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How to protect your intellectual property with Nakia Gray

Today’s episode of the podcast is an interview with Nakia Gray where we chat about all things legal.

Nakia is an Intellectual Property Attorney and Business Strategist who helps entrepreneurs build profitable and protected brands.

Armed with her creative legal mind, savvy marketing skills, and extensive education with over 20 years’ experience, she operates Gray Legal PC, a modern and innovative law firm uniquely designed for digital entrepreneurship.

This episode is filled with so much great information and some really important things to think about in terms of how we run our businesses.

 

KEY TAKEAWAYS COVERED IN THE PODCAST:

  • Issues to be aware of when using legal templates
  • Steps you can take to protect your intellectual property
  • What you should include in your terms and conditions to avoid public negative feedback
  • Things to consider when collaborating on events or webinars

 

THE ONE THING YOU NEED TO REMEMBER ABOVE ALL ELSE:

 You need to be on top of the legal side of your business from the very start!

 

HIGHLIGHTS YOU SIMPLY CAN’T MISS:

  • Why you should never offer lifetime access
  • What you need to consider when offering a money back guarantee
  • The language you use when you offer a Facebook community as part of your service

 

RESOURCES MENTIONED:

Nakia Gray Instagram

 

TRANSCRIPT

Hello and welcome to this week's episode of the podcast. Do you know what I get on every week? And I record these and I just say the numbers. But 250 episodes. Wow. That is loads. That is so many, that is so much content. It's crazy. It blows me away how these numbers just creep up and if I was smart I would work out how many years that has been but I'm not sure I want to because that's a lot a lot a lot. Anyway

This week I have an interview for you which is really really cool. So I have the lovely Nakia Gray on and we're talking all things legal. Now I know if you're anything like me that stuff scares me Like I'm not even kidding you. I do not find that stuff like enjoyable or easy or fun. The same with the finance stuff, these two areas for me are like oh I really have to focus and really have to remind myself to do these things.

But The way she talks about it and some of the stuff she says is so so helpful. And it's really really important as small business owners that we have some kind of cover in some way or other. And one thing that was great to talk about is the fact of like the template thing. And I know you know I've heard people say you know you're not allowed to use or not allowed or you shouldn't use templates. You shouldn't just Google a privacy policy and use that. But you know what not everyone can afford to bring a lawyer in.

So I talked to her about it and I said “You know, is that Okay? What do you think?” So yeah that's really helpful We talked around that. We talked about things around intellectual property. Also we talked about where you should never say you've got lifetime value of something which is really interesting cause that's definitely a mistake I've made in the past, years ago but I've definitely said you've got lifetime access to something and she talked about why you shouldn't say that. Um because basically it's not true is it because whose lifetime are you talking about yours or mine or what is a lifetime? Does that mean that I need you to still be serving me. I saw someone do lifetime access for a membership the other day which I think is fascinating because courses I can understand why people would say that like even ones. So I had a course of Jasmine Star, That was a really old course. And she actually said I'm checking this course down but you've got so long to download all the stuff. So technically yeah I have had access to that course for you know as long as I need it for a lifetime if you like. So courses I get but memberships I don't like what if that person decided they don't wanna do that membership anymore. What if I don't know just That just didn't sit right with me.

Anyway I didn't mean to go on a little round about that. But yeah we talk about that and we talk about lots of other good things. So let me tell you who Nakia is. So Nakia is an intellectual Oh God I knew this was gonna happen I hate reading out and I can't speak when I read. She's an intellectual property attorney and business strategists who helps entrepreneurs build profitable and protected brands. Armed with her creative legal mind savvy marketing skills and extensive education with the 20 years’ experience fyi she does not look old enough. She operates great legal PC and modern and in law firm uniquely designed for digital entrepreneurship which I think is really interesting. Because I know there's professionals that I deal with who don't understand the digital online world. So I think the fact that she does really really helps. Uh she has clients but she also has a membership called lockedandlawyered.co and premier online destination for entrepreneurs to make sure their business is legal legit and overflowing with money. That would all have a bit of that.

So okay this is Nakia, she's wonderful I think you're really gonna like her so over to her. Okay It's my pleasure today to welcome to the podcast Nakia Gray. Nakia how are you doing?

Nakia: I am doing lovely. Thank you.

