Well, and nothing is going to last forever.

Yeah.

I think of our business as seasons. You have spring, and summer, and fall, and winter, and there's periods of your business that are winter, and how necessary that is. To me, the suffering comes from wishing it were different than it is.

Yes.

And putting that extended pressure on ourselves, of wanting it to be something that it's not, and trying to force it, and make it, and just strangle the energy of it, almost.

Yeah, yeah.

It's like, when you can kind of accept that things are the way that they are supposed to be, it just gives you the ability to make decisions that aren't from a place of fear.

Yeah.

That aren't from a place of anxiety. Because a lot of times when we feel, “Oh my god. I've got to make this money,” or, “I've got to make this sale,” we end up doing things that we would never do. In a place of peace, and feeling abundance, and feeling like we are exactly where we are, and as a business owner, you always want to be making your decisions from that place.

Yeah.

Not a place of fear, not a place of stress, not a place of panic, desperation. Because the trajectory, and the aftermath of those kinds of decisions made out of fear, you're going to be paying for that for a long time.

Huge. Huge.

It's miserable. I think that part of that experience for you, it's like slowing down, and being willing to see it from a different angle.

Yeah.

Like, what if this is exactly where I was supposed to be? What if this is where I need to be to learn specific lessons, to be able to have the space and the time to put some more energy into this project or that project? If I was really busy, I wouldn't have that energy for it.

Nope.

I mean, to me, it's not by accident. When you can slow down, and accept what it, you just have greater perspective and more clarity to make the kinds of decisions that, in the long run, will bring your business to prosperity and abundance, where you want it to be, ultimately.

Absolutely. And I think as well, even if people don't buy into the abundance, it just makes you feel better.

Right.

Like, what choice do you want? Do you want to freak out and panic, or go through horribleness? Or do you want to sit there and think, because you can't change it.

Right.

Whatever it is, it's happening.

Yep.

So you can just sit there and think, “Okay, well I can deal with it a different way.” From a really practical point of view, one of the things that I would have done when things got quiet, is I'd have compromised on who my customers were, and I'd have compromised on the work I took on. So I might have taken on a client that I thought, “Actually, this isn't priced where I want it to be.” Or, “This is not exactly the type of work we do, but I'll make an exception, because I really need the money.”

Totally.

And like you said, I'd have been paying for that for months and years.

Yep.

And I wouldn't have been happy with that going on, just at that moment of panic, I'd have thought, “Oh man, I need a client.” Whereas like you said, if I had thought, “No, this is fine,” then I would have viewed it the right way.

Yeah.

I'd have thought, “Do you know what, that isn't my bag, and even though I might need some clients right now, I'm not going to take that on.” Because I know it's coming, and that's fine, and I don't need to worry and rush to get a client on.

And all of these are belief issues.

Yeah.

You were working on the belief, the belief that there's more.

Yeah.

That more is coming. You don't have to act out of desperation. That you had the ability to say, “No.” Because you'll be able to say yes to the kinds of people that you want.

Yeah.

And that's going to effect your happiness in your business.

For sure. Absolutely. Yeah, you did some amazing stuff. Honestly, if you're sat listening, thinking, “I don't have a coach, I don't know about a coach, I've never considered one,” then absolutely do go and check out the idea of getting a coach. Obviously [inaudible 00:18:34] Mary. The other thing I think is super important is, you've got to have that connection.

Yes.

You've got to have, this is someone who you're letting into your world, and you've got to be very open and honest. Some of those conversations are not easy, are they?

No.

From both points of view. One, taking it, and two, telling you.

Yeah.

And being able to open up. For me, whoever you get in to coach you or work with you, you've got to feel completely confident and happy about who you're working with, because otherwise it isn't going to work.

Yeah. You want to have easy trust.

Yeah.

Because it is, it's intimate. It's an intimate relationship.

Yep.

And so you want to feel like you can instantly trust this person. You want to feel that chemistry.

Yes.

It's a little bit like hiring a therapist, or something.

Yeah.

I mean, you don't want to just get anybody.

No.

You really want to know you can work for the next several months to several years with this person, and go into those deep, dark places. Have somebody who can hold that space for you, and who's qualified to give you the kind of coaching that you're seeking.

Yeah.

Because there's all different kinds of coaches. So it's important to understand what you're really wanting before you head into a coaching relationship, because some coaches are more consultant.

Yeah.

Bent.

