Today’s episode of the podcast is an interview with Melitta Campbell who is a business coach with over 25 years of marketing and entrepreneurial experience. Melitta helps women confidently build and grow a profitable business that gives fulfillment and flexibility. We talk all about niching – why it is important to have one, how soon you should niche and how you can get clear on what you offer to your target customers/clients.
KEY TAKEAWAYS COVERED IN THE PODCAST
- Niching is getting more specific about who you help and the impact you can have.
- Take a step back – look at your vision, values and what is important to you in order to build this into your business. Do this for your clients too – this is where you can start to build your marketing and messages.
- Selling to your target audience should just feel like the natural next step. You understand them – you are on the mission with them.
- You need to know who your target customer is so you can really speak to them in your marketing.
- What are your target audience trying to achieve? What is standing in their way? What challenges are they facing?
- You can market to their challenges – shows you have insight and understanding.
- What are your clients going to get after working with you?
- Imagine your client on a Friday night after a tipple or two – what are they fed up of or venting about? Start there!
- Ask your clients “If I could wave a magic wand what would we do” – this will help you to understand where they want to be.
- Understand the conversation going on in your clients mind and join that conversation.
- You need to communicate clearly how you are going to help them and make their vision possible.
- If you start your business by working with everyone, you will be working way too hard for way too little results and not get anywhere so you should start with some sort of niche.
- Where you start is never where you will end up – it will evolve over time.
- Start broad then get narrower – Start, learn, grow, evolve.
- People want connection, they want to be understood.
THE ONE THING YOU NEED TO REMEMBER ABOVE ALL ELSE…
A niche doesn’t necessarily mean you only serve a very small amount of people, it can be about being your authentic/relatable self and attracting your own tribe.
HIGHLIGHTS YOU SIMPLY CAN’T MISS
- An introduction to Melitta 07:08
- Being a woman in business 10:43
- What is a niche and why do you need one? 18:43
- Finding your niche 23:04
- How to start understanding your target audience 30:10
- When should you niche? 38:04
CHECK MELITTA OUT:
RESOURCES MENTIONED
Drop me a dm and let me know if you would be interested in the half day planning session
Transcript:
Hello and welcome to today’s episode of the podcast. How are you doing? So I just looked at when this is airing. Cause as you know, I batch and I did a couple of weeks back quite a few weeks back and by the time this comes out, I did a whole week focusing on batching and what was good and what was bad.
And I talked about one of the things that is quite difficult is, well, first of you really have to know what’s happening in your business and planning ahead and second off, sometimes you can feel a little bit disjointed from what’s come out live at the time, because obviously I’m recording this. I’m actually recording this on the 18th of October.
And according to my plan, this is coming out on the 15th of November. So. Like, yeah, there’s really. There’s good and bads of batching, and that’s one of the things I can feel a little bit disjointed from my content. Anyway. So as you’re listening to this it’s November, which feels a little bit scary because that’s 2021 nearly over which in some ways we will be very pleased about.
And in another way, it’s just, wow another year’s gone by, which makes me feel terribly old, but that is a thing, I guess now I am early forties. So there, those are words that I would be saying, and maybe I do say old things now, so it’s a thing. Anyway. I would like to ask you a favor. I am thinking about doing a kind of half day online.
I don’t know about you but I am tired to the online thing, but there are lots of advantages. One, you are listening to this from wherever in the world, and it can be open to you. Two, it’s like a lot less logistical stuff. And three it’s a lot cheaper. I’m running an online, I’m running an in-person event at the beginning of December, which I’m very excited about and it’s super luxury.
Super high-end. It’s really nice. In fact, that reminds me, I was listening to podcasts the other day. And in fact, she’s coming on this podcast and she talked about the fact that she was Chanel, not Target. Now, obviously if you’re American, you will know those references. Well, if you’re UK British now, and you might probably know Target, and I just thought, you know what, that’s me like when I think about my values and my brand values and what I offer to my audience.
I offered them the nicest stuff and the best stuff and the highest quality stuff. And that’s my aim that me and my brands, I shall now not target. Anyway, that was a side. So the favor I have to ask of you is I’m thinking about doing this half day online, I wouldn’t say in person again, then session around planning your 2022.
I know lots of people jump on this thing and it’s a thing. And you know, there are lots of options out there to do planning sessions. However, this is something I do all the time and this is something I do in the academy, in my membership. And I was just wondering if I was to put something on externally, would you fancy that?
Would you come along? Is it something you’re interested in? So if you can drop me a DM or an email or carry a pigeon fax. Those might not arrive in time, but if you can drop me some kind of communication and let me know whether you fancy this idea, then we could always do like a half day planning session, which, like I said, we do SOAR and it’s a lot around that and they love it.
And we do things like we reviewed the year before we do some mindset stuff. We make a plan, we do some like strategy stuff. So it’s cool. It’s really cool. Anyway, let me know if you like it or like the idea of it.
Anyway on today’s podcast today, I am interviewing Melitta Campbell. And Melitta is a business coach who uses her 25+ years of marketing and entrepreneurial, that’s such a hard word to say, entrepreneurial experience to help women confidently build and grow profitable business that gives fulfillment and flexibility. She’s the host of the Driven Female Entrepreneur Podcast. And a best-selling author and international speaker, she’s originally from the UK and now lives in Switzerland and works with women from around the world.
The reason Melitta came onto the podcast is because I wanted her to talk about niching. Now when I booked her on and sent her, her thing to say, I’d like to talk about this because I don’t know if you know the process of the podcast people applied to come on the podcast, the application form says what can you offer my audience?