Teresa: Good. Good. Really good. I'm really excited to have you on. I did a request a while ago in a group we are in for people who talk about different subjects that are not subjects I ever talk about because they are definitely not my zone a genius. So I am really really glad to have you on. So, we always get started the same way by you telling my audience what you do and how you got to do what you're doing.

Nakia: Sure. So I am a business and intellectual property strategist and I help entrepreneurs with protecting their brand and also creating protecting and monetizing their intellectual property. So that is my zone of genius. And I have been doing this and I actually am going into my seventh year of in this practice. I've been practicing law for 16 years. I was a litigator before this, Yeah But I kind of moved into I took Marie Forleo's B-School in 2014 and that was like okay I wanna be in the online space. Um and definitely kind of made a shift at that time for personal reasons and some professional reasons. And so I've been at this for a while but just you know in in a different lawyering in a different way but still being a lawyer.

Teresa: Yeah Yeah. So explain to me what you did before this. You did say but I wasn't sure I know what that means.

Nakia: So I was I used to go to court. I was a divorce lawyer.

Teresa: Okay. Oh God I can only imagine. As a divorced woman with a husband who was is also divorced. One was easy, mine was very easy like “Just give me the paper, I'll sign. See you later. Bye.” Uh his Ugh Like yeah I can only imagine that job must have like.

Nakia: Oh I did, I had a heavy caseload. So I was doing about 50 contested divorce cases a year with custody issues, property businesses like knocked down, drag out fights. And so it just got to be, I mean you've been through it and I and I understand with yours being easy but for some people it's the worst. I was meeting people at the worst time in their lives. And they were going through so much. They were I was really the only person that they felt comfortable sharing all the stuff that was going on. So people were dumping a lot of their trauma on me. And that just after a while it just literally sucked the life out of me seriously. Like it was just it was just too much It was too much.

Teresa: I can only imagine like the negativity, the heartache the because it's it there's so much to it. You know there's and you see the worst of people I'm sure like where they're behaving really badly especially when there's children involved. I can only imagine that although it must have been very rewarding in lots of senses to come home every day with all that like weight on your shoulders must have been so much.

Nakia: Yeah it was. And it was also just it was it began to be really difficult for me to leave it at work. You know what I mean? Like my husband's phone rings late at night and it's like “Who's that? What's going on? What are you hiding?” You know what I mean It's just like yeah you're listening to people and they've you know it just it was just so much. And then even my kids at the time my youngest was heading into middle school and he said you know he hated that I did this. He and he said mom you know I hate divorce because his friend you know I was looking at it from the adults right. Like all the people that I was representing.

But in his little world he was seeing the effects of it on the kids and how bad kids felt and how they were now not able to come to his birthday party because it was on dad's weekend or you know what I mean. So as a as a middle schooler he had this this conception that you know this perception that divorce is just ugly. It's bad. It rips families apart. It makes my friends sad so why do you do this mom? And so that really was eye opening for me. Like my goodness I'm tearing families apart every day that can't be God's purpose for my life.

Teresa: No. No. So had you had any experience with the online world? Had you seen it? Had you what kind of then made you even discover you know B school and that sort of stuff?

Nakia: Yes. So I went back so my undergraduate degree is in marketing and even law was a second career for me. I was in the fashion industry first right outta law school. For an undergraduate degree in marketing went.

Teresa: Can I just say Nakia you do not look old enough to have had all these careers and the children and everything else. Like you were sat there looking very young.

Nakia: You are my new best friend. Yeah. So my two kids, I have two seniors this year, my youngest is graduating from high school and my oldest is graduating from college this year.

Teresa: Get out of here. They are not. Oh I need like some serious work done. Come on people disheveled And now I feel really annoyed that like I didn't come on my A game honestly.

Nakia: So despite how young and vibrant look I am old and I went to college like before the internet like I went to when I went to college there was no internet. Like it was it So all of that marketing experience started to feel a little outdated. And so I went back to school in 2011 I went to American University. They had a master a weekend master's program on branding and strategic communication and online presence and blogging. And so that was where I kind I went and that was the first time in my life that I went to school for me. Like I really wanna be better Like I was starting to feel outdated and I learned about people that had these online businesses and I'm like “These people are living a great life. Like what! Where I'm in?”

Teresa: This is amazing! Yeah.

Nakia: And I stumbled on Marie I stumbled on Marie's B school. She does like a free video series. And I enrolled in that and I was like oh my God I'm gonna do this. And so I did it and I will tell you uh if full transparency at the time when I enrolled in B school my plan was just to start an online business I didn't know what it was gonna be I was just like whatever they're doing I need to figure it out. And it was in B school like being in the Facebook group and seeing all these people like someone stole my eBook I have a client that's not paying me.

