Today’s episode of the podcast is an interview with Sarah Marie Anderson who is an email strategist and copywriter who helps entrepreneurs create lasting relationships with email subscribers through engaging welcome sequences. We talk all about email onboarding processes and how to do them, the types of emails you can send and when, the Fibonacci sequence, the mistakes people make when onboarding and how to sell to your list and what to do when they are not buying!
KEY TAKEAWAYS COVERED IN THE PODCAST
- Onboarding is a sequence of emails you send to a new person who joins your list – this often walks them through what you do and what you offer creating connection and engaging them.
- Onboarding can also give you an opportunity to get to know your audience more.
- Welcome sequences should be around 5-8 emails.
- When delivering a freebie – make sure you tell them how to get it and then set expectations for the next email.
- End your email with a teaser as to what is coming next – this will get them prepared for your next email and want to open it!
- Subsequent emails in your welcome sequence – intro email to you and your business (your story and your why), give value such as blog posts, podcast episodes, freebies etc, talk about your offer so they can understand how you can help them and how they can buy it.
- Ideally you should wait until subscribers have finished your welcome sequence before sending your main newsletters.
- If someone opts into multiple lead magnets at once – try to get all your welcome sequences to feed into one sequence after the freebie has been delivered.
- Don’t overwhelm your subscribers with too much information at once! Try to separate things out into multiple emails instead.
- How to use the Fibonacci Sequence for emails
- Don’t come on too strong when your subscribers have just met you – keep selling soft and explain more about what you do and how you help instead.
- Look at your email stats often – Are people opening them? Are they clicking your links?
- Go back and review the emails that have had higher stats – what did you do differently?
- Try sending a round up email with various links they can click.
- Do some research and get to know your subscribers more – give them a tag when they click so you can personalise more.
- Re-engagement email – click here if you are here still around!
- Ask questions in your subject lines.
- Two magic words to use in subject lines – “That” and “You”
THE ONE THING YOU NEED TO REMEMBER ABOVE ALL ELSE…
Don’t sell too much too soon – your email subscribers need warming up!
HIGHLIGHTS YOU SIMPLY CAN’T MISS
- An introduction to Sarah Marie 05:15
- Onboarding your email subscribers 9:03
- Onboarding mistakes that turn your subscribers off 22:36
- How often should you email your list? 29:06
- What to do if your email subscribers are not buying 32:20
- How to increase email engagement 36:37
- Writing a successful subject line 41:34
CHECK SARAH MARIE OUT:
2022 half day planning and goal setting session
Hello and really warm welcome to this week's episode of the podcast. How are things? So this week I have a really, really good interview for you. In fact, I've done loads of batching of interviews.
There are some absolute gold coming up. Like I've been finding some amazing people, some different voices, and I'm really excited for you to hear some of the episodes that are coming up so, so much good stuff. But before we get started with the interview, I just want to remind you about my 2022 planning/goal setting/mastermind session that we're doing the workshop that we're doing. Uh, I told you about it last week. It's on December the 8th. It's going to be from 10:30 AM to 2:30 PM UK time. And basically we're going to go through what you did last year as in this year. What year are we on 2021.
Also going to look at, uh, what you want to set goal wise for next year. And then I'm going to walk you through a number of planning exercises, which is going to get you really sorted on exactly what you need to do next year in order to try and achieve those goals. It's really important thing to do.
It's great to carve that time out. Come and join me and some other amazing business owners. And let's work all this together and get your plan starters that you can go into 2022 feeling so happy and confident in the right mindset to ensure you're set up for success. So come along for that, that's going to be a really, really good session.
If you want to find out more and sign up it's teresaheathwareing.com/2022planning okay. So that's that first off. And then next off, I just thought, as we're getting nearer the season of jolly and happy and giving and loving and that sort of stuff, I'd ask nicely if you haven't yet given me a review on your favorite app or iTunes, I would really appreciate it.
If you could, if you could go along and give me five lovely stars. Tell everyone what you like about the podcast and share it. That would be absolutely amazing. I would appreciate that. No end. Okay. So today's podcast interview is with Sarah Marie Anderson. She's an email strategist and copywriter who helps entrepreneurs create lasting relationships with email subscribers through engaging welcome sequences.
After learning a, after earning, not learning a BA in English writing, Sarah has continued to sharpen her skills and writing for clients all over the world. Since 2015, she has helped hundreds of small business owners create authentic connections with their audiences through email. So, you know, I love talking my emails and this is great because one thing I tell myself and I'm, you know, I'm going to say, it's a story I'm telling myself and it's not true and I'm going to change it is that I don't enjoy writing.
So it was really great to chat with Sarah Marie about all things when you're writing emails. So we went through onboarding process. What one was, what you should do, how you should do it, her kind of view in terms of the types of emails you could send and when. She also talked about the Fibonacci sequence and how that fits into sending emails, that was interesting.
The mistakes that people make when doing the onboarding. And then really excellently. We looked at how to sell to your list or what to do if they're not buying. And then we finished off with her critiquing some of my subject lines, which I was more than happy with. I kind of volunteered it because I think it's really interesting and it just proves that we all need to kind of think about this things. We need to go back to these things all the time. So it's a great episode loads to take from it. I think you're really going to enjoy it. So without further ado here is Sarah Marie Anderson.
Teresa: Okay. I am really looking forward to welcoming to the podcast Sarah Marie Anderson.
Teresa: Sarah, how are you doing?
Sarah: I am doing so great. I'm really excited to talk to you today Teresa.
Teresa: I'm excited because we get to talk emails and you may or may not know this about me, Sarah, but I am obsessed with people building email lists. So I haven't talk about building an email list. I talk constantly about building an email list.