What can you talk to them about? And one of the things on her list was niching. And I was like, do you know what we haven’t had people talk about niching very much, in fact, at all, really. And therefore it would be good to have that focus on today’s episode. Anyway. So I said to her I went niching and I was really interested in it because I’ve always said, or for a long time, I said, I don’t have a niche.
Now I realize I do have a niche it’s to do with me, my personality and what people can expect from me and the type of people I attract. Anyway, I discovered this a little while back, but so while I wasn’t sure what Melitta was going to talk about and what I was really pleased about was she talked about the fact of the niche isn’t necessarily about, oh, I only worked with farmers age 26 and above that lower than 34. Like she didn’t talk about that as a niche or I only work with social media managers, or I only work with coaches who deal with this particular thing. She talked about the niche being around your values.
And I really liked it. She gave me lots of great takeaways and I think you’re really going to enjoy today’s episode, especially if you’re trying to get clear on what you offer to your particular customers. Okay. I will leave you to the episode with Melitta. Here you go.
Teresa: So it is my pleasure today to welcome to the podcast Melitta Campbell. Melitta welcome to the podcast. How you doing?
Melitta: Yeah, I’m great. Thanks.
Teresa: Yeah, it’s good. I’ve just realized your surname is Campbell and what some people may or may not know is that’s actually my surname. When I started my business. Well, I was still married to my ex-husband and this Heath-Wareing was my surname.
Teresa: And now I’m married to my new husband who is lovely. Our surname is Campbell, but of course I had to stick with my existing name because you typed it into Google and you find me anywhere. So yeah, he finds it very frustrating that no one uses my actual surnames so yeah we share the same name.
Melitta: Yeah so we could be cousins. And some former.
Teresa: At be we are related, you know, what is it 12 degrees of separation or something. That’d be something in it. Anyway, we didn’t get you to talk about it. We always start the same way by you introducing yourself to my audience. Please let them know who you are and how you got to do what you’re doing today.
Melitta: Thanks uh, Teresa. So I’m, Melitta Campbell as you introduced, and I’m a business coach. I’m originally from the UK, as you can tell from my accent that today I live in Switzerland with my, my husband and daughters and life is quite different. So I never really saw myself as being a business owner. I worked in corporate in, in marketing communications, but then I moved to Switzerland and I did have a job when I moved here first.
Melitta: But when I had children, I suddenly realized, oh, you know, there’s, there’s no part time working. There was, I had no support network. I didn’t have any family nearby. So it was either be a full-time mom or try and do something for myself as well. And so I still that as being a nice way to keep my hand in.
Melitta: Cause if I’m honest, when I very first started, I fully expected that one day I would be going back into the business into a corporate role full time, but it’s, so it just started as a little part-time thing just to keep my brain from going, not going to mummy and mushy in the process, but actually I loved it.
Melitta: And I had such a great time as started as communication consultant for large businesses. That was something that was quite easy for me to do. And they had a network in that area. So it was, it was kind of the most logical first step where there with a five month old baby and I was kind of quite swamped.
Melitta: So I didn’t want to do anything too pushing outside too far out of my comfort zone. What I really wanted to be doing however was continuing the work I’d been doing in my corporate career when I reached senior management and they wanted to use that as an opportunity to inspire more women, to create their own career path.
Melitta: So I started a women’s network there working in Switzerland in private banking was a little bit like. Well, I saw my father’s office being like in London, in the seventies. So there was a lot of scopes or a lot more diversity and I loved that work. So that was always in the back of my mind. And so I built the communication consultancy.
Melitta: It was going great, but it was, it was just lacking something, you know, it was bringing in income, but it wasn’t fulfilling me personally. And so I started to do networking and I was trying to find other business owners. And when I found them, particularly the other women, they were really struggling to communicate their value and build a business that was a business and not an expensive hobby and bit by bit when I explained my background and what I’d been doing, then women started to ask me, ‘Well, could you help me build my business?’
Melitta: And for a long time I said ‘No. I couldn’t do that.’ And then they’d be like, please. Well, over one woman was like, ‘But you’re the only one that can help me.’ And was I, ‘Okay, well, let me look into this.’ And I saw that what was missing was women often had some kind of plan that they maybe worked on with their husband, but it wasn’t a plan and a goal and a vision that they really believed in.
Melitta: And so they weren’t taking those consistent steps with enough intention to make a difference. They were really struggling to communicate their value. And part of the reason of that was because they just saw themselves as being able to help everyone. And of course that makes it really, really difficult to stand out and communicate what you do.
Melitta: And the third part was that they didn’t have the right mindset. They weren’t really putting processes in place. They weren’t expecting their time. And so those were three key things. I thought that’s exactly what I can help them with. So I created my dream clients blueprint to really help them in those three areas.
Melitta: And that was, I launched that four years ago now. And it’s been amazing ever since. So that’s how I got to where I am today.
Teresa: Yeah, that’s so awesome. Was it always a case of you wanted to work just as women or was it that you resonated all, you find it more enjoyable? or those more of a need there. What was the kind of driver behind it?
Melitta: Great question. So I do work with a handful of men, but what I saw from the women’s network that I ran for the bank was that when women learn so well from other women. And when you can create a positive network and a positive kind of group of women together who just really work together to support each other, then anything becomes possible.
Melitta: And so I really wanted to recreate that. So my dream clients blueprint is a small group business program and that I restrict to about maximum 12 women at a time so that we really have that nice community in there and everyone inspires and encourages each other. And they learn so much from each other alongside the program and my coaching as well.