I have these they were having all of these issues and I had my Oprah aha moment like I know what my online business is gonna be I need to be a lawyer for these people who need a lawyer and have no clue what they're doing about the legal issues surround around their content and their trademarks. So that's how I just so all of my first client like I built this to practice in Marie Forleo's B-School and then I enrolled in other online courses and it just took off from there.

Teresa: So so good. So how does your day look now. Like I can imagine how your day looked before. What kind of day do you have now?

Nakia: So now I've grown tremend I mean just astronomical growth since I first started. Also I forgot this little part when I first started my husband and I had agreed that I was gonna come home leave the law firm to homeschool. So I was a homeschool mom so I was part-time. So the online space really worked well for that. So I only worked um two season Thursdays So when my daughter graduated and went to college in in 2017 that's when I became I really ramped up and was like full time. And so now I have I mean I have an entirely virtual staff I have people all over the world. Attorneys, support staff, marketing automation you know I have all of these things. Yeah And so my day looks a lot better than it did back then.

And so I really, you know I spend Tuesdays and Thursdays doing new client consults and Wednesdays are dedicated to current clients. I run a membership now that is really beneficial for people because for a lot of business owners, a lot of my clientele I should say they don't necessarily need like a full time expensive lawyer all the time.

Teresa: Yeah totally get that.

Nakia: They just need to like reach out and touch me if they need to. And so that really so I am busy creating content for them. I have tons of contract templates and things that I'm constantly adding to their that they can use Like we just recently had someone who had a client I'm sure you could may have ever may have had to deal with this that isn't paying. And so it's like well how do we address this? What do we have to say? And so she was able to say to me tell me what to say, and so I wrote that out for her Like this is how we demand payment and you wanna I really wanna empower my clients to enforce these contracts that you have like you've invested in having this solid client contract but you really have to say well they have to do what you say we're going to do here.

And if you don't I'm gonna point you to the paragraph that says um may have to terminate our relationship. And that's not always an easy conversation for people to have. And so I spend my days you know responding to those kinds of things or someone says oh I uh found this really cool coworking space and they've given me a contract. What does it say? Can I sign this? Yeah You know And so they can just send that to me. I love that because every day brings something new. It brings something different. It's fresh which is exciting for me. So that's kind of you know for the most part what I spend on my day doing and then of course team meetings. I have my own staff that I have to meet with and strategize with and plan launches and all of those things.

Teresa: So good I love all that. And actually I love the idea of a membership. It's funny when cause obviously I have a membership. I have helped people launch memberships. I have a lot to do with the membership space. And so and I have met the most unique memberships that you think what is that really a thing? But actually for you because I have had lots of thoughts about I need to tighten up on this side of it but there's two things that I don't like dealing with and legal and finance are the two like they're not for me but they're really important. So like the thought of having cause the other thing is that what scares me is. And this was actually one of my questions was you know what's the difference between picking a template up and is that okay?

Because there are people out there who can't afford that at this point you know they're just getting going, they've not really got any clients or not got many clients. So is having a template better than having nothing but then is having you know when do you decide that you have to flip to paying someone to do it personally for you?

Nakia: I am so glad that you that you brought that up because definitely a template is better than nothing. However a template that's not done properly or that you aren't executing correctly can be very detrimental. And so I recommend that even with the template. So that's why in my membership although people have access to all of my you know hundreds of templates we also include document review. So you could up to 10 pages a month, after you after you customize your template send it to us to say did I do this right? Is this you know?

And so I'll tell you a really crazy story. One of my clients was doing a video shoot a brand shoot and the videographer had sent her a contract and my client who's in the membership sent it to say “Hey is this okay? Can I sign it?” And there was a clause in there that said that After the video was completed that the videographer would own the copyright in all rights to the work. Certainly that's not what the videographer meant. They didn't do that. They didn't intentionally say that. And so when I gave my client the language and I said copy this paste this set it to him. And they were like “Oh my God I just got that off Google I had no idea That's what it said.” True story. Totally Not every so they just you know so not everyone is like you know and that was great that my client had me to not to talk her off the ledge and say don't get upset and just say “How dare you think I'm gonna pay you $3,000 for a video and you're gonna own it?” You know what I mean? It's like the videographer clearly just got the got a template. And had no And maybe in for some videographers like some famous person you know if Beyonce is your videographer maybe she does wanna own it. But you know for most people they don't wanna own it. They just wanna be paid for it and they'll give it to you.

