Today’s episode of the podcast is an interview with Jane Walters, where we chat about all things finance and money.
Jane is a former financial planner turned financial and money mindset coach. She helps women transform their financial lives by teaching them the practical tools to manage their finances as well as supporting them to uncover and change their relationship with money.
She brings nearly 20 years’ experience in the financial services industry, in both Australia and the UK, and extensive training as a Neuro-Linguistic Programming Master Practitioner and Meta-Coach.
She believes very strongly that when women have more money the world will be a better place for everyone.
We talked about what money mindset is, the relationships people have with money and how to overcome deeply ingrained beliefs that are keeping you from the life (and wealth) of your dreams.
KEY TAKEAWAYS COVERED IN THE PODCAST:
- How mindset and manifesting works together with practical action.
- How our relationship to money affects our ability to earn, spend and save money and how it can help us create the amazing life we want.
- Why we need to be efficient with how we spend our money, but also be able to see where the opportunities are.
- Why investing in yourself as a business owner is necessary to grow your business.
- Why debt isn’t always negative, and the need to differentiate between ‘good debt’ and ‘bad debt’.
- How to know when and when not to invest in something for your business.
- How and why money issues show up differently in men and women.
THE ONE THING YOU NEED TO REMEMBER ABOVE ALL ELSE:
It’s important to be efficient about how we spend our money, but if we want to grow, we also need to see where the opportunities that are worth investing in for our business and for ourselves are.
HIGHLIGHTS YOU SIMPLY CAN’T MISS:
- How to be strategic in spending your money, but not missing opportunities because of being too scared of risk.
- Why you need to reframe fear around money management to empower you to make better decisions.
- Why we need to be kinder to ourselves about the things we don’t know about money.
Hello, and a super warm welcome to this week's episode of the podcast. How are you? So we have an interview this week with the lovely Jane Walters. Jane is a financial coach and talks all things money. But what I really love about this conversation and Jane's take on it is Jane comes from an almost financial background, a very practical money background. But as interweave, this money background with now, things like the money mindset. And we talk about things and I joke about the film, the secret. I dunno if you've seen it or read the book and, you know, I love a bit manifesting, you know, I'm totally into all that, but in that film, It shows this thing of this guy, literally waking up and wishing for a Lamborghini or something.
And then the next day it's there on his drive. Like yeah, no, I don't think that's true. So. What I really love about it is that she talks about the kind of good money mindset, things that we can do in terms of the slightly woo side, but also teams up with a bit of practical stuff, which again, for me is, is a really good way to look at this.
So if you're not feeling the money mindset from a, from a woo side, then you're gonna have something to listen to. And if you do feel it, then you're gonna have some practical stuff as well. So she is a really, really good expert on this, and I'm excited for you to get listening to her. But before I play the interview, I wanna remind you that if you do like the mindset side of stuff, which I do, and honestly attribute most of my success to doing mindset work.
This is something that we regularly look at in the club and it's open to all levels of members. So we do mindset exercises on things like values. Like how do you work at your values? So you know that you're in align with them and everything just feels nice and much easier. We do things about reframing a mistakes that maybe remain in the past.
We look at things like imposter syndrome. We look at meditation, we look at all these amazing things and there are all these different trainings that I've already done in the club. So when you join straightaway, you can dive in and do as many of them sessions as you want. So if you are interested, please go and check out the club at teresaheathwareing.com/theclub .
Okay. Time to listen to the amazing interview with Jane. Here she is. Okay. It's my great pleasure today to welcome to the podcast Jane Walters, Jane, how are you doing?
Jane: I'm great. Thanks for having me.
Teresa: Thank you for being on. And we, we have found a time that works, cause as you can hear by Jane's accent, she's not in the UK. So tell us where you are Jane.
Jane: Well, there are lots of Aussies in the UK. Let's be honest, but I am from Sydney, Australia, and yes, it's evening for me, but yes.
Teresa: And it's fairly early morning for me. I've managed to get up, put my face on, do the school run. I haven't fed the dog. I just remember that I need to feed the dog.
Okay. it's, I'm used to doing this quite late. Yeah. Well, this is the thing you, you have to juggle a lot when you, you know, doing all this stuff, being a parent, it's, uh, not an easy task. But anyway, Jane, we always start the same way by you introducing what you do and how you got to do what you do. So if you were happy, that would be wonderful.
Jane: Yeah, for sure. So my name is Jane Walters. I I'm a financial coach and I'm also a money mindset coach. So I help women to create wealth, um, by dealing with, um, a lot of the mental or emotional kind of blockers that keep them stuck. So, um, I used to be a financial planner. I've been in the financial services industry, my whole career, and.
I, I ended up getting a bit frustrated with the industry for a couple of reasons. Um, one is very male dominated, and I think that tends to turn a lot of women away. And I think that got me quite frustrated because there were a lot of people who would come in and even couples who would come to see me, but often it would be the man who was directing it.