Business, yeah.

Business consulting. Some people do more mindset, some people are more energy kind of coaches. There's all different kinds, so it's important to look up, and go, “Okay, what am I really looking for? And is this person the right fit for me?”

Absolutely. And also, what was interesting is, I have a number of coaches already in my world. My own sister's a coach, one of my best friends is a coach, and you know what? I couldn't work with them.

Yeah.

I love them to bits, and they are brilliant, and I'm sure they're amazing coaches, however that dynamic does not, for me, didn't work. And I don't think it would work for many people. Because your own sister trying to coach you, the resistance that I would put up to that.

Yeah, forget it.

Would be like, mm-hmm (negative), this is not happening.

Nope.

 

Launching A Product with Small Numbers

 

So yeah. Definitely do go check that out. One of the reasons we got Mary on today is because, Mary and I were talking about launching, and working in this space that we're in, which sometimes can feel totally full-on. We see, and I'm sure you guys listening see, loads of people launching all the time, and they've got big numbers, and they're launching in big waves, and they're coming up with these amazing things. It was like, how can we do that if A, I have smaller numbers. B, I want to become more authentic and more myself, and how can I make it more personal?

Because sometimes, I don't know about you guys, but I know I get a million emails, and it gets a little bit tiresome, if I'm honest. Don't get me wrong, I don't think for one second that these guys who are selling these courses, or training, or memberships, haven't got the best products. I'm absolutely sure of it, they're amazing. However, when I see someone going into launch mode, and it starts going crazy, it does get a little bit much. Also what's interesting is, someone really big, actually, in our world, does launch mode fairly frequently, and for a little while, no, no, for quite a while, I was in their membership. They kept trying to launch to me, and I was already in their membership.

Like upsell you?

No, just literally, “Go join the membership,” and I was in it.

Oh. You're like, in it.

I was like, “Please stop trying to sell the thing I've got back to me.” I just thought, god, what a mistake. It just felt so impersonal. I am currently about to launch something. By the time this comes out, I'll have already done it, but I'm conscious that I don't want to come across like that.

Yeah.

Because I genuinely want to work with people who really want to work with me. Anyway, Mary's just done a launch of her group coaching programme. It was a really interesting, really nicely personal way of doing it, and had great results.

Yeah.

That's why I wanted Mary to come on and talk about this today. Before we get into that, sort of talk to me about the fact of, the myth of having to have a massive email list in order to sell and launch anything.

Yeah. I think it's an illusion, and I think that a lot of people are teaching this, preaching this. More numbers, more is better, more, more, more. The more Instagram followers you have, the more Facebook followers you have, the more people on your email list. Get your email list, get your email list. Which, none of those things are bad things.

No.

But you see people who are paying to get fake followers. They want to look like they're important. There's a lot of shady business that's happening behind the scenes, that people are trying to look significant. There is a myth, that if I have more numbers, I'm going to sell more units, and therefore make more money. I would love to disagree with that. Not to say that that can't be true, but to me, it's like, let's say you have an email list of 7000 people. How many of those 7000 people are actually opening up your emails? What's your conversion rate?

Yep.

Because at the end of the day, it doesn't matter about your numbers. It matters who opens your emails, and who actually hands you money.

Yeah.

If people aren't handing you money, even though you have these large numbers, then it's useless. What's the point? To me, I think it is so important to invest in one-to-one. In order to do this, and I've had to go through this journey myself. I worked with my own coach over this. Is, I had to give up my ego. Because my ego wants to be able to brag to my fellow friends in the industry, how many people I have on my email list, how many followers I have, and how many units I sold, or whatever that might be. I was getting off on the bragging of it. My ego really loved that, because it's measuring, we like to say in the South, it's like a dick measuring contest, right?

Yeah, absolutely.

It's just appalling, at the end of the day.

Yeah.

Because it's like, who cares? How many lives are you actually impacting? To me, I had to make a real mental shift to start thinking about, when I'm selling to somebody, I want to envision that one person.

Yeah.

If I can slow down and impact, like, I think about you, and our coaching experience. To know that I have changed your life?

Yeah. Huge.

There's nothing more satisfying than that. Forget if I signed in 300 people into a membership site, or my course, or whatever it might be. Knowing that I can put a face to that impact, that I can think about you, I can think about specifically what [inaudible 00:25:03] to your life. I know what it's done to your life.

Yeah.