And so that's a great example of why not having a template and then sending it to people to say. Cause the way that I draft a contract for the videographer versus the recipient of those services may be a little different, right? There are things that are different to each of you.

Teresa: Yeah absolutely. And you're right I think so many people do just go “Oh yeah that'll do.” And then they're not reading it. And then it's only when they get someone astute that is then going “Hang on a minute What does this mean?” Right? But I think like in your experience what are the things kind of really getting started that people need to think about? Because I know obviously I train and I have a membership full of you know business owners and people who are just getting started out in entrepreneurs. And I know that is not the top of their list when they first get started.

Nakia: Absolutely.

Teresa: And how do we explain or give us understanding of why it should be and what we need to look at?

Nakia: You know I have started uh really incorporating in my messaging What is your end goal? Like what is it that you really want? And so for most people when you ask them they want a six figure business, they want a seven figure business. And so when you when that's your response when I ask you then my question to you is Do you believe that a seven figure business owner isn't serious about the legal pieces of her business? And we would all say absolutely not. A seven figure business owner is very astute in knowing what her legal implications are. And so become her now. Become her now. You don't wait you are going to really cripple your progress by not doing it.

And so it's so much easier I can tell I could do a whole podcast episode on the absolute awful horror stories of people that just don't know or didn't realize. And so and especially for those of us that are creative and we're creating content to not understand how to own your content and to make sure that you own it. That's the crux of your business. It's almost like operating a brick and mortar store and leaving every night and not having an alarm system or locking it up. Of course you wouldn't, you wouldn't do that. So your online business, it is the assets that really make it what it is are your creations. It's your blog post. It's your videos. It's your podcast. It's your workbooks. It's your membership. All of those things need to be protected and it's and your reputation and your reputation.

Teresa: And it's really interesting in the fact of like one of the things that people would say and I guess I have said is like you know there's no original content. Like things are very similar aren't they? So if someone is teaching how to do Facebook ads there's only gonna be so much of a way to do Facebook ads. So I guess that's why people might think oh I don't need to do that but just explain and if you can use that example that'd be brilliant. Like why if let's say you're doing a Facebook ads course why you should go to the effort of doing that and how does it look like protecting it as in is it like if anybody takes any element of that if they use your terminology. If you know cause I've had it many times where I've said something on stage at an event and then the people who run the event suddenly go “We now say this.” And I'm like yeah no you didn't I said it but you know whatever. So yeah What's your thoughts around that?

Nakia: Yeah And yeah that's a great question because you know not everything is protectable or yours, right? But certainly the name of your course. Right? So and that's your brand. So when we say protecting your brand that's what we're saying, You've come up with this awesome Facebook ads course And it's you know Facebook ads from A to Z I don't know I'm just making that up. Well I wanna make sure that every time any person sees Facebook ads from A to Z that it is mine. That they know that they are purchasing Nakia's Facebook ads course And my that includes my signature five step framework that I'm gonna take you to millions with your Facebook ads or whatever my brand promise is.

And so where that can be very confusing is if and if you don't trademark it and actually the first step to trademarking is to even a clearance to make sure Facebook ads from A to Z isn't already in use that someone else has, right? That I'm not infringing on someone else's rights. So when we say protect your brand that's what we're talking about. Now within your Facebook ads course you've got some videos. You've got some workbooks. You've got tutorials. You might have some graphics. And so what we don't want is someone is Jane to sign up to take your course. Download everything and then put it on for sale on her website. That's just that's not right. And while we can't, there are bad people that are going to do that. We wanna make it more difficult for them to do that. We want to be able to go to teachable and say my copyrighted content is on someone else's page, take it down.

That's and you don't have the power to do that when you don't have proof that you were the original owner because then Jane says “Well it's is mine I created it.” You know .And so that's what we mean when we say protecting. Another piece that I am really big about and this has come up a lot like you know this cancel culture is just really bad. And so someone takes your course they have a bad experience. They don't get the promise that they think that they you made to them. You know we wanna have you should have in your terms and conditions every person that has a membership, a course or anything there needs to be terms and conditions That's the contract between you and your student or your member that says here's what you're responsible for. Here's what I'm responsible for. Here's what you can do. Here's what you can't do. And one of the things you can't do is go blasting me on social media saying that I'm horrible and I didn't do what I said that I was going to do.