Melitta: It’s really a wonderful experience. But on a one-to-one basis, I do work with men as well because they have exactly the same problems. There isn’t really anything different. And yeah, even now often that the men are the ones that are working flexibly around the kids as well. So there’s not even the family pressure necessarily.
Melitta: Uh, but I, I felt for the group keeping that as female only was important. And also in this area, I said, there is no part-time working. And so a lot of women are struggling to find work, particularly I live abroad and there’s a big ex-part network here. And so a lot of the women, they don’t know the language, they don’t have a local network.
Melitta: They don’t know how to even begin finding a job where they can use their talents in a way that they want to. So starting a businesses is a perfect opportunity for them to, to continue. And that’s very much echoes my own experience. So it’s that, that was really my motivation behind setting the group up just for women.
Teresa: You know, it’s interesting. When I first started my, on my own business, I had to come from corporate. I come from very male orientated roles. So, you know, the car industry where I was literally the only female. I was in banking a very long time ago. And again, very heavy male. When I remember there was like a couple of women only networking.
Teresa: And I remember being almost quite anti women only networking. And I miss them a little bit like. Well, if you can’t work with men, then you’ve literally harmed you, you know, 50% of your tent type thing.
Melitta: But the team. Because I worked in IT, I worked in a property. I worked in real estate, same thing, isn’t it. I worked in shipping and Marine engineering really male dominated, and I was just the same. I really avoided women’s networks for a long time because I was like ‘I, I don’t feel held back by being a woman.’ And they never had been. I had amazing mentors who were men and really, really supportive. So, but it was only when I came here where I saw that women had been told one time too many, ‘You can’t do that, you’re a girl.’ And they’d started to believe it. And there was a real problem here. And there so the first time I thought. I, kind of felt immune to it because that wasn’t my experience. That wasn’t my belief system. So I could, I felt that it was something that I could gift that the other women in the network, across the company, by having this network and bringing them together.
Melitta: And it was just the most incredible experience. So now I’m a big fan of women’s networks, the right ones.
Teresa: Exactly. And you know now I am. And I think you’re right, there is something about having all women in a in a group that they are very supportive. They do cheer each other on. They are, if it’s the right group of people, obviously that’s not always the case, but, but I do think there’s something about it.
Teresa: And also one thing I find, cause in my, in my membership predominantly it’s women, there are men in there and it’s not just for women, but I attract majority women. And in my next level of membership there are all but one that women. And I think, you know, creating a space where they can talk about things that are honest and things that only, and this is going to sound so I’ve got, you know, I’m so careful on it.
Teresa: I don’t want these things, cause it sounds so sexist. It’s like only women can deal with, but the role of being a parent is traditionally different if you’re a woman. You know, one of my members in particular, if that’s a couple of my members, they have their own businesses, their partners have full-time jobs, there businesses, and yet they’re still responsible for the children and the cooking and the, you know, and that just blows my mind.
Teresa: And I’m very well, I don’t even want to say the word lucky because it’s not, it shouldn’t be lucky. There should be the case that my husband does as much as I do. In fact, he probably does more than I do because we have helped with cooking now. But it shouldn’t be that even if you’ve got your own business, that still sits on your plate, it should be shared out.
Teresa: So I think having women together who could talk about these things, a great cause you can relate and understand and support and that sort of thing. So, so yeah, I’m, I am a big fan of it now. I do think there’s definitely something different about women coming together and women in business that we need to be slightly different. So.
Melitta: Yeah, absolutely. And it’s all about being particularly important during COVID as well during the lockdown, I extended my program, say that everyone could stick together to the chaos. We didn’t know what was going to happen. And actually it turned out to be really important because a lot of the women, they just didn’t know how to handle the situation.
Melitta: Suddenly the husband was saying, ‘Well why is the fridge empty?’ They’re like, ‘Well we haven’t gone shopping yet. Do you want to do that?’ And he’s like, ‘Yeah, yeah. I didn’t know what to get? Get what you eat.’ So they felt under a lot of pressure and it was nice that we could all support them in making the decisions and asking for the things that they needed.
Teresa: And it’s interesting as well that you say that, you know, when you went to Switzerland, life almost went back 10 years. You know, it is interesting different cultures in different places. How, it’s still very much, you know, as certain way, I did some training in Dubai a few years back when we could travel. And I remember obviously I wanted to make sure that I was very in line with their culture, but I remember getting very specific directions. And my husband is sketched by a lot, went to middle east a lot. So he knew them and things like, you know, if a male came in, I wasn’t to put my hand down and shake his hand. I had to wait till he offered his hand, you know? And it’s things like this that I would have done automatically. You know, because of you know I’m fairly confident with dealing with males, but, but again, you have to remember that even though there’s still a lot of work to do in the UK and do in the States and in very westernized places, there are places in the world that are still 10, 15, 20 years behind where we are. So, yeah, it’s really interesting. Anyway.
Melitta: Looking at these places and seeing that the women are finding a way anyway. And I loved that.
Teresa: Yeah, well, funnily enough, I did some work looking at Dubai and seeing what was available for women entrepreneurs and that sort of thing. And it is, they are trying, you know, you think, gosh, like this thing is hard enough anyway, to do it in a country where generally you’re not, you know, that is not the done thing.
Teresa: That is just phenomenal that you’re doing that. Um, so yeah. Okay. So you started this networking, you started your small group program. And one thing that I bought you on because I really want you to talk about today is the fact that one of the points that you said is that your, your audience, the people in your small group program thought they can market to everybody.