Teresa: I speak on stages about building an email list. I, my focus tends to be at the beginning stage. i.e. you need one and how to get one. And what I'm really looking forward to with this episode is we're going to dive a bit more into sending those emails and how that might look and how we can manage some of those.
Teresa: But as I always do, I start by asking you to introduce yourself to my audience and just explain how you got to do what you do today.
Sarah: Yeah. So I'm really excited to be here. Thank you for having me. My name is Sarah Marie Anderson, as you've already introduced me and I am a copywriter and email marketing strategists.
Sarah: So I started originally doing kind of general copywriting and ended up niching down to email because I saw how powerful it was both like for my business personally. And I also just really love writing emails. You know, they're short, they're snappy, you know, compared to like a long sales page that can be like thousands and thousands of words.
Sarah: I love doing emails and sequences to where you kind of take that big, long sales message. It could break it out into little chunks that are like fun and easy for someone to digest. Um, I work with a lot of professional service providers, coaches, online course creators, all those kinds of people creating welcome sequences for them to kind of help.
Sarah: Get to know, kinda connect with those new subscribers that are join our list, excited to hear from them and helping them, you know, share their message with their new audience.
Teresa: I love it. So have you always been in this kind of space? Is this like, obviously you've done copywriting and various things. So was it always from an email point of view or was it other things?
Sarah: Well, so the first, my first adventure actually into this online business phase was I had an Etsy shop for a while. Like I started with a handmade shop. I was actually selling hand dyed yarns. I love to knit. I've been knitting since I was a kid.
Sarah: And so that was like my first sort of try and through that is how I learned all about online marketing, because I was like, okay, I gotta figure this out. Like. So like shares some of your traffic, but like, you've got to find out how to market outside of it. And that's why I actually started email list and I could see where I would send an email, I would get sales.
Sarah: So it was like really powerful, even with a very small list. I only had like a couple hundred people at that time, but I could also like, see the benefit of doing this and connecting with the people that had bought from you in the past, the people that were interested in what you were doing. So that's kinda how I got into it.
Sarah: And I fell in love with the online marketing side of business and especially copywriting. Uh, I have a background, uh, I was an English major in college, so I was like, oh my gosh, I can write and do all this like, cool stuff with this online marketing. Like one of my favorite parts of copywriting is the research part.
Sarah: So every project, I get to like dive into a new kind of radical and learn more about like a new type of business, new type of niche, new type of market. So that really felt like a great fit. And I started doing general copy, web copy sales pages, all that stuff, and really honed it on email as they went, because it just was the most fun for me, actually.
Teresa: Yeah. Yeah. And I think so the, one of the reasons I'm so passionate about everyone having an email list is one, it belongs to you, which is a key thing, especially like the other week where Facebook, Instagram, and WhatsApp, went down. You know, that doesn't help when you're trying to run a business through some of these places. And two, because it's that way of like, connecting with your audience.
Teresa: I love nothing more than them emailing me back. Like, and I encourage it massively. And my team know that if there's an email from my email list that has come in as a reply, they leave it alone. And I reply. And whether it takes me a couple of hours or a couple of days, I always replied. But why wants to get, because I think there's a misconception, right?
Teresa: Okay. We can build a really nice email list. We can create a lead magnet that speaks to a perfect customer, and then we get them on the list. And then what happens or what if like the engagement isn't very good. As, if not more important at that point, because you've gone to the effort of getting them so now let's make sure that they're good people.
Teresa: So let's talk about the onboarding process first. So when, when the fact that you explain to my audience, what you mean by onboarding.
Sarah: Yeah. We'll talk about onboarding, you know, sometimes I'll call it a welcome sequence or a nurture sequence. It's this like series of emails that you want to send to a new person that joins your list.
Sarah: And it's a really lovely way to kind of walk them through all the things you have to offer, introduce them to you, your world, what you're doing online, what you have that can help them and even do it in a way that is creating a lot of connection with them, engaging with them from the beginning, and really getting to know the people on your list also, because that is so important too.
Sarah: It can be a way to also learn about your audience, research your audience, and be able to create even more personalized stuff for them. And you're talking about replies. I love to ask for replies, especially in the sequence. A lot of times I'll do it in a welcome email. I'll ask people to replied, tell me how they found me.
Sarah: Tell me where they're at in the world. Even ask like a question, like, what are you wanting to learn about this topic that I cover? You can even do something fun. Like what's your favorite emoji hit me back. To get people engaging because one, you get to start these one-on-one conversations, which are so great and kind of the magic of email feels very one-to-one.
Teresa: Very personal.
Sarah: Yeah. It's super personal, even though you're sending it to thousands of people and then it also can help with your deliverability rates too. You know, people are applying to spam emails. So if you have a lot of people that are replying back. It's more likely than to end up in their main inbox, because it's something that they've engaged with and it's something that they're actually, you know, responding to.
Teresa: Yeah. So there's many differing thoughts and practices about an onboarding process and, you know, they all have merit. And, and for me, I guess when I teach it's about well try and if it works and brilliant. So what your thoughts. So let's say someone's opt in to one of my lead magnets and it's a lead magnet.
Teresa: I don't know. I'm just trying to think of the many different lead magnets out there. So I've got one about mindset in business, like in some of the mindset tricks and tools I use. So they've opted in, they get email number one, which for me is here's your thing, because that was the whole point they signed up. What, how many emails would you see in an ambit boarding process?
Teresa: And would you start, would you do anything else in that email zero almost, like, or would you just go, here's the thing and I'll see you in a couple of days.