Because my reputation, my social proof is my business's currency. My ability to operate comes from the success that I give to people. And so it's come up a lot lately where people just run to Facebook or run online to say “Don't trust her. She's a curt.” You know what I mean It's like, no you can't do that You cannot do that.

Teresa: Yeah. And that's all I have I've seen that happen and I've seen it happen and then get taken down And obviously they had a.

Nakia: They called me. A cease and desist letter. Where they go in my membership And they go in and they download the cease and desist letter and they fire it off. That's exactly what happens. Yeah

Teresa: Yeah and but my only concern with that is what if they are terrible?

Nakia: If they are terrible. So okay, if you agreed to the terms and conditions that say you can't badmouth them if you feel that it's important for you your voice to be heard if you have a bad experience don't take their course. Don't take their course. Say okay well.

Teresa: What if you didn't know and you took the course. It's a real tough one though Isn't it Cause like yeah You know things like if you're gonna get someone to do some work on your house you look at reviews or you look at like you know if I'm gonna buy something I'll check the reviews and stuff. And obviously who are always gonna get people who are just idiots who like Wanna say something mean for the sake saying something mean. But it is interesting isn't it Because I think sometimes and some of these courses are a lot of money like a huge amount of money. And it's just interesting that you know like you said none of us read the terms and conditions We just go Yeah Okay Cool.

Nakia: Yeah. Well and here's the here's the other part of it. So the terms and conditions don't just say you can't badmouth me. It says you can't badmouth me without us trying to work it out. As a business owner there's no amount of money even for my highest ticket program that I'm not willing to just give you your money back to go away. I don't want you know what I mean Mm-hmm but I give me that opportunity before you say I'm terrible because just because it didn't work for you it doesn't mean it doesn't work. And so that's the part that's in the terms and condition is that say come you know we will make a good based effort to make any come to a resolution.

And I've had that a lot of especially in the coaching space you know there is a contract template that I have is it's probably my top seller which is a contract termination agreement. And that's where people you know people sign up for these six months or these 12 month masterminds. And it's a lot of money And by like month three And there's there were no refund policy, you know everyone has no refund no refund. Well is that really what we want? No if you're not engaged if you're not really getting what you want let's agree to go our own separate ways. But I always tell my clients you never do that without a contract And part of that contract is We're gonna keep this confidential Okay? I'm gonna give you back your money cause I don't want you saying all you gotta do is complain and so I'll give you your money back. You know what I mean?

And so we wanna keep this confidential I will give you your money back. We will agree that I don't owe you anything further. You don't owe me anything further. Let's keep it professional. I started doing those a lot during the pandemic cause a lot of people that were in the wedding industry, photography, they had to even though their contract said no cancellations. Well yeah I mean If there's we're in a shutdown you've gotta be able to do that.

Teresa: Yeah there is no choice.

Nakia: I want it to have this document that will allow us to get out of it and make sure that you're not gonna go blab in your mouth telling everybody that I'm a softie and a pushover And I give everybody their money back even though I said no refund. You know what I mean? And so it's all about your reputation and your brand and what you really want to put out there. But for most of us that are doing you know heart centered work, we don't want people in our programs that don't wanna be there.

Teresa: No of course we don't. And I think you mentioned something really interesting about the coaching. And I've got another example I'd like to show with you but obviously when I coach cause I coach people I have a high ticket, high touch item where you know you work one on one with me. But it requires you to do the work. So you won't achieve anything if you don't do the work you know. If you're not putting the effort in it's not gonna happen. So someone could come through and go well it didn't work. And it's like yeah it didn't work cause you didn't work. Like that's the thing. So it's not always as like a straight cut anyway. And in that case I wouldn't refund and I don't Refund And I've never had to on that program which is great. Because I meet them and I check and I'm really honest with them about you've gotta put the work in I'm only gonna advise you this is how it's gonna work. But like I said they've you know they have to put the work If they don't then there's not much I can do about that really.