Teresa: And this is like a marketer’s nightmare to say who, you know, ‘Who buys your product?’ ‘Well anybody.’ Because they are the hardest people to market to when it’s anybody. One thing that you talk about specifically, which I’m fascinated in, because this is something that I’ve not really done, although I’ll touch on it in a bit is niching and why and how and all the good stuff.
Teresa: So explain to us first about what is a niche and why do you need one?
Melitta: Yeah, I think niching is something that’s really interesting and it, and it’s just helping you get a little bit more specific about who you help and the impact you can have. So with my clients, one of the very first steps we do, even if they’ve been in this business for several years is take a step back and relook at their vision, their values what’s really important and meaningful to them.
Melitta: So that we can make sure that’s built into the fabric of what they do. But then we also do a similar exercise for the clients and then where those two overlap, where we see that there’s common elements of where, what the client wants to achieve and what they the impact that they want to have for others overlaps.
Melitta: And that is where we start to build their messaging, their product suite, their communications, and marketing, everything. And then it just feels like it just has this beautiful flow that everything isn’t in alignment. It makes sense. It makes sense to them. It makes sense to the clients, and it becomes an experience and a journey rather than, ‘Oh, this is what I do. And now I have to sell it to this person.’ or a big push. If you’d speak into the wrong people, you feel that in your sales conversations and they feel like sales conversations, which of course they shouldn’t do. It should just feel like the next logical step in your journey together. And one of my clients, um, described the processes.
Melitta: ‘Oh, well, are you teaching us this title marketing.’ It’s like, what do you mean?’ She’s ‘Well, while everyone else is knocking on the front door, all dressed up smart, introducing themselves politely. We’re just going in the side.’
Melitta: Love that imagery. Yeah. Say I’m really feeling. That’s what your marketing should feel like for your clients that you’re there alongside them you’ll understand them. You you’re on that mission with them to help them get to where they want to go to. You get them like no one else does. And you can’t have that level of connection and meaning and value and messaging with your clients if you don’t know specifically who they are. And that’s where the niche comes in. And when it comes to niching, a lot of people don’t go deep enough. They think, ‘Oh I’m working with women age 35 to 50, and they live in this area and they want to get fit.’ But you can’t really niche. It’s not really meaningful.
Melitta: What you really want to know is, is what are they trying to achieve in their life? And what’s holding, what’s standing them in their way. What are the other challenges? And a lot of the time you can lock it to their challenges and not at actually anything to do with what you do in business, but it shows that you care and it shows insight and understanding, and that’s where the side door comes in.
Melitta: So you’re already there with them and then them help you working with them to really solve their problems. It’s just for them it’s just the next step. It’s an easy decision for them to make.
Teresa: I love that there’s so much there about that I love. I love the word side door and that is brilliant and it is a bit like, I know you so well, like I can make you a coffee and we can have a chat because I know, you know, we are on that level.
Teresa: So, but the thing that I really liked about what you said is when I first you know, cause obviously I review who’s coming on the podcast. I look at, you know what we’re going to talk about. I put some questions together and when I put niching first and, and thought, right, we’re gonna have a discussion about niching my first thought was that you’re going to say, you need to pick a really specific area. And so for instance, when I see niching I see, I only work with this isn’t me. Someone else. I only work the social media managers. I only deal with people in the finance industry. I only work with the building industry or whatever it is.
Teresa: So often and I’m really glad you came in from this point of view because for a long time I said, I didn’t have a niche. And I felt that held me back. And then I realized I did. I just, wasn’t a typical niche. So talk about, I don’t want to, I will talk about that in a bit, but talk about the fact of like, what we see is the typical niche. Like, you know, the kind of what that people think it has to be. Oh, I only deal with this type of thing rather than a niche of understanding your audience.
Melitta: Yeah. I think when it comes to niching, you know, in some cases, if your, if your business is all about being a local legend, you know, that kind of business, then it makes perfect sense to say, well, I am looking at this demographic, that demographic of person in this area, but for most businesses now they’re going online.
Melitta: And I work a lot with coaches because I see that’s where it really an industry where they really struggle to communicate that they really care about having impact and helping people. But what that, how to communicate that, what that is, is really difficult, because it’s such an abstract concept coaching and lots of people have very different understandings of what it means and different experiences of it.
Melitta: And how do you cut through that? And the way is to not talk about coaching, but of course, talk about the transformation that you get for people, the result, what they’re going to look for afterwards. And there’s that famous quote by Theodore Levitt, the marketing professor at Harvard, I think he’s recently retired, but he was talking about the fact that people don’t want a quarter inch drill. They want a quarter inch hole in the wall. And it’s like well, hands up, who wants a hole in the wall you know? So it’s our job to really understand what they want that hole for? Do they want to put a beautiful picture of their family up? Do they want to put a meaningful piece of art? Are they putting a bookshelf with their favorite titles on or some their favorite objects?
Melitta: So that’s what we want to find out from our clients is to, to understand enough about what that hole is for them. And that’s what you want to talk about. What are they going get after working with us. And is that something that they’re looking for? And I think then it becomes you, you, you are narrowing the market down, but you’re also keeping yourself open to opportunities.
Melitta: So it’s not like, oh, I’m only going to work with people. Oh, you’re 26, not 25. I don’t work with you. And I think particularly for most business owners are there to solve a problem. So it’s, it’s, it’s knowing what that, that the resolution of that problem means for people. And that’s what you want to build your niche around. I think.
Teresa: Yeah. That’s so good. So let me tell you about this story then. So. I started years ago doing, like being a marketing manager for people in consultancy. And then we had an agency and then I started the online business and I could have any small business in my online business. And that still stands today.
