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How to market more humanely with Sarah Santacroce

Today’s episode of the podcast is an interview with Sarah Santacroce, who talks all about
humane marketing and her alternative model to the traditional 7 P’s of marketing.

I always love talking about this sort of stuff, as I think it's helpful to have open conversations
about some of the marketing tools and tactics that are commonly used, because I have
fallen for them and I’m sure many of you have too!

What I really love about this episode is that we talk about how to actually market our
business in a way that fits with us, and Sarah has some really interesting takes on why we
should look at who we are, rather than looking at our avatar.

KEY TAKEAWAYS COVERED IN THE PODCAST

  •  What is wrong with traditional marketing
  • What humane marketing looks like
  • How to know when you’re doing humane marketing

THE ONE THING YOU NEED TO REMEMBER ABOVE ALL ELSE

Humane marketing starts with awareness, the fact you’re even mindful of it, is a great first
step!

HIGHLIGHTS YOU SIMPLY CAN'T MISS

  • The 7 P’s of humane marketing
  • How we bring more empathy into the business world
  • Why humane marketing is still about selling, just in a compassionate way

LINKS TO RESOURCES MENTIONED IN TODAY’S EPISODE

Sarah's Website

Sarah’s LinkedIn

The 7 P’s of Humane Marketing

 

TRANSCRIPT

Hello and welcome to this week's episode of the podcast. How are you doing? So we have an interview and if you listen to my episode last week, which hopefully you did, and if you haven't, go and take a listen cause it's, I was gonna say it's a good one. That always sounds so like full on.

Like, I'm so amazing. Go listen to it. No. It covers a lot of good stuff. Oh man. And also, I talk about what's happening with the podcast, which is the fact that my interviews are gonna be stopping soon. So I have literally after this one, another three interviews, and that's it. And then it's just me. So if you wanna find out more on why I've done that, then obviously go back and listen to episode 267.

But this week we have the lovely Sarah who talks about humane marketing and it's a really lovely conversation and actually probably quite an interesting one given. And I always taught love talking about this sort of stuff, and I try not to go on about it all too much because sometimes I think it can sound like we're being very negative and it's not that at all.

I think it's helpful to have open conversations about some of these marketing tools and tactics that are used because I have fallen for them and Sarah has fallen for them. And also what I really love about this episode is we talk about how to actually do it in a way that fits with us. And she kind of has some really interesting takes on us looking at who we are rather than necessarily looking our other task straight off the bat.

So I find that really, really interesting and she's so lovely and we've met a few times and I've been on her podcast and it's one of those people that she just kept being put back in my world and back in my world. So sometimes you have to go, I think we should be having a conversation, but it's a really, really good conversation.

I know you're gonna like it, and like I said, enjoy it. We've only got a few of these interviews left. So I will hand you over to the lovely Sarah, and I will see you in a bit.

Okay. I am really excited to welcome to the podcast today, the lovely Sarah Santacroce. Sarah, how are you doing?

Sarah: I'm doing great. Thank you so much for having me Teresa. It's always so fun to hang out with you.

Teresa: And we've hung out a few times, which is lovely and very serendipitous. Kept being thrown into each other's lives, and I love it when that happens. It's like, you see someone somewhere and then something else happens. You're like, Oh, you are here again. Like, or we've been put in the same space again.

So I just think that's the universe going in. No, you two should probably like have a conversation. Lovely. So nice. So we always start exactly the same way on the podcast where we get you to introduce yourself to my amazing audience by telling them who you are and how you got to do what you're doing today.

Sarah: Yeah. Thank you for that. You know, I used to always go back to the professional background and you know how I became who I am today. And now that I understand the importance of being and not so much of doing, I start with my hippie upbringing. So that kind of the story I tell now because, yeah, I grew up in Hippie Commune, a small Hippie commune here in Switzerland.

My parents and some friends bought an apartment building together and we really just colive during my whole childhood. So from age, probably two until I was, 17 and moved out, I grew up in this different way of living together, and back then, of course, I thought it was normal to me, but everyone else thought this is weird.

You know, people walking in and out of your apartment and you know everybody and you're always eating together and all of these things that we did differently. Yeah. Were, It's just very strange to other people. Especially I remember boyfriends, you know, like who are all these people just walking in and out.