It's a husband who was, you know, taking control of things. And I really wanted more women to get more interested and involved and understand that isn't just a man's world. Um, and also I think that part of what financial planning ignores is the fact that we are an emotional, we are emotional beings. And so our behavior around money is related to how we think about money and how we feel about money and what we think about ourselves as well.
So that's like the relationship to money side. Um, and so for me coming from, you know, a point of, of loving the personal development world, but also seeing this big need on the, you know, financial side and especially around women is bringing those two things together, which is how I ended up here.
Teresa: Mm. So the, this is really interesting that you came from that finance world and then married it because sometimes do you find that.
For me anyway, speaking to you, that gives me some more credibility of you. Like that makes me think because sometimes when we think of like the mindset on the money side. I have like a bit of a love-hate relationship with it. Like, so have you seen, uh, now I've not read the book, but I've seen a bit of the film, the secret, and it's like.
And it's basically like, you know, just, just wish for a Lamborghini. It's gonna turn up on your drive. Like, and it's like, yeah, yeah, no, that's not, that's not gonna happen. And it's kind of the same with the money mindset thing. Like there are points of money mindset that feels like, just go and do that thing.
The money will come. And it's like, almost like there's an irresponsible level of money mindset. So how do you. How did you kind of match and marry the two coming from a very responsible, practical way, and then on the money mindset side?
Jane: Yeah. Um, so for me the mindset stuff, I mean, I personally, I like a little bit of woo.
You know, I think that it's important to bring in, like, just to understand that there are things limitations in science and in the real world that, you know, we can't explain and that's totally fine. But I also think, I think that things like your mindset and, you know, manifesting things doesn't have to be as you know, crazy and woo, woo.
And out there as what we think it is. Like the idea of the secret and just saying, oh, I, I wanna, I just want to think positive and this thing will happen. It's actually, if we break that down and look at what law of attraction is, it's let's understand that a lot of our, a lot of how we, um, behave is driven by how we feel and our, how we feel is driven by our thoughts.
And we have the ability to, you know, get underneath those thoughts and understand them and to change them and to think things on purpose that are gonna support. The kind of, um, I guess the kind of, um, thoughts and feelings that are gonna create action. So it has to be action. And that's where I like to marry the two in that we have to have the practical action, but we also really have to address the mindset stuff.
Because they work together. And a lot of, I find a lot of my work is in balancing and I tend to see that in the world quite a lot in balancing the masculine and feminine and balancing the practical and emotional it's like balancing the two and yeah. Also leaving a bit of room for that magic or the, you know, we were kind of energy as well.
Teresa: And you you're so right when you talk about, you know, how we feel is determined by our thoughts and that we can think things on purpose, like I'm, you know, and my listeners know this, that, you know, I have therapy and honestly, I just spoke to my friend about it and I was like, isn't it the best thing in the world?
Like, totally. I feel like if I could only give one piece of advice ever, it would be have therapy like it's so good. And, this week when I was talking to her, it was about the fact of how much I am changing my thoughts and how my thoughts are kicking into play quicker. So rather than like, you know, I'm a normal, nothing person.
So, you know, rather than thinking, I'll have this one glass of wine and then that driving into 20 before I even have one. I, my, my brain is going, hang on a minute. Like, did, did you really want that? Or would you really do this? Or like, you know, when you, we all get a lot of shame and that's, it's a horrible thing to deal with.
And so again, like when you do something, instead of me going straight into shame, God, you're ridiculous. Can't believe you did that. I then go, I'm not gonna beat myself up about that. Like, so generally that thing in itself, whether it's related to money or wine or love, whatever it is, is so flippin powerful to be able to go.
I just want to choose to think slightly different and because I think slightly different I'm gonna act different or I will get a different outcome. I think that's, that's crazy powerful. Isn't it?
Jane: It is. It's really powerful. I often say to my clients' sake, your level of awareness happens, um, quicker over time.
So initially if. I've been working with, um, you know, a couple of clients recently around sort of spending kind of problems and issues. And so even when you notice you've spent on something you didn't want to spend on, noticing it after the fact is still something to celebrate, because the more you notice it after the fact, then what happens is your awareness increases.
So that then you notice it in the moment. And then you notice that before it actually happens and that's the whole progression, it's actually having that awareness at different points in your journey, but also then acknowledging that you have the awareness is a really positive and really, um, you know, important thing to celebrate as well.
Teresa: Yeah. Yeah. And you, the awareness is everything, isn't it? Cause I often think like, How did I go through life without not without thinking or knowing these things. And there are so many people out there doing it, but it is huge. So let's, let's go back to the money mindset thing then, because the word money mindset, like didn't exist in my world.
Like, I didn't know what it was. Didn't know how, you know, it worked or whatever it was until I started doing some work on myself until I got my business. And then I realized. What a dreadful money mindset I had and where it had come from and what I'd inherited. But so just sum up like the, the kind of term money mindset and what you mean by that.