Teresa: So I’ve got people who do baking classes, who have book subscriptions for children, who are personal trainers, who are coaches, who are web developers, who I’m just trying to think who are speakers, who are advocates about domestic abuse. Like literally you name it. I’ve probably got someone in the academy that covers that thing. Okay. And I started to look at my, not even my competitors, my other people in the industry doing similar things to what I’m doing. And when I looked at the ones that were really successful, they have a very tight niche.
Teresa: So for instance one of my, and these are all people that I coach, which is kind of like, I always joke it’s a little bit embarrassing that they have slightly bigger audiences and big and memberships than I do, and I coach them. But one of them is she has a membership specifically for counselors on how to market their counseling services private practice. I have another couple of people that I coach who specifically do social media managers and help them with that.
Teresa: And I looked at these people and I was like that’s my problem. I don’t have a niche. I need a niche. And then every time I tried to think of a niche, I said I don’t want a niche. I don’t want to. I like the fact that I talk about baking and then talk about something completely opposite to baking within a very short space of time.
Teresa: And my brain works fast and I liked that. I like having to think quite from one thing to another. And in my 15 years of marketing, I have marketed literally from frozen chicken to cars, luxury cars, like I found a lot. So it’s really difficult for me to niche. So I always said I didn’t have a niche and I find it really difficult.
Teresa: And then I did some work with one of my members who was very good at copywriting. And it turns out I totally have a niche, but I didn’t have a traditional niche that the others had. Like we only deal with these types of businesses or people, my niche personality niche. It’s a type of person niche. So for instance, if someone applies to come on the podcast and they named me in their application, how they made six figures in 10 minutes and used one secret hack. They’re out before I even look at them.
Teresa: Like they are not for me. They’re not my audience. If someone talks about hustling and getting up at 4:00 AM to do your morning routine, I am all for that. That’s great. However, my audience and me, we’re family. We have families, we have children. I don’t want to hustle. I don’t want to work 16 hours a day, seven days a week to build this business because that had been neglect on my daughter.
Teresa: So I realized that actually only have found the niche by being very authentic in terms of who I am and how I am you know. And then attracting a similar type of person by saying to them, I know you don’t want to work all the hours that God sends and you don’t even want to be a millionaire, although that would be nice.
Teresa: Like you just want a business that matters and income that matters, and you don’t want to be overwhelmed and exhausted that you can’t even spend five minutes with your children. That, that for me, it felt like hallelujah that I’d finally found it, but it don’t think many people think like that. And it’s so good to hear that you think like that.
Melitta: Exactly. And I think your story I’ve heard quite a few times and it creeps people out. So like, well, I work with, I work with all these different types of people and I don’t want to not work with them. Uh, but then when we talk about it, then it, they do have a niche it’s this result that the kind of lifestyle that people want afterwards, that is totally what they helped them with.
Melitta: And they can, and it takes a bit of digging sometimes, but there’s always some kind of common element because someone’s, they’ve all seen something in you that they, they want, that they respect that they, that they believe that they can take away value from. And often it’s the same thing where you just need to dig that bit deeper.
Melitta: So, yeah, I love that story and it really perfectly illustrates the idea of like, what do they want that hole for? And it doesn’t need to be the same thing, even, you know, it’s just like, well, how can you help them create that perfect wall? Maybe that’s the, you know, the niche, but yeah. Niching around the result and what they come away fit afterwards the thing is really powerful.
Teresa: Yeah. Okay. So let’s say someone’s listening to this and they’re thinking ‘I need to kind of really hone in.’ because that, that exercise of being able to go in the side door. I love that is so good. And it’s a game changer when talking to audience. So what sort of things would you recommend that they do, or how do they get started to try and even, you know, understand who those people are and work with those things.
Melitta: Yeah, I think there’s, there’s one little tip I gave my clients and it’s quite a fun exercise and it, and it’s really, really quick and simple and it, and it works. So all you need to do is just imagine your client on a Friday night, they’ve had a hard week. They good on the pub with their friends and they’re a little bit tipsy and they just like slam their fists on the table.
Melitta: Like ‘I just won.’ What’s that, then that is your message. Now you just want to build everything around. What is that one big problem they have that they’re just sick to the back teeth and they want to get rid of it that you can help with and start from there.
Teresa: Yeah, no, that’s great. I often say if I could wave a magic wand, like if I could wave a magic wand, what would we do?
Teresa: How would it look? How would. Cause again, that’s what both of our questions are doing is it’s coming from emotion. Is coming from, you know, what parts of your business are, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It’s not that at all. It’s coming from a frustration or, uh, or a vision of where they want to be. So I think that’s really, really good.
Teresa: I think that’s, yeah, for me, that’s really powerful knowing that sort of thing.
Melitta: Yeah. And you often hear you go on someone’s website or you hear them pitch themselves on social media. And there ‘Know I help a busy, busy moms find the right nutritional blend or ricks for their kids.’ and whatever it is like, no one’s sitting up at night thinking, oh, I wish I had the right nutritional mix for my kids.
Melitta: It’s like, how do I kind of get the food on the table and not poison them in five minutes? They read it. There’s w we really need to. I understand the conversation that’s going on in your client’s mind and join that conversation. Be part of that, help them know that where they’re at is fine and that there is a better future and help them believe in that vision because that’s often the tricky part is that they know what they want they just don’t necessarily believe that that is possible for them. And when you come and say, oh, I can make that possible for you. They want to believe you. But if you can’t communicate how clearly, and they don’t mean like how, as in the exact steps that they’re going to take to get that they’re not really interested in that they just want…
Teresa: a new transformation.
