Today’s episode of the podcast is an interview with Dr Nadia Brown who is a sales strategist, consultant, trainer and the founder of The Doyenne Agency. Dr Nadia works with business owners, companies and corporations to multi revenue and awaken the consistent closer in your sales team. In this episode we talk all about how to get over the fear of selling and how to close those sales!
KEY TAKEAWAYS COVERED IN THE PODCAST
- Think of selling as coming from a place of service – make sure what you are selling is right for that person (e.g. right product, time, price etc).
- Give people time and space to think about it.
- A lot of buyers are sceptical and may have been burned before – be understanding towards this.
- Walk them through the process at their pace, not yours.
- Qualify your leads – give your leads an application to fill out prior to your call.
- Ask what they want to accomplish and what their goals are.
- They need to understand what a difference you are going to make to them.
- Meet their objectives first, before you tell them everything you can offer.
- Objection handling can be on a call or on a sales page – this is when you talk about overcoming objections but this can be a little bit negative/overwhelming.
- Instead – Clarifying questions – people will always have questions and we can address them.
- It’s ok for people to say no if you are not the right fit for them – we have to help our customers to be comfortable with this.
- Have a level of confidence that shows you are detached from the outcome and gives them the space they need.
- We can’t control when people buy or if they buy – our job is to show up to guide them to that decision and nurture the relationship.
- It may take years to close a sale!
- If it’s a good fit, they will come back when they are ready.
- Make sure your copy tells the story and add videos so people can really get a feel for you.
- Email – add videos of you to allow people to get that connection with you.
- If you don’t sell – ask questions to your audience to understand. Review who your audience is and if the product is right for them.
- If you don’t have a large enough audience to sell a low ticket item – you will have cash flow problems.
THE ONE THING YOU NEED TO REMEMBER ABOVE ALL ELSE…
You are coming from a place of service – your product/service has to be a good fit for your customer.
HIGHLIGHTS YOU SIMPLY CAN’T MISS
- An introduction to Nadia 07:32
- Tips for selling 15:47
- Objection handing 27:30
- Closing the sale 29:50
- Selling low ticket items 36:14
- Understanding why you didn’t sell 39:10
- Value ladders 42:15
LINKS TO RESOURCES MENTIONED IN TODAY’S EPISODE
Check Nadia out:
Hello and welcome to this week's episode of the podcast. How are you doing? We're in April which means we're getting closer to spring. I can't wait better one day in the UK. I think it was like. Last weekend where it was so lovely and it was so nice to be sat in the garden.
And if you find me on Instagram, there was a little sneak peek that may be garden and watches coming back. If you don't follow them on Instagram, you're thinking, what on earth is this woman talking about? So basically last summer I had my garden landscaped and changed and everything. And I followed it along on Instagram.
And I have to say, I never got such a reaction. Like this is what's really funny about things like social media is we spend hours creating this perfect content. And then I literally go onto Instagram stories and go, “Hey, I'm doing my garden. Want to see?” And people were like, they loved it. So we, um, ever a tweaker.
I am changing some things this summer and I've decided that a couple of the areas we designed it and worked very well and we're going to change them up and that sort of thing. Anyway, um, I haven't come on to history of gardening. Although I am getting into it, I have to say like, I've even planted some seeds.
My dad's planting some tomato plants for me and we're going to give them a go. And I'm denotes of Herb's. Cause I cook a lot with herbs and I spend a fortune, you know, if I can grow them great. So I'm obviously getting really old. Uh, that's my concern now I love gardening and indoor plants and things like that.
But anyway, let's get on with today's episode. So today we are talking about selling. And this is so perfect for this week because this, I don't know whether you've noticed, you may not have noticed, but basically I've changed up how I'm doing my social media. And I will tell you about this because I've got a whole series of things I want to talk about in terms of actual social media and what you do at what phase, because sometimes I think you look at someone who's a different level to you and thinks well or a different timeframe, or has more stuff or whatever. And you think “They do it like this? I should do it like this.” It's like me looking at Gary V thinking “I should be on every platform every day.”
Love all the content. Well, apparently he has a team of like 40 people that helps him. So when I have a team of 40 people that helped me with my content, then yeah, fair enough. I can send up on all these platforms. But right now I can't. So I'm not at his level. However, I am at a different level to where I was and we've changed of how we're doing. But you'll see.
Sorry. I'm like, Rambling on, but you'll see that basically now we have a focus to our content for the week. So I work with one of my amazing team. We work out what the focus is going to be, or I work at the focus is going to be, I then write some sort of big content that I do for the emails. And then from that, she's able to polite some bits of content and help me create some of the social media.
So that's really good. And, uh, finding that so useful, cause I'm kind of taking you on a journey. So, you know, at the beginning of the week I might talk about what something is and why you need it. And then towards the end of the week, I'll give you hints and tips. I might tell you a story. I might tell you something that really irritates me about it or something that like is amazing about it.
So this week I'm talking about fear and getting over fear. And this is really interesting that this podcast is lined up with that week, because I think that one thing that people think when they think of selling is they're scared to sell and I get it. I totally and utterly get it. It can be a super hard conversation to have.
So I was so grateful today to be able to bring you Dr. Nardia Brown, who is an expert in all things selling. Now I have to say we had such a laugh. She was a scream. We had a really good fun and a really lovely chat. You know? Cause it is interesting, you know? Obviously when I started the podcast, I pretty much knew everybody I was bringing on, or if I didn't know them personally, I'd followed their stuff and seen their stuff.