 

Nurturing Your Small Numbers

 

I have a reference point for it, because I actually care about you. That, for me, is way rewarding. So I had to set my ego aside, and say, “What is the good that I'm actually trying to do here?” And, “Can I allow it to be enough, impacting a smaller amount of people, than chasing the numbers.” And moving from numbers to faces. I think that that is so powerful, when you can make that shift, eventually those faces can become more and more and more faces, but it's like you've taken the time to connect, and to slow down. Honestly, in this regard, I think that when you are personally connecting, you can offer higher ticketed items.

Yep. Absolutely.

Instead of trying to meet the masses with a $49 product, for example. My group coaching is $2500 per person, so I don't need that many people in that programme to account for what I might try to do with a smaller programme, because I'm intimate. I'm slowing down, I'm connecting one to one. And we'll talk about the specifics of that, but I think it's a myth, that you need to have a lot of people.

I think, like you said, one thing I hear all the time is, these huge email lists. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan and advocate of building an email list.

Yes.

However, look what happened to my example, where I'm on someone's email list, and they've got me down wrong.

Yeah.

It just makes me feel like, you don't even know me, and I pay you money. That feeling that gives you, it's not a great feeling. Whereas, like you said, if you are slowing down a bit, or if you are concentrating on the people who are paying you money, or the people who are raising their hand and saying, “Yes, I like your stuff,” or signing into your stuff, or whatever, then you are giving them a much better feeling about you, and them, that you care for them.

Again, the other thing that's really interesting is, like I said, people want followers. They want numbers, they want these big lists. And they're not looking after the numbers they've got right now. One thing that happens, and it's funny, because I have an email list, and I think there's probably, I don't know, 2000 odd people on there, I think?

She's dick measuring now.

Yeah. How many have you got, Mary?

Yeah. I'm not telling you.

I promise I'm not, because my list is teeny tiny.

I'm teasing.

What really is funny though, is I email out every Wednesday, and I send them an email from me. I don't get a copywriter to write it, I write it.

Yeah.

And last Wednesday just gone, I literally had about 20 odd responses the minute I emailed out. That's amazing.

That's amazing.

And I personally, and it might take me a few days by the time, even though I do other stuff as well, but I personally respond to every single one of them, and I have a conversation with them. Because for me, that is huge. Someone has taken time out of their day to respond to an email from me, that obviously is, not an automated, but a mass email. So it's not like I've personally emailed that one person. But, because of how I've written it, because of what I talk about, they obviously feel that more one to one connection.

Yeah.

For me it's like, love those people. Look after those people. The people who always like your posts, the people who always comment on your post. The people who are like the first ones to sign up to something. They're the ones to be honestly, loving and praising, whether that's five, or 50 people. Just focusing on those is phenomenal.

Well, and I think that there is something to be said for personal invitation.

Yeah.

I want to talk about this, because this is a concept that I have been teaching to people that I've been coaching, and then also now have been implementing myself. This works really well for masterminds. It works really well for group coaching. Smaller groups, more intimate groups. Just like what you said, focusing on those people that are sort of your tribe. The people who like, the people who always are commenting, responding to emails, people who are private messaging you. You know, you have your little squad.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I did a programme a couple years ago in a beta group for my Babe Redefined course, which is all about learning how to make peace with your body. I had this beta group, and it's like, I stay in contact with those women.

Yeah.

There's about 20 of them. Every once in a while, I check in with them. When I was coming up on this group coaching programme, I knew I didn't want to do a public launch. I didn't want to take the time to talk to a lot of people who I knew weren't going to be right for the programme. It's only eight people in this programme, it's $2500 a person, and I had the opportunity of doing as many of those groups as I want, but the group size will only ever be eight.

Yeah.

Right? So it's super intimate. And I want to curate those groups, because what we're talking about inside of the group is super intimate. We're diving deep into these issues of femininity, finding your voice, working from a state of flow and not from a state of hustle. Really getting into some of these issues of finding pleasure, and what does it mean to be a woman, and trying to be successful. So I knew that I needed to create trust for people to want to sign up for this programme. For me, I remember my coach always said, “A sale never happens outside of a conversation.” I think about, what's the conversation that I need to be having with these people? The more personal I can make those conversations, the better.

Yeah.

So I want in to personally invite those people in my squad. I wrote them on a piece of paper. I wrote their names down. I thought, “Who would be the best fit for this programme?” Not, “Who can I sell this programme to?” But, “Who would benefit the most? Who's ready?”