Yeah. I'm telling that story because it really matters to me now, you know, I kind of came full circle with myself and, and growing up that way gives you a certain kind of set of values. And when I then moved away and kind of started on my own path and got into business, became an entrepreneur, I was so influenced by this business thing and how you have to be in business and you notice, well, we talked about this before, Teresa, kind of this online business and who you have to be and how you have to show up.

And so all of these hippie values really didn't fit in that picture that maybe I, I also created myself, but definitely felt like other people were giving me this picture of what it means to be a successful online entrepreneur, especially a marketer. Right? So really kind of coming full circle and, and saying, wait a minute. You know what really matters here, even if it's in the online space or, or it doesn't matter. Like what does really matter when it comes to your relationship with your clients, with your community and, and all of that.

And so, yeah, I, I feel like I'm coming back to those values that I grew up with and really fully showing up with those. And it seems like people, it was really scary coming out with that story. Especially on LinkedIn, right? LinkedIn is kind of like the mystic, very corporate. And now I just Yeah, absolutely embrace it and I feel so different from, you know, just even five years ago.

Teresa: That's so good. And honestly, like this is the stuff people remember. These are the things that like that's, you know, now I could probably spend the entire time of the podcast literally asking you about this. Cause it sounds fascinating.

And again, it's that learning what, you know, you knew no different. That was how you lived and that was your life. And that was, you know, and I know no different to how I lived. So it's just, I find it so fascinating to talk and learn and understand about how people live and how they work and how they show up in the world and, and I just think you are right, that kind of you know, upbringing to then go into something that's very business orientated and then into an online business that is very about the numbers and a very veiled attempt of being like caring about the people, when really you care about the numbers and when you hit those big numbers, it's almost impossible to give people that attention because it's just too big.

So tell me, so my audience, describe what it is service and, and business you have today.

Sarah: Yeah, so what I'm doing today, well maybe when I started I built a LinkedIn consulting agency and, and really just focused in on LinkedIn and helped still do with my clients today, but it's not something I'm growing anymore.

But you know, like LinkedIn profiles, how do you use LinkedIn for business? I trained in companies and schools, et cetera, et cetera. And so then a few years ago while kind of going through this okay, who am I? What's my story? And really kind of a breakdown cuz I remember sitting on a therapist chair and just saying, look, I just don't fit into this business world anymore or maybe never have, but I've been playing this game, wearing the mask and now I'm like, I'm done with this. Really not knowing well, what am I doing then if, if I can't do that for my LinkedIn consultancy, then what is it that I'm gonna do instead? Until kind of like a few days a, after this term, the gentle business revolution came to me.

So this idea of we need a revolution, which is kind of goes hand in hand with my hippie upbringing. You know, we need to do things differently. And the, the term gentleness, meaning like we have been doing things in such a kind of rough and business is business. Business is not personal kind of way that I felt like that's why business never worked for me or it just didn't work well for me anymore.

And I wanted to bring more gentleness and empathy and kindness back into, into marketing and business and, and so from that term, it then became the first book and, and now I call it humane marketing due to a trademark issue I had to go through, through some kind of trademark mess. But in the end, I found a term that fits even better.

I feel like instead of gentle, I call it now, humane marketing. So meaning, you know, humane includes the word human. So yes, it's human, but it's humane, which still means gentle and empathic and, and just kind of yeah kinder. So yeah, that's what I'm doing now. I'm basically creating a humane marketing revolution.

Teresa: I love that. So, so good. So let's talk about then, what's, I guess what you think is, you know, what might be wrong with traditional marketing, and then what does humane marketing look like?

Sarah: Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Well, there's so many things that I feel like are wrong with the traditional marketing, but I would say, if I had to sum it up, it really is this big gap between the human consciousness where we are now and where marketing is, and I feel like this gap is getting bigger and bigger between, you know, where we are in terms of how our consciousness has evolved, at least most peoples. And yet marketers and we as marketers are still using the same techniques. And I'm talking about the, you know, urgency strategies, the, the cookie cutter approaches, the last call and, and all these kind of things that feel very manipulative and maybe not very truthful techniques.