And therefore I would know what type of person they're like. And now 180 whatever episodes in, I am lucky in the sense that I get lots of requests, which is lovely for people to come on my podcast. As, you know, lots of them, I say no to, because they're not the right fit. So when I do have someone on the, I haven't had a personal interaction with, I obviously do my homework, but it's always interesting to know, you know, well, let's see how this goes and what they like and, and how we get on, but she was just brilliant.
Loved it a bit, such a great conversation. So, let me tell you a bit about Dr. Nardia Brown. She's a sales strategist, a consultant, a trainer, and the founder of The Doyenne. I think I said that wrong agency, a sales agent that works with business owners, companies, and corporations to multi revenue and awakened the consistent, closer within your sales team.
Gosh, could I have said that any worse than I did. I, you know, I hate reading and talking because I'm not very good at it. So basically she helps people learn how to close and how to sell. And she brings over 15 years experience in leadership and powerful conversations and achieving goals and the respect for people to develop a comprehensive sales process, to increase closing rates and satisfied client retention.
So what I loved about Dr. Nadia, is that like, it wasn't that horrible. I'm going to share and bleach sales conversation. It wasn't that kind of like, you know, make him cry, pin him down, ask them if they got their credit card. Absolutely. None of the source. It was so like, a “How I would like to do selling.” “How I like to kind of approach that process in terms of have a conversation. Is it a right fit?” Let's be honest about it. If it's not then absolutely no problem at all. So it was a really good conversation. I really hope you can get lots from it. We do talk about high ticket items, but we do also talk about general selling as well. So I think there's some great stuff you're gonna be able to pick up in this.
I hope you enjoy today's episode.
Okay. It is with my great pleasure that I get to introduce to you the very lovely Dr. Nadia Brown. Nadia welcome to the podcast. How are you doing?
Dr. Nadia: I'm great. Thank you so much for having me.
Teresa: My pleasure. Now my listeners know, we always talk about the web because like we're British, we're obsessed and you're over in Phoenix, Arizona, which is just amazing.
And couldn't be probably more different weather-wise from where I am right now. So you are enjoying the sun and I have to say, and I'll see you guys don't see this, but you've got such lovely, bright colors, but it's like, you are bringing the sunshine today. So thanks for bringing a bit of sunshine. We always start off with explaining to my audience who you are and how you got to do the thing that you do today.
So if you are cool, we will start with that.
Dr. Nadia: Absolutely. So. It's funny because I talk about, you know, people are like, “How did you get into sales? How did you start training?” And I'm like, “Because I absolutely sucked it.”
And I'm like, if anyone can learn it, so can you. And, um, when I first started my business, I was really focused on helping women step into their leadership. You know, I have a book Shattering Your Inner Glass Ceiling with all, you know, women's empowerment, but when it came to the sales part, Oh my gosh, it was just one of those.
I'd rather cut off my wrist. Do you know, to have to talk about or invite people to work with me. And so, because of that, I made a commitment to myself that I would figure it out. And when I did it opened the doors to other opportunities that I didn't see coming. And I have some really good friends who were like, “We need to hear your voice about this in the marketplace, and you really should talk about it more and do more of this.”
So yeah, that's how I got started.
Teresa: That's that's really cool actually, that you identified, you were very good at it. And also I love the fact that your friends, like your voice needs to be heard, because I think like, When I think sales, like an image of someone comes into my head, like, you know, a male in his forties, fifties in a suit, looking a little bit like, yeah, like this isn't very nice.
And I, and I also think, and I apologize to my male listeners. Like as women, like there is something about selling. Did you think, or I just made up did you think?
Dr. Nadia: Oh, absolutely not. It's very. In it, you know, when women don't buy like men, like we don't purchase in the same process. And then we also, therefore don't sell like men. But a lot of times we're women, when we talk about sales and I'll ask that question, like, we. But just like you said, when you think about sales, what comes to image comes to mind? And I have a PowerPoint with that guy, you just, suit. And he's like, yeah. And he was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, I don't.
I don't even relate. Right. He's not the right gender. I would never be caught dead in that sin. Right. How do I been embodied that that is me. How do I show up authentically as me and sell in a way that feels comfortable yet is also effective.
Teresa: Yeah. So did you say, uh, when did you write your book?
Dr. Nadia: Out in 2013.
Teresa: So did you already started on this sales journey then, or was that prior to the sales journey?
Dr. Nadia: That was prior to the sales journey. That was probably while I was still in my, “If I build it, they won't come.” So very naive.
Teresa: Oh, do you know what that's so funny. I am you, I use that phrase a lot because of the fact that unfortunately there are lots of small business owners out there and business owners in general that think like, “If I just find my space on the internet and I put a website up and then I make up a Facebook page, I don't need to do anything else.”
And they. Whoever they are, are going to come in droves knocking at my door going “Teresa, can I, can I buy your stuff? I don't know what you're saying, but can I buy it?”
Dr. Nadia: “I don't know who you are, but I still want to buy it.” Right?
Teresa: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So, how, how did you go about that journey of learning for about the sales and becoming comfortable with it? Was there someone that you went to that was like your go-to mentor or how did that come about?