And also what's interesting is, you didn't say who can afford this programme.

Right.

Because I know that I was looking at launching something, and I was playing around with numbers, and I was thinking, “Who do I know that could do this?” And I was talking to a friend of mine and I said, “Do you know what? This person's great, this would be great, I don't think they can afford it.” They were like, “That's not for you to decide.”

Yeah.

And it's so true. Because actually, some things that I would put money behind, and there's some things I wouldn't put money behind.

Right.

And you might look at me and think, “Oh well, you wouldn't pay that,” but actually on that instance for that thing, I really might pay that.

Yeah. It's a value issue, ultimately.

Totally.

I remember a mentor of mine, he said, “Don't guard people's pocketbooks.”

Okay.

It's not your responsibility to guard and determine whether somebody can or cannot afford anything.

Yeah.

You have to give people the opportunity to say “yes” or “no.”

Yeah.

And people can be incredibly resourceful. You actually don't know their finances.

No.

Like, you might think you do. You might think that they're struggling, but they might have money in savings that they'd want to invest. They might pull out some money from this, or borrow money. It's not your responsibility, so you don't have to guard their pocketbook.

Yeah.

Your only job is to think about, who am I going to show up to serve, and are they ready, and will they be a good fit for this programme? Then you can slow down and personally invite them. And I did that, and I thought about each of these people before I wrote this email. I sort of had a general template, right? I'm not going to do a 100% personal email to them.

Yeah, but there's obviously things that you're going to want to mention in every email.

Exactly. So I had a little area in my template where I got to personally connect with them about something about their life.

Yeah.

And I did, I had to go back to old emails. I had to see, like, what was the last conversation I had with them, and what were we talking about? Let me go check their social media, what's going on in their life? That way I could speak from a place of like, “Hey, I really am thinking about you, and how's X, Y, Z going? I'd love an update. I also wanted to tell you about something that I'm creating that's my dream group, and I couldn't help but think of you. I have always had a connection with you, and I want to personally invite you before I ever take this out to the public, I want to give you the opportunity to have a conversation with me about it. Here's what it's going to be about, would you want to talk about it?”

Yep.

My goal is to get them into the next conversation. So, that's the first conversation. The next conversation would be a discovery call, where we get on the phone for 30 minutes. Again, it's a little bit more labour intensive, right? Because it's slower numbers. But every single person that I have spoken to on the phone has said, “Yes. I want to do this.”

Amazing.

Because I took the time to slow down, and connect. So by the time I get on the phone with them, we've exchanged a couple emails. I've sent them a video that explains the modules, the masterclasses of what's going on. They know what they're getting into, and they want more.

And just to say, that's not a polished video.

No, no.

You didn't sit there and do a pre-recorded, cameras, lights, edited, no.

I decided not to, because I thought, what I'm teaching is about authenticity.

Yep.

And I have to practise what I preach. And to be honest, this is a bigger issue, but I'll mention it. I think we're all so sick and tired of the over commercialization of what social media is.

Totally.

It's like we've been able to sniff it out by now, and we know it's fake.

Yep.

We know it's curated. We know it's the highlight reel, and, I think on a human to human level, we are desperately wanting real connection. We are wanting to belong to a community of people that aren't playing the game anymore. You have to play the game, to some degree. I mean, I do, it's like, I have nice graphics, and things like that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I look professional, but-

But also, it's honesty about it, isn't it?

Yeah.

I am very honest in the fact of, I want to put nice pictures of me on Instagram.

Yeah.

I like a nicely curated Instagram, and therefore, I will tell people that I'm only going to put the best pictures of me, because that's how I want it to look, but I'm honest about that. Yesterday I put up an Insta Story. I was trying to record an Insta Story about my podcast episode, and I kept messing it up. The problem is, if I mess it up once or twice, boom, I'm done.

Right.

Honestly, every time after that, I'm messing it up. And I got to the point where I just thought, “I need to get this message across, because I want to talk about this podcast episode, and I keep messing it up, but I'm just going to keep going.” And I literally was like, “This is my fifth attempt, because I keep messing this up.” I started talking, and I messed it up again, but I kept recording, and went, “What I mean, is,” and I just carried on.

Good.

And again, I had loads of people respond to that.

Yes.

And be like, either the laugh-y face, or like, “Yay,” or whatever.

People want you to be human.