Melitta: Yeah. They just want to believe that this really is possible for them. You kind of want to be their champion and on their side. And, and I think a lot of people see that client is the victim. And I don’t, I don’t like that at all. As much bad as to see them as the champion and believe in their vision and help them to believe in it too, through the steps and the process that you take them.
Teresa: Yeah, absolutely. And do you find as well, sometimes when I try and talk about this to my audience, and especially if I’m teaching a group or doing a talk somewhere and I talk about the pain points, i.e. you know, what’s the problem? What are you helping them with? Often they take that very literally. And feel that their customers have to be in pain.
Teresa: So that let’s take my lovely member who does baking classes and I’ve done some baking classes with her. She did an amazing baking class and I’m celiac. So that was excellent. And then my husband loves Christmas cake. And even though I couldn’t eat it, I did a class to make him a Christmas cake, which I think was his best present ever.
Teresa: It might be very hard for her to understand that the transformation or the pain points or that, because it sounds really dramatic. So if you were looking at, say her business, what kind of things would you be thinking about from that, that point of view in terms of trying to get in that side door?
Melitta: Yeah, I think it is putting it all in context. Isn’t it? So if you have a baking business and I hate this term and I hear so many people say, no, you really have to find the pain, scratch the pain, make them feel really, really bad. Like, oh, that just such, such horrible imagery in case instead of, yeah, I know. It’s just like, what really, really sucks for them.
Melitta: You know, it’s their child’s birthday. They really wanna make their own cakes. They didn’t want to go to Tesco and get something that everyone else has. They want to put love into those cakes, but they don’t know how every time it looks flat and although their kids’ smiles ‘It’s great mommy.’ There, they feel a little bit disappointed inside.
Melitta: That’s their pain point and or they want to make the cakes, but they there, they’re busy working mom. They don’t have the time to get the ingredients and, you know, everything that goes around that. So it’s not the actual baking of the cake, but what are the problems that as
Teresa: Driver behind them?
Melitta: Sorry.
Teresa: It’s the driver behind it. Isn’t it?
Melitta: Yeah, exactly. And as you said earlier, it’s, it’s that emotional connection with the problem that they have, because if they don’t have any emotional connection with it, then it’s like, well, they don’t care. You know, is the net, they’re not going to invest in solving it. If it’s not something that they.
Melitta: You know when you talk about it specifically, and you really do that mind reading piece that I understand where you’re at it’s does it feel like this? And they feel like, oh my God, you just punch me in the stomach. You need to go to that level just to connect with their emotions. And, but then you don’t want to make them feel bad for being there. You want to give them hope that that’s okay. We’ve all been there. You’re fine and we’re going to, we’re going to help you out there. So you’re gonna have the most beautiful cakes your daughter has ever seen for her birthday. And you’re going to just feel so proud, putting them on a plate for your daughter.
Melitta: You know. Every product has some kind of emotional draw to it. And I remember an old sales, mental years ago, we’re saying, if we didn’t have this emotional connection with, with the products we buy, if we just always looking for the cheapest one, everyone would be driving a secondhand Skoda. And how many of those do you see?
Melitta: There is always that emotional connection. So you just need to find what’s meaningful for them. I said, right at the beginning, do you do this process for yourself to understand what’s meaningful in your business and what you really want to create? Just do exactly that exercise for your clients.
Teresa: That’s so good. And again, I think that’s something that maybe people haven’t done and I’ve drawn one of those like dyed drums, or they crossover on my notes as I’m making notes but like seeing that point of where they matching and where they meet.
Teresa: And I think as well, like one thing that’s interesting is, especially if you are if you have a business like mine and like yours or coach or where you are the business, I think by working at your values and your vision and those things that are important to you is great because I don’t want to attract people who don’t align with my values.
Teresa: If you need someone to go, just do it. And, and sometimes I will say that, but only once I know the person I know. You know, you know, how sometimes you need the carrot and sometimes you need the steak. Well, I know my members well enough to know which ones give them. Whereas, you know, I know the people who may interested that literally just stick to the steak and literally go, you know, you don’t want it hard enough.
Teresa: You’re not trying hard enough to just get on and do it. And it’s like, if someone’s values, don’t align to that they won’t go to that. So being honest in, in your office, some people will only want that and therefore they might not come to me because. Uh, you know, I can be sympathetic from a to know what it, you know, I work hard.
Teresa: I have a successful business but I still have a family and I still want to enjoy myself. And I still want to finish at three o’clock on a Friday. So I can have a glass of gin or whatever, like, you know, so I think being honest about that is, is a good thing. And one of my questions, one of the things I was going to ask you is like, when should we niche?
Teresa: And I’ve in my head, I was like, you know what because part of me is like well, it gets as soon as she can, but then another part of me thinks, well, actually, maybe you need to do it for a while to realize what your boundaries are or to realize who you want to work with. So, w I mean, I’m going to ask the question, although I’ve half answered it.
Teresa: So when would I advocate it? When, when should we consider this?
Melitta: Yeah, it’s a tricky one. Isn’t it? Because. If you start your business, working with everyone, you know, that you’re doomed to fail, to start with. You’re going to be working way too hard for way too little results and not get anywhere. So you do need to start with some kind of niche, but I think it’s important to understand that it will evolve. Now where you start is never where you end up.