Dr. Nadia: Funny story. So I did hire a couple of different mentors, which is several different trainings. And one of the challenges was How do I sell, like me? How do I be an effective salesperson and yet not be the sleazy sales girl, right.
That was like, I don't want to be hurt. And I had a mentor who actually hired me to join their team. I did not know Teresa that I was going to be doing sales. I did not know everyone to understand that I went in thinking I was going to be doing one thing. And I knew that I would get like some sales training and coaching, but I never thought like I would be in that role.
Right. I was like, “Okay, I can watch videos and do some things.”, but never will I be the sales person? Teresa I became the sales person, like number one sales person. And, and I'm just going through this process. I'm learning, um, you know, having conversations, I'm doing my thing. And one day, one of the owners of that company called me and he says, “Nadia, Do you realize that within a past 72 hours you sold like a hundred thousand dollars or some really ridiculous number.”
Right. And I was like, “I did?” I was totally wasn't even tracked at it. And I was like “What?”
Teresa: Are you sure? Is that another Nadia again? So people could be confused.
Dr. Nadia: People called me because I don't think that is accurate. Right. And so in that conversation and some subsequent conversations, you know, they were like, “You're the only person that has come within our team and has been able to sell at this level that wasn't like an owner.”
Right. And so it caused me to really pause because he also pointed out, like my style was also very different from their style. And so then I put my researcher head on. Cause I'm like, “Whoa, let's take a look at this.” Right. And so like, you're right. One, I'm selling, I'm selling at a high level, what is making it different?
And I was like, All I'm doing though, is having conversations. Like my husband would come by my office some days. And then when I would come out and say, “Oh my gosh babe, I just closed the deal.” And he was like, “You did, like, I thought you were in there talking to one of your friends.” I guess it kind of felt that way.
And so that was, that was the start. And, you know, within that team, they had been, I started doing trainings for the other sales team members and some of their clients. And that was kind of the catalyst that really put me out there because like, you know what, I can do this and I can do it my way and still do it.
Teresa: And so again, I think when people think sales, like they think of that guy and then they think of like all the horrible tactics and also I've seen sales training in the past or some sales training where it's like, As they feel desperately trying to convince someone to do something they don't want to do.
Like it's a bit like those awful tactics of like, I don't know if you have it home in the States, but you know, when a double glazing person or a bathroom person comes to your house and basically won't leave until you sign the paperwork and they keep reducing the price, they keep reducing the price.
Like that's, I think that's why I, and lots of other people think I don't want to do that. Cause I don't want to look like that. Is that, is that your experience?
Dr. Nadia: Oh, my goodness. Yes. And a lot of people I've had people ask, like, how do I convince people to work with me? I'm like wrong attitude, or how do I overcome objections?
I'm like, “Oh my goodness. Don't get me started. Oh my I hate that term.” Right. And, you know, because it puts you in an adversarial relationship with the people you say you want to work with and you go into that conversation feeling like I have to twist their arm, or I have to overpower them and come out the Victor.
And it's like, no, no, no, no, no. We need to go in with a collaborative atmosphere and or attitude. We need to go in also thinking about “Is this someone I even want to work with?” Right. You, you know, like sometimes in this conversation you talk to someone and you can feel it and we sometimes ignore it, but you can feel it. And it's like, no, no, no, this isn't a great fit for whatever reason.
Maybe it's not now. Maybe it's just not a good fit. And so, you know, helping people to understand that, no, you don't have to go into that conversation that way. Um, because that's going to impact how you show up or how people feel in that conversation as well.
Teresa: So I've got some questions asked around that, but I'm interested.
How would you show up in the conversation then? What sort of things like, so when you were selling, was that a cold sell? Was that a warm sell? What was the sell that was going on in that scenario?
Dr. Nadia: So it knows sales, they were warmer. So it was definitely leveraging inbound marketing. So people had raised their hands to have the conversation.
Um, and then one of the things that I show up is I just show up as very inquisitive. I want to get to know you. I want to get to know what your goals are. I want to get, you know, to see if this is a good fit. I have literally told people do not buy this. You know, like for whatever reason, this isn't a good fit.
Maybe it's not the right time. Don't buy this. And so just showing up in a place from upcoming, from a place of service, like, is this a good fit? Is this the right person? Is this the right time? Is this the right product? Um, sometimes I've gone into a conversation thinking that they were going to enroll in some, you know, one program.
And then during a conversation I'm like, “Oh, that's not the best fit, but this over here might be a better fit for where you are right now.” And they, you know, invested there. And it's not always because it was less expensive. Sometimes it was more expensive. And so just really taking that attitude when you go into a sales conversation versus the attitude of, I have to get the credit card, you know, I have to convince them that this is the right fit.
And if I don't, then I have failed and that's, that's not true.
Teresa: So how, cause that seems like totally up my street in terms of approaching it, talking about it. I have, um, a high ticket 90 day program and I have my Academy, which is $59 so loads of getting comparison. And I, I do take that strategy in terms of we'll have a conversation.
I'd be really honest if it wasn't a good fit or if I. Cause I could have worked directly with them. Like if I don't think that I'm a good fit or they're a good fit for me, I would say no. And I try and be really relaxed about it and very kind of like, you know, and this is this sometimes I don't know, do the hesitancy sometimes people need, like that little bit more persuasion and that little bit more confidence.
[00:17:51] So do they and how do you do that?