I had another one the other day which is really interesting So you know how especially on digital products guarantees are a thing. Okay. Now I don't have a guarantee because I can't convincingly work one out yet I'm still thinking I'm still working on it but I don't have a guarantee as in a money back guarantee for anything. Now I've read others And one that always brings to mind is Amy Porterfield She has a guarantee and the money back guarantee And basically it says if you can prove to me you've done all the work within a set amount of period which to be fair you're never gonna get all the work I mean that was set amount period. But it gives you that kind of confidence that you know you'll get your money back but you've gotta prove you've done the work. Now what happens I had one of my 90 day program people talk to me about a guarantee for a Facebook ads course and they can't guarantee results because they're not in charge of Facebook ads. They can guaranteed to give you the knowledge and to set up an ad but they can't actually say you are gonna get X amount. The same with I have a build my list course where I teach you how to build your list within three weeks and you start building your list. But again I can't guarantee that you will get your first 100 subscribers because that's out of my control.

Nakia: There's so many factors that are just without are not within your control.

Teresa: Yeah. So how do you, what are your thoughts on like the money back guarantee situation and how would you play it?

Nakia: So my personal, I just don't do it. I just am not I'm just a woman of my word And I just believe that it's I understand that that some marketers say that we should do that to give people confidence. But you know and I may be missing out on some sales by not having that I'm just not gonna make a guarantee. I believe in it. I know that it works I've had success and I've seen success in it. And if it's not for you or you need a guarantee in order to purchase then you're not my folks. I mean that's just kind of how I feel about it. And I have had so many issues with people when they do the guarantee and there's always someone that says well I didn't get anything out of it. Well and so I am I am just a very transparent person and selling and in everything. And so all over my sales page in my FAQs and the email sequence I wanna say be really sure before you do this because I don't do refunds.

Teresa: Yeah. And I think you're right. You know for me for one some of my products so my membership my club now has three levels and it's like so you can pay monthly And if you come in for the month and you don't like it then you can still pay for that month, you just cancel and you don't pay again. You know. Whereas like I said I just the area is so gray that I just and the whole point of like well show me this And ultimately you know like you said if it if it gets to a point where they're becoming really destructive about it and if they are in a group setting then you don't want it there anyway do you?

Nakia: Yeah you don't. And so and so I would deal with that on a case by case private basis but I am not putting a guarantee on my on my sales page or on anything. And I don't have time to babysit you and check your work. You're a business owner, you know what I mean? And so I just think that that's just and I know that for you know I mean I'm sure Amy Porterfield would probably say no one ever does it and maybe to her they don't but I know for I know lots of people that do and it's just it's just an energy and time suck that I just don't even want in my space. So I'm not I only want people who are who really want to do this and who are going to come. And I have had people that that didn't do the work but they still say it is a great program I just didn't do what I was supposed to do. You know.

Teresa: Me too. You know Yeah It was brilliant but I just didn't do it which you know Okay well that's fine You know you're not gonna get results.

Nakia: Exactly. That's fine. And that goes I thought you were gonna ask me about cause what goes in line with that is lifetime access.

Teresa: Oh okay. Yeah Go on it Yeah.

Nakia: No more lifetime access. Whose lifetime? Yours? Mine? My dog? I mean that is the worst advice. So if no one takes anything else from this episode get rid of lifetime access.

Teresa: Yeah And it's said a lot in our space and all thought is meant. Yes. You know I bought uh and I don't mind sharing who it was but I bought social curator when they did a lifetime access but my decision to buy was based on How long would it be before, cause I was already in social curator. How long would it be before that then you know kind of becomes worth it. So and I worked out it need to be like I think it was maybe a year and a half or something as to when that would pay for itself. And I was like I'm gonna stay anyway I'm gonna be paying for anyway I'm happy to put that money in but that obviously crosses your mind and it's like yeah you know are they doing it to sell it? Are they doing it to you know inject some money and to change it or do something? And again like you said you know I adore my membership It's one of my most favorite things I do. But it doesn't mean I'm gonna have it forever and day.

Nakia: Never Exactly. Yeah.

Teresa: You know and I know people who have done join now on a forever basis and then they've closed it. And it's like these people who are in.

Nakia: I have brought so many things since 2014 when I came into the online space up until now Marie Forleo is the only one who is still doing B school every single year And I'm getting, But you know I'm getting my lifetime access. But other people y'all aren't even doing this program anymore. You weren't even a coach anymore. You aren't even And so why didn't you tell me not that that was why I purchased but you just gotta be careful about that And I don't want people coming back to me saying in five years I bought your copywriting course and I'm you know it's not on the website anymore. Well if you didn't indulge in that back then too bad Oh so sad. Like the lifetime access the guarantee And one more thing that I'm gonna say that people need to get rid of Facebook group.

