How to use PR to grow your business with Dina Behrman

Today’s episode of the podcast is an interview with Dina Behrman who is a PR (Public Relations) strategist, helping entrepreneurs who struggle to take their business to the next level. We talked all about what holds us back, why we get nervous to put ourselves out there, and how to actually go about getting featured and getting some publicity for your business.




  • When you start doing PR for your business, you will have more content to share on social media – it works hand in hand with your marketing.
  • When you are pitching to places, you can talk about your social media presence.
  • You CAN do PR as a solopreneur and small business owner.
  • You can either use an agency, or do your own PR.
  • You are helping a journalist out when you get in touch with them and share your tips for their readers.
  • You are going to help the people who read or listen to your piece too.
  • PR is very powerful for expert positioning because when you get featured, you have the association with recognisable and credible names – they are endorsing you.
  • PR is long-lasting, ever-green content – when you have an online article feature, it is there for people to find years later!
  • PR is amazing for getting in front of a new audience – make sure you are choosing places that your ideal clients will be.
  • PR is also great for connecting with your existing network when you share your excitement! Opportunities could follow.
  • Think about quick wins – where could you be featured that is quick and easy? This then helps when you are applying to bigger places as you already have some features.
  • Journalists don’t need you to be a perfect or professional writer – they just need the content from you! They have editors that will review your piece.
  • Twitter can be a really good place to connect with and engage with journalists.
  • You can cold pitch journalists, you don’t have to have relationships with them or lots of contacts.
  • You can find journalists by looking online or in magazines – do a bit of research.
  • Think about what you can give in terms of value to the journalists – look at the types of things they have previously published, what will be a good fit/popular for their audience?
  • Put together a media kit to sum up your highlights to apply for podcasts and digital publications.
  • Stretch your comfort zone slightly – you never know what opportunities could come up when you put yourself out there.
  • The worst thing that can happen is they say no or not reply.
  • Just because they said no once, doesn’t mean it’s a no forever – try again another time.
  • If you keep pitching, you will get featured! Make sure you are tailoring your pitches.
  • Once you start getting featured, you may find other journalists will then reach out to you.
  • Keep an eye on the hashtag #JournoRequest on Twitter to look out for opportunities alongside the proactive stuff – see if there is something that is relevant.
  • Leverage every feature/opportunity you get – it is a big deal – be proud!!




You don’t need to be really well-known or have a huge following to do PR in your business.




  • An introduction to Dina 03:54
  • PR and Marketing 05:29
  • Why you should consider PR 11:55
  • Potential barriers 18:04
  • Do you need to build relationships 23:48
  • How to pitch to journalists and stand out 25:32
  • What if they say no? 35:20
  • #JournoRequest 45:08








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Hello and welcome to this week's episode of the podcast. How are you doing? I'm getting into the swing of things. May I'm batching, and this is like the fourth one I've done. So I seem to be doing it a bit quicker and easier.


You need a bit, the always stumbles me is the beginning. I hate the beginning. I hate just like saying the same things every week and just like, Hey, how you doing? It really drives me crazy anyway, life as a broadcaster. So. We have a really good interview for you on a slightly different subject, which is cool.


But before I start talking about that, let me just remind you that if you caught last week's episode about bringing on a team, Jen, who I talked about in her course is available, but it closes this week. I think. So we'll put a link back in on the show notes, obviously, hopefully by the time you click it, it'll still be open, but it does close this week, I think.


Okay. So this week I'm interviewing the lovely Dean of Berman and Dina is a PR specialist. So. This is really interesting, cause we don't talk about PR very much and it kind of got me a bit excited in terms of like, actually, what if, what if I could get some PR what if I could get involved? And we had a really good conversation about it, about the stuff that kind of holds us back, why we wouldn't do it, why we get nervous?


Why, you know what, if we think we're terrible writers, how do we even go about it? And demon talks us all through that process in terms of. Just trying to get yourself out there, trying to get some quick wins, getting in like places and getting some publicity for your business. So Dina is a journalist turned PR strategist who works with entrepreneurs who struggled to take their business to the next level.


She helps them do their own PR. So she doesn't do PR for people anymore, but she helps them do their own PR. Leverage their media so they can share their story and help more people while gaining more followers, raising their prices and making more sales. You know, the thing about PR is like when you CPR and you see someone being featured, you can't help, but think.


They're really credible. So obviously depending on where they're being featured is a big thing. But for me, if I see someone being featured in Forbes, I'm like, why is this big deal? Like that is that's huge. So she worked as a publicist for. Many seven figure businesses and has helped hundreds of entrepreneurs learn how to do their own PR through her PA no too many PS PR power costs and PR masterminds.


She's also been featured as a PR expert. Here we go. In Forbes, entrepreneur Huffington post the guardian BBC radio amongst others. So she talks today about looking at doing. PR for your business, how it can work, even if you are a solo preneur, how you can get started. So I think this is going to be a great one for everyone.


Just to kind of like open your mind to like, Hmm. Maybe I might try that. So without further ado, here's one. I'm really excited today to welcome to the podcast. Dina, Berman, Dina, how are you?


Dina: I'm doing well. Thanks. I'm excited to be


Teresa: here. Good. I'm glad I'm excited to have you here and talk about the subject.