[00:17:54] Dr. Nadia: [00:17:54] To get, I think right now Teresa, especially given the fact that you know, there have been a lot of people that have been burned, right? There is a level of skepticism that you see sometimes in those sales conversations. I think sometimes people also bring their own perceptions around sales and their own fears to that conversation.
[00:18:14] So what I've learned for me is to give people the space and honor their process, right. So if they need time to think about it, Okay. What does that time look like? Let's schedule a follow-up is there additional information? And I've had people say, Oh my gosh. And they're like, thank you for listening. Like this one woman I talked to, it was a $15,000 investment.
[00:18:36] So this is nothing to sneeze at. Right.
[00:18:39] Dr. Nadia: [00:18:39] And she called and she was like, can I just talk this out? And so, you know, she just went through her process out loud and I just basically just sat there and listened. And then she said, “Okay, let me think about it.” And I was like, “Okay.” And so she did, she ended up saying yes, but I think I had to be cool.
[00:18:57] Right. Because sometimes we get excited. We're like, “Oh my gosh, I like you. I want to work with you.” And it's like tampering our excitement to allow them the space to process, you know. But understanding that people are definitely, a lot of our buyers are definitely more skeptical. Many of them have possibly been burned by other programs that didn't deliver.
[00:19:19] And, and, you know, given some of the uncertainty in the economy of things that we've been dealing with, you know we're like, “Should I make this investment right now versus other”. So we also have to come from that place of understanding some of the things that they may be thinking about and then honoring that and kind of, I imagine it kind of holding their hand and just kind of walking them through the process at their pace and not at ours.
[00:19:41] Teresa: [00:19:41] And that's really interesting because I could be guilty of getting excited, like. Because my brain just starts kicking in, so “I could do this. We could do this. I'll change that. You'd be amazing.” And it's like, and then I really want the work because I know the difference I can make to them and that, you know, their journey, their business, themselves.
[00:20:02] And therefore you do sometimes be like, “Oh yes, right now we can do this.” It's like, I love the fact, you know, talking about honoring that kind of conversation with them, letting them do. Because we've all ain't that I heard this one scenario, I won't name who the person was that was doing it, but they were like, they basically, they were on a sales call to someone very big, um, not the actual person to one of their team.
[00:20:27] And they said, you know, it's X amount of money, whatever it was. And it was a huge amount of money. And they were like, you know, could you raise that if you got credit cards?
[00:20:34] Like, could you actually imagine? And then they said, this person now I wasn't in, so I don't know this fact.
[00:20:40] But they said like, you know, “Well, could you raise that money?”
[00:20:43] And they were like, “No, I don't think I could.” well, what if those against your heads, if that you could do it then? And it's like, “What? Like literally, what are you talking about?” Like, I'm all for investment. And I have taken myself to levels of uncomfortableness in terms of. I've got to invest in me, but I would never put myself, like if anybody came to me and said, “Right, I'm gonna, I want to be part of the program. I'm going to put it on credit cards or I'm going to put it on whatever.” Then I would feel particularly uncomfortable with that because it's like, you know, I don't want you to taking that risk really in terms of putting yourself at risk. So, so yeah.
[00:21:20] So tell me about the, some of the strategies then in terms of actually getting on the phone and having a conversation.
[00:21:28] So when someone says like, cause obviously they have to raise their hand at some point. So whether they, for the 90 day program, by the time this comes out, it's, I've tweaked a bit. It does application process. So they're going apply. I'll look. And then if I think this makes sense, I'll invite them to a call.
[00:21:44] So they put their hands up. They've raised their hand. And then what kind of things should we be doing on the call to help out or before the call even.
[00:21:52] Dr. Nadia: [00:21:52] I love it. Wow I love that you have an application process. I'm all about qualifying your leads, especially when you're leveraging phone conversations and, you know, come into the conversation, having read it and being able to acknowledge, you know, “Thank you so much for filling this out. I've read this. I have some more questions.” It makes people really feel heard and honored, you know, that you've done that. I think some times it's also honoring people's time because they are, they're also investing time and taking that time out to speak with you. And a lot of our clients or our prospects are busy. Right. And so those are things that people really pay attention to. But I think the other thing then is when I like to level set. So again, just make confirming the amount of time that we have. Let them making sure they understand that this is a conversation about us potentially working together. Um, definitely don't and are probably overdo that sometimes because I don't want that whole bait and switch field as an audio thing.
[00:22:52] It's totally my issue. I own it. And, you know, just having my questions together to ask them. And, you know, and, but then giving them the space to really talk about what it is that they want to accomplish and then you know, what their goals are. And then we talk about how we may be able to work together.
[00:23:09] And so then I walked them through that. I think it's important for us to help them connect the dots. Cause like you said, we get excited. These programs, our babies, we created many of them ourselves, you know, so we know all the intimate details, but helping them connect the dots in terms of what they say they want.
[00:23:27] And how we can help them get there is really important in that conversation before we get to all the cool things that we get to do together, I think it's important to get their buy-in so they understand how they will be different after working with us.
[00:23:45] And I think that's the whole thing is that, especially for our higher ticket item, if you're coming to invest time with me, if you're going to be my coach, my therapist, my, you know, whatever it is, you know, person that I'm going to come and do some kind of program with, that you need to pay attention to me and who I am. Because that's why you pay those high ticket amounts. Like if I just wanted to be one of the members in the big membership group, then I would just join the membership. But if I want that more one to one, then I want to be heard. So I love that. I love, I love the fact of, and I've done a little bit of this in the past where sometimes I've got on a, some people came on a wait list, but then didn't convert off the wait list.