Yeah.

Because otherwise you just want to go kill yourself. You know, it's like-

Because we look at these people online, and unfortunately the space that we're in, the big people in our industry are very good at the slick, aren't they?

Yeah.

And you look at it, and you think, “Oh, man.” Honestly, trying to, like, I won't even go on if I haven't got makeup on, because that's me, and I like to wear makeup.

Right.

But it makes you feel like, if my hair's not perfect, if the background's not perfect, if the lighting's not perfect, if I'm not perfect with what I'm saying. And it's not real.

It's not real, and I think that that's the gift of connecting one to one.

Yeah.

Because you're getting to connect as you, and you're getting to connect with who they are. What's brilliant about this, this is something I did the other day. I did a poll on Instagram, and I just asked people to vote. A, B, C, or D. I said something like, “Do you want to live more fully alive, feel more feminine, find your voice, or stop pretending?”

Yep.

Okay, so that has to do with my brand. I had about maybe 150 people who answered. I privately messaged each single person who ever voted, and I just said, “Thank you so much for lending your voice to this, I'm curious. What would it look like for you to live more fully alive?” Or, “What would it look like for you to stop pretending?” The amount of responses that I got?

Amazing.

And then I was able to go back and forth with them, and it's like, the amount of information that I got, I mean, I screen shotted every single conversation, put it into an Evernote file that I'm going to use later for verbiage. For copy.

Yeah.

Because slowing down and connecting one on one, and getting to hear the personal voices of my audience, is going to help me craft content that will be so much more valuable to them.

Yeah. And direct, and using their language.

Yeah.

For sure.

But it required that I was a real person.

Yeah.

That I wasn't automated, that I came in, and that I, you know, I always show people when I mess up. Or, oftentimes, when I did my soft pitch to a group that I had for a meditation, a 21 day meditation challenge, I had a baseball cap on. I had my hair braided to the side. I think I might have had a little bit of makeup on. But I remember saying, like, “Hey, ya'll. I'm not doing a webinar, I'm not doing anything flashy. I want to tell you about this programme because I'm so passionate about it, like you and I were sitting in my living room having a conversation. Here's what it is.” I was basically like, I'm not doing the glitz and the glam.

No.

Because I know what I've created is valuable, it's amazing, and I value our relationship, that I don't need to do all the hoopla, because I already created the trust.

Yeah. Because, well, one, the meditation was amazing. I know you never intended for the meditation challenge to actually lead into this, it just ended up leading into it.

Yep.

But what was great is that you had put together all that trust, and you had those conversations, and also you'd been in my ears for like 21 days.

Yeah.

So hearing that, and like you said, people who were signing up to that, they knew you. They knew your stuff. But I love the fact of you reaching out to everybody who personally responded. Lots of people will not do that, because they don't want to put the effort in. And it took effort. You know, we talked about this.

I have to, it was significant. I had to think of it like a job.

Yep.

Okay, I'm going to log on, I'm going to respond to these emails. And kind of, or, respond to these direct messages, kind of like I would anything else, you know. Just set the time aside, and do it. But what I got was amazing.

Oh, the value that it'll give you back is huge. Like you said, that language they've used, they've opened up, they've had a conversation. And what's worse than someone reaching out and talking to you, if you don't talk back to them? That you've asked them for their input, and then you do nothing with it.

Right.

So the fact that you went back and responded to every single one of them, and like you said, that's a much more personal conversation, because do you know what? If I was going to buy something from someone, or I wanted to work with someone, and they had a conversation directly with me? That would make a huge difference to my buying decision.

Well, okay. Here's what I did next. I want to break it down for people, because I think this is helpful.

It's really helpful.

I'm always like, “Give me the cheat sheet.”

Yeah, yeah.

Okay? Just tell me what to do.

Tell me what to do, I'll just follow it. Brilliant.

 

Getting Personal

 

So I did that little poll, then I personally messaged everybody, and again, I'm thinking, who's the right fit for this programme? I'm sort of weeding out, and self-selecting, and sort of going, “This person's ready, this person's not ready,” but I'm responding to everybody.

Yeah.

My thing is, first and foremost, in my response, I want to offer value. Either that looks like asking them a deeper question, suggesting a book recommendation, sending them maybe a podcast recommendation. Something that would help them in what they're doing, right? Okay, so that's first. Again, it's establishing trust. I'm giving, not taking.

Yep.