But before we get started with what we're going to talk about, I started the podcast into the same way as I always do, which I'm sure is does anything for my listeners, but how does who you are and how you got to do what you're doing today?


Dina: Yeah. So I'm Dana and I'm a PR strategist. I work with entrepreneurs to teach them how to do that PR so that they can get beaches in the press and how to leverage that media coverage to really grow their business.


So my background is in journalism. I started out as a journalist and I did that for about 10 years and I was working as a commissioning editor at a national newspaper supplement. And then I was freelance. Writing for lots of different publications and nice for most of their kind of, um, National UK newspapers, lots of magazines.


And I started my business. Initially. It was a side hustle I wanted to, uh, diversify. So I started doing PR and copywriting. Um, and then it was around 2015 and I'd had my oldest child and I kind of came back to work and I just. Kind of renewed sense of purpose. And I decided that where my passion really lay was actually teaching others how to do their own PR.


And so I have worked as a publicist myself as well. I've worked with a lot of, kind of, um, seven, um, emotive seven figure business owners to do their PR for them. But my passion is really in helping entrepreneurs learn how to do their own PR and to do it in a way that really positively impacts them and their business. Yeah,


Teresa: love it. Love it. So I was just saying before we got on that, I don't think we've had anybody talking about PR, which is interesting. Like obviously I come from old school marketing degree, worked in marketing all my life. Uh, marketing and PR were two very separate parts of a business weren't they just because they are two very different things and I found I'd be interested in see what you think that.


The world has moved on and marketing has changed and social media came and digital marketing that PR and marketing seem to become a lot closer in terms of where they're sat in a business.


Dina: Yes, definitely. I think like PR and marketing works so well together. So if you're someone who's like posting a lot on social media, then once you start doing PR it gives you content to share.


And like you, you have like this extra content that you can share on social media. But equally when you're pitching to different places, if you can say, you know, you've got an Instagram following or something like that, then that's really helpful when you're pitching. So I think they both feed into each other really well. Yeah.


Teresa: Yeah. I'm on, I'm really excited about this conversation because I, I do think that business owners. And solo business owners, think for one second that they can do PR I think that they think, and possibly I do as well, but either that you've got to have a PR agency helping you, or if you're not big and have a big story, then people aren't interested.


Dina: Yeah. Yeah. It's literally like, those are that sort of objections that I hear, like so often. Um, so, so many people will be like, I just want to outsource it all to a PR agency. And I get that because we're all so busy, like doing a million things, but honestly like a decent PR agency is usually going to be about five to 10K per month.


And if you're signing up for like a year long retainer, like that's a big expense, but not only that, when you get to the end of that year, you don't have any knowledge of how to do it yourself. So you either have to like sign up for another retainer or you're kind of left floundering. And so I have clients where even if they know that ultimately at a certain point, they want to outsource it.


It just makes it. So much sense for them to learn how to do it fast, just so they have that understanding of how it works and, you know, to be able to, uh, get started with PR yourself, you don't need to be super well-known or have a big following. And you honestly don't. You know, I've worked with entrepreneurs who are generally sole traders and, you know, across a whole different range of industries and you can get PR in so many different ways.


There are so many different major opportunities out there and you don't have to be, you know, you can get featured as an expert. You don't need to be. The leading expert, the topics like, cause people think, but you know, there's someone else doing what I do and they're more experienced, but actually like a journalist, this is the thing.


Journalists need experts to quote, journalists, need people to share their stories. They need case studies. They need content. And especially I think, because I've come from that, Dennis, but I know what it's like, like when you're on a tight deadline and yeah. Oh, my God. I need to speak to a relationship expert.


If only I had the relationship, I mean, I had like a marketing expert. You could like give me these clothes. You are actually helping a journalist out when you get in touch with them. And you're like, I can share tips with your readers on this, or I can share my story about this. Um, it's, it's helpful to them.


They, they need, you know, business owners that can, that can genuinely help. And I think. I don't know about you, but like so many people I speak to, they feel kind of funny about calling themselves an expert. I think that's something for female entrepreneurs. It's like a bit of imposter syndrome and actually like we're experts.


We know our staff, um, most of us have spent like, you know, we, we might have trained or we've spent years doing what we're doing. And like what, what experts, especially for journalists that don't know our subjects. And I


Teresa: think you're right. You said it before and I've read it in a book. Uh, did he still feel Thomas said it in one of her books?


We're not, we're not professing to be the only, and most expert voice. All we're doing is putting our, take our thoughts, our experience and knowledge into the group of conversation. We're not stating that we are right, and everyone else is wrong or because someone else has said something similar, it means we can't say it, but you're right.


And also you said something else that was really important there that we would often look at contacting anybody about us as a, uh, we're bothering them without necessarily thinking no, we're actually helping them actually providing a service and making that job in their life a little bit easier. And in my limited experience of PR, so obviously when I started my agency and having worked in lots of other models, Places where we did PR the truth of the matter was when we did PR we were helping the Mac because it was like, great.


Is that a great story we can use? I can just fill that space done. Brilliant. Yeah. Are you a, and for me, obviously, we worked with, we had a PR guy in the team who had really good relationships and they knew him and trusted him and knew that when he put a story in that it was worth doing and the same way he would say, I'm not gonna put it a story forward because it's not strong enough.