Jane: Yeah, sure. So I kind, I like to differentiate it a little bit, so I like to think of money mindset as all the thoughts and beliefs that you have around money. Um, but then I also go a little bit deeper when it comes to your relationship to money because your relationship to money is also those thoughts and feelings that you have around money, but it's also about how you relate to money and your thoughts about yourself as well.
Because I do find that some of the more, you know, we can think, oh, money is the root all evil. For example, that's a, a money mindset that we might have a belief that we have, you know, inherited. It may not actually be a belief that we want or that we own, but it's some that, something that we've taken on board. Whereas then having, you know, shame around the way that you spend your money is something that is goes a little bit beyond mindset and more into what your relationship to money is.
And so they are they're the same, but they're, they're also different. They're connected. Um, the, the mindset piece is. No, I wouldn't say surface level, because I think often there's, they're very, um, deeply ingrained beliefs, but then the relationship to money is something that is a bit more complex and a little bit deeper.
Teresa: Yeah. And, and I think it's funny cause it's only when you start looking at this that you realize how complex it is. And how it fits in with so much other stuff. So I always have this conversation with my husband because I think he. Not that he'd want me to share too much on here, but I think he has some money, thoughts and feelings that he might need to look at.
Like, so, you know, well, yeah, everyone does. Yeah. So you know how, like, I came from a very poor family. We didn't have a lot when I was growing up and therefore, like if we went shopping and I'm gonna use the example of toilet rolls. Okay. If we went shopping, we'd buy four toilet rolls because.
It was more about keeping the cost of that shop down. Right. So we weren't one of those families that would have like a big shop or go and get the stuff for the month cause we couldn't afford it. So it was like living almost day to day buy four toilet rolls. And now obviously my husband and I are, you know, we do okay.
And we could buy a whole big bunch of toilet rolls. Right. So I say to my husband about this and I'm like, you know, so what we should do cause we have a lovely lady that comes and cooks for us. And, but we still need to get the cleaning stuff or we sometimes get the clean stuff. And Paul likes to get it from this certain shop.
Cause it's cheaper cause he's very frugal. And I said to him, that's fine, but why don't go every week to buy the stuff? Why don't we go at the beginning of the month, buy everything we're gonna need for the month? And that cause what I'm trying to do is save his time. And he's like, okay. So then we go to the shop, I go with him and I'm like, so we'll get three of these.
Oh no, we don't, we don't need three. I just get one. I'm like, how, how much do we go through? Oh, well, yeah. Uh, just a lot of money. Isn't it. I was like, but we'd be spending it anyway. Like, it's not like, it's not like we're buying three when we only need one, we will need three. We're just buying it in bulk, saving us the time.
And he really didn't like it. He really couldn't get his head around it. When I said to him, This reminds me of being poor. This reminds me of there's not enough. So we've got to hold back what we spend. Whereas it's not saving you any money by not like it's, it's saving you money by not having to go to the shop every week. But like he just, this in his head just couldn't compute.
Jane: And, and the interesting thing with that is that they are, and this is where, like the neuro kind of biology comes in, where it's, you have really deeply ingrained neuro pathways in your brain. That's telling you, this is how we, this is how we act in this situation.
This is a pattern that plays out. One, you get a trigger to that. And your natural thought pattern is we need to save. We need to not buy. We need to be very careful with our money. And so a lot of that work in retraining your brain is understanding that we are gonna have to move, redirect to a different neural pathway.
We're gonna have to build a new neural pathway. And that's where it is really challenging. It's because you are, you know, creating a new pathway in your brain. And so of course it's like, If we are not aware of it. And this is the thing is that a lot of these patterns are completely subconscious. Yeah. And being able to bring the awareness is only the first step, because again, you might have a conversation with your husband to say, you know, it's safe for us to have more than one.
It's safe for us to spend more than, you know, than what's the bare minimum is, but to be able to retrain that pathway is gonna then take time and re you know, put, create a new neural pathway. So it's, it's, it's, I can be very challenging work in that way. Um, because if there was a switch that we could just go, oh, flick I'll just change into a positive money mindset.
That would be amazing. But it does take bringing that subconscious into our awareness and then actively creating new thoughts and new beliefs that are gonna actually support us.
Teresa: Yeah. That's and that's cause I was about to say, How do you do that? But that's the thought work? Isn't it. That's the being aware of that thing, you know?
And it's only, I guess, cause I've done so much work and that I could look at it and go. I think this is something in your head that says, because practically it makes no sense, like go to the shop three times in a month or go once and just get everything you need. And then you don't have to go again, saving yourself some time.
And he'll say to me, but my time's not as valuable as your time, cause obviously my time is equated to what I can earn an hour. So he will argue that his isn't like that, you know? And I'm like, yeah, but I'm just trying to think of you. I'm just trying to think of like you having to go to the shop all the time.
