Peter Grainger on his journey from employee to 7 figure business owner

Have you ever wondered what it takes to go from an employed person with a business idea to a business owner, with a £1 million turnover and products in mainstream supermarkets like Tesco, Waitrose, and Ocado?

Well, CafePod founder, Peter Grainger shares with me the 3 mindset beliefs that he had when he started his business, and how it helped him to grow it to where he is today.

The great news is that these three things are things that you can work on, to start to believe in yourself to grow your own businesses so tune in now and get inspired!



🌟 The key skills that are needed to start a business outside of your skills and expertise

🌟 The learning experiences of launching a new business in a competitive industry

🌟 Where to look for investors for a new business venture and how to get them on board

CafePod is a London-based independent coffee company that makes great-tasting coffee to enjoy at home. Their diverse range of exciting blends are available as Nespresso®️ compatible pods, ground coffee and whole bean. CafePod is available to buy from, Amazon, Tesco, Waitrose and Ocado.

If you enjoyed this episode then please feel free to go and share it on your social media or head over to iTunes and give me a review, I would be so very grateful.


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Teresa: Have you ever wondered what it takes to go from an employed person with a business idea to a business owner with a 7 million turnover and products in mainstream supermarkets like Tesco's, Waitrose and Ocado. Well, CafePod founder Peter Grainger shares with me the three mindset beliefs that he had when he started his business and it helped him to grow it to where he is today.

And the great news, these three things are things that we can work on to start to believe ourselves to grow our own businesses.

Hello and welcome to this week's episode of the your dream business podcast. So this week I have a really cool interview for you. I'm interviewing Peter Grainger, who is the founder of CafePod. And when they first approached me to say, would I have him on the podcast?

I initially thought how well does this resonate with you guys who are listening to this? As I've interviewed a couple of people recently who have really big businesses and, and different style businesses. It's been really good for me to understand how their brain works and what made them go into businesses that appear really difficult.

Like to suddenly decide to do a coffee brand that is not like, and, and you'll hear in this that he had no experience in this. He didn't work in coffee, he didn't work in like anything entrepreneurial. He literally went from working in the city to starting a business, which was crazy. What I've took from these episodes is.

The mindset they have, the, the thoughts they have when they first go into business and how they approach things. And they have been really motivating to me. So I have really enjoyed bringing some different types of people to the podcast. Peter Grainger is the founder of Cafe Pod, which is a London based independent coffee company that makes great tasting coffee.

I can attest to that because I have had some, and in fact, I had bought some prior to them reaching out. I knew who they were, so that was cool that you can enjoy at home their diverse range of exciting blends are available as Nespresso compatible pods, grind coffee and whole beans. And CafePod is available to buy from cafepod. com, Amazon, Waitrose, Tesco's and Ocado.

So I hope you enjoyed today's episode. Like some really, really good takeaways, really. Keep in mind the way that he, his brain worked and some of the things that were absolute essential for him to go forward with this business idea. I took a lot from it. I'm doing some more work for myself around some of the things that he said.

So yeah, I really hope you enjoyed today's episode. If you do, I would love it if you would share it with someone who is a business buddy, my goal, my aim this year is to really focus on growing my podcast. I've been doing it for a long time and I love it and it is full of value. So the more business people I can get in front of the better.

So if you know someone who is in business and might like a podcast, then please go and share this episode with them. Okay, let's get on with the interview. Here's Peter. I am really pleased to say to welcome to the podcast, Peter Grainger. Peter, how are you doing?

Peter: I'm good. I'm good. Thanks for having me.

Teresa: My pleasure.

So we were chatting before we hit record how I was saying that you, your size business is normally a bit bigger than I would normally interview, but your story was fascinating. And with some of the other interviews I've done recently, I think we could have a really interesting conversation. But I want to start as I do most often with tell people what you do and how you got to do the thing you do.

Peter: Sure. So we are a coffee company. We've started, we started a quite. It probably quite a unique way. So we sell a range of coffee products that people use at home. Predominantly pods that works for the Nespresso system, as well as beans and ground coffee and some of the accompanying equipments, but we really cut our teeth and started the business within the Nespresso compatible pods world.