And if we start putting terrible stuff forward, then never going to post my stuff. So. So, yeah, I think thinking as it, as it from a, a helping point of view and you assisting them is so much nicer. And if that gives you the confidence, then that's the way you need to think about.


Dina: Wow. Yeah. I think it is literally, it's like a mindset shift of thinking, like going from thinking, oh my God, I'm going to be like bugging this Plaza and it's going to feel so awkward and I'm going to be like, Hey, write about me.


And if you literally come at it from it. Yeah. How can I help the Geminis out and also like thinking about the audience, like what's going to be really valuable for them. Like you could share like a really inspiring personal story and people are literally going to read that and feel motivated, inspired, or you're going to share like some really great tips and advice, and it's genuinely going to help the people that are reading or listening, whatever it is.


So I think it's, it starts with that kind of mindset shift. Yeah.


Teresa: Let's get back to basics a little bit. Let's talk about why first off, like I don't, I'm fairly sure I know the answer to this, but let's, let's have a chat about why would they even consider PR in the first place?


Dina: So I think that are so many benefits to PR and I.


Obviously I'm like evangelical, but PR I think all business owners should be doing. Yeah. But I think that you get something from PR that you don't necessarily get from other types of marketing. So I think it is really, really powerful for expert positioning. Um, and one of the reasons for that is when you get featured in a publication it's third party movement.


So you are having that association. Say you get featured in Forbes. So many of my clients like adjust. They just love to be featured in blogs and I've had lots of clients speak to them. Bob's, it's one of those places that comes up and it's such a recognizable brand. And so just by being associated with someone like Forbes or entrepreneur or business insider, Big recognizable names.


That's the party endorsement. It's like these publications are endorsing you and that's really, really powerful. So even just, you know, we talk about having like the, as seen in logos and it's literally the, the strip of logo is kind of on your website. It says as CNN, but that in itself is really, really powerful.


Expert positioning for you. It's a credibility boost because these publications are very credible. They're well-known they're well-recognized they're well-respected. Being associated with some of these publications can be really powerful for your expert positioning for positioning you as an authority in your field for boosting your credibility.


So that's one thing that you, you don't necessarily get like from other types of marketing. The other thing I love about PR is that it sticks around. So when you have an art school that comes out, that's online. It's there for people to find months, even years later. And I've had people get in touch with me where they found like something I wrote on like Huffington posts, like years ago, because they were searching for a particular topic and it came up and you get that kind of evergreen aspect to PR again that you don't necessarily get with.


Say, I dunno, like Twitter, where. So quick, I feel like electricity, just music quickly, or a lot of social media, it kind of hangs around for a couple of days. And then, you know, it's onto the next thing. And with PR is that for a long time for people to find, I think the other thing about PR the way that it works in terms of.


You know, being able to kind of grow your business, you can use it obviously to get in front of a new audience. So you have places like any of the sort of, you know, national newspapers, like I think the daily mail. That's circulation, something like a million readers per day. And then online is just crazy.


It's I need to check what the most recent figures it's in the mid, like tens of millions. I think it was like 52 million unique visitors a day because it's global as well. It's like big in America. It's big in Austria. So when you're looking at the numbers of people that you're guessing in front of, or somewhere like business insider, they have, I think it's 60 million unique visitors.


It's just like crazy numbers. So it's amazing for getting in front of a new audience and obviously like you, you want to be aligned. So you want to think what are the publications that it makes sense for you to go in? Like, Being one, you know, just cause it's got a big audience, but thinking, well, what your ideal client is going to be reading, and then you can get in front of these like really, really big audiences.


And that can be really powerful for things like building your email list, building your social media, following. I've had people that have doubled or tripled their email list on the back of one particular article, because it's going out to these really large audiences. So it's, it's really great for that.


The other thing that I think people don't always think about is it's amazing for deepening your connection and your engagement with your existing networks. So when you get featured in the press and you share that on Instagram, or you put it out to your email as well, Those people get really excited.


Like, you know, people get so excited, especially if you're excited about. Yeah. I find that when my clients are like posting and they're like, oh my God, I just think they should have this place. Like your father will love it. And I had a piece of it. In Forbes a little while back. And I had so many people from my existing networks suddenly DM-ing me suddenly getting into me, wanting to put calls and things like that.


They were already in my world. They could have reached out at any point, but that was the point where they were like, oh, okay, this is interesting. This woman's just being recording Forbes. And, um, I got like a paid speaking gig on the back of it. Like you get these opportunities suddenly appear, right? Yeah.


But it's not necessarily always from like new people. It's actually people that are already in your world and it kind of just really engages them. So I think that it's amazing for building the know like, and trust factor, which we all want to have with our followers. Um, and it's amazing for getting you in front of new audiences as well. Yeah, I love it. So


Teresa: many good reasons. And one thing that was interesting is when you said, obviously it's evergreen, it sticks around and it is funny cause you go onto websites and it says as featured then often I don't necessarily check. I mean, it takes someone with some pretty low morals to put that their feet did somewhere that they're not.


But also you don't ask when you don't. Well, that was three years ago. So that's not valid anymore. It's still like, I still use the fact that I've written for social media examiner as social media, only sites, because I did so then I don't say, oh, I did it last week. I did it a couple of years back, but the point is I did do it.