So number one is the quiz, number two is personally messaging them. Number three is offering a piece of value.

[crosstalk 00:40:28], yep.

And then the fourth step, for only the people where this makes sense. For the people that I actually would want to get into my programme, who would be a good fit for it. I recorded about, oh, for Instagram it would be four little 15 second videos. So what is that, 45 seconds or whatever? “Hey. I've loved our conversation,” and I'm real personal, so I don't say their name, because I'm actually going to duplicate this, and use it again and again. But it's again, it's me in my living room with a hat on, just casual. I'm like, “Hey girl. I've loved going back and forth, first and foremost thanks for sharing this with me.” I said, “I've been thinking, based on what we've been talking about, I think you might be interested in this group coaching programme that I'm about to launch. It's going to go public, but would it be okay if I sent you some information about it? I think it could actually really support you right now. If it's not the right fit, I'm not married to it, totally fine, but let me know.”

Yeah.

Super casual, just like I would just shoot you a quick message. I had that, I sent that to everybody who I thought that that made sense to send it to. So that was that step. Then I had people go, “Oh my god, yes, that would be great.” And I was like, “Awesome. Shoot me your email.” Then the next piece, what I did is, in the same outfit, like literally just right after another, I recorded a video. Raw, unedited, just me on my FaceTime camera on my computer.

Yeah.

That gave a little synopsis of the programme. So I said, “Hey girl, I'm so glad that you wanted to learn more about this.” That's also something I do, “Hey girl.” Because it sounds personal, but I don't have to change the name every time.

No, it can be really generic.

Exactly. I can use that.

Yeah. But it doesn't feel like that when you're talking to someone.

No. And I actually talk like that in real life.

Yeah, yeah.

So it's like-

It's totally authentic.

It's totally authentic.

It's who you are. Yeah, yeah.

I would say that if I was talking to you.

Yeah.

So I said, you know, “Hey girl. Thanks for wanting more information about this [inaudible 00:42:17].” I said, “Here's the deal. I want to share my heart, real quick.” And it was a five minute video.

Yeah.

“Here's what it is,” I went through the modules really quick. And then I said, “Let me know if you want to hop on a call, we can talk about this more. I don't know if it's the right fit. It might not be, but it might be absolutely perfect. But we don't know until we hop on the phone together. So if you want to do that, let me know, and we'll schedule something.” So that was that step, I don't even know. What was that, five now? So then, they say, “Oh my gosh, this is great. I want more information.” Then I said, “Great. Here's my link to my calendar, let's schedule a call.” So you can see all these little touchpoints.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That feel super personal. And again, I'm not sending these out to mass.

No.

I mean, it's probably about ten people.

Yeah, yeah.

Then I'm getting on that discovery call, and at that point, they're already sold.

Yeah.

It's like a no-brainer.

Yeah.

So that's, to me, the step by step process of gaining that trust, building that trust, slowing down to think about who do I want in this programme? And really connecting with them.

Yeah. I love that. And I love the call thing, most people would find really scary. But actually I think once you've had all those touchpoints with them, you know a bit about them.

Yeah.

You know they're interested in the programme, and at that point, like you said, it's almost just icing on the cake.

Well and here's what's fascinating. When you get on those phone calls, you don't actually talk very much. People are so excited to talk to you, because they're finally getting you.

Yep.

That like literally, I'll hop on the call and say, “I'm so glad we're getting to do this today. I've been looking forward to this call. Before we get to my programme, and I'll make sure that I answer any questions that you have, tell me about you. I want to know why you think this programme might be a good fit, and what's showing up in your life right now?” And then they just start talking.

Yeah, because-

They're finally getting heard.

Yeah.

And all we want to do is feel heard, and seen, and feel like we belong.

Yeah.

And you're giving somebody the opportunity to share their voice, and they already trust you.

Yeah.

And so they feel like they're getting to talk to one of their good friends. It's beautiful. So they just get to talk, and then you can go, “Aw, I love that.” That's just so powerful. You don't even have to give any real feedback, just, “I hear you,” and it's like, “Well, what questions do you have about the programme? Do you want me to explain a little bit more about it?” And you just kind of go from there.

Yeah, yeah.

But it's, you know. It's a 30 minute call, and it really is sweet.

Yeah. And, do you know what, I'm listening to all this, and obviously one of the things that I do, and have to do as part of my job, and not just me personally, but for clients, is launches. I've done a lot of launches. And I have a launch strategy, or one of them, and there are many different ones that you can use for different products, or different types of people.