So that's really, you know, it honestly, it's really, really interesting. And the other thing that I found is like, And again, this is like, I'm really oversharing on this episode, but so much has happened this week, weirdly that I then get to be on an interview with you. So I was talking to, again, my therapist and we were talking about the fact of like, sometimes I can be a little bit showoff-y and I really don't like it.
And I'm like, why am I doing that? Like, what is wrong with me? You know, I don't need to prove to the world that, you know, I do okay. Like it's tends to be when I meet people, hopefully people aren't going, yeah, you are a bit. Um, but like, but listening to this thing and oh, thank God she's realized. Um, but like, you know, and I was talking to her about it and she was like, but you know, when you think about a little Teresa, she had nothing, like you couldn't have imagined in your wildest dreams living the life you live now.
So and, and when she put it like that, I was like, that makes sense. She goes, of course it would, if little Teresa was like, look at this, it's brilliant. And that's what I'm doing as an adult. But obviously I feel like it's coming across, like check me out, look at all this stuff I've got. But obviously so much of that comes from being young and just not even knowing these things come with us.
Jane: Yeah. And I think that's also where you can cut yourself a bit of slack as well. It's like, let's actually bring compassion into this process as well. In understanding that there is, um, you know, an inner child in all of us, and we've had experiences that have, you know, been somewhat traumatic to us and that they have imprinted into our, into our memory, into our brain, into the way that we actually, um, Operate our emotional patterns.
And so then if we can bring that compassion and say, oh, okay, it's. And again, saying whatever it is comforting that in a child to say, what is it that you need to hear right now? You know, to help you understand that you don't need to, you know, act this way. You don't need to have these beliefs. And then, you know, cause I do think that, and I hear this all the time.
Like, and I dunno if it's specific to women, I do. I do think it tends to be that women are very, very, um, self-critical. And so we tend to go to that, oh, well, what's wrong with me? You know, what if, what, why can't I do this? What's going on? Like, you know, instead of saying, oh, there's a reason. And, and I often say to my clients is that there is a positive intention behind everything that we do.
Even though it might not seem like it on the surface. There is a reason why we're acting in this way. Even if it's, you are spending too much or you are not raising your prices or you are self-sabotaging in some other way, there is still a positive intention. If we can understand that and know that that pattern has probably been working for us.
For a really long time, but it's not serving us anymore. Then we can say, okay, well, you know, there's nothing wrong with me. Everything. My brain is working exactly as it should be. It's working to keep me safe. It's working to keep my inner child safe. What can I do to reassure it as well?
Teresa: Yeah. And, and again, that compassion piece is huge.
Like, and, and it was funny cause it wasn't until she reframed it to that, that I was like, oh my God. Yeah. Like when I think of little me and like, you know, we didn't have a lot at all that I couldn't have imagined, you know, driving the car I drive or having the house I have or having someone cook my meals for me.
I mean, that just seems absolutely obscene, but like, you know, so I can get that, that younger me would be like, what the hell? This is amazing. Like.
Jane: We have to tell everyone that's amazing.
Teresa: Everyone look at what we've got like, honestly, and it's funny cause I'm so aware of it. So I don't think. Well, I know how often I do it and I've done it like twice in the past six months, I think, but it just like, but it wasn't until I reframed it and thought, okay, this actually now makes sense.
So let's talk about, um, business side of the money and cause again, right. Like I I'm, I'm constantly kind of weighing it up and down. So. Obviously, uh, I have an online business. Uh, so my money comes from people buying stuff from me and my audience have various different businesses. But like, what's your thoughts in terms of kind of growing your income, like from a, from a practical and a kind of more woo point of view?
Because sometimes it does feel like, like I can look at some people and think, I don't know how an earth I'd ever get to that point. Like. And I know I don't wanna be thinking that, but if I am, then it's probably stopping me getting to that point. But like how, if someone was sat there going, I want to try and scale up or want to increase my income?
What two kind of things, or what on either side of the coin, do I need to be thinking about or doing?
Jane: Yeah. So I think that one thing to think about is when you're scaling, is that what has worked for you before is not going to work to get you to the next level. Okay. So starting to think about things in a different way.
And this is like thinking in, okay. If I want to grow my business, you know, I, I remember, you know, and I speak to a lot of business owners who like to keep things as lean as possible, which is great. Um, I think we need to be efficient about how we spend our money, but we also need to see where the opportunities are.
So to invest into our business and to invest into ourselves, to be able to take the next step up. And when it comes to scaling it's things like, how can I, I'm not, I'm just not going to be able to do everything I used to do. Yeah. How I, how can I outsource this? How can I make this as efficient as possible.
Do I need to spend extra money on, you know, getting a better software system or to outsource my bookkeeping, do I need a better system in place. But then there's also the mindset piece of saying, okay, who can I, sort of look to, to actually think about how they are thinking as well. Because if we are stuck in the same mindset, then we're not gonna be able to take the next step up.