[00:24:27] So because they'd put themselves on a wait list, like saying. Yes I want this. I then send videos of me and their site and talks about what I liked about it, what I thought, you know, them and where I think they going and what they wanted from it. And then I managed to get to of them. I have something like seven videos to convert, which is insane. But like, so I know imagine them, right.
[00:24:51] Application process, they fill out an application. I've got some information. I can go and look at their social and their website, and this is the best thing about the world or ignite because we can literally find out so much stuff. So then I can get on the call with them and I can say to them, so, you know, tell me, tell me about, you know, where you're at and what you want and what you need help with them and go through the stuff they've answered.
[00:25:12] And then you get to a point where you're having some match. I guess. So if they really want to grow their email lists then I have to kind of meet them with that conversation about, How the program might help them do that thing. It's that. Okay.
[00:25:29] Dr. Nadia: [00:25:29] You have to understand, you know, even though I'm sure they're going to get lots of good news. They need to know and understand that that one, or, you know, whatever is one, two, three things that they're looking for will also be covered.
[00:25:42] And that they'll do that moving forward. And I think that you've done is really good because I know when I'm being sold, right. Or I'm having those conversations where I'm the buyer I'm on the other side of the table. One thing that really helped me convert quickly is when you've taken the time to get to know something about me before that conversation or outside of what I might've shared.
[00:26:03] Um, or even cold. I remember someone that reached out to me cold. I had never spoken to her, but when she included the name of my YouTube channel in her email, you know, I was like, “Well, she has pause long enough to figure out something about me.” You know, so it was, I was like, I'm willing to at least have a conversation. I don't know if I'll say yes, I ended up saying yes, but you know, it was like, I noticed like those little things, it's like, “Okay, all right, you took the time.”
[00:26:29] It wasn't this mass. I just going to send this out and see who's who, by who bites. It was like taking a moment to pause and say, “Hey, all right, I know this one thing about you.”
[00:26:38] Teresa: [00:26:38] Sometimes that moment doesn't have to take very long. It can literally be, as you know, you've got the bulk of the email written. It could literally be like polite that polite, that polite, that that's great.
[00:26:48] Or the intro you change, the chunk stays the same. And then the, the outro or whatever you, you tweak as well. But, but I love that and I love the fact of, you know, whatever. So, you know, if they come to you saying these are my three objectives. That it doesn't matter that, well, I can do this and this and this and this.
[00:27:06] We have to meet those three objectives first. So let's, let's talk about, because one of the things I want to ask you is you said, um, objection, handling. Now. Coming from, right. I love it when people say things that I'm like, “Ooh, I might said those terms, or I would took the right this.” Cause they didn't like, you know, calls me out, but for the right as in, okay, let's hear that other opinion.
[00:27:30] So in the online world, it is a very often talked about objection handling. Sometimes objection handling is on a zoom call when you're having a conversation. Sometimes that's on a sales page of, okay. So what are the reasons people wouldn't buy this in case someone's wondering what we're on about, and then you meet those objections with your answers.
[00:27:52] So tell me why you weren't keen on it and, and how you see that?
[00:27:57] Dr. Nadia: [00:27:57] Well, when the majority of us leveraged inbound marketing tech, you know, techniques and strategies where people are learning about us, they're doing their due diligence, and then they're raising their hand in some way. To say that they're interested in learning more about working with this.
[00:28:10] And when you look up the definitions of overcome and objections, they're not very positive, you know, overcome as like an overpowering your adversary, like in a battle, like is when you really take a moment to think about it. It is not a very positive stance to take when you're in, especially when you're like a coach or consultant or trying to you're going to be a lot of times working really closely with our clients.
[00:28:35] And you think about, I don't think I want our relationship to start where I have like, had to pretty much beat you up. If you will give you the work with me. Now, you know, I get the, I get the essence of it. And so when I call that part of the sales conversation is clarifying questions. You know, people are going to have questions.
[00:28:55] Can I afford this right now? You know, where am I going to pull the money from? Like all the things that they're thinking about? Well, I take the time. Will I actually show up and do it? Can they help me get the results? Do I like her enough to make this, you know, like all the things that they have going through their heads.
[00:29:10] Um, so it's legitimate, but I think it's the energy behind it. And so just shifting it. Clarifying questions. Yes. People will have questions. Yes. We can address them. I love being able to address them before you even get to that part of the conversation. But I think again, the essence and the energy behind overcoming objections really has us coming into that conversation in a place that for many of us, I especially think as women is very uncomfortable.
[00:29:37] Teresa: [00:29:37] Yeah, so, okay. So let's say we have, we've done the call. We've listened to them. We know it's a great fit. We've met their, their needs. You know, we've explained how our service or our product fits them as they are now. And we're at the point right. Where we need to sell. I mean, like get them to make a decision. Because that's what we really want.
[00:29:59] If the decisions, no. It's no, but at least, you know, like the worst thing is just not knowing. So how would that conversation go? Like what kind of words, what language you would use, how do you, because you said something earlier and I thought, well, that's good. Cause you said it really firmly but friendly.