And so the, the conscious client today, sees right through this. Right? And that, and that's why they've done these surveys. And, and a marketer always kind of is the least trusted professional. Why? Because we have been taught and, and kind of brainwashed into using some of these strategies that are just not based on truth.

You know, some of them are based on human psychology and, and I don't think there's anything wrong with human psychology. But it depends how we use them, right? Yeah. How we use those techniques. And traditionally in online business, there's a lot of people who, who know about human psychology and then tell you to abuse that concept and, and, and only make it profit oriented rather than human oriented, which means, I know, you know, there is this tool, this technique that helps me get into my people's mind and, and kind of help them make a decision.

There's nothing wrong with that, but if you trigger their pain and shame points, then there's something wrong with it, in my opinion. So that's kind of the, the, what's wrong with it? Well, we're still using these old manipulative techniques that I think they've actually been blown up over the last 10 to 15 years because like what you said before, everybody wants to always go bigger and, and it's all about the numbers.

So obviously if you only want to focus on, sell more and go bigger, then yeah, you need to kind of but use these techniques that just are, you know, tricking people into, into buying. And so that's really the reframe that I'd like to offer. Let's use marketing, but let's use it for good, you know, because we do want to offer our services.

And a lot of my clients are healers and they, we have great things to offer to our clients, but, but not in the, you know, not using those techniques that are just shaming people and making them feel worse.

Teresa: Yeah, and I think there's so much here in terms of, well, first off, the first thing that came to mind is this is what you taught. Because I and weirdly, and this morning I was talking to my Becky's on my content team and I was like, And I'm thinking about my podcast going forward. What content do I need to do? And I said, I think I might go back and look at some of the podcasts I did and re-record them as in redo them because my opinion has now changed because I went through this process and I think you almost have to have gone through it, not now.

Now you can learn from someone else, but I went through it to then go, Oh, hang on a minute. This isn't me. Like this isn't who I am. I'm following the rules. I'm following what we're told we have to do. And I was then teaching some of those rules. And then suddenly I managed to get the strength and the power to go, Do you know what this, this isn't for me.

I don't, I don't feel nice. I don't feel this doesn't fit with me. It doesn't feel good. It doesn't feel good to meet or my customer. And actually it's not me. So I think like, you know, that's the first thing. I think we are taught these things and therefore you know, we need to and, and my job is getting my members to unlearn all the stuff that they've been taught.

The other part of it that's tricky though. And so I'm really interested hearing where humane marketing comes and what we can do, because the problem is some of these tactics work, right? Yeah. And that's the most annoying thing in the world because they're wrong, they're horrible, they're not nice.

But the reason people use them is because they are effective, right? And. The problem I have in my particular world is that I will get people who don't believe my membership is what it could really be because they have been used to a membership that's been sold to them in a slightly salesy sales tactic way.

I, you know, getting them in their. You know, discounting price to be fast and to do this. And you know, and again, I'm not saying I haven't done some of this stuff in the past cause I have, but I've changed. And so they might go into a program because they fell in that very slippery slope of this marketing style, or as we like to call it, like marketing quicksand.

They then buy the product, the product doesn't come to the thing that they want, or actually they've been let down and therefore they look at someone like me who is very ethical in how I market and genuine, and what I say I do, I do. And then they're all nervous to spend anymore money because they've been burnt already.

Sarah: Yeah. No, totally. And I think that's where our role as humane marketers really is on lies. It's, it's like educating our communities about what they've seen and experienced before and telling them, Look, this is what is different with our programs. And here we don't do any of that, so we need to have you, It's almost like we're, we need to empower our clients because they've given up their power.

A lot of them have given up their power because of the marketing gurus are just basically telling them, here's what you need to do. This is your problem. Buy this and you know, all your problems will be solved. Yeah. And so what we've created over the last 15 years is huge crowd of people who have given their power away to the marketing, basically. And so they're, they're not knowing how to make their own decisions anymore unless they're forced to, right? With the scarcity techniques. But the problem with the scarcity techniques, and the reason why I, I would really encourage you and everybody else to keep going with Humane Marketing is because it detracts the wrong kind of clients as well.