And that really came about in 2011.

I was working in the city in London, took some time out, I was working a hundred hour weeks. I thought probably not a good idea to do on a long term basis, went to sit on the proverbial rock. And eventually after traveling around for a while, saw somebody who was making their own Nespresso. And I knew nothing about the category, the products.

I mean, I knew as much as coffee as the next person who goes to a cell box or an arrow. And I think more just from my curiosity point of view, I started asking a question, or, you know, like, Oh, the patent that expired, the whole market's opening up. And I was like, Oh, it's that mean how many pods could they possibly sell?

I don't know. Like, is it, is it a beige industry? And it turns out it is a multi billion dollar. And that's just Nespresso. So the actual hog world, it's huge. And that just piqued my interest. And when I got back to London, I got together with friends that we spoke about it. Like any friends would chat about dreams and aspirations of, oh, we should do this and we should do that.

I suppose the difference was that one of the co founders, Brent, is a very action oriented person. And he was just like, right. Enough talk. We're doing this. Simon, we're going to your house tomorrow. We're setting up a company. We're going to open a bank account. This is happening. And that's kind of, so, so the three of us, just to give you some context, you still work together, but none of us knew anything about coffee, manufacturing, branding, supermarkets.

I mean, we literally knew nothing, but when you, there was an opportunity, yeah, it sounded exciting. Everybody likes coffee and that's literally how we started. It's 12, 13 years ago.

Teresa: That is a crazy story. Like so let me just check a couple of things. So you were working, so you'd never owned a business before

Peter: none of us had

Teresa: any experience in owning a business as in like the job you did in the city.

Was it assisting people to set up businesses or something?

Peter: No, no, no, no, no, no. Like, like we all, I mean, I was, I was kind of like a financial analyst, but I used to kind of, I worked in the financial part of it. On the investment firm. And my job was kind of thrown at some challenges and trying to unpick them.

And I kind of, I did bits and pieces of things, but yeah, we were very far. Any of us were very far from real business. We were part of somebody else's business and we never really got to touch the business pieces of that. We, you know, the couple of hundred people who worked for the business. So you would, I mean, we're in our twenties, we're in our twenties, late twenties, so I mean, you know, everything in your twenties, but you realize, you know, nothing

Teresa: on your old stepson. I know, you're so smart.

Peter: Yeah, we literally had, I mean, naivety is probably the biggest thing we had and, and overconfidence, is that .

Teresa: Do you know, I was going to ask, right, because there is something there for you to go. So I'm presuming, I don't know, actually, so let me clarify this. Did you all leave your job to do this? Or did you run it alongside your job?

Peter: So I, I'd gone traveling. I then came back and I had to, we started working on this thing and I then had to find another job when I came back from traveling. So I, so we were all working while we were spending weekends and evenings working on a business plan. All that kind of stuff. So it was, and then I went full time first and then the other two subsequently be kind of came in over a period of six to 12 months.

Maybe when we finally went, right, we need an office, we need. A real business offices. One of the most important things to us though, was that we're like, right, it's our business. We don't want to commute. So we're going to walk to work. That's going to be like the dream. We're living the dream. Yeah. And we all lived in Putney and Southwest London, so we found a space and we're all from Africa as well.

And we'd love to do nothing more than flip flops. So we were like, right, shorts and flip flops walking to work. Yeah. How, how does it, how does it get much better than that?

Teresa: I love it. So I think someone who is much smarter than me and has, you know, qualifications in this could unpick all your brains and go, what was it that kind of made you all go, well, we're just going to do it.

Right. Was there any point where you were like, what if we fail?

Peter: No, I think the best way I can describe it is, is when you kind of connect the dots and you see something, whether it's an opportunity or whatever, or whatever else it is, and you kind of, to you, it's the pathway is clear in your own mind, but now whether that's a make believe pathway or not, in your mind, you believe it should be true.

And you can see it as clear as daylight. You're like, we do this and this will happen and this will happen and this will happen and we will reach here. It can't possibly happen any other way. So in your mind, that is the truth and you then operate according to that principle. So, you know, when we started raising money and people went, you're mad, this is ridiculous.