Totally.

Or different whatever. But what I love about this is, there's no email series that you're putting together.

No.

There's no webinar, there's no Facebook ads. There's no-

Nope.

Lead magnets. There's no, you know, it's literally- and like you said, it's not that I don't, because obviously that's part of what I do, I totally believe in all that, but sometimes that just isn't appropriate, or that's not right.

Yeah.

And actually for your product, what you're offering, this was totally the right way to go, because in all honesty, anybody listening to this, if you saw a Facebook ad saying, “Do you want to join a coaching programme?” What's the chances of you actually ever going, “Yeah, all right.”

Yeah.

They're not going to do that.

No.

Because it's a very personal thing. When we did individual coaching, but we physically met. It was really bizarre, we ended up both being in San Diego at the point that I found Mary and reached out to her, and we met in San Diego, which was awesome, because we had a very personal conversation straight up. Then we had another conversation when I got back to the UK, and we'd had several touchpoints, and that was super important, because it was a very personal thing.

Yeah.

The same with the group programme.

Yeah.

Now obviously you can't do to the level that you're doing with an individual.

Right.

If you're doing individual coaching, however, you've just stepped it down a little bit.

Exactly.

But you're still giving them those personal bits, you've still given these conversations, you've still given them a chunk of your time. It's just less.

Right.

But it's still you, you personally, because like you said, and I think this is the other thing. When we're launching, we just want, well, we make the mistake of just wanting numbers. I just want to fill those spots. But what if you filled those spots with eight of the wrong people?

Oh, yeah. And a lot of people were worried about that.

Yeah.

You know, the people who were in there, like, “Well, who's going to be in this group?” And I said, “I am personally curating this group.”

Yeah.

Because I'm going to spend the next six months of my life with these eight women. I want to make sure that I'm going to enjoy them.

Yeah.

I mean, selfishly.

No, no, totally.

It's like, of course. And then it's like, also, will they work well together?

Yeah.

And that's where you just- I mean, the name of this podcast could be just slow down to connect.

Yep.

I mean really, it's like, having personal conversations, that is the name of the game. When you build that intimate trust, the sale is almost like an afterthought.

Yeah. Yeah.

It's like, “Oh yeah, let me just pay you this money.” It's totally different. I mean, it's really beautiful, and I think if you have a business that you can make more intimate, it doesn't have to be the exact model I'm using. Anything that is maybe not something that's a total online product, but if you have a VIP option for a course? Perfect time to do this one on one. I mean, you can implement this in different ways outside of just a group coaching kind of atmosphere.

Absolutely.

You can do that, for higher ticketed price items.

And also what that's going to give you at the end of this programme is the best case study.

Yes.

Because you've taken your time to bring the right people in. You've kept the price, that's important, because, and I won't lie, you were, Mary is a very good coach. When I took her on, I was punching. Do you have that phrase over here?

No, I was like, I don't know what that means, but I can imagine.

Okay. If you are a really attractive, no, you're very unattractive, and your partner's really attractive? Lots of people say that I'm punching with Paul, my husband. He's a very good looking guy. I think they're being very rude.

Yeah.

That I'm not as good looking as him, but it's a bit like that. I knew, and one of the reasons I wanted you as a coach, is because I knew that actually, you were at the level I needed to get to.

Right.

So I took a very, not risky strategy, but a very nervous strategy to spend a lot of money. More than I've ever spent on myself.

Yep.

In order to do this. But because I spent the money, I took it seriously.

Totally.

Whereas, I wouldn't have done that, the same as if my friend had coached me, or if my sister had coached me, and said, “I won't charge you.”

You would have done it-

I wouldn't have-

You know, half-ass.

Tote- not even that much, you know what I mean?

Yeah.

Whereas, you're not asking. You're doing it in a way where they're still spending the money, so therefore they're still invested. Because that's really important, isn't it?

It is.

If people don't put something in, whether it's time, or money, or whatever, then there's nothing in it for them to lose. You need them to put something in.

Exactly.

In order for them to go, “I'm taking this seriously.”

Yeah.

So you're taking them seriously, they're taking it seriously because they're paying. You've picked the right people, you're going to have a much better experience. They're going to have better outcomes, and at the end of it, you're going to have a programme that is just like, slayed it.

Oh, yeah.