Right. If you, and you know this because you know some these big names. If you look at how they're marketing and they have huge communities and you know, programs and they always pick, you know, the one or two success stories, but they don't tell you that besides the one or two success stories, there's a thousand customers each time that have absolutely done nothing.

There's no success. They haven't even participated because they come with the scarcity energy and they sit in the scarcity energy.

Teresa: And then they're lost in that sheer size of it. Like even if they come in with all good intentions, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna get involved, and they get, they fall, you know, down the way. Then I was thinking about one of my members just the other day, and I thought, Oh, she hasn't been on a call for ages I'm just gonna DM her. And I've just remembered actually who it was and I need to do it. But I like the fact that I can recognize someone who normally turns up and shows up and hasn't done, and that I can think, Oh, I'll drop her a DM and just see if everything is okay.

Whereas like you said, you get lost in that massive, massive thing. And also depending on the environment. So I'm not saying all environments are like this, but sometimes the environment is very ego led. It's very, you know, kind of competitive. You know, there's lots of competitive bragging going on, and it's like, And also because what, you know, some of the mark, what some of these people want is they want these incredibly unbelievable testimonials.

So again, they're only putting perhaps their time and attention and only talking about some of the members that have done, or the students that have done the best, most amazing thing. Whereas actually, like when I think about some of my members who have been in my club for a long time, like some of the achievements that I am like most proud of would be, I guess, to some people, very small as in that member achieved a small thing.

But I know the effort it took to get them from one place to another and the work that went into it, and actually I know, although on the surface it, they didn't, you know, triple their income, but they're still in the job and they're still doing it and they're still showing up and they're still showing their face.

That is a bigger achievement. As the people I've been able you know, increase their income. So yeah, it's, and, and also it's not me, it's not me who doing it. Like yeah, I can help and yeah, I can give advice and support and pick you up when you're down and cheerlead you when something amazings happened, but you have to do the work.

And I think that's the other thing that sometimes in this marketing quick sound is that we think that this is the magic answer and it's not. We are always the answer. Yeah, we can learn some stuff. Yeah. We can have a community that helps us and keeps us motivated and accountable. But it's not, there's no magic bullet ever. I wish there was, cuz I'd have taken it flipping ages ago.

Sarah: So true. Yeah. The other thing that I was thinking while you were talking is, is this idea of, you know, how do I know this Humane Marketing works? I think the counter question is really to ask yourself, and it feels like that's what happened to you, and it definitely happened to me.

It's like you will know when it no longer works for you. The old BS marketing, you know, you'll just know it and you'll know that first in your heart and in your stomach, and then you'll know it in your mind and it's just, there's no going back. And yeah, and really I feel like, we're on a mission to, to change that perception and say, Well, maybe that does mean look at your definition of success.

In fact, that's the first part of humane marketing, and it's my marketing, like we're human bug. It's like you need to first look at your definition of success because you, you're just following the mainstream definition of success of getting to eight figures. Well, maybe then that's where you need to start and say, Is that really your definition of success?

Or again, are you just following what you're being taught in this marketing program? Because obviously, if you want to get to eight figures and you're now, you know, at zero, then yes, you will have to hustle like crazy and, and use those techniques. And believe me, you won't feel good doing that. It's, it's in your heart, you know, it's not the right thing.

Teresa: Yeah. And also, you know, and this is why you and I keep coming into each other's universes. Like this is how my, what my entire business and my brand and everything is about. It's your dream business. And it's like we need to really emphasize the your, and we did I did my first, well, not my first in person event. I have done in person events before, but they've tended to be like retreats, whereas I did a full day event.

Sarah: That's right. Yeah.

Teresa: And a nice event. And one of the things I got people to do, well, there was a couple of things that I loved. One of them was, I said different things and they had to stand up it if it applied to them.

So, and some of them were very practical things like the type of business they had so they could see the mix in the room. Some of them were very vulnerable things like one of them was my business has made me cry and like a lot of people stood up and I wanted them to see that to go, you're not alone.

But then the other thing we did is we did this bingo, and basically on this bingo thing was all different things that people might want in their dream business. So one of the things was, I wanna be able to do the school run. One thing was I wanna earn seven figures. One thing was I wanna make a change in the world.