That's the thing that matters ready. So, okay. So one of the reasons I think, and as we talked about why people weren't going for it and people listening to this, like, I would love nothing more than to be featured in Forbes. Like honestly, business insider I'll have that to a hundred to, yes, please. Like all of them, there's a few things stopping me.


Imagine stop lots of other business owners. It's false hackathon and post and business insider. These are not small, like publications two. I wouldn't have the faintest idea where to start. And three, I don't think I'm particularly good writer. Now. I write all the time. You know, I write from my emails three times a week.


I wrote on social media, but I feel like, and I guess coming from a background in marketing yeah. Yeah. I was always one of those things where you have to have a particular style. So I always said for a long time, I don't write PR because I'm not a PR writer. So, because journalistic writing is so different from the kind of everyday writing.


So say, Hey, like, let's say I wants to go to Forbes or I wanted to be featured in Forbes. As a solo business out of that, what do you do?


Dina: So, um, yeah, it's really good point up there. So in terms of, you were saying like, you know, they're such big places, like how can you get into them? I mean, the thing is you, you can definitely build up to it and not in a kind of oh yeah.


Take a long time to do it, but just get featured in a couple of places first. And then you've got, cause there are always like what with my clients we have like the quick wins we look for, what are the quick wins? Where can we get featured kind of quickly and easily. And so if you can do that and then you've got.


Some it's almost like social proof to be able to show them, oh, here's a couple of things that I wrote for this place and this place. It makes you feel more confident as well. Cause you've already been featured somewhere and this works also not just for like writing, but, um, you know, things like, uh, radio interviews or podcasts interviews or anything, really, if you start with something or maybe like starting with local press and then going to national, for example.


So if you start with that, start with something, that's going to be a quicker, win, an easier. Um, it makes me feel a bit more confident. It gives you a bit more experience and then you also have something to show for yourself. So you can show like you like, oh, here's an interview I did on local radio. You can let you know, sort of, um, let them listen to it.


And the same with any articles that you've written, you can say, you know, here's a couple of things that I've written, so you can definitely build up to it still. Like I said, I don't want people to think that it has to take a long time. It doesn't, but just like do a few things fast and like build up to app.


And then it's really about with the writing thing you were saying, feeling, you know, not feeling like your, the best writer. I think. We can often be quite like harsh on ourselves and think that we're not doing a great job. And the fact that you're like putting content out there and putting these letters out there, like you can write, you know, and I think that sometimes it's a bit of a kind of mindset thing because.


Journalists don't need you to be a perfect writer. They're not hiring you actually as a journalist, it's just that you are kind of providing content for them. So I just had a piece that I wrote for entrepreneur magazine and they send you an email and then they say, oh, our editors working on this for you.


So they have editors that will work on them. It's part of the process and it doesn't mean that, you know, they don't like what you've done or anything, but they want to get it into the shape that they have in it. And they, um, also they Americanized, you know, a lot of what I've written and that's fine. They want to put it into that style and it wasn't, they do that with everyone.


It's like, that's part of the process. So. Publications we'll have an editor, they'll have an editing process, so you don't have to provide like perfect copy by any means. The other thing is sometimes there's ways to be featured where you're not having to write entire articles. So with something like Forbes, sometimes the journalist will actually.


Email you some questions though, do it. It will be an interview, but like on email. So they'll send your questions. I had this for piece of I did they send your questions on email and they, um, you, you sort of answered the questions on email and you're providing maybe. Your top five tips or something like that, but it's it, you know, you're breaking things down into like tips or bullet points.


This is the other thing. It doesn't have to be like essays when you're breaking it down into like your tips to a bullet points it's quite straightforward to do. So that's one thing, even if you're writing the article yourself, if you can break it down. It's it doesn't have to be like a stream of consciousness of that feels a lot less intimidating because you're just writing like your, your tits or your different little paragraphs and things.


But yeah, sometimes it might be that you do an interview on email and then for being in a newspaper or magazine. They would actually just interview you on the phone and then you'd have to write anything. So I have days. Um, but, um, but there's so many different ways that you can be featured. And so you don't have to be, they're not looking for like professional writers.


You don't have to be a professional writer. And they're very used to dealing with like business owners, um, and people who it's not their job to write, but if you've been like putting content out and things like that yeah. Probably you've got a really good grasp of writing anyway. Okay, cool. So how do you


Teresa: build the relationships and is it about relationship building or how do you, like, how would I even find a journalist from Forbes that might need something for


Dina: them?


So I think that like, you know, one hand it can help to sort of buildup relationships and a lot of journalists are on Twitter and that can be a really good place to kind of connect with them and just engage with them a bit and get to know them and get on their radar. Um, but equally. You can cold pitch journalists and you don't have to have the relationship that like it's because a lot of people think, well, it's fine.


If you've got all the contacts, but you can, you can send cold pitches and you know, I've done that. And my clients do that and it does work. So for finding journalists, A lot of it is like doing that research and searching for people online and lots of journalists. You're going to find them, like, if you're looking for magazine journalists, you can look within the copy of the magazine and they're going to have a lot of them.