Sarah: So usually when I work with clients, I typically find that the welcome sequences, those emails tend to be like five to eight emails, kind of, depending on what they're trying to do.
Sarah: And if we're doing any kind of segmenting or personalization stuff like that in that first email, I usually want to just like celebrate them a little bit like ‘Yey you're here. I'm so excited for you. This is what you're going to get to learn from this thing you downloaded.' Delivering a freebie, make sure it's very easy for them to realize how they're going to get it.
Sarah: Uh, and then a lot of times I will either ask a question or I'll set an expectation that we'll be in a lookout for my next email on and kind of do a little bit of a teaser so that they're more interested in what you've got coming next. Like that is fun to do with a PS. I love doing, it's the covering in term is called like an open loop or.
Sarah: It's kind of like a cliffhanger of like a TV show, like you and the email was sort of a teaser of what's coming next and that can help your open rates as the sequence goes on, that people are like, ‘Oh, what is this next new clip or trick or whatever I'm going to get from the next email.' And that's a fun way to kind of structure the sequence so that they're kind of like leaving a little breadcrumbs along the people like following up on.
Teresa: So we send the thing and then do you have a very specific. Like, is it number two as a introduce you, number three, is it, so what kind of things would they do in those subsequent emails.
Sarah: Yeah. There's a few different things that I recommend doing in your welcome sequence. You know, you could do it in, you make change around the order, but you definitely want to have an intro email, because when you think about this, this is probably, you know, one of the first times people are seeing you, maybe they've seen you on social.
Sarah: Maybe they've seen an ad. Maybe they've seen, you know, but they don't really know your full story. So I feel like, uh, an intro email, tell you a little bit about you, and then you can talk about either maybe how you got started. You can talk about maybe your why behind your business? Like what lights you up, why you keep doing this, talk about maybe your brand values, something like this, to help them have a little bit deeper connection with the name behind the email.
Sarah: I even like to do like a picture or something. That's just like, ‘Hey, here's my face.' You know, this can kind of have that, that deeper connection. I also love to do an email. That's kind of giving them a little bit of extra value, so that could be something like another lead magnet or freebie you created that could also just be like sharing your best content.
Sarah: Like if you have like your top five blog posts or your, you know, if you do a podcast, like you, you know, your most popular episodes, things like that, that people that are new to your world have not seen all of the stuff that you've created. So you can kind of help them find that good stuff with these emails.
Teresa: And so let's say you've done different emails over the way, and you're adding in these various bits. Do you go straight into a sale? Like, and I get that, obviously it depends on the product, but if it's an online product or if it's a lower cost product, would you attempt to go straight into a sale or would you not bother?
Sarah: You know, I like to do cramps on soft sell opportunities throughout the sequence. Like maybe in the, about you email, you can be like, Hey, or, you know, about talking your language, like check out my, you know, what I offer here and just like a link to things. So that's not like a hard sell, but you can pepper that in throughout.
Sarah: I also like to end, you know, or at least include somewhere in the welcome sequence, a sales email that talks about your offer, uh, so that people that come into your welcome sequence. Come into your email list. And it knowing what you do, like you want them to make sure that they understand what you sell, how you can help them and how they can buy it, whether they'll buy it right straight off or not.
Sarah: As you know, it kind of depends. Cause you're going to definitely have people that join your list with an urgent need. They were looking for you, they were researching what you do. They found you and they're ready to buy, but then there's going to be just as many people who are and that place they're in like more of the awareness stage.
Sarah: They're just kind of learning in there, but they like what you've got going. They will, they like you enough to stay on your list. They like the message you're sharing. So you want those to make sure that those people also are aware of what you do, even if they're not ready to buy at the moment.
Teresa: Yeah. Yeah. I like it. Also do you wait until the sequences over before you start doing your regular emails to them.
Sarah: I recommend you do a little for a couple of reasons. One, you want to just like, it kind of interrupts the flow sometimes of the newsletter. You know, if you have newsletters popping in and out, depending on, cause you want to have this nurture sequence be evergreen so that anytime someone joins the content is relevant, but sometimes you might be doing a launch or something in the middle.
Sarah: And if someone joins, like I have this story, this was a couple of years ago. I joined someone's email list. I got four emails from them within six hours, because they were in the middle of like the closing day of their launch. So like that their welcome email. And then I got these emails, like, why haven't you bought yet? You only have a few more hours.
Sarah: And I'm like. Yeah. So you want to like think about that in terms of like where the subscriber is. So that's why I love having, that's why I recommend that you wait on Sunday newsletters until they complete their sequence.
Teresa: Yeah. Yeah. Just out of interest. What email system do you use?
Sarah: For my business personally? I use Convertkit. I've used MailChimp in the past. I've used MailerLite. With convert kit for the last few years.
Teresa: And you like Convertkit obviously.
Sarah: I do. Yeah. How about you? What are you using?
Teresa: So I have used many, so again, I think most people start with MailChimp. Personally, I don't recommend that now. I don't think they've got what it kind of takes really.
Teresa: So for my audience getting started, I recommend MailerLite, although I've never physically used it for myself. I, because I teach the tech side in my course, I obviously know how to set up a lead magnet and a funnel and that sort of thing. Then I used Drip, quite like Drip. They were quite nice. And then I used Infusionsoft, like, wowses man.
Sarah: Yeah that was way serious.
Teresa: That is like hardcore email system. Also. It costs an absolute fortune. I paid. I think I paid more on that than what I paid to Kajabi now for everything.
Teresa: Yeah. So I think it was like $180 a month or something for that. That was crazy. And it's an amazing system. It's phenomenal. It's not very intuitive and you've really got to know your stuff and I'd probably use 10% of the stuff that had available to me.