I wanna retire my partner. I want to only work three days a week, and I did it. And they had to go round and find people who ticked one of those boxes because I wanted them to see that everyone's different. And you get to decide what your level of success is or what you dream successful.

Because yeah, the money is always lovely and you know, people always need money and I get that. But if you are working your backside off and you haven't had a conversation with your partner or your children in the past two weeks because you are a bit so busy and you can't make that party or you can't take the weekend off, then what is the point?

And do you know what? There might be someone listening to this going, I'm alright with that. And that is absolutely fine because it's down to you and what you want isn't it?

Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So important. I, I feel like, you know, when I started looking at marketing, so I went from gentle business revolution and then went, well actually I need to start with marketing.

That's the revolution I need for myself. We always create things that we must need for ourselves. And when I looked at every marketing program out there, it always starts with that client, you know, that avatar. And I'm like, Well, no wonder we're creating businesses that are not ideal for ourselves because we're only always focused outside of ourselves first.

Like we're creating a product and then we're immediately chasing after that client or that avatar. And so I said, Well, let's shift the, the approach and start with ourselves first. And like you said, it, it really starts with that conversation, Well, what's my definition of success? What are my values?

What do I really want to change? In, you know, in business, what am I creating that needs change? And, and so that's how I kind of reframed the, the seven Ps of, of marketing. You know, that, that's a concept that has been existing for a long time. But I, I just saw the seven Ps, the different circles and they kind of started moving and I shaped into the form of a mandala because a mandala is the creative process and I felt like, marketing is a creative process and, and then it kind of brings you to your center. And once you're in your center, you can market from within, you know? It's like, this is my marketing because it fits to who I am. And so it starts with passion and personal power, which obviously didn't exist in the 1960s version of the seven four Ps of marketing.

Teresa: Yeah. And so just talk us through those seven Ps that would be great.

Sarah: Yeah. So, so we start with passion. So passion or purpose. You know, why do I care so much about this business? And, and I do see that some people just, you know, when I, when I first started my LinkedIn consultancy, well, it was a, it was a, what did I call it? The convenience business, right? Because I had two small kids. I didn't really think about my why in Simon Sinek and all of that. It just needed to bring in money. And that's fine I think, for a lot of people. But eventually I think you do get to the point where you're like, Well, if I'm gonna do this for, you know, many more years, and I really need to be able to market it and market it with joy, then I think I need to come back and figure out, well, what is my passion or purpose and my why? So that's the the first one. Personal power is what we just talked about. Let figure out who you are. So for me it's that hippie upbringing story. For you it's another story.

Who are you? Because, you know, we always been told that client, the client is king and clients don't really care about us. I think that is just not true. They do care about us. Right? They care about our stories because it connects them to who they are. Where yeah, they don't care how much money you're making and you know what kind of education you have, they care less about that.

And yet, if you listen to the traditional hero story, that's all you hear. It's like, look at me how I built this, you know, successful business. People care less about that than their worldview and the values and what you stand for, right? So that's what we're discovering here. And then we're ready to go to people.

That's when we figure out, okay, who am I resonating with? Because it's really like switching the thing, instead of chasing after our clients. We start with ourselves. We bring that to our marketing, and then the right kind of people will, will resonate with us.

And then the, the traditional ones like product or service. Yeah, that's still needed. Pricing, of course, promotion as well. And the other one I brought in there was partnership because I feel like going forward that's gonna be the main marketing thing. It's what we're doing right here. You know, we're partnering on a podcast and I think so long we've been in this competition mode where, everybody does their own thing and yeah, you know, we kind of used webinars, but it was always still profit oriented rather than partnership oriented.

So I feel like the new business paradigm is all gonna be about how can we both win, you know? And I always include the planet as well because, you know, given the situation we are in right now, we need to really create sustainable businesses that are sustainable for ourselves, Yes. But also for the world at large.

Teresa: Yeah. I love all of that. And I think just touching on the partnership bit. I think what's interesting, and I'd be interested to see if you've gone through this as well, there are people who I had in my world previously who now I distance myself from because they don't stand for what I stand for.