Right. It's kind of listed in there, or if it's an online publication or digital publication, a lot of them are going to be listed online. And so yeah, most journalists details, you know, there's ways you can kind of, you can find them by doing a bit of digging, doing a bit of research. Um, Definitely you can, you can cold pitch journalists and they're used to that and they're open to that.


And this is where you need to be saying, well, what can I offer them a value? And what's going to make them want to talk to me and engage with me, but you don't, you don't have to know the job it's beforehand. Okay,


Teresa: cool. So let's say I've done my research. I find the journalists. You said that they're very used to getting cold pitched, which is quite nice to hear actually, because that is a scary prospect for anybody, but what's going to make me and anybody else doing it standard because if they're used to it, they're getting it a lot.


So how on earth do you pitch them? That goes, Hey, look, you really do want to pay


Dina: attention. Yeah. So I think kind of thinking about. Uh, like I say, what can you offer them? That's gonna, that they're going to perceive to be valuable. So looking at, you know, the types of things that they're publishing and thinking, what can you offer them?


It's going to be a pretty good fit for that publication and looking at. Maybe the types of topics that are quite popular. Is there a topic that lots of people are talking about or that's a bit of a trend or a bit of a talking point thinking about things like that, what's going to be popular or interesting for their readers for that audience.


And kind of thinking about the people that are actually going to be like reading or listening to this. Like, what's going to be good for that.


Teresa: Yeah. And I think from a podcast point of view, that's what I look for. I look for, do you understand who I serve? Do you understand the content I've done and therefore, is this a good fit?


Because I have people pitch me and I said before the podcast. I probably get easily one a day, if not more now. And some of them, you and I read them all, you know, and it takes time. This is time out of my world. So make sure you know who I'm looking at. And some of them I look at and I'm like, you have absolutely not look at who I am or what we talk about.


You know, your, your pitching, some, you know, thinking about manufacturing, marketing, and it's like, no, that's not a, obviously I do not do that. I think that's a really good point. I think swayed by, you said before by, um, you know, everyone listening to this as they can. All right. Trees, you can literally just like planning out your own PR strategy here.


I'm hoping you all, you see, I've asked to write questions. I happened to turn up in Forbes in a few month’s time, we were going to get benefits out of this podcast. You know what I mean? Can you dig me? So, so you talked about the fact of like, obviously giving them in some examples of where you've been in other places. Hey, like one thing that I don't use enough and, and funnily enough, I'm doing some pitching on some podcasts for me at the moment and some big podcasts, which would be amazing.


And the one thing that the person helping me is like, you need to talk about the fact that you, a TEDx speaker, you don't speak about it. And like how much does that other stuff come into it? The fact that, you know, you've spoken certain places you've featured on different podcasts. You is that all towards the kind of credibility that actually.


Dina: Yeah, definitely. And I, again, I think the things like the Ted talks, it, the PR and things like Ted talks, it feeds into each other. So if you are, um, I've had clients that after they, like, after I've worked with them, they've been featured in a few places they've gone on to do Ted talks. So I think it can be helpful if you're applying to do something like a Ted talk to be able to say, I think feature X.


Why is that? And then it works the other way. Once you've done your Ted talk, you can use that. Um, when you're pitching to places, because it that's such a, you know, a, a credible, again, it's a credibility booster. It's and I think that positions you as an expert. So yeah, it works the other way as well. That helps you when you are pitching.


Just to show that you're an expert and that you are a credible person. Definitely. Cool. What about like some


Teresa: unique ways? So one thing I've talked to all audience, my listeners, my members before is about like standing eight in different ways. So for instance, I get asked all the time, how I got Amy Porterfield and pat Flynn is my first two interviews because


Dina: these guys are flipping massive


Teresa: thing.


I said, well, that was extreme. I took them for a coffee. I flew literally the other side of the earth to then take them for a coffee. And they offered, which was amazing. But from that point on, I then did video DMS to different people. And it's really hard to say no to someone's smiley face when they're looking at you, even though it's on a video.


Yeah. Things like videos, things like I get lots of one sheets, which to be honest, they're a bit double most of the time say mines, like, um, the one I have personally that I said that is really beautiful because you know, it's part of my brand and I've got my speaker page on my website. Like how much would you recommend them?


If they're going to do that, that, you know, maybe just putting together a word document with just that the, how he likes seeing how much better is it to go to that extra effort. Maybe get something designed, maybe put a video in there, maybe do a personal DM. Are they going to stand out or are they going to just not think it's going to make too much of a difference?


Because it is a traditional and more traditional kind of platform, isn't it? You know, whereas I was pitching to people who use social media, so videos work really well. So yeah, just thought, yeah,


Dina: I love that. That you kind of did that for the podcast. And I think that video messages for podcast hosts work really well.


So I definitely recommend that podcast. Um, yeah, nothing. Your one sheet or a media kit. Essentially the same thing and just making it look Christy, like you can do that, you know, just make it look nice and professional. That's definitely good for cars maybe for, um, like. There's a lot of digital publications run by entrepreneurs kind of online magazines.


So again, because they use the online space and social media, I think it would probably work something like that as well, to be able to send Ru um, a one sheet or a media kit, um, um, potentially do a video as well. I think full pitching, like newspapers and magazines. In general, just the straightforward kind of email pitch test work.