And if we are surround ourselves with other people who are that little bit ahead of ourselves then I think that we can. We're very energetic beings. And so being around people who have that, anything is possible energy and being able to look to them and see how they're thinking and how they're acting and the way that they speak about things can be a really powerful thing to sort of up level your mindset as well.
Teresa: Yeah. And so a couple of things you said there that have worked really well for me is that investing in ourselves and investing in stuff that will help us get to it. So for me, I have paid money that scared me that to put myself up to another level and mix with different people. And it really helped. It really worked.
And not only did I build relationships that with people who and, uh, We, we both know Rachel Rogers as not personally, but you know, Rachel Rogers who does the, We Should Be Millionaires, which I go on about all the time. And one of the things she talks about is your million dollar squad, like, and, and it's right.
Like I have people. And when I did that exercise and I looked at who's in my world, who's who I would put in that. Like, I was surprised at who wasn't in there. I was surprised that none of my family and friends made the cut, like you know, because they're not, they don't have that same mindset. They don't think in the same way.
And I think there is something really natural about that. And also that kind of investing in yourself in terms of like, Learning and building your community and, and developing yourself through various different route. And then you said, and it's just flow out my head. What did you say? I had another point and it's gone, like the people listening to this, like they understand that I have like, it's early morning.
It's very relaxed. It's very relaxed. It's gone out in my head. I can't think what I said. You had talked about the fact of not, uh, you can't do the same things. Oh, that's. When we're talking about scaling that you can't do everything. And again, just to that point, every time I've taken on a new team member, it scared the begeess out of me like, and I thought I can't afford these people, but actually the truth is I can't afford not to have them.
So how do you, like, this is where the practical and the woo kind of step in, because, right. So let's say you're sat there looking at your income and you're thinking. I can't afford, or I don't think I can afford to bring someone on, but then, you know, I say, you know, you need to kind of take a bit of, bit of a leap, a little bit of a leap, and this is why I get so nervous.
Cause it's like, I'm not trying to tell someone to put themselves in debt or financially be in a mess. However, I am also saying that if we wait until we feel we can afford it, we will never feel that way. So how do we balance that?
Jane: Yeah, absolutely. And that's in looking well, there's first of all, I think there's understanding that fear is gonna be part of it. Because when we are doing something different, We're going to be getting outside of our comfort zone. And there is an element of being able to push through that discomfort and understand that we are gonna be doing something that doesn't necessarily feel super comfortable. And, you know, we wouldn't be in business if we were wanted comfort, wanted comfort the whole time.
Um, but I think there's also understanding that we're not just spending the money on something that's not gonna return dividends. So we still wanna make sure that we are investing in the right things. We're not going to be investing into you know, redoing our office. You know, it's or spending on something that isn't gonna get returns, understanding that we are.
If we are able to invest in freeing up our time by hiring somebody else to do something that they can do better and we can use to focus our genius, then that's an investment or investing in systems. That again, it's gonna take the time off so you can spend it, or we can spend it doing what it is that's gonna bring money through the door. It's gonna bring more clients into our, our, um, our business. So. It's in being strategic about how we spend the money, not, you know, doing it without having any thought for what it's gonna do for our business, but also not getting so scared that we just don't do anything either.
Because if we don't take those leaps, we don't take those risks. And we don't do something different, then we are just gonna get stuck doing the same thing. And I think that time is something that's so important as entrepreneurs, because we are the ones that come up with the ideas and we are the ones that do the delivery.
We are the ones who are the, um, the vision behind the business. And if we don't have time to focus on those things, then it's, nothing's gonna change. We're not gonna be able to, you know, push our business forward.
Teresa: Yeah. Yeah. And it was funny. I was talking to someone a while back about debt in business and it's like, isn't it funny as a small business owner, you feel like you should not have that.
And I'm like, but do you think the big businesses out there don't have any debt? Like of course they have debt. Of course they have stuff, but for some reason we feel, and I, and I did, like, I started this business and I had no savings. I, I did it all the wrong way. And I've managed to get through without ever really having to borrow any money.
I mean, there's been times where I've been like, oh God, this feels uncomfortable, but you know, it it's, it's been okay. But that, that isn't necessarily a problem. Is it like, you know, having debt in itself, isn't. No, don't you ever and you can't. Do you think?
Jane: Yeah, so it's, and again, there's the differentiation because we can't just throw all debt into the one bucket.
And if we look at debt from even on a personal side, the idea of having good debt and bad debt, and the idea is. Is that if you are taking on debt to invest in an income generating or growth generating opportunity, that is good debt, bad debt is where it's, what you're buying is gonna depreciate in value or that you are buying to consume.
So it's the same thing in business sense that if you are borrowing to, you know, put into this new project that you know is going to pay dividend. By bringing more revenue into your business, then that's technically good debt. You're not buying a new car for your business, if you don't technically need it.