[00:30:18] Like how do you do that?
[00:30:21] Dr. Nadia: [00:30:21] I think when I agree totally with you, that I tell people all the time, our role in the sales conversation is to get people to a buying decision. And sometimes that is no. And that's the best decision. I think, you know, there are a couple of ways you can do that. One in the beginning you could just put it out there. And I think sometimes, especially when we're working with women to give them permission to say no, because sometimes, you know, women have a very unique relationship with the word ‘No', I don't know what it is. That's a whole separate podcast, right? It could be, you know, in the beginning of the conversation before you even dive deep, you know, at the time that we're going to spend together today is for us to determine if it's a good fit for us to work together.
[00:30:59] And if it's not it's okay. It's totally okay for you to say no. Right. And this is going through that conversation. I think. Also once you, you know, like you said, you helped them connect the dots. We talked about the program, we stayed at the investment and now we're at that place where, what questions do you have?
[00:31:17] You know, just you just asking sometimes it's scales question. So depending on their response, I may say on a scale of 1 to 10, if everything was perfect, you had the money, the time was right. You know, where are you on that scale? Anything. Seven or low less is probably not for whatever reason, depending on how the conversation goes.
[00:31:37] I may probe a little bit deeper, you know, are there any other questions out that you may have? Is there anything that I didn't address? Is there anything that isn't clear or is it just, you know, not the right time. But I think helping our clients get comfortable with, no, I know I've been there on the other side.
[00:31:54] Like for whatever reason, it just wasn't. But I just felt uncomfortable saying those especially if I like the person, I was like, I don't want to, you know, I don't want to let you down or be a disappointment, but for whatever reason, this just isn't a fit. And so I think. You know, us just helping them acknowledge and be okay.
[00:32:11] Speak to the elephant in the room, maybe, you know, and that's okay.
[00:32:15] Teresa: [00:32:15] Yeah. And I think, do you think there's a lot of, uh what's what am I trying to say? That one of the really good sales and I won't say tactics, cause it's not a tactic, but there's something about that air of confidence. Like no one, like when it's scrappy and it's like, “Oh, but this, and then this, and then this.” it's like, the desperation is oozing out of them like. And that then makes you sort of go, “Oh, hang on a minute. I don't want to be like, thanks very much.” Like awkward. Whereas I think. When you're in your own space and it's sometimes super hard to do that, given like you want to make the sales. So is that something you can only do when you're in that space or is that something you have to teach yourself to do?
[00:33:02] I now have lots of sales conversations and there are days when I'm totally detached. And there are other days when for whatever reason I am really, you know, I don't know. Sometimes I allow my own stuff or my goals or whatever it is. Right. You know, sometimes it's hard to separate that stuff, but to your point, that level of confidence.
[00:33:20] Almost that cool indifference, that cool detachment from it of that outcome. And really giving people that space is very effective, but it's not easy to do. And you have to constantly do it every time you show up to a sales call. You have to remember, I need to be detached from the outcome because we can't control when people buy.
[00:33:43] We can't control if they buy. Our job is to show up to, to guide them to that decision and continue to nurture the relationship. Because I had people come back years later and say, “Okay, I'm ready.” Or “I always knew I was going to work with you, but now is the right time. Or now is the perfect offer that you have that I feel fit.” And I'm like, seriously, but I had no control over when I just had to keep showing up.
[00:34:08] Teresa: [00:34:08] Yeah, yeah. Such a good point. And also I think about the kind of tactics that are really pressuring and really awkward. If you come out of that conversation saying no, if you've managed to that conversation I know. You are never going back there are you? You are not returning to, to that person?
[00:34:30] Teresa: [00:34:30] I want nothing to do with you ever again. Because that whole process is so uncomfortable. Whereas actually owning your space, being confident that you are a good. You know, this is a good product. You're a good person for that. You can help. But knowing that actually now isn't the right time. They are more likely to then come back when the time is right.
[00:34:52] Dr. Nadia: [00:34:52] Absolutely. And I've seen it happen time and time again, where it's, you know, it's okay. People have kept in touch or, you know, just the different things that we do, whether it's our newsletters, whether it's like review your podcast, whatever it is that we're doing to continue to nurture that relationship.
[00:35:09] But because. And people have told me, you know, I felt heard, you know, you listened to me, you gave me that space to make my own decisions. I did have the pressure. So now I actually want to buy, you know, all those different things matter to people. And if you continue to nurture that relationship, if it's a good fit, they'll come back.
[00:35:28] Teresa: [00:35:28] Absolutely. So how does it differ from then the lower to get items like, because like I said, I've got two extremes, I've got a high ticket one-to-one or I've got a membership of $59 a month. So do you still take some of your, how do you take that in? Because, because let's, let's take the membership and funnily enough, I'm working on a launch at the moment and I'm looking at like what I can do as bonuses.
[00:35:55] And I was talking to my team and I was like, you know, what if I gave everybody a 15 minute call and like. But what if X amount of people join that you just physically can't do that? So how do you make someone heard when you can't give them that, that one-to-one, is it just completely different selling?