I think because journalists say on a newspaper or a magazine, something like that, they are receiving lots of pictures and I suppose they it's easier for them to kind of scan through an email and know what I guess saying rather than having to click. Yeah. Video and kind of wait and say, obviously if you're doing anything, like pitching the TV or anything like that, then having lights the show, right.


When you've got examples, especially if you've done like speaking gigs, even if you haven't done any kind of specific, you know, video work or, you know, you haven't done TV before, but just to be able to have like an example of the speaking, that's really helpful. So having like a little show rule put together can be good.


Um, if you are pitching TV, but yeah, I think with the video. It's really great and more so they're kind of online stuff in that cost and then the more traditional media. Probably


Teresa: the most. Yeah. Yeah. And you know what? I didn't even think about TV. I'd love to be able to speak. I like to know what's really funny.


Right. Ever since COVID hit and all these people were being interviewed in their homes. I was looking at them like, Well, he's that set?


You know, I have this stuff up all the time because I work and do an online business. Like, I couldn't imagine what I'd have to do if I was going to be on TV. Like


Dina: that was the thing. Do it. And I think that it opens up the playing field in a way, because it made it not just people that could get down to the London studio or whatever.


It's like anyone could like dial in on zoom. And so, um, yeah, absolutely. It makes you realize that like, like to say, you're so used to kind of doing software zoom and being online, like. Uh, going to be more prepared for doing an interview for TV than someone else who may be an expert at what they do, but they haven't had that kind of zoom experience. Yeah. And so


Teresa: again, pitching's TV similar thing, is it like, you know, obviously speaker reels and speaking and that sort of thing. And I guess the other thing that I want to say at this point is like, Some of you might be sat there. Like, are you actually kidding? Not kidding. How's chance. Am I going to go on TV or am I going to go on a podcast?


And that's absolutely fine. Like you pick and I'm sure your degree doing the, like pick the thing that is the


Dina: most comfortable for you. Yeah. I mean, I think. Stretching your comfort zone is good because I think everyone feels a bit nervous. And so, um, but if it's kind of like, it's gonna make you be sick kind of thing, and you just hate the idea then like, no, don't do it.


But I think also that's the beauty about like, there's so many different types of media and you really can choose what works view and, um, Kind of, like you were saying before about the writing thing and thinking you may be like underplaying the fact that you probably are like a decent mice or is it like, maybe like sometimes I have clients who are dyslexic, they can say they would maybe get someone either to, um, you know, proofread their article or edit and ask when you can definitely do that.


Or maybe just focus more on. During speaking things and podcasts. So you don't have to write because actually writing feels like a massive chore. Um, but equally, if you ask someone that doesn't want to be speaking or definitely doesn't want to go on screen, you don't have to do that. There's so many other ways to get features.


So I think, yeah, like stretching your comfort zone is good and it's good to develop it. Uh, but don't do it if it's like, you know, if you don't want to, you get to choose, you know, where


Teresa: you want to pay it. Yeah. We today, um, a challenge in the academy, we do a challenge every single every other month, because one thing that online stuff is, you know, Online stuff is brilliant, but you need to take action.


And that is what I meant totally about. And we just did this challenge, obviously by the time this episode comes out, it would have been some time ago, but we've just done this challenge called the get seen challenge. And it was all about getting in front of people and other people's audiences and the task on day.


Five. So the biggest tasks they have to do, and I always, the last task is always go big or go home. So they had to pitch to put themselves on a podcast, um, on a stage or a featured article, like a guest blog or something. And my objective with them wasn't necessarily to get them featured. My objective was for them to get over the fear of actually doing it.


If we get a note, you still won like a hundred percent well done. You've put yourself out there because I think so often when, as you said, right at the beginning, it's a mindset thing. So often we're like, we're not the expert. We can't do this. We can't. If someone says, no, that's a direct reflect on me and my quality and therefore.


I don't want to get that now. Well, there's a million reasons why someone might say no to an article or to you featuring somewhere, but the whole thing was you've at least just got to ask and put yourself out there. And some of the results were phenomenal. Like the fact that they asked and then they came back and went, yeah, that'd be great.


Thanks. Like, and they were blown away. They didn't think for one second, they were going to say yes, they would never have the guts to do it. And I think, you know, if you're listening to this at all, it's like, Try like literally what's the worst they can say. No. Yeah, yeah,


Dina: absolutely. Yeah. I love that. I love that.


Kind of like you say, like just doing it in itself, just sending the email in itself is a win like that success. And I think that's amazing. I mean that, they're it Paul of doing PR is going to be, I don't want to say being rejected. It like the word rejected, but it's going to be that you're sometimes going to.


Uh, no. Or you might just get no Revit is happens. Like you send something out and you get no reply and you know, it's part of it. And like you say, there are so many reasons it's like they might have just run something similar or they, they have just like filled up all of their pages for the magazine or, you know, there's just so many reasons.


And, uh, There's always something else to pitch. You can always get, I can pick something else. And that's the other thing, isn't.


Teresa: it great point that you made that just because they said no once doesn't mean. It's a no forever. So we can like, you know, I tell the story about when I asked Seth Godin's come on the podcast and the most Bernie brain, like Renee brain, she interviewed this woman and I page that, I was like, can you come on my podcast, please?