And they don't market the way and not necessarily have to market the way I market, but they don't market with the same, the same humaneness, I guess, that I try to market or the value's not in it. Like the, you know, they're marketing the way they're marketing, but actually the product isn't as good because they actually don't care once you've bought. And so for me, there are people where, and actually I had to go through a really specific aim to find new people. Like I had my people, and I'm not saying that all of them were like, Yeah, no, good name. Definitely still huge chunks of them that I'm like, You're brilliant. I love you.

And obviously there was a reason I was attracted to you in the first place, but there are people within my world that I had a lot to do with that, now I'm like, not so much now. Yep. Because we are not fitting. So then I had to actually go and go, Where will I find my people? Where will I attract the right people?

And but also, again, coming from a, I'm coming from a point of view of just having the conversations with people not expecting I wanna sell to you or you are my perfect customer or just literally going, I just wanna have a conversation with you. I just wanna get to know you and, and I think one of the things that I learned, which if people listen to the podcast, and I think you and I talked about it previously, was that I was taught that if you're an online business, they don't get to speak to you.

They don't get, you know, you are not available to them. And I really had to have a word at myself after, but of course I was doing what I was taught. And I thought, Oh, well if I wanna be this big amazing online person, this is what I've gotta do. And then I was like, Yeah, but that's not actually what I'm like, I'm actually really, In fact, someone wrote on a live this morning that I was very generous and kind with my time and it's like, cuz that's who I am.

So then it's now it's like how I just reach out to anybody and I'll DM them and have a conversation. And I just wanna have a conversation with 'em. I just want some people in my world who are like-minded people. How do you, So I just wanna get a little bit practical for a second. So I totally, everything you've said, I totally buy into and I, and I can see it now. It's happening, it's slow. It has been slow, but I can see all the work I've been putting in is finally drawing the people, more people into my world because of it. Because I've shown up authentically and consistently and been the person that I am, that it takes a while and then people are going, Yeah, okay, great, you are for me.

But what if someone's listening to this and they're like, I just really need a sale. I really need the next sale. And isn't this a long game? Like how do I, how do I use humane marketing while trying to get the next sale?

Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. Can I come back to that just in a second? Because I just wanna comment on, on the people thing. And I, I do agree with that. It's almost like, to me, it really feels like I'm starting over. It feels like I'm building a complete new business with complete new people, new clients as well. Even though, a lot of my loyal people, they're still there cause they always saw through, you know, some of the techniques I was using.

They're like, Yeah, but you know, we know you. I know you're just using those tools and techniques, but we know. But, But yeah, complete new partnerships, complete new people I'm collaborating with and it's just so encouraging to see, and that's why I feel really this connection with you, that people like you are going through this as well.

And just yesterday, I'm getting goosebumps. Just yesterday I got a, a LinkedIn message from one of those people who, you know, previously I was kind of in the circles with and lots of marketing stuff and, and so she's contacting me about the circle, right? My humane marketing circle, the community. She's like, If I feel like I need this now, this, I've come around and, and, and so I'm like, oh my God! You know, slowly but surely people aren't waking up to things being wrong and they're not feeling good in their own skin. So just wanted to, to share that, that eventually, I think your people from the past will hopefully also come around and say, you know, how did you do this, Teresa? How did, how do you, you know?

And, and yeah, it is, is a right. It's a, yeah, it's a, it's really a transition. And what I talk about in the marketing, like we human book is, is this idea of a slow transition. You know, we don't, anything that is sustainable takes a bit more time. And like you're saying, you're taking the time to talk to people.

Why? Because it takes time to trust. And so if you're giving them, you know, these, this half hour one on one, you know, imagine what that does for the trust. And so it takes time to, to do this transformation. And what I would say though is I kind of give the analogy of the Chinese bamboo tree, which is this tree that apparently water and water for like years, apparently up to five years and nothing happens and you're just kind of nurturing, watering, and then all of a sudden overnight it kind of shoots up.

Like can't remember, like two meters, like amazing. Right? And that I feel like really is what's happening with, with our marketing, you know, it takes that much time for people to see the new Teresa, to see the new Sarah, to feel it, to really feel heard and seen, and then eventually, you know, they're, they're ready because they're all on their own path of unlearning these, you know, pushy marketing the things that they're still seeing in other people's communications. And so it really is this idea of keep nurturing and while you're nurturing, you know, I don't want you to be in a difficult financial situation.