Unless it's required. You know, there's always that using your judgment as to whether or not, and, you know, we, we, we all know, realistically, if we are honest with ourselves, what is truly an investment income in versus, oh, when nice to have, you know.
Teresa: Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Jane: I tried to convince myself the other day that I was investing, buying a, um, in, into buying a remarkable, I don't know if you've seen those and, and I convinced myself that I was investing in it, cause it's my business.
But I know it's, it's not really an investment. It's something that I wanted and that I will use in my business. But if I'm honest with myself, I would never go into debt for that.
Teresa: And actually that's such a good point to think about that because I have done this a million times, like the tech stuff that I've got like, and granted some of it was as I've scaled.
Obviously I, I have a fairly good setup here, but I wasn't always like this. It's only since having to do more of this, but like, I think that's such a good way of going, like, is this thing gonna actually bring me more money in? And that really, that fits really nicely with them. And I always talk about this book and I've never even read it, so I probably should read it.
Um, but it's the book that the, uh, British rowing team wrote it called. Um, Does It Make The Boat Go Faster? And basically they had a new coach come in. I think like, again, I should know this story properly. They had a coach come in and basically they, the coach was saying to them, Everything you do in every part of your life, you have to ask yourself, does this make the boat go faster?
And. And that I use that a lot within my practical time point of view. So as I get, you know, falling into Instagram, I'm like, is this making the boat go faster? No, it's not. Get out of Instagram. Like, yeah. So it's the same thing with the money. Is this going to bring something in or head to that goal? If it's not, I don't need it.
So yeah. I wanna pick your brain a little bit because. This is, this is Teresa's podcast is for like her to pick people's brains which is lovely in my audience. And I pray that me finding things out helps my audience find things out. But so I think I've done a lot of work on my money mindset. I feel very, uh, I was gonna say good, but I feel positive about the improvements I've made.
Certainly could make some more. That's fine. However, she sits here starts to hang her head in shame. I really struggle with the money side of my business. Okay. Like I disown it basically, like I have never really done my own books. I haven't account that does my stuff. I dunno what he does, how he does it.
Like it's like, I've gone. Oh yeah, no, I'll just put that over there. That's not for me to know about. and I feel like from a woo woo point of view, that that energetically is stopping me from growing, because I know I'll have to look at that. And I should, I should be all over it. Like, you should be able to say to me, like, what did you make this month?
And I should know, and I have no idea, like, because money comes in and money goes out and it all seems to be okay, like, so like how do I, it, it scares the living thing outta me. Like yeah, just looking at it and, and it just makes my head hurt before I even think about it. Like. How do I get good at going? And do you think it's stopping me from going further?
Jane: Um, I think it's a good idea to have a bit of an idea about certain things, but you don't necessarily have to be the one to crunch all the numbers. So first of all, one thing that I would ask is what actually scares you about it.
Teresa: Uh, what scares me about doing that, that it's confusing that I won't get it, that, that.
I'll realize that I'm actually not that successful . And even though I bring the money in, I spend the money, like, I think it's funny cause it always sorts itself out always, but I don't think even though I plan for the year ahead and I plan what we're gonna launch and what we're doing with the team. If I sat here now and said, what's my recurring income and what does that look like? That would not look good. Like that would not look anywhere near enough to how we live. But for some reason, it always works out like, and, and it's almost like looking at that would scare me.
Jane: Right. So I think some of that is getting over that fear and also reframing fear. So reframing it in that this isn't necessarily gonna be scary, but having clarity could help you then make better decision.
So switching it around to be more of an empowering thing. And I think I, I deal with women all the time, who for the longest time have had their heads sort of stuck in the sand with their finances, whether that's business or personal and. Happens. If when we do it together, we go through everything. By the end of it, honestly, 99% of the time they go, oh wow.
I actually feel better now because they understand how they've been spending. They understand what's coming in the door. They understand where things are, which then empowers them to make better decisions. Mm. Money doesn't have to be scary. It can actually be a really exciting thing to understand and knowing just some of those key numbers is gonna then change things.
And, and that's where I think working with somebody who, you know, if you have a good accountant where you can sit down every month and say tell me what the key figures are. Tell me what I need to know. Tell me it does. You don't have to tell me all the nitty gritty parts, but let's look at what my expense ratio is.
Let's look at what my revenue number is. What, how does that compare to what my target was and being able to have that kind of conversation, even on sort of that top level, then you, then you can sort of be empowered to then make decisions in your business. Mm. Yeah. And it doesn't have to be scary.
Teresa: And I think that's it, isn't it like it's, it's knowing that thing.
And I, I did try, I did do some exercise. Because I know this is a problem. Um, but like I literally just leave everything to last minute and think, you know, I'll, I'll love a quick look. Oh yeah, that seems okay. Fine. We'll move on. Um, but I feel like, and again, I was listening to Rachel Rogers this morning, actually I was getting ready on one of her podcasts and she talks about the fact of like, she loves the numbers.