Teresa: Okay.

Nakia: A Facebook group is a great component to add to many courses but you don't own Facebook. And so, and I'll tell you the biggest example You probably heard of this and why I started changing my advice to people was in 2020 when Marie Forleo decided to close, and I'm saying her name a lot today for not on purpose but yeah she just is the great example in this space when she decided to close the group of for B-school after there was a, there was a law mean you may have heard about there was a huge uproar after the George Floyd and the black lives matter movement and Rachel Rogers was involved and there were there was a lot of turmoil. And so Marie said you know what I'm getting rid of this Facebook group.

Well there were many people who said well I on the sales page it says that there was a Facebook community I joined for that. You owe me that And so that is when my advice changed to people to say I'd use a special language that we may have a community. It may be Facebook It may not And I re that is that is not included That's just gravy on top that I'm giving you and that way you as the business owner can pull it back whenever you want to. Because when you make it a part of your 999, or 997 course then and you and you and many of us do this we have our value ladder and we say the Facebook community is worth $4,000. Well give me my $4,000 when you decide that you're not gonna have that.

Teresa: Oh could you imagine, could you imagine.

Nakia: Could you imagine?

Teresa: Yeah. Someone saying that to you.

Nakia: So stop saying that people. Do not, it's great to have it and I have it with my programs but it is not a promise that I'm making you as a condition to purchasing my course or my program. It's something that we have but it's not something that you are entitled to.

Teresa: And I think specifically courses is such a good point because again I know someone else has done this and they caused a lot of uproar. Whereas I have a Facebook group with my membership but if a something happens in my Facebook group they're all my members and they're all within the membership and they're all on email and they're all in touch with me various different ways So I could easily reach out to every single one of them or send them an email and go right we're moving over here or whatever. Any content we do if we go live or anything all that gets downloaded immediately so we've got access to that. But it's a Facebook group for a membership that I am running currently at the point I would decide to stop, If I ever do then the Facebook closes cause the membership closes. Whereas the course thing like you said how long's a piece of string. Like how long forever are you going to do this. But because, so I've done a course where I've had a Facebook group alongside it but it was a course for a specific amount of time. And a week after the Facebook group archived. Cause one I'm just rubbish in them Like I'm rubbish in my own I couldn't have more than one because I would just be dreadful. But yeah that's such a good point. And like I said I have assumed an example of that and people were really angry.

Nakia: People get very angry about these about that And that has come up a lot lately so I've started advising my clients and in my templates, it's I have language that says This is an option. It is not a guarantee. It is not something that you're entitled to. It is not a part of the 997 or 1997 or however monthly.

Teresa: Yeah yeah So good. There's so much to think about isn't there. And I think you know I genuinely think the membership idea for you is so good because when I think about my business. Like there are some contracts I have in place for different things but then we do an event and that is an entirely different thing. Like you know in terms of money back and what if something happens and what if you know it just I think having these things in place just makes sure that you are not putting yourself out there at risk. You're not at risk of having to. So perfect example We had I had an event last year my first VIP event. I hired an entire hotel. It was amazing really really cool. The week before my daughter who does a week with her dad and a week with me her dad gets COVID and my daughter is meant to come back to me And I had to say to her you can't because if you come back to me and you give me COVID I have to cancel the event and I haven't got anything in place I would've had to have paid the hotel because they had a contract that was signed. I would've had to have paid back everybody that paid because I'd canceled it. I might have been able to well no I wouldn't have been able to move it cause I'd have had to cancel it with the hotel which meant I'd have been out of pocket. Something like about 10 grand like and it would've been an absolute disaster. So as it was and it was her birthday she was devastated I had to leave her I was like you can't come home left her with her dad I then stayed in the house the entire week. Cause I was like I've just realized how vulnerable I am. And anyway thank God you know touch with everything It was fine It went ahead. We were fine All good But it's stuff like that that it's like that could have really caused some damage.

Nakia: Oh Yeah. And speaking of events you know I'm enjoying giving you all these horror stories but I hopeful that they're gonna help people when you think about this but this is another thing that uh that had come up recently in my membership that collaborate and do joint webinars and do joint things together. We really need a contract for that because it's not fair if we come together we do a free webinar, then who owns it? And then one person decides to take that and put it put a price tag on it or put it in something that they're getting paid for and the other person is left out to hang and that's not right. And those are things that we never talked about it because nobody thought to say okay who's gonna own this? How are we gonna do this? How long are we you know just work these things out. And I've been talking I'm not talking about a 20 page contract I'm talking about two pages to say Yeah we're gonna do this We're doing this together I can do this with it. You can do that with it or however that's gonna go And so lots of collaborations happening and you know the biggest misconception that people have about legal is that it that it's bad intent and it's not.