So I would say start, you know, or, or quit some of the most. A horrible strategies that you feel like, Oh, I definitely don't wanna use this anymore. You know, maybe get rid of some of the partners that you've been working with, but still make sure that obviously you are safe financially. So kind of we need these things off gradually over time, once you start to feel more safe and secure financially, then you'll, you can do the full transition.

Teresa: Yeah, I think you're right. And I think you know, whether it's just because we attract the right people in our world. So when I think about my members, they're doing it. They're doing the nice marketing, they're doing the, they care deeply and passionately about the thing they do and the difference they make with people.

And I think, you know, the minute you open to kind of seeing that more people will come into your world, and I've always said like, I'm really lucky. I've got an amazing community who are just the nicest people. And whenever I say that, you know, they very kindly go, well, it's you. They, you know, you are the one who attract them.

But they are, they're really lovely. And actually anybody, again, we've just had an insider experience, so, you know, people can come and have a look in the club, what we do. So I've done a live this morning with some members to kind of talk about, you know what they like about the club, and just in case anybody is considering joining. You know, answer some questions, have a chat about it. And then you know, one of the things that they said is the fact of the community that's there and the conversations and the fact there's no ego. And I said, suggest, and if, if someone comes in with an ego and someone comes in with wanting to be sleazy and just make loads of money, they don't last very long because they realize this is not the place for them.

And not that like, you know, we're not kind and welcoming, we totally are, that's the whole thing. But just, because no one is like that. So I think it's so important, isn't it? But, and also, again, you know, I look at my business and I've coached people who have grown quicker and faster than I have.

However, I don't wanna use some of those tactics. So that's fine if they want to, and that's okay with them, but it's not for me. And actually I think when you, when you market the way we're marketing one, you don't just have a sale, you create a lifelong fan, like a lifelong person who will always wanna be in your world.

And you know, again, one of the members said this morning that like, you'd literally have to prize this club outta my hems. It would be the last, It's a non-negotiable in my budget. Like it's not a time to get hard. I'm gonna get rid of it. This will be the last thing. And that is phenomenal. Like, so I know it can probably be frustrating for people cuz it does feel a slow game and someone else might be doing it.

You know, tactics that get them the sales really quick and you might be thinking, you know, I'm gonna have to do that. It does feel a slow game, but actually, I, It's all about creating my version of success, and I would not feel a success if I was selling that way to people.

Sarah: Yeah, exactly. I think it's all about integrity and how important integrity is for you. If you look at your values and the top five values, a lot of our people probably have integrity as one of the, you know, top 10 values. Just you cannot yeah, you cannot sleep at night if you feel out of integrity.

Teresa: Yeah. So I'm so conscious at home and I'm loving the conversation, but I just wanna finish off with what if someone's listening to this and thinks I wanna bring more humaneness into my marketing, What could they do to start doing that? How would they know what to do?

Sarah: Mm-hmm. ? Yeah. I think it really starts with awareness, and I feel like if you're listening to this podcast, it's almost like you cannot unhear what you've heard now, right? So every time you see a sales page, every time you get an email, you will remember this conversation and feel into, does this feel good?

Yes, I understand that this person is marketing to me, but does it feel good? Do I feel like I'm empowered to make a buying decision? Because that's still our role as marketers. I just wanna make this clear. That as marketers and business owners, we do marketing, yes, to make sales, right? And so we're using some of these strategies, but in a compassionate way, but we still need to kind of nudge people to help them make a decision because otherwise, unfortunately also what's been happening, like I mentioned before, this disempowerment and so a lot of people don't know how to make these decisions anymore.

So yeah, awareness kind of comes first. And then just remember that it's not so much about the what you do. So whether you are creating reels on Instagram or Facebook ads or webinars, it's about the intention of why you are doing it and how you do it. So it's all about the little words almost, you know how you say it.

I kind of took a good look at my, all my emails and my website and some of this old language is, was still on there, right?

Teresa: Mine's probably the same.