We were like, how can you even say that? Like it's obvious that this is gonna happen. Yeah.

Teresa: Like, how can you not see it?

Peter: We were like, you loss anyway, and we moved on. We were so clear and committed to that, that it was just, and I think also just the excitement, the opportunity. Like actually why, why can't we do this?

Like, like, it's not. It's not like we didn't know how to code and, and it required us to build a website. We're like, well, we don't know how to code, but this was, I don't know. We just saw it as, yeah, we can do all that stuff.

Teresa: Yeah.

Peter: We're as clever as anybody else.

Teresa: Yeah. I love it.

Peter: Why not?

Teresa: So, so you see this, you know, and, and, and, Obviously, starting with the fact that it was almost like it was put in front of you in one way, you know, you saw it and you're like, okay, this is really interesting.

So you weren't just lying on a beach and going, I know coffee pods, right? Which, you know, where the hell does that come from? So you'd seen this opportunity. Did you know and did you start to raise money from the very beginning or was it a case of, okay, we really want to do this. We've put some money in.

Actually, this isn't going to work without some help.

Peter: So the nature of what we wanted to do, so if we step back, so before the patent expired on, on Nespresso, being able to make your own Nespresso pods. Nobody in the world besides himself was making, so if you want it now, the market opened up a little bit.

So there were one or two people who had started doing it. And, but there was no, there's essentially no factories around. So if you wanted to do it, you physically had to make it yourself. So to do that, you needed manufacturing equipment. So we knew from the get go that We would have to manufacture, we did float the idea of, well, actually we could buy, you know, pods from this person and then resell them and then the classic kind of, you know, textbook, like, oh, we'll just cut out the middleman and we'll do it ourselves.

How hard can it be? And that's why, how, why we decided to do to make it ourselves versus buy from somebody else. And, but the equipment was hundreds of thousands. It was half a million. So we knew that in order to get going, we needed, I mean, we needed to physically have some big something and there was no factory in existence, so we needed that money to even start.

Teresa: Okay. So where did you like, so you decided I need some money. Do you have like super wealthy friends that you then say can you hook me up or did you know straight away that you'd have to go to people you didn't know? And if that was the case, where the hell did you look and how did you find them?

Peter: We used to, you know, in the environment that we used to work in, we knew we worked with some people who, who had some, who made some good money.

The irony is a lot of them were like, Oh, that's definitely, I mean, this is pocket change for them. And they were like, no, no, no, no, no, no. But you wouldn't even notice if the money's gone, actually like, oh, okay, there goes that assumption. So you kind of start off with what you assume to be the easiest path.

And then you realize that that's not quite how things are working. So we put together lists of people and then inevitably you get referrals from them like this is not for me but you could talk to Bob over here and and then We started researching angel networks, and then they would have these nights where you would bring your pitch down and they would invest some of the invite some of their, their members down and you would pitch to them and pass, but maybe you get some people from that and maybe you wouldn't, I mean, we ended up trying every, I mean, literally everything, and it was a brutal process, but it was The people who we call were obvious shoo ins were not.

And that left us short by quite a lot. And then we literally had the cold calling and the searching. And I think that never,a truer word, the phrase. If you want money ask for advice, and if you want advice, ask for money. We had a lot of advice. Let's put it that way.

Teresa: That is a great phrase. Like I love,

Peter: and it's true.

It is true. And it's one of the things that I keep anybody ever asked me about raising money. So if you think somebody is, you want to talk to somebody, don't ask them for the money, ask them for advice, ask them, I'm raising some money. What advice would you give me? And it's just, it works better than people think it does.

Teresa: Yeah, that's really interesting. Also, the fact that you got lots of no's and you said it was a really tough process, like how did you keep going with that? It sounds like there was no point that you went, this is a terrible idea. What the hell are we doing? Or what, or did that happen?

Peter: Oh no, no, no. I mean, it's, it's, we, we just were so bought into the idea and what we could do that it was just, I mean, it was hard.

It was brutal. And, and the machinery that we ended up having to buy was