Most people have very good intentions. We just don't think things through what my intentions are or what my thought process is in terms of what we're doing may just be very different from yours. It doesn't make either of us wrong It just means we should probably have a conversation of helped how we're approaching this because we're all creative, we're all business owners and I'm thinking something completely different from you. So let's have a conversation and make sure we're on the same page. And that's all it is It's not that anybody's out to get you. It's usually quite the opposite.

Teresa: But also you know it's that protection I remember I did some training for someone and it was over so many days and it was quite a lot of training and they didn't pay me for it I did it for free which was fine cause I was being put in front of their audience and all this kind of stuff. And then they sent me a message after it saying oh it went ahead so well they loved it. We might run it again and I was like “What do you mean you might run it again? Like hang on a minute What I don't understand like are you telling me you're gonna take what I've taught and you are gonna teach it cause no like that's my stuff.” And they were like and then so when I went back and quizzed them and questioned them and I was like actually I need we need to talk about this.

They kind of went back and went oh yeah no don't worry It's fine And you know if we could just like replay the stuff that you've got cause there were replays but it was me still teaching it and it was within a membership but it was like did you honestly think that was okay. That is not okay. Like that's my stuff. So yeah you honestly it's just about. And some people would literally think they're not being malicious. They're not being and they just think exactly oh I'll do that again Yeah We'll do it again Like you know would not even think that actually that took me a long time to come up with and the structure and everything. So yeah absolutely.

Nakia: All the time all the time.

Teresa: I love it. Nakia you have been fabulous and I love what you're saying I'm rushing off this to go and look at your membership now because whenever I do anything like this I'm like oh no I really just sort these things out And it stays on my list forever in a day And you're like yeah I did not wanna be in that position where oh no Now I'm in trouble because I didn't you know put these things in place. But thank you so so much. Where do you hang out? Where do you want people to come and say hi to you?

Instagram

Nakia: is my place of choice I'm Nakia Gray E S Q So that's N A K I A G R A Y E S Q on Instagram And it's my favorite place I'm getting into reels right now I think I'm like a totally a comedian I'm having so much fun there. So definitely Instagram.

Teresa: I love it I bet What are your kids like when you're like I'm doing reels.

Nakia: They are so annoyed. They're like mom you know my son is he picks me apart He's like your lip syncing Wasn't exactly on cue on that one.

Teresa: You're like yeah thanks for that Like I am a little bit older than you and this is very much out I covered.

Nakia: I am having a blast. Are you on Instagram?

Teresa: I love Instagram. That's my favorite. Now I've done

Nakia: And I'm gonna follow you.

Teresa: A couple of reels I'm not very I it's on in fact my team and I have a meeting next week and we have a meeting every week but a big one next week And it's like I've been sending all these things through to the agenda and reels is back on it Cause it's like oh we really need to do this.

Nakia: Yeah It's whole fun. And at first I was very intimidated by cause I love video and I love that but the reels just felt silly Like I don't wanna be like singing and dancing and pointing. But there's so many other ways and it's just so funny. And it's been great for my audience to see me in that light because I actually am quite funny.

Teresa: This is the I think I'm hilarious but then.

Nakia: I'm hilarious.

Teresa: Yeah You do something people act not so much but also because of the job you do like we need human.

Nakia: I've gotta make that funny. Yeah.

Teresa: Like you know what I mean. We need to be able to go okay You are not gonna talk to me in a way that I have no idea and make me feel stupid and an idiot for not knowing these things are having in place, so. Honestly this has been a blast I'm gonna go check out the membership go follow you on Instagram check out your reels Maybe get some inspiration You never know. But Nakia Thank you so very much being a guest in the podcast.

Nakia: Thank you so much for having me this was so much fun.

Teresa: There we go that was the lovely Nakia, I really hope you enjoyed that episode. I did there was lots of great good info and some really important things to think about in terms of how we run our businesses. So yeah I really hope that that was useful. Okay I'll be back next week with a solo episode talking all about values and how you can run your business in your values. And so you come from a more heart centered and I'll explain by what I mean by that. Okay I will see you next week. Have a fabulous week.