Sarah: I didn't look at yours. But yeah, it's just these old things that were like, Oh yeah. Like one thing I remember that a client actually kind of pointed out to me cuz I didn't even notice it, she's like, On your homepage it says, grab your one page marketing plan. She's like that word grab, it gives me the hibbie-jeebies it's like this, you know, scarcity thing where you need to grab something fast before it goes away. I'm like, yeah, interesting. No way. I think get is, you know, has the same intention but it's much nicer to, so it's all about these little details about how you formulate it.

So just think whenever somebody gives you a template, cuz there's lots of people out there with templates. Use it, but don't just copy, paste. To really think about the words that they're giving you is that's gonna be your brand. If you want to put out that again, that scarcity energy that a lot of these marketers put in those templates and phrases and things like that, rephrase everything, use the same approach, but rephrase it and think, you know, how does this gonna make this person feel?

Yeah. We talk about, you know, the pain points and things like that. Yeah. You want to mention that they have a problem because that's how they recognize… Exactly, but you can do it in a nice way and you can do it in a very pushy and kind of shameful way. So yeah. Yeah, that's, that's what I would tell someone who's kind of new to this idea and there's a lot of things to unlearn, quite honestly.

Teresa: Yeah. And I think the only thing I would add to that is, is be gentle with yourself as you're doing this. Yeah. Don't you know, like Sam, I said, you know, this has been a long process that we have been through and are still going through, and like you said, if I go and look at my site and I haven't done for a while, I'll be confident that our stuff on there that I think…

Sarah: Oh yeah, that is same here. I'm like, you know, looking at some of the, like I actually shared in the, in the book, I'm like, Oh my God, if you go to my old LinkedIn website, you'll find the LinkedIn recipes for success. You know, it's like, here's the cookie cutter thing. And yeah, there's a lot of things that we have been taught and that everybody has been taught that. It's just a, I think it's just time to look at those things again and bring more of you to, to your marketing.

Teresa: Yeah. And I think if you're, the fact that you're now even mindful of it. I think that's the first great step. Like, you know, just to actually think, is this me? Does it fit? Is this, you know, do I like this?

And my coach asked me the most amazing question when I was having a bit of a meltdown with there about online marketing and being an online business and how I hated the industry, but I adore my business. And honestly, I, I don't ever wanna do anything else. And sometimes my husband, you know, goes, you're working too much for the money that you bring in.

Like, you know, you work way too hard. And it's like, yeah, but you also have to caveat that with, that I love it. Like, yes, I work hard, but I adore what I do. But she said to me, I was like, how am I, what am I gonna do? Because these tactics work. This is what people do. And she said, How do you wanna be sold to?

And I was like, Oh, that's such a good question. And I said, I wanna be seen. Yeah. And she was like, exactly! There you go, that's what you do. So now my motto, which I stole from her, and I openly say I stole from her, is that I see you, I hear you, you matter. And I think that's my marketing. That's what I'm trying to do in my marketing.

Sarah: That's so good. Yeah. And I would add that to the awareness piece because it's always. Two sided, right? It's once you are the entrepreneur who's marketing to your clients, but then you're also on the receiving end. And so that also means become aware of the marketing you're receiving and you know, give yourself permission to unsubscribe from these emails that don't make you feel good anymore.

Teresa: Yeah, I love that. So, thank you so, so much. It's been so lovely to have you on. Where can people come and find you? Obviously we'll link everything, the show notes, but where do you hang out most?

Sarah: Yeah, so my website is humane.marketing and I'm still mostly on LinkedIn. So you can find me there and connect with me. And if you're curious about the seven Ps of Humane marketing, you can go to humane.marketing/1page the number one and the word page. And that kind of comes with the one page marketing plan and seven emails to really make you reflect on these different Ps for your marketing and business.

Teresa: Awesome. I love it. Thank you so much, Sarah. It's been an absolute pleasure.

Sarah: Likewise. Thank you so much for having me, Teresa.

Teresa: Okay. That was lovely, Sarah. Hopefully you got a lot from that episode. I really enjoyed it. It was such a nice conversation. So if you want to connect with her, all of her links are in the show notes, so please do go check her out.

Let's know what you think. Share on social, and if it's been, well, it's been a while since I've asked you to do a review. I'd love you to do a review on the podcast. So if you have five minutes, please go and give me a lovely five stars and tell me what you like about the podcast. Okay? Have a great week and I will see you next week.