Melitta: You’ll start working with these clients and you’ll realize, oh, I really love working with them. And I didn’t expect that. Or I hated working with them. I would want them to be a dream, and you’re going to be refining that niche all the time. And it’s kind of like an hourglass. I feel you start quite broad.
Melitta: And then you, you come in, you think, oh yeah, I don’t like those or want to do this. This is the impact. So then you have a narrow niche, but then more people can see, oh, that’s how you do that. Well, that’s the value you have. And then suddenly you have more opportunities that grow from that positioning, and then you refine again.
Melitta: So it was always kind of ebbing and flowing. So I think if it’s not clear immediately just start somewhere, just start, learn, grow, evolve, and know that that’s okay. And I know in my podcast and new episodes coming out same to you that it’s, I don’t think anyone on that pep show has told me that where they started is where they are today.
Melitta: They’ve all learned and grown and it’s normal it’s and I think as well, when you starting out, you really underestimate what you can do and how valuable what you have to offer is. And so, as soon as you start to realize that for yourself, you will become more picky as well. I have one client and she had a teacher at school.
Melitta: She taught children to read in English. So where I live, everyone speaks French. They are French school. And she was just taking anyone that wanted to read in English, but she was, she was not really doing well. She’d been making a loss for two years and she wasn’t particularly loving what she was doing.
Melitta: She was struggling with her marketing. She didn’t really know how to break through from that. She was just spending a lot of money on advertising because it’s the only thing she could think of to bring in more clients. And it wasn’t working. Of course. So we looked at again, her values, how does she don’t do her business?
Melitta: And we realized that she does something quite different to anyone else. She is a professional teacher. She’s been doing it a long time. She doesn’t have a textbook, like every other English class here in the region. She doesn’t use a textbook. She co creates the lessons with the child or children if it’s a group class.
Melitta: So it’s really focused on their interests, what they want to do next and she speaks to the parents to understand what’s the gap that the school isn’t filling for them so that they don’t just learn to read. They learn to love learning. And as soon as she understood that she was then able to, to show, well, this is what I’m look, this is what I give for your child.
Melitta: And if that’s what you’re looking for your child, then great. You know, and I remember. After we kind of finished working on this process and she had her, her messaging the next week, she had five people walking off the street. She goes, I don’t know why this doesn’t normally happen, but four then signed up on the spot and they didn’t even ask the price.
Melitta: And she was like, didn’t even sell it. Like we did it. It’s this side marketing idea, you know, they came in, they just loved everything that you did, your vision matched what they were looking for. And so, why would they even consider going anywhere else no matter what the cost. The fifth person, however, insisted ‘No, I want my child to work from a textbook.’ And that wasn’t what she did.
Melitta: So she was able to say, you know, so-and-so down the road does that brilliantly. They’re half the price of me. If that’s what you’re looking for, go there. And before she said she would have been up all night thinking, oh my gosh, I need to have an offer that has a textbook. You know, she would have really been doubting herself, but now she was like realize she was never going to make that client happy that client was never going to make her happy. The child would have suffered in the, in the process. And so she felt happy about not taking that client. And that’s the moment where she realized, yeah, I’ve, I’ve got this and we took him off budget from where she realized the biggest problem that for her clients was nothing to do with their children learning.
Melitta: It was about them feeling settled in the area. So she just started a networking group once a week, once a month, invited different guests in. She would help translate the school letters for them, help them really navigate the, the environment that their children were in. So they had less stress at home.
Melitta: They felt more settled. So now her marketing budget is 20 pounds for tea, coffee, and croissant versus hundreds that she was putting in advertising before. And that’s really the side door marketing results. It’s really transformed everything. She was after six months of working together, she was fully booked. And then a year later she was opening a second center.
Teresa: ACE that’s so good. But again that strength of going that’s not what I offer. Like, this is what if you want this. That’s not me. I think there is a lot of, a lot of strength in that, doing that and not, and in the early days, when you’re desperate for money and you just want a business, then you do take people that you don’t want to work with or things you don’t want to do.
Teresa: And the point you can get to where you go ‘No, this is what I’m really good at, and I’m not going to offer these other things.’ So just one final question then, because I guess I’m thinking about my audience in terms of like they’re listening to this, they’re getting it. It all makes perfect sense. How do we translate that understanding of our vision, their vision into actual marketing?
Teresa: Like I’m sat here thinking you need to be from flipping amazing copywriter to PR content that verbalizes this. So what, how would they take that stuff that knowledge and use it. And how and where would they use it?
Melitta: Yeah, I think actually it becomes a copywriter’s dream. Once you can tell them, like, this is my client, this is what they’re struggling with. This is what they want. This is their vision, but this is my vision and how I’m going to help them. You know, they’d be like happy days and it was the communication consultant for a long time. And that would have been your dream. If people said that instead, they’re like, ‘Oh, this website looks quite nice and that one’s quite good. Can you do something like that?’ like, well no.
Teresa: It must feel something like this where it doesn’t actually tell you like the benefits and the service or out of then does it?
Melitta: No.
Teresa: That’s funny.
Melitta: So, and I think also once you know your clients it on that level and coming back to this light side door idea, you know, you don’t stress over what you say to a friend over coffee.
Melitta: You just have a chat and you, you, you you’re there with them. So it became even the social media and everything becomes much easier. And the marketing becomes much more obvious because like, with that example of the, the language school, before she is paying advertising, going insane on social media and instead all she needed to do was invite them in for coffee and, and say, or what were they struggling with?
Melitta: What would be meaningful to them? How can I make my center and what I do part of their life and, but be there alongside them in a genuine way, not to kind of force them into anything but something that’s really valuable that they want to come. And then I’m part of their community and, and it worked beautifully for her.