Teresa: And now I use Kajabi and I'm very honest in the fact of Kajabi is not the best email system in the world. It doesn't do like funnily enough one thing I've really struggled to do is. And I, I, there is a work around, but I think I'm just gonna have to set the work ground. You can't ease would easily have people not go into your main list while they're doing a sequence.
Teresa: So it's not, it's not as clever as some of the others, but the reason I still use it is because it does everything. And having everything in one place really suits me and how I like to work. If I didn't have a membership. And I say this all the time. So when I talk about what system you should use, I tell people unless you're going to have a full on online business and you want to use all the other functionality I wouldn't use Kajabi. Like I love it and I promote it and I'm an affiliate for it, but it's gotta be right for you and your business or otherwise it's yeah, it's just a wrong sell if you're using it for the email only. So, so yeah, so like I said, there are much better systems, but that'll fit, to you. So anyway.
Teresa: I was just interested because obviously it's good to hear what people use.
Teresa: So let's say we built our onboarding system and we've put all our emails in place. Should. This is another question concern I have. So I have three lead magnets on my website. And I get people, believe it or not opt into all three at once. Like all the time.
Sarah: And be like, I want everything to be done.
Teresa: Yeah. Right. So, how similar, should my onboarding sequences should be bearing in mind that people can be in three at once. Like. Should I, because I had loads of lead magnets and there's lots of ways to get on my list obviously. And I've built that up over time in case you're thinking about it and thinking, geez, I've got to have all these lead magnets.
Teresa: No, no, go in, and start with one and then build, but should I have very different onboarding sequences for all of those lead magnets? Or should I use a similar one? Or what's your thoughts on that?
Sarah: Yeah, so. That is kind of a tricky one because w I'm gonna think about, okay. If someone, if I have very different sequences and someone joined all three and they're getting maybe like three emails a day for me, like that is overwhelming.
Sarah: Like that's a lot, but it's also depends on how similar are the lead magnets, like, are they all leading towards like a general sequence or are they leading, like, maybe this one is a lead magnet for this course and someone, you know, kind of goes down that way. This is where it gets kind of. I would probably recommend looking at maybe tagging and seeing if there's any kind of way you can maybe either delay a sequence or like have one, be your priority one, or have them all feed into a general sequence.
Sarah: That is.
Teresa: Just thinking that.
Sarah: No, that's what I've been thinking about as I, like, I have my main lead magnet, but I've been thinking about creating something new I'm like, Hmm. I think I would probably want to do general welcome email. And then they all go to the same sequence. So if someone joined each, they'd get like the main, first email, but then they'd only get one sequence going forward.
Sarah: Because to me, when I think about that experience I'd want for my subscribers, it feels like, oh, that would be way too much. If they've got like and think about this as you're setting these automations up is like, What are the different behaviors and what are the different outcomes if someone does this thing.
Teresa: And then the other thing I get all the time that I often talk about in my course, but also for me is I got people who are already on my list, who will then go and get a different lead magnet. Like you said, when I create something new, they're like, oh yeah, I'll have. So then if I'm doing the kind of welcome sequence, ‘Hey, I'm Teresa.'
Teresa: And they're like, ‘Yeah, I know you are because I'm already on your list.' So again, this is where, this is where Kajabi fails a little bit, and we're actually using something like Convertkit or Active Campaign. And I don't know enough about MailerLite, I know they have some functionality, but I'm not entirely sure how deep they go.
Teresa: This is where. In an ideal world. And I don't want you listening to this thinking, oh my goodness, I've got to do all this stuff because it's just overwhelming. But in an ideal world, when you start to get those multiples and you've got to think about some of these things. Haven't you?
Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. And that's something too if you have someone that's already been through it, you could maybe do a tag that like welcome see, what's complete it. That would maybe exclude that from going through it again, because that would be really weird to and they will think, ‘I already know you why am I getting this email? ‘
Sarah: You know, like six months ago, when I joined.
Teresa: Saying ‘Hey I'm Teresa do you know. I love gin.'
Teresa: They're like ‘Yes, Teresa. We did go on about it all the time.' Like exactly. Yeah. That's a good thought. So you've got some mistakes that people often make in welcome sequences that turn people off. So what kind of things could people do that make people go ‘No, thanks.'
Sarah: Yeah. I think one could definitely be overwhelming that with too much at once.
Sarah: So if you're trying to like fit in everything in your welcome email, like all, uh, you know, they need to know I'm here on the social media. They need to know I've got these courses. They need to know I do this, you know, like trying to just info dump on your new subscribers because you're like super excited.
Sarah: They want to, you know, you want to share all this stuff with them. That's where I like the idea of a sequence or serialized content, because you can really space this out and look at the amount that you're sending, like this is like not a hard or fast rule, but I generally like to keep my welcome nurture emails on the shorter side, like usually 500 words or less is I find a nice sweet spot because it's short, it's easy to digest.
Sarah: It's something that people are in reading their emails, they're in their inbox, all different kinds of places. They're, you know, out, you know, out and about checking email while they're watching TV, doing different stuff. They're not always giving your email their full attention. So I like to just kind of ease them and have one call to action per email, have one focus per email. And just like, kind of easily like that. That is definitely something I recommend.
Teresa: And is that why you would rather do five to eight than three and four? Because this is something I, I talk about and recommend that you only have one thing you want them to do.
Teresa: So would you, so let's say there were seven things you wanted them to do ultimately you'd rather them do seven separate emails than put two or three in each.
Sarah: Yeah. Or even if you had a few late, maybe you only have like three or four things you want to do, but one of them is to check out your website. You might want to do that in a couple emails, like repeat some things that are like super for it.