[00:36:19] Most people are like, okay, if this sucks, right, I have it, you know, invest at 15,000, like 50 bucks, I spend that sometimes, you know, at Starbucks or whatever. Right. So, you know, they tend to. The thought process a lot of times, maybe a little different, but I think there are things that we can do. One is looking at our copy, making sure our copy kind of tells the story, or if we put that video on that page asking questions so people can really feel, feel us. And then even in like our email sequences, there are things that we can leverage, whether it's videos or, you know, different things to really help people get that feeling of connection. Even though they may not be having that conversation with us. Like one-on-one, so it's really leveraging our personality and what that looks like.
[00:37:03] And I love like one of the tools I'm using now that I absolutely love is called BombBomb. And, you know, unless you do these videos and emails. And so whether it's the one-on-one followups. Because I'm doing a launch. I have an event coming up soon and people that have registered, I actually sent them a video.
[00:37:20] And I'm like, “Hi Teresa I'm so happy that you registered and you know, what is one thing that you would like to learn or take away.” Of people having like, “Oh my god I can't believe this.” No. I also look for ways to have fun with it. And it's the lower ticket product. It was, you know, something that we haven't done for a long time. I haven't done it in a while, so I'm really excited to do it.
[00:37:42] And. Right now the volume is allowing me to, to do it, but of course, once the volume picks up, then it maybe some probably won't be all personalized. I'll probably just have to do something very more generic, but I still want to leverage that because people get to see me and as part of my heart and my values that people feel, heard and felt, and, you know, they have that, that connection, even if they're not working with me at a higher level.
[00:38:07]Teresa: [00:38:07] Yeah. And I think you're right. I think from kind of the grinder, in terms of like the free content, the podcasts, the, the social media posts, like everybody that messages me, I message back. Now I can't always guarantee it'll be within the same day or maybe even a couple of days, but I always do, unless I lose it.
[00:38:27] Like in Instagram, I lose messages really easily, just so you know, in case you Instagram DM me and now you're about to go, “Well, I messaged you, you didn't message me back.” But like that sort of thing where you can keep that kind of that touch and that, that response. So my next question is if you've built an audience, okay, so you've got an audience and just serving them and they're enjoying your content and they're enjoying your stuff and you then go to sell via email, let's say, or you invite in something and they don't convert. How do you know that is like, where do you draw your conclusions from? Like, how is it the wrong product? Did I not sell it well enough? Because everybody would instantly go to, I didn't sell it well enough. Like the mistake is obviously with me, not that it's the wrong people, wrong product, wrong time, wrong, whatever.
[00:39:16] But I didn't sell it enough. So people think, how am I, how can I sell it better? So. Sorry. I've just literally thrown a load of random words like you're there. And you've got to make sense of that question.
[00:39:28] Dr. Nadia: [00:39:28] I get it. Yeah I think you know, it depends because you're looking at. It depends on what type of analytics also that you get. So there are a couple of, yeah, you're right. Most of the time we were like, I didn't do a good enough job selling it, but I'm like, you can never sell to the wrong person. It doesn't matter how hard you try. Like if it's not the right product or the right person is not going to convert.
[00:39:50] If you can, you could ask questions. Hm. Um, sometimes it's, it helps to do some presale to kind of warm people up to kind of gauge interest to see, you know, like, you know, what's going on with the audience. And then also does audience engagement. And I think sometimes too, we grow and evolve and we don't realize that sometimes we may have outgrown or shifted our product.
[00:40:16] So I know like for me, I tend to, I work with boths, I've worked with newer entrepreneurs that are really just getting accustomed to having sales conversations or getting over their fears. And then I also work with higher in, you know, higher level, more experienced entrepreneurs that are already at that, you know, multi-six, I want to get to seven or eight figures.
[00:40:36] Right. That's a different conversation. And so I have to be careful because. For one I'm like, okay, now let's look at your team. Let's look at your leadership. Let's look at, you know, certain things, but if you're just starting out, you're not even thinking about that. Right. And so I think sometimes we, we also have to kind of pay attention to the content and where, you know, what it is that we are.
[00:40:58] What we're selling and who we're selling it to. And if there's a way to survey or kind of get a feel of who's on your list, that also kind of helps. So who's in your community or your tribe and where they are, that helps to kind of gauge, okay. Is it me? Is it the copy or is it a completely wrong offer for my audience?
[00:41:16] Teresa: [00:41:16] And I think that's so true. I think often when we build an audience, we just focus on the building part. We don't necessarily think about it. We've got the right people, but also when I think about my audience. And I think about some of the people on my list, some of my products will not fit them now, or some of them won't be at the right level they've wanted or and actually, because they came in on this type of lead magnet for years ago, and now I don't offer that type of stuff anymore. Now I do something different or now tweaked it a bit and they can't see themselves in my product. So, yeah, I think that's really interesting. I think we just, especially with things like email lists, it's like just build, build, build, build, build, and the sales are going to build with it.
[00:41:59] And it's like, well, not if three years ago you were doing something that was a very different offer to a very different audience. So what are your thoughts then? And I'm conscious of your time. So I went too, too much time on and just ask this last one. Right? So what are your thoughts then? Have you, you obviously know about it in a model or a value ladder or whatever the language is they use for it.
[00:42:19] So you have a high end, mid end and low end pricing. So that basically, and the reason obviously people are listening says, you're not sure what I'm talking about, the reason is that someone can work with you on every level. So obviously the lower, the price, the less hands-on touch the higher the price, the more one-to-one.
[00:42:36] So do you see that as working and you just tweak the sales approach to the three different levels? Or do you not see that that works hand in hand?