And like you said, as the CEO in my business, Same way as I delegate to my team the same way as I have to manage it from a kind of slightly overarching point of view, I need to know the numbers on that. And I need to for, I guess, for, for a couple of reasons, like one understanding what I'm spending and where and how, but also, like, I didn't know that I've made six figures in my business.
Like. My accountant, I said something and he was like, yeah, you did last year. And I was like, Did I? That's brilliant. That's ACE. He's like, literally that's how little I pay attention to it. Like, you know, as long as the money's in the bank to pay the bills, brilliant banks. Um, but is there any books. There's a book that was recommended to me, which I've not read called profit first. Is it? Um, any books that you would recommend from a more practical point of view that actually might engage me to try and learn some nice things about how I manage this.
Jane: Yeah. Uh, profit first is, is a, a good one, I guess. It's, that's, it's more about sort of how you manage your cash flow within your business.
Um, it's I think some of the mindset stuff is a bit more powerful because I, those kind of things that you can hand over a lot of responsibility to your accountant or, or you don't need. Yeah, no, but it is important to be able to have a good enough relationship with that person that you can be able to, first of all, sort of look at things proactively, cause I think one thing with, um, with old school accountants will be, oh, we are just counting the numbers after they happen. Whereas a good accountant will be able to say, okay, what are we aiming for? What, what is your plan for investing in your business? You know, those kind of things. Being able to engage your accountants so that you can, can do so you can make those decisions is, is really powerful.
Um, I'm not sure about what other rec books I'd recommend from a practical point of view. Um, but again, some of the mindset stuff there's. There's a whole, a whole lot of, of, um, of really great practical um, money, mindset books, like, um, the, you are a, you are a badass. Yes. I think say an American. That's good with the American accent.
You are a badass at making money by Jen Sincere. Yeah. Is a good one. Um, The one of the ones that I read many, many years ago, which is, oh, and then it's just gone off the top of my head. Oh, about Overcoming Underearning which is, I think Barbara Stenny is her name. And that was a, really, a really big one for me when I first read it a few years ago, because it's really.
That whole idea of taking, you know, taking your head out of the sand and being able to not be afraid of looking at numbers. And again, that's where, it's the stories we're telling ourselves. So if you are to, you know, in, in your situation, Teresa is to say, what am I scared of here? What is, you know, you know, little kid, Teresa.
Yeah. What is she? Or is she scared of looking silly by asking the wrong questions? Is she scared of seeing a number that she doesn't want? Is she scared of, um, being told that she's not allowed to do X, Y, Z, and it's all gonna be completely personal to you and that's where it's getting, understanding what it is she scared of and how you can reframe the process to be able to make her feel safe at the same time.
Teresa: Yeah, that's so good. And you are, you know, all of the above basically are what you said. yep, yep, yep. Um, yeah, but yeah, it's interesting because actually it is the mind that's stopping me from stepping into doing this and owning it and it's not the practical side. You know, if I'm being kind to myself, I'm smart and resourceful and I can do this.
Like I can learn things. It's more the fact of, you know, what does that, it's almost like, it's almost like that imposter syndrome of, you know, obviously I manage, we do fine, but it's almost like I'm gonna look at it and go, oh no, you weren't making any money. Like, even though I know money's coming in the bank, like, it's almost like it's gonna go.
Yeah, no, no. You're really unsuccessful actually that, yeah, you haven't got your money. Like it is it, money is a hard thing, isn't it? It is just touch on me cause I'm really conscious of our time and you've been so generous with it. And, but just touch on for me, like, just touch on. You're gonna go, we could talk an hour for this, I'm sure. Like the, the women and why the women. Women find it so much harder to do this stuff and why our mindset needs probably a lot more work maybe than the men's.
Jane: Yeah. I think men have their own money mindset issues, but there is a lot that's gendered because of the messaging that we as women get from society. A lot of our messaging is of about say, for example, where our value comes from. So in saying our value is in, you know, how, how accommodating we can be to other people in how attractive we are in how small we can make ourselves. And when we look at something like business, where, you know, you have to speak up and stand out and be loud in some, some situations and to really know your worth and stand, you know, stand in your place and have an opinion and all these type of things.
There's a lot of stuff that comes up because it challenges what we've been told by society, our whole lives, essentially, and to say, well, Oh, well, um, I can't, you know, whether if you, I can't ask for more money because that's impolite and I can't do this and I can't do that. And also cultural messaging, like, so for example, when we've first started speaking, you said you felt bad about saying that you ha were wealthy or that you had money.
And so it's interesting there is that where you went to is, oh, I didn't wanna be like that, but then understanding, well, why don't we wanna be like that? Do men, do men wanna downplay how much money they make?
Jane: No exactly because like we are told, oh, that's not polite. And it's, that's not a nice thing to talk about and we don't wanna make other people feel uncomfortable cause that's, again, something that women are taught.