And is amazing, which you're then going to be able to replicate, because you took the time this time.

Yes.

Rather than thinking, “I'm going to get rich quick, and I'm going to put 50 people in that group,” and then it be an absolute nightmare.

Ugh. No.

 

Forgetting About the Numbers

 

And not work, and people wouldn't get heard. You've taken it slowly, and sometimes that's really frustrating, and people don't want to do that, but when you look back at the people who have really succeeded, they're the ones who are willing to do those things at the beginning, and not just chase the kind of money, and not just chase the, okay, I want the big launch, and I want to be able to say I launched and I got 20 000 people, and they all paid this much money.

Yeah.

Because when we hear those people talk about these big things, and obviously I've talked about James Wedmore on here before, and he's done big launches, and made a huge amount of money. But do you know what? That is now like his sixth launch of the same thing.

Yes.

And he's done the same product, that he started small. It got bigger, and bigger, and bigger. So I think the problem is, we all look at that big launch thinking that's what we need, and we should be there right now.

No.

No, no, no. We need to go back to the beginning.

You can start where you are, with the amount of followers that you have.

Yeah.

With the small numbers that you have, and make a lot of impact.

Huge.

I mean, even if you have 100 people on your list, or 100 people following you on Instagram or Facebook, that's 100 people.

Yeah.

I mean, that's a lot of people.

Yeah.

And what if those 100 were devoted fans?

Yeah.

That's way better than having-

For sure.

10% of whatever it might be. It's like, what if you slowed down to connect with those 100?

Yeah.

And they followed you wherever you went. And they told their friends, and their friends told their friends, and it grew, and grew, but from a real authentic place of that personal kind of connection. That will set you apart like you could not even imagine.

Yeah. I totally agree. And actually, it's about putting the work in, and caring. I'm just sat here thinking about my audience, and my Instagram, and I know if I look, there are going to be the same people who watch my Stories. There's the same people who like my photos, and some of them I'll be interacting with, but actually I need to go and almost, like you said, write their names down, and be like, what am I doing back to them?

Yeah.

How am I connecting with them? What am I asking from them?

Yeah.

What am I trying to help them with, in order to then have that conversation? Because at the moment, although if someone comes to me, we're having a conversation, how proactive am I being going forward, and reaching out to those people who are being kind, and liking all my stuff. I love this, Mary.

That's a good strategy.

I love this, Mary.

I like it.

I love it. Mary, thank you so much for coming on. I love talking about this stuff, and I love the personal connection, because I don't like the thought of coming across like I'm just trying to sell stuff to people, and it's not like I really want to do something that is of real value to them, which I totally do, and I don't want to appear like that person who's emailing me, saying, “Join my membership,” when I'm already part of the membership. Just a little bit annoying, and doesn't feel very authentic.

No.

So I really appreciate you coming on today. Obviously I'm going to link up to everything to do with Mary, and she's got loads of amazing things that she does. She really is the most wonderful human being, so do please go check her out. Do go follow her on Instagram, because she does, she's just got this eye for beautiful things, as well. So do go check her out, she's amazing. Thank you so much, Mary. It's been an absolute pleasure to have you on.

I'll be on here anytime, this was so great.

Yay.

Thank you.

We'll have to go out to Nashville every time, then.

Right, yeah. Just fly out here, we'll do this.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Just every interview.

No big deal.

Thank you, Mary.

What did you think? I just love that. I had such fun. Honestly, I love Mary to bits. She's so, so fab. Do please go check out all her things. I've linked up in the show notes, so everything to do with Mary is over there. I thought she gave some great advice, not only around the coaching side, and like I said, I'd be really interested to hear your opinion on coaching, but also around doing that launch, with those small numbers, and loving those people.

I have to say, with my launch for the Academy, I went a bit old school on some of the stuff I did. I reached out personally, and yes it took ages, because obviously I was going through lists of people, and I was DM-ing them, and I was thinking, “Okay, who have I spoken to in the past that maybe it wasn't the right time, or they couldn't afford what I was offering at the time,” or whatever. I went back out to those people, and it paid dividends. It really, really did. So I really enjoyed this episode, and I think there's some great things that we can take from there no matter how big your audience is, or your email list is.

Like I said, I really hope you enjoyed this week's episode. I will be back next week with another solo episode. I'm really focusing on the more teaching stuff on my solo episodes. I want you to get tons of value from it. So I will see you next week, until then, have a great week.

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