I think you'd be amazing. And I tried to stand out. I did something a bit funny. Being quirky and, you know, just, just like thought I know this is the biggest stretch in my life, so I'm just, I've got nothing to lose, but they came back and said, no, she's very busy writing a new book. So I went back and said, that's cool.


When would be a good time to come and ask again. And they were like, just try again in a few month’s time, I'm like, bring it. And I will. And persistency pays, you know? So even if you've had a net, no. Like, unless they're gone. No, you are particularly not good for this, or you're never going to get a yes.


Dina: But then, like you said, there's lots


Teresa: of reasons why they've said no that time and they might not say no again.


And the fact that they know you exist now. Whereas for me as much as if like, so when I go back to Seth Goden again, when he's got a book to launch and you want to talk to me, you know, I'll get back to them. Do you remember me? Like,


Dina: you know, the facts. They and when a journalist has sat there going who've we


Teresa: got, but as a mum who works in social media that you know, happened to start a business in a terrible way.


Oh, it wasn't that, that woman who, you know, you just don't know D so. Is it, I often say things are a numbers game, so my, and it comes back to this taking action again. Right. So when I talk about goal setting and when we do goal setting, we do a call to the goal set thing. And the membership, when we do the goal setting thing, I get them to set that goal.


I E I want to be featured on 10 podcasts in the next quarter, but then I get them set the action goal. Right? So the action would be, I'm going to ask five podcasts each month. If I can go on that, that podcast. Okay. And when we look at the end of the quarter and we go, did you achieve what you wanted? We don't look at the goal.


We look at the action. Did you reach out to five podcasts? Whether you got the actual interviews is another matter. I mean, if you didn't get any, then we. How are you pitching and who are you pitching to? But


Dina: is it,


Teresa: like I said, what I would call it a numbers game? Is it a case of right. I could sit here today and write three different articles based on three different things that I can talk about.


Hey, you know, being a mum in business, starting a business in a terrible way, social media mindset, whatever it is. That I'm good at if I read three articles, is it just a case of rate? I'm going to send those three articles to this publication, this publication, this publication, this month, next month, I'm going to select three articles as long as they fit with them to this one, to this one, to this one, is it just a numbers game?


Dina: Yeah. Yeah. Like to a certain extent, it is a numbers game, because like I said, there are going to be the instances where for whatever reason, and it might be something that's out of your control like that just, you know, they're, they're too fast scheduled in advance. So they're just not taking anything at the moment or they've just run something very similar or whatever.


Or it may be something that you are in control of. Like you've just slightly missed the mark with your, with your pitch. And so you can kind of go back and pitch something else. So, um, yeah, to a certain extent it's about, like you say, taking the action. Yeah. Reaching out to enough people. Um, and then the, uh, the only thing I would say about that is sometimes, um, you'll get people that will say, write a press release and they'll blast out to like a thousand journalists or something like that.


And I really don't recommend doing that. I recommend taking a really tailored approach. So yes, it's a numbers game, but as long as you're being strategic about it and being, um, kind of tainted with it and, um, you know, if you're doing like a kind of bespoke. Um, approach for each place that you're getting in touch with.


And, um, you can. Definitely have common themes. And so you can be pitching similar themes to different places, but you're just sort of changing up a bit and tweaking it a bit then. Yeah. Like if you, if you go through the process and you pitch people and you keep it, like you will get featured, you just, well, um, if you, if you just keep doing it and, uh, yeah, as long as, like I say, you're, you're sort of, um, you are kind of tailoring your approach and not just like bombarding a load of people.


Um, and you will get featured in it and it, and it will happen. And what also tends to happen when I'm working with clients is that you start to build up momentum once you've been featured in a few places. And so one of my clients was featured in, um, In a newspaper. And then she had a journalist reach out to her that had seen that article and was like, oh, I want to do a piece with you for this Sunday supplement because I saw, you know, your article on this.


And so you'll find that. Yeah. So getting featured journalists then reach out to you, um, which is a really nice position to be in. And so that momentum really starts to build. And the other thing that can happen is you have particular articles that really, um, you have this like snowball effect. Um, and so sometimes I've had clients where their articles have gone viral and they've been, uh, you know, their story.


Sort of in multiple different countries around the world or one client, she had a piece in a national newspaper that was really guessing a lot of attention. And that got picked up by other journalists who saw it and wanted to interview her. And then it got picked up by journalists and other countries.


You got invited on to a big radio show. Um, and it was this one story, this one piece, and it just kind of snowballed. And she ended up in like, um, Japanese cosmopolitan and it was just like very far and wide. And she made a lot of sales from that as well. She she's a business coach. She signed up a lot of clients off the back of that.


And you never know kind of which particular piece is going to, you know, be the one that, that really gets that momentum. The more that you can get consistent major coverage. So the more that you just keep going, just keep sending out pictures, you will get featured if you just keep doing it. And then the more that you are featured, you get into that position where Jan has come to you and it all just builds on itself.


Um, and then you've got more logos to share, you know, and you can put them onto your sales page and everything, and yeah, it, it really builds up. And it's something that you, you know, you want to be doing on a consistent basis. And it just leads to more opportunities. It's like it leads to more press, but it leads to other things that can lead to speaking gigs.