Sarah: Whether I book a call with you or visit your online shop or something like you can spread that out over more. But yeah, that's why I like to have a few more emails in. And it also just depends firstly, on your business, your goals, what you want people to do at this lit at the end of this sequence, I like to have kind of a big goal.
Sarah: And a lot of times that's more of like a sales focus goal, or like a connection, like, you know, sign up for a free call. But then I like to also ask people, what are some other things you'd like a subscriber to do in this list? And that could be, I want them to join my free Facebook group, or I want them to follow me on Instagram, or I want them to visit you know my website and see this blog post that's really popular. So those are kind of like the lesser goals, but we can sprinkle those in, through the sequence as we're driving towards that bigger, main goal.
Teresa: Sorry, just some one question for you. Carry on with the mistakes. What's and I know people will be listening to this now asking this question in their head, how often, or what's the distance you do between the emails. Do you say, and I totally get, and you said something really early on, which is really important is set their expectations, which I think is key.
Teresa: When people come to me all the time and go, ‘How often should I email?' I'm like, as long as you set the expectations and your stand to it, or roughly it, then you can do as much or as little as you want. It's up to them whether they want to engage in or have it. So what, what do you think is a good time between them?
Sarah: Yeah. So when someone first joins your email list, they're usually a little bit more keen, you know, they're a little bit more interested. So I tend to email a little bit more often at the beginning. So sometimes even daily or maybe send email one on day one, email two day two, and then maybe I'll space it out a day or two for email three.
Sarah: I like to send maybe two to three times a week, the first week or two, and then sort of space out to. Like, what is your regular email frequency? So if you're normally emailing your list, like once a week, then you can kind of taper that out to see about once a week. Like, I dunno if you're familiar with the Fibonacci sequence where it's like, um, like it's kind of like a formula, it's sort like a thing that's found in nature, but it's also something that people use sometimes for spacing out emails.
Sarah: So. Email one is day one. I, a lot of times I'll do a confirmation email, which would be like email zero and then email one, which should be so both of those emails would come on day one. And so then you add one-on-one to get to, and email two would come on day two and then one plus three would be the third day.
Sarah: And that's when you send an email three and then two plus three, uh, it would be day five. And that's when you sent an email four and then it kind of is how you keep adding the last two numbers.
Teresa: I like it.
Sarah: Think about. Um, so you have you look up the Fibonacci sequence. I think if you look up through Fibonacci sequence and copywriters and copyhackers might have something about it, but yeah, that's like a thing I've used and seen commonly. Cause it, it just kind of naturally can space it out that way where it's a little bit more at the beginning and then it just sort of tapers off very gently.
Teresa: Yeah. So it's like one day, one day, two day, three day, five day, seven day nine. So it's like getting slightly wider each time. I like it. I will check that out Fibonacci. And we'll link up to that in the show notes as well, if we can find something. Okay. So what are the mistakes can people make?
Sarah: The only one going to be coming on too strong with the sales.
Sarah: Like you want to remember where they're at in the journey with you? Like they're just met you, like, think about that as like, would you be hearing them down on the head with like, you gotta buy this now. Like you definitely need this now. Like or do you want share a little bit more about what it is you do. We can help maybe do case study or something like that.
Sarah: It'd be like demonstrating what it is that you sell or how they'd benefit rather than putting them into a full on sales sequence. Like some lead magnets. I think when themselves more to that, like if you have like a really high value lead magnet. Like maybe you have a recorded webinar or masterclass or something where they've spent a little bit more time with you, and then you like shared your offer and said, I'm going to follow up.
Sarah: Like, that is one thing, but if you're just like got a PDF on your website, like that about mindset, like that might not be the thing that then they go straight away into.
Teresa: Yeah there is that direct product that relates to that the ethos of mindset runs through everything I do. So it's not like, so I've got a How to get started building your email list.
Teresa: Now that very much sits with my build my list product. So yeah, I get that, that you know. But also not coming in too strong because of the fact that they don't know you. I always liken it to when, you know, like, have you ever done the old fashioned networking when you go and get a terrible breakfast really early in the morning?
Teresa: And there's lots of people in suits looking really, like, they don't want to talk to anybody. Like it's imagined that in real life. Like you walk up to go, ‘Hi, how you doing?' One week next week, email number two ‘Hi, do you want to buy my thing?' And they're be like you crazy, you know? And it's like, things like that.
Teresa: We kind of forget when we're online, because we feel like you know, we have to get straight in for the sale and not warm them up. So, so can I ask your email list, your own personal email list? How often do you email them?
Sarah: I have been working on this myself. You know, my goal is to email them once a week.
Sarah: And so I have been working on getting my Wednesday email out every week. So I've got mine scheduled for today. We're recording on a Wednesday. It's been a thing where I, even for myself, I kind of go in and out of consistency, but I know when I am more consistent, I see better results. I see better open rates.
Sarah: I see, you know, more people coming from that. It's been a thing though where sometimes life happens. And so I try to give myself a little bit of grace, like working on email for people that are getting started. I recommend. Take your frequency that works for you. I don't say like you have to email once a week.
Sarah: You have to email this amount. I recommend at least once a month, because that's like a good amount to stay top of mind. So people aren't like, ‘Who is this?' Like, I don't remember to my email.
Teresa: Yeah. Yeah. And even a month sometimes can feel like when you think about it only being 12 emails a year, it's like, oh, that doesn't sound very much.
Teresa: Let's see. I email my list three times a week. Like and initially I thought that would have been insane to do that, but it's fine. And I don't get that many unsubscribes. And if someone's unsubscribe that's absolutely fine. They're obviously not my customer and that's okay. But I always try and add some value and I do things on an open and close cart scenario.