Teresa: And it's garish and vulgar to talk about money and be proud of what you earn.
Jane: Exactly. And then layer on top of that, you know, the both British and Australian cultural thing of downplaying things and not being too out there and all the rest of it. Yeah. Um, there's various different cultural things.
It's not necessarily, it's not necessarily just gendered. Um, there's lots of different areas that it sort of, we get our messaging from, but it's so powerful because we've been soaking it up since we were children about who we should be and what we should do and how we should behave. Um, and you know, being in a very, when we think about capitalism, which is a very masculine energy, a very masculine system, how do we then fit in there as women? How do we operate from a position of maintaining our, you know, feminine energy, but also then being able to get ahead in that this world as well. It's complex.
Teresa: It is. And as I am discovering, everything is so intertwined with everything else. And, and like you said, I think it's just about the awareness of it and, and understanding that, you know, I I've learned very recently that, you know, women weren't allowed their own bank accounts or men had to counter sign for stuff like.
Jane: It's like it's with its ridiculously recent history. No, it's crazy.
Teresa: I was absolutely blown away by that. I, yeah. And so when I was listening to something, they were like, you know, men have had like a 2000 year head start on us, like, you know, in terms of running businesses and making money and all this sort of thing. And, and we haven't. So, you know, again, it's that being mindful of it being, uh, you know, kind to ourselves about it, but then going, we can do this and still pushing forward isn't it?
Jane: Yeah. And there's no shame around it as well. There's no shame in, you know, as you said before, we've been locked, sort of locked out as women from this kind of area of, of life for gen, like for, for centuries, you know? And so it's, there's no shame in not knowing. What you don't know. And there's lots of other areas.
Like if I, if I was to go to the doctor and he, he, or she tells me that a certain thing, I don't think, oh, I should have known that. Why didn't I know that I'm such an idiot for not knowing that it's like, if I didn't, if I didn't go to university to learn it, then I wouldn't know it. You know, it's no shame.
Teresa: And, and I think, you know, and again, I'm and I'm like carrying on, um, That's the other thing like the education delivered to us in general is bad. Like who said that A you should just know how to manage this stuff and how it works and that sort of thing. But also as business owners, I got a salary for my entire life.
Like until I started my business. Like you said, there's, I feel embarrassed and, and a bit shameful that like I'm a business owner and I don't understand this and I'm not working it well, and I'm not where I should be, but who said, I should have been like, who's given me that education. No one. So we do need to go and educate ourselves with this stuff. Don't we?
Jane: Yeah, absolutely. And, and know that if we don't know it, like everything else that we have learnt in business, it, we go and find it out. Yeah. And it's okay. The shame is, and, and I'm, I don't know if you're aware would be I'm unsure of Brene Brown's work. Yes. But she talks about how, when we keep shame in the dark or when we keep our secrets in the dark, that's where the, the shame kind of thrives.
And if we bring it into the light, then the shame actually. It disappears. We, we don't need to be shameful of, so of ashamed of so many of, of, of our, you know, insecurities and our concerns and, you know.
Teresa: Yeah, you're right. And I think we're only doing an injustice to people who are listening to this and follow me and, you know, because and I know there are people that I follow that look like they have got it. So, so enough. And I know they haven't. And it's like, what, a shame that you can't share that actually at your stage or where you are at, these are some of the challenges. These are some of the things that come up because that would really reassure everyone else.
Cause everyone else has just sat there thinking. I'm there's obviously something wrong with me because they all seem to be doing it brilliantly and I can't get it together. Like, so I just think the more we can go, actually, no, it's not like that. The more it's gonna help everyone, isn't it?
Jane: Yeah. And everyone has their own, you know, money mindset blocks. And what happens is you get to the next level and another block comes up and you go to the next level, the next level, there will always be another block. It's the same with all personal development work. There's always more to do. We don't ever get there.
Teresa: Yeah. Yeah. Love it. Jane. This has been so helpful. Uh, I really appreciate, uh, you coming on and talking to me and giving me some advice, I'm gonna go and kick myself up backside and get my head around this stuff. Thank you, Jane so much.
Jane: Thank you for having me.
Teresa: No worries. No, obviously we'll link to you and everything in the show notes, but where do you hang out most? That you'd like people to come and say “Hi?”
Jane: I'm on Instagram a little bit too much. um, I'm mostly on Instagram, um, @janekwalters. Um, you can come and find me there. I'm I am on sort of LinkedIn and Facebook and that kind of thing as well, but, um, yeah, you can, you can mostly find me on Instagram. Send me a DM. I'd love it.
Teresa: Awesome stuff. Lovely. Thank you, Jane so very much.
Jane: Thank you.
Teresa: There we go. That was the amazing Jane. Please do go check her out and show her what an amazing community you are, which I know you all are. So have a wonderful week. I am back next week with a solo episode until then have a wonderful and abundant week.