You can, you know, I have clients who, they got their own major show. They have their own sort of things like that. And it all builds up. Yeah, like you say, you've, you've got to just be like taking the action and just keep doing that and keep doing it. Yeah. I


Teresa: love it. I love it. So good. Okay. One final question then previous to having this discussion with you, when I.


Speaking of different places, sometimes PR people have spoken. And one of the things they talk about is journo request on Twitter is that journalists will sometimes put a request on Twitter using the hashtag. Jen, I request this some more isn't that? Is there other ones?


Dina: Yeah. I mean, that's the main one and it's really worthwhile keeping an eye on it.


And that's where your, um, you want to be doing proactive pitching. You really want to be pitching the places that are aligned for you and the places that fit with your ideal client. So you want to be doing that pitching, but when you're. Using something like general costs. You're also being reactive as well.


And so we'd never just rely on that, but if you can do that alongside the proactive stuff is it's really valuable because it's extra major opportunities. And if you've ever seen it before, they literally ranged from the sublime to the ridiculous, you'll get kind of some really out there requests and it would be like, Did you have an affair with your husband's brother or something like that?


And it's kind of like, not sure if he going to be there's some really good stuff in there. So it is about kind of looking for it and seeing what's coming up and seeing, is there something that's relevant? Um, that would be the main one you do that people will kind of like PR requests, but journal requests is the main one that I would


Teresa: recommend.


It's you've got to have the practice because the problem with it, when I looked at it is one, they get lots of responses. So again, you're trying to stand out in front of lots of other people doing the same thing or asking the same thing too. You've got to keep an eye on it. Like this moves at the speed of light, doesn't it?


You know, so I think I haven't looked for a really long time and you just inspired me to go and look again, but like, you know, it almost needs to be, if you are serious about PR and wanting to do it almost needs may be like, you know, everyday part, your morning routine, your let's take 10 minutes and just scroll down and go.


Nope. Nothing for me. Thanks. Yeah, because I was featured in a book once because of I requests because they were looking for. I think it was the mum business owner, no. Went from like, you took your skill and start doing business with or something like that. But anyway, um, and I probably didn't do enough with it at the time because that's the other point.


Isn't it. Once you've got this PR once you've got this publicity it's then about. Exploiting it, I hate that word because it sounds like it's a bad thing. Um, but we like


Dina: to say leverage, leverage. That's


Teresa: I'm going to use that. Um, but yeah, it's about sharing it on social, having conversations about it. Like my TEDx talk is in my scheduler and goes out every year.


That's me. God knows how many weeks, because it's like, yeah, I did the TEDx talk. I'm going to keep talking about it. So yeah, it has to be this kind of, you know, it's not like just, um, great shelf up, move on to the next thing. It's like, okay, what can we do about that? How can we share it? I can, we have conversations about it and, and really put it out. Yeah.


Dina: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you want to like capitalize on every piece of coverage that you get, because it's a major thing, like you say, with the Ted talk, when you get featured in the press, it's a big deal. And so you definitely need to be doing stuff with it afterwards and leveraging it as much as you can.


And yeah. Summarizing each of those opportunities and being proud of it as well. Like it's, you know, every time you get featured, it's, it's an amazing thing. And it's, it's always going to be doing something positive for your business because people always want to know, like, what's the return on investment.


And, you know, you may get loads of new followers or new subscribers, or you may get direct sales. The piece of media coverage, um, whatever it is, it's, it's going to do something positive for your business. And the more that you get the better, because then you do build up that momentum and you do get into that position where sort of stuff starts coming to you.


Um, and so, yeah, you want to celebrate like every piece of media coverage. And I think that when you're sharing it with your followers, like they pick up on that excitement when you're kind of sharing something. Oh, my God. I just got beached in this place. And you know, I would love if you could like, have a read and let me know what you think.


Like people get really excited.


Teresa: Yeah. I love it. I love it. Dina. Thank you so, so much, it's been so helpful having you on and talking about this. I do think there is a great opportunity for people that maybe they didn't realize before. And even if it's a. You know, we're going to do one pitcher months and that takes you an hour or two in your month.


Then I think that's probably worth just, just doing and putting yourself out there. Cause you just don't know D so yeah, Dina awaken my audience I'll link it to, I was going to this, but where can they come and find you?


Dina: Um, so my website is Dean of and I've got a couple of free PR resources on there.


There's a PR calendar to help you with your pitching ideas. And there's a free pitch, the press miles to class on there as well. Um, and yeah, I'm across social media, um, at


Teresa: perfect. Thank you so much, Dina. It's been a pleasure to have you on


Dina: thank you so much for having


Teresa: me. So has that made you hungry for press? Are you going to go and stalk your journalists? Um, different places to go and talk to them and try and get publicized? It did with me, I was quite excited about it and I was going to check out stuff and I didn't. So I'm going to do that. Actually, once I finished recording this. It is good. It's like the other people's audience thing.


I've talked about it before, but it's a really good place to grow your audience. It gets seen where you're put in front of other people's audiences and PR is a great way to do that. Okay. I will leave you to it. Uh, if you enjoyed this episode, then please let us know. I'd love to know that I love hearing from you.


Uh, otherwise it's just a bit lonely sat in my office talking to myself, so yeah, please let me know what you thought and I will see you next time.