Teresa: So when I open I talk sales, but the rest of the time I just talk value and this is called, check this out. I did this, this thing, you know, so yeah, I like, I like it when I don't have anything to sell. I much like chatty email to email someone about something that, you know, I've done or whatever as much for it.
Teresa: So let's talk about two things I want to pick your brain about. First thing is. So I was saying before we got on that people really get hit up over the numbers about like, oh, your list has got to be this big or whatever. And I constantly say, you know, it doesn't matter. It, it I'd rather have 500 people who loved me and wanted to hear everything I had to say than five thousands who literally couldn't give a hoot. When it comes at the, I want to go into the interview. And you can pick what you want to talk about first or what you feel first. I want to talk about selling in those emails and what if people aren't buying. So you've created this list and no one buys a thing from you.
Teresa: And I want to talk about what if you've got less than you don't think it's really very warm and you don't think like, It's really doing much, even though you might be consistent, you might have been emailing them, but for whatever reason, the list just doesn't seem to be doing much. So whether they fall in the same sort of thing, you decide how you want to take it.
Sarah: Yeah. I just want to mention something about the numbers first, because I think that this kind of like email gets this. It's been going around the online business world, where for forever. Oh, the money's in the list, the money's in the list. You just need an email list, but they don't talk about exactly what it takes to get conversions from your email list, because it's not a guarantee that if you have this many people, you're going to have people that are buying.
Sarah: So I know it can be really frustrating and, you know, hard way. You've got like thousands of people that are like, what, like no one bought anything on this launch, you know, I had like way below your expectations. So. We can start with talking about like, maybe like diagnosing some of that, like maybe what's happening.
Sarah: Cause that can be a really frustrating experience to have gone into all that work. So the number, the first thing I'd recommend you do would be to look into the stats of your email and see what you can find out from that. Cause maybe you can see where people are falling off. So you can start with open rates, like are people opening at the same rate as your normal emails or are, where are your open rates sitting at normally?
Sarah: And you can kind of compare that to industry averages like uh, average and the open rates are 12 to 25% depending on your industry. So you can kind of see if you stack up there or if you've got an engaged list that they're opening, what else are they doing with the emails? So that's where you can look at their click-throughs.
Sarah: Are they clicking on your links? Because they might be opening and reading through, but they're not following through to your website. So if that's what's happening, I would think I would look at those emails and be like, well, one of my saying in this, am I giving them like all the information in this email, am I giving them not enough information in this email and kind of like, look at is the call to action clear where there are a lot of links to click.
Sarah: Was it confusing and look at that why that might be happening. And then if they are clicking through and they're getting to the sales page. But they're not converting. You want to look at the messaging match between those two pieces of content. So is the thing you're talking about in the email consistent with what you're sharing on the sales page?
Sarah: Is there kind of, they're expecting one thing from the email and then they get to the sales page and they're not sure. Is there also, I would look into what is on the sales page. Is it enough to make a decision. Is it enough to sign up or purchase or are there things that maybe you could go into more like, you know, focusing more on.
Sarah: Benefits versus features. That could be another thing to kind of dive into.
Teresa: Okay. Sorry. I was taking notes, you know, I said before we got on, I said, this will be very casual. You know, the.
Sarah: We can just have a laugh, you know.
Teresa: Well honestly, I am a huge believer in like, we look online and we see these people do these things and we're like, ‘Oh they've got it all together. Like they are so good at this stuff.' No, no one is, it's just what they choose to show you. So I try to be really honest and you should, or you'd like, you know, the real life.
Teresa: Okay. So I think that's, there's some really good stuff there. I think. One thing we probably don't do. And I'm like literally writing notes as I speak about, and we need to work on this or I need to work on this. Um, I don't go back and look, and maybe I was just thinking about some of the sales emails I've written, you know, maybe I should go back and look at the ones that got more clicks.
Teresa: And what was it I said in those emails, um, You know, did that leads to anything else, but I think you're right. Trying to see where they're falling out. So what if.
Sarah: It's not going to launch debrief after you have like a push or a launch that you do and kind of look at, okay what were the goals before? What did we get?
Sarah: What was our conversion rate? And look at those emails. What were their best performing emails? What were our worst? And see if you can see patterns between them.
Teresa: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So what if, like, what if my list just isn't doing much. So I had a thing where I emailed my list saying, ‘You haven't opened an email from me.'
Teresa: And I got some reply saying ‘Yeah I do.' But for whatever reason, it didn't report. And I know there's lots of issues with reporting on open rates. So now I guess looking at click rates is much better because you can't lie about a click or you can't a click is a click. If someone's clicked, they've definitely clicked.
Teresa: Sometimes an email will say you've opened it and you haven't, or you have opened it and it doesn't report that you have. And in fact, what was fascinating is this woman who emailed me back who I know actually hit reply to the email that I center and it still didn't show that she had opened it.
Teresa: I know. Right. So that suddenly that gave me no faith in anything that I could see. So how do I know? Now, I do get lovely email replies, which is lovely, but obviously the number of replies I get compared to the size of my list is a tiny drop in the ocean. So, how do I know like, well, yeah, can I know whether it is a warm less than not, and then how do I re warm them back up again?
Sarah: Yeah. So, I mean, I think one thing to look out for your list, like to see if they're engaged is if they are clicking, if they're responding to your content, like even like it's fun to do. Just sort of like a Roundup type email with like a ton of links to be like, You know, just like, like when you're not selling, when you're like, here's some cool things I've found or here's some cool content I've created to just sort of see like, cause maybe some people are raving, but they're not clicking.