[00:42:47] Dr. Nadia: [00:42:47] Yes and no. I think depending on the person and what that is a model that looks like you can definitely do it. I think one of the mistakes I see people make though, as they try to do it all at the same time.
[00:43:00] And as you know, that if you don't have a large enough audience to sell a low ticket, cause that's low ticket is high volume. And if I only have 10 people who sell a $59 product to you, then guess what you use in terms of cashflow. And so I think it's also. If you're going to use that strategy, you need to understand when to use it.
[00:43:20] So for example, I had a client that when we started working together, you know, she had some revenue goals. So we shifted her business model. We did increase our prices and we got rid of everything. So she had one product, it was higher end. Um, and we sold that consistently for about a year. We only have one option for her, for people to buy.
[00:43:43] And she was still out there building, building, building, and then once we did that and she was like, okay, I'm ready to look at, you know, how to leverage my time when we did launch and start adding some lower tiers. We had a really ready audience, because there was a number of people that we talked to that weren't ready or could not afford that higher price point than when we rolled out with something that was more affordable.
[00:44:07] They jumped right on it. So that her first launch was a six-figure launch, but you know, people didn't see the time behind the strategy. And so I think it's important for people to understand. Yes, that can work. But when you're first getting started or you're looking to build an audience, it may not behoove you.
[00:44:23] It turns out, you know, what your cashflow needs to look like in order for your business to operate. You know, to start there, but it could definitely help because then that allows you to serve more people.
[00:44:45] Like, cause I always say I'm a terrible sales person, always like, and I always come on and be like, you know, I didn't do a very good job selling that. Like sometimes I joke like, if it, like you did in terms of like, you could spend that on Starbucks. So I'll talk about my $59 products and I'll go, I spend more than that on a bottle of gin.
[00:45:01] And that barely lasts the weekend. Like, you know what I mean?
[00:45:05] This is crazy. Why are you not buying this thing? And I'll say it in that jokey manner. Like, you know, but the other thing is when I do webinars, I'm going to do a bootcamp soon to launch again. I am really honest from the outset, like this will, at the end of this, this activity, this challenge, this webinar, this bootcamp, whatever it is, I have something to offer you.
[00:45:27] You don't have to take it. Like that, that offer is not going to take away from all the stuff we're going to do for the next five days or hour or whatever. So I do think that honesty of, you know, this is going to lead to sells. I think sometimes, well, we all know it is don't we, cause we've all got a sell, so just own it and be honest about it, I guess.
[00:45:48] Dr. Nadia: [00:45:48] And I think the other thing is people expect it and a lot of times people are wanting it. You know, I, it wasn't as my own event. So when I support clients, I got people who come like I came to this event, whatever it was, whether it was webinar, bootcamp, or three-day event or whatever, because I want to know if this is a good fit, because I'm interested in hiring this person and working with them further.
[00:46:08] And I think we overlook those people, you know, that they are there. I've done it. I went to an event from my current mentor. I went to her three-day event and I went solely for the purpose of seeing, is she going to be a good fit? How does this flow? Do I like her personality, her style so that I invest in her higher ticket program.
[00:46:26] Like I, that was not sole reason for going to that event. And so I think sometimes. We over with our own issues around sales. We overlooked it back when people really do want to work with us, they they've been checking us out and you know, they're coming to learn it. But like you said, just being upfront about it.
[00:46:43] Some of you, this is going to be a great fit and what we cover in this is going to be enough, but some of you, you know, you want more. And for you, I want to extend the opportunity for you to work with me. I would love that. So yeah.
[00:46:58] That just seems so much nice. Uh, you know, nicer and polite and, and just with ease, you know, it's, it's not like, you know, I've got a great offer for you. Cause that any last three seconds. So if they're not quick, you know, get it.
[00:47:18] Your life is probably just not going to be worth living. So just forget it, you'll end up on the streets, like seriously, visualize that visualize you on the streets. That's going to be you if you don't buy my product.
[00:47:28] Oh, my God, you should do like a total parody of like selling and how not to do it. Like that would just be hilarious, hilarious, hilarious. Nadia thank you so, so much for coming on the podcast and talking to us, it's been an absolute pleasure. I will link up to everything in the show notes, but where can they come and find you if our lovely listeners at wants to come and follow you?
[00:47:50] Dr. Nadia: [00:47:50] Oh, well, you can. Most social media I am at, I am Dr. Nadia, Dr. Nadia, my website is the Doyenneagency.com. So you can find this over there. And I do have a resource for those that are like, you know what? These conversations, I have a courageous conversations that convert checklists, that courageousconversationsthatconvert.com.
[00:48:20] Isn't it? Like how much do you load that over like doctor? I am a doctor. That's ACE.
[00:48:30] You should definitely like take that out a few times and I'd give it a spin. Like honestly, it's one of those things that you think. I'd probably just do it for the title. You know what I mean? It's a lot of work I can imagine, but, you know.
[00:48:45] So when I was done, I was like, I'm done. And my husband was looking at me like, dude, you're a doctor. So he told everyone. Like “My wife has her doctorate.” It took forever for me to like actually use the title.
[00:49:02] Nadia thank you so so much for joining me for this podcast. There we go. That was the lovely Dr. Nadia Brown. I hope you enjoy that episode. I will be back next week for a solo episode until then have an amazing week.