Melitta: And it was something that she really enjoyed. Cut down the costs as well. I’ve got another client and she created a financial software. So she helps businesses with their budgeting and finance. And what she did was create a mini version of that for, for them at home, because she realized that actually the last thing they’d want to do when they get home is more budgeting.
Melitta: So if they had exactly the same system at home, as they had in the office, it would be really easy. They don’t need two different things. And then they were also being inducted into her software. But it showed that they, that she understood that they had a life outside the business, that they, she was really showing that she cared about them as a person.
Melitta: And not just as a, as a, as a kind of a sales or a number in the office. And. And they loved that and they really appreciated it. And they started having very different conversations with her clients based on, on that understanding. And they would bring pictures of her, their kids and her. Oh. And she would say, ‘I really want you to have more time with the kids.’
Melitta: And she’s a single mom, so she could say, you know, I know how important that is to me. And it’s really my gift you. So there’s all sorts of ways you can, you can, you can play with that idea I think.
Teresa: Yeah. And you’re right. I think funnily enough, I’m doing a big thing. Some contents of this week and talking about content and one things I talked about, it was looking at your customer wider, not just looking at them from there, the problem they’ve got the I solve, but what is their life?
Teresa: Where do they live? How do they live? What do they want to do a weekend? Because like you said, often we don’t want to talk about things that aren’t our product or service. Like I constantly talks about, about books I’ve read or in reading. And it’s like, You know, am I, is my business to help you find books?
Teresa: No, that’s not my business tool, but I know that my audience often want it to learn and grow and develop, and therefore I’m matching them with that content. You know, the same as like, they like a bit of motivation or they might want to see something else that is like, what is it like to be a mom and her in a business.
Teresa: So even though my product and services doesn’t necessarily directly, you know, fix being a mum and running a business. The, the knowledge that I know, what it’s like, talk to them on a level, they understand.
Melitta: Yeah, exactly. It’s marketing to the whole person and not just selling that one product and really, and that’s when they feel that they’re part of something.
Melitta: I mean, if you think about the last time you had amazing service, if you went and bought something and you just loved the whole experience of buying it and it felt good. And you breakdown. Well, what did, what made it different? You’ll notice it wasn’t anything big or grand. It was just the tiny, noticeable things that they did that made you feel valued.
Melitta: That made you feel that you were more than just a the next sale. And I think that’s really something important to, to think about as well. It’s never the big, expensive gestures. It’s always, there’s, there’s little things that you do to make them feel valued and understood. And that’s something that’s really valuable now after. People after COVID, people want connection, they want to be understood.
Melitta: They want to have that, that space to be themselves with you. And yeah, I think that’s really just the most wonderful gift you can give to them.
Teresa: Yeah, absolutely. Melitta, thank you so much. It’s been such a good conversation. I’ve loved the fact that we’re longing so well on which I knew we would, cause obviously we’ve spoke before. But you know that we’re coming from a really kind of good place in marketing.
Teresa: Whereas I think sometimes we’re up against the sleazy sales and the get rich quick and that just isn’t the case. And I think it’s a slower journey sometimes. And when I look at my stuff, it’s a slower journey, but it’s a more sustainable journey and it’s a more ethical journey. Like, you know, I’m not just selling stuff to get rich and therefore I don’t care about the results.
Teresa: Like I won’t be able to succeed. And, and it sounds exactly the same for you. So thank you so, so much. It’s been a real pleasure, having you on a podcast.
Melitta: You’re welcome. I’ve really enjoyed it.
Teresa: There we go. I hope you enjoyed that. I did. I really liked the bit where she talked about where your values and visions overlap with your client’s values and visions.
Teresa: And that gives me, oh, that’s my watch making noises. It’s so funny. I was laughing with my academy members the other day I was talking about one of my members won an award, which is excellent. In fact, I will link him in the show notes because it’s the lovely Ben Bellamy from Shoutable agency. And he is currently as we speak redesigning my website because you know what happens, you got a website and after like literally six months, like I could probably do with the new one. Yeah. I’m a nightmare. Anyway, I’m having a bit of a rebranded stuff, which is very exciting. You heard it here first anyway, back to the point. So he was saying that he’d won an award and I was like talking about my award. I won. And I said, you know, the problem is I put it behind me and you can’t see as if it’s see through.
Teresa: And then I laughed. Cause I was like, it’s the most professional speaker award I won. I won a female speaker thing. And it was most professional. It makes me laugh because I feel far from it if I’m honest, but you know, we’re amongst friends. He’s my friend it’s fine. And if you’re new to this you might be thinking, Jesus, she always this?
Teresa: Sorry I am. Anyway. Yeah. I love that. I love that kind of crossing visions of valleys thought that was brilliant. And it gives you confidence to go. Do you know what, if they don’t fit with my visions of values they’re not for me. And that’s okay. And also, side door marketing, I did really like that. And the fact of it shouldn’t sound selly, which I, as you know, hate selling.
Teresa: Anyway, I really enjoyed that episode. I thought it was great. Lots of good takeaways. So I hope you did too. Just a quick reminder, if you do fancy half day thing, I have me putting it on it will be paid, but it won’t be astronomical band instruction imagination. Please drop me a DM. I’d love to hear from you or email or whatever, whatever.
Teresa: And yeah, it’d be good to know if that’s something that you think you would like, and we could put it on so cool. Okay. I will leave it to leave it to, you know, leave you to it. And I will see you very professional speaker who would have thought. Have a great week. And I will see you next week.