Sarah: Cause that specific email didn't get them maybe an email like this with a few different options and choices. And this is like, again for like a newsletter type email, you know? It doesn't have to be as focused as something that's more sales focused. That can be a way to see, okay. Like who is here, who is looking like, does that have a higher click through rate than normal, but then as far as like, You know, if you're looking at like cold subscribers that like haven't been opening your emails.
Sarah: I don't know if there is a way to tell if that's an accurate number or not without doing that sort of re-engagement sequence. And I recommend doing that for your cold subscribers and then seeing who you could warm back up. Cause there probably are people like that. And then don't leave in the people that don't respond and don't open, but I could see where I don't.
Sarah: I wonder how many subscribers that happens with that. They're like just not getting registered out. Cause that would be really frustrating. I think, as a subscriber, if you're like every couple of months, be like, are you reading my emails? Are you really reading my yet? Yes. I told you.
Teresa: And that was the problem because there's one particular lady who I know, in fact, she was an old client ages and ages ago so I, she knows me, you know, we've met in real life and she was like, ‘I do, I read all your emails. I don't know why you've just sent me this stuff.' And, and also because of all the iOS changes.
Teresa: Apple change all the time for Gmail stuff. Like we can't rely on open rates. We just can't, you know, we can't be sure.
Teresa: So the click thing is a really good thing, but of course, you're asking someone to do something and they might not want to, but I do like the idea of in fact, and again, like, so I am well by the time this episode comes out, I've no idea what number episode we are on. But the number of the, as we recall, this is 215 or something.
Teresa: So I've got a serious bat look of episodes and amazing guests and awesome stuff we've talked about. So I guess actually, maybe just a, an odd email, cause mine are, I like to describe them as love letters rather than newsletters. And I, cause I write to one person, I do one call to action. If there is one that I literally write with someone in my head or as if I'm talking to write it to someone. But I wonder if I do kind of need help with this. This helps need help with this click here. Need help with this click here and do like a whole list of, you know, various different scenarios. And then not only would that encourage more clicks hopefully, but hopefully that would give me some kind of data around what people are interested in or what. Especially if it was.
Teresa: You know, getting started stuff middle of the road stuff, trying to grow my business stuff, then that would have really help.
Sarah: And then you can, you know, mark those subscribers with the tags that you would know kind of more about them, something else as you were talking that I thought about that could be an option for like a re-engagement email is.
Sarah: You know, even approach it. Like my email service has been kind of wonky lately, and I'm not sure if they're seeing these emails, like click here if you are or click here if you don't want to stay on, so that you can get that data of like the click rather than just like approaching it, like it's, it looks like you haven't been reading my emails lately.
Teresa: Yeah it's kind of rude. Like what is wrong with you people. You've missed on so much of my life. Geez. How do you manage? Like, yeah, that is so funny. But yeah, and I think again saying that and saying, you know, actually we can't track these things now and I need to know or want to know whether I'm still of use to you. And if I'm not then don't click or click here to say no, and I'll unsubscribed you or you know, do the other thing. Um, I'm super conscious of our time, but this is like, I'm literally sat here is if I could get away with it, be like, could you just write me a onboarding sequence? And how would I say, and what would I put here? Like, just get you to just do it for me on a podcast. That would be very helpful to me, not so much to my audience.
Teresa: And what about, I just have one more question, just like I said, picking your brain subject lines. Okay. So I've seen a lot of stuff, uh, download a lot of stuff you know. 100 subject lines. We'll definitely get you open the blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And a lot of it makes me want to like scrub my skin with bleach, cause it's like ekk I don't want to do that.
Teresa: Like, so what what's I try and write really. I try my subject lines that are enticing, but I also try and write kind of factual as in like, not salesy yuck stuff. What should I look bit?
Sarah: Not click baity? Like stomach feels like.
Teresa: You wouldn't believe what I did yesterday. And like, what did you do?
Sarah: Overdramatic meant to be controversial. That kind of thing, like that is a certain kind of market or subject line.
Sarah: It doesn't fit for everybody. And that's, you know, you don't have to have that kind of subject line. I like to do sort of curiosity based ones. And with that, I'll do like a question, like, have you tried this thing or like, have you like the email I sent today, it was like, have you heard this song? And I'm talking about like a song that's been on my mind lately and kind of like using that as the way to get into the email.
Sarah: But, so I love questions. I also love using these I call them my two magic words for subject lines that, and you, so that is something where it's like, That this, you know, these things where you're not giving away what the, like, have you tried this trick? You know, it could be like a thing when you talk about the trick and the thing to, to make click bait is to actually answer that thing in the coolest, you know?
Teresa: So I always get these things that you won't believe how Susan Boyle looks now and I'm like, how does she look? I don't care. But for some reason I need to go and click on it. And then I can't find the picture of Susan Boyle, but that's click bait.
Sarah: We can click on like 20 slides it's not even there.
Teresa: Like, you know, they wish they'd never taken this photo and I'm like, what photo?
Teresa: And then like, come find it it's load rubbish. So you've right. It's only clickbait if you're not answering it.
Sarah: But yeah, I like to also use you in the subject line because people love to know stuff that's relevant to them. So if you kind of include that or write a subject line around how you can use this technique to, you know, whatever the benefit is sort of thing, and you can also do benefit based ones where you kind of.
Sarah: Use it where you're not like just summarizing what's in the email, but you're telling them like how to do something or like what they'll get when they open the email. And also if you want to get a little bit more advanced with this, if you're still trying to like figure out subject lines, it's fine.
Sarah: Once in a while to like AB test things and learn, like, what does your specific audience respond to? Do they like the more curiosity sort of, you know, clickbait things or do they respond more to those like benefits, straightforward stuff, because it's, it depends on you know your audience, the way you build it, maybe your marketing is more straightforward and that's what your audience.
Teresa: Like from you.
Sarah: You know, and so they might respond more to that than something that's a little bit more like shocking.
Teresa: Okay. So, I'd make things up as I go along FYI, which is why I'm not gonna like do this last thing. It's literally, I have a folder that I keep all my sent emails in that I send to my list because obviously I'm in my list, so I get a copy of it. So I'm going to read out some titles and you critique it, okay. Yeah. I don't mind being the person that gets like tooled apart.
Teresa: It's fine. So the one that went in this week said ever thought of a membership? Ever thought of having a membership? Sorry. I can't read my own email. How's that?
Sarah: Yeah, I think that that is a little bit basic, but also like not bad if you have people like it, it tells, and I'm guessing from that, if I'm interested in membership, you'll have something in there for me.
Sarah: So that could be something that would be very beneficial to the people in your audience that are like, you know, I have been thinking about it, but I don't know how to start. You know, maybe Teresa's got the inside scoop for me today. So that risk, you can go on behind the scenes look of like what it's like to have your membership. I don't know.
Teresa: So that was, I interviewed Stu McLaren, he, this week as we record as his interview. But like, so how would you assess that up a bit? How would you make that like, so basically I'm trying to say to them, go and listen to the podcast because Stu was talking about a membership. So that was my, kind of like in, for that.
Sarah: Yeah, so that I would maybe even use Stu's name in it because he is such a big name in membership. So you can kind of like use that like name recognition from that. So it'd be like, have you maybe like, also think about if there was like a kernel or something that you could pull from it, like yeah. You know, Stu McLaren's number one tip for memberships or Stu McLaren's like, uh, This is, this is where I I'll tell you this.
Sarah: When I write subject lines, I write, they are like the last thing I write and they take me like, not longer than the evil, but they do take time to do a good subject lines. Like I am not the person that like off the bat, but I also don't expect any of you to do that either. Like when you're writing your emails, I, I play around with it.
Teresa: I think you're right. I'm just thinking of like, some of the people I've had on the podcast and like, I've maybe not excluded the fact. Now I did put in the preview, I got to chat Stu McLaren. So at least I mentioned somewhere, but you're right. It, would it be much better in subject line. Again I'm going to give you another one.
Teresa: Okay. Why batching content saves me so much time.
Sarah: Yeah, I would say maybe that, that is somebody that maybe like how to batch content or how to save this much time a week and you know, how, or how I save this much time, and then make, instead of batching content in the subject line, because then they like, know what the email is about.
Sarah: You can kind of play with the, how I saved X hours a week, or how I saved this much a month kind of thing. And then the takeaway is I do my batching content.
Teresa: You're right. You're right. Again, I'm going to give a one more. Okay. One. When I think that was quite good is let's be realistic.
Sarah: Ooh, I do like that one. Cause that's like very conversational and like, you're gonna tell them it's straight in this email, whatever it's about. And this is the other thing too, that I want to talk about with subject lines. They are part of it. They are important, but it's also the relationship they have with you and what they see when they see that thumbnail that if they're like, okay, I'll read Teresa's emails.
Sarah: I know she's always got the good stuff. So like, what is this? Where something like that, you know, where it's not as you know, you don't have as much information, this, something like people are still gonna open it because they're interested. And they're interested in what you have to say about that topic. You know, that's a very curiosity you, I would say.
Teresa: Okay. Thank you. That was really helpful. And I think looking at my titles, I think I'm a bit too, because I am like trying to pull away from the salesy icky thing. I'm probably doing myself an injustice by not doing it a little bit or not, not giving it a bit of a twist.
Teresa: I'm being very explicit in my, my kind of subject lines. Like what content you're putting out there, why batching content can save so much time. You'll gonna do some training. Literally the most simplest, like this is what this email is about. There we go.
Sarah: Yeah, well, the thing the twist is like the kind of like secret sauce, the like kind of playing with them and see if you can come up with a twist.
Sarah: Well, you say feels good and doesn't feel kind of too like baby. Yeah. Cause icky, you're not going to feel a bit sunny but you warm to maybe play with it and see, is there a way I can push it? That's a little bit more than just like a summary of the email.
Teresa: Yeah, no, I love it. Thank you so much. This has been so helpful to me personally and to I'm sure the lovely listeners listening at the end of this. So thank you Sarah so much. If my listeners want to come and find out more about you, I was sending the link in the show notes, but where is your favorite place to hang out?
Sarah: Oh you can find me on my website. It's just sarahmarieanderson.com. You can also go over there and get on my email list and then say hi to me, an email.
Teresa: And copy your own building?
Sarah: You can also find on Instagram. I'm at servery global over there.
Teresa: Love it. Love it. Thank you so much, Sarah. It's been a pleasure having you on.
Sarah: Yeah, this was so fun. Thanks Teresa.
Teresa: What did you think of that? She was fabulous and I really enjoyed the conversation. Lots of good tips.
It's really made me kind of think, and I've tried to up my game on my subject lines. If you are on my list, then you might have noticed maybe, hopefully, if you're not, then please come and join me. I do try super hard to make sure I'm adding value every time. Okay. I'm going to leave you to it until next week.
It's a solo back next week. And don't forget to go check out that 2022 workshop I'm doing. That's going to get you all sorted for next year. And if you get chance doing me a review, that would be just wonderful. Okay. Have a lovely week. And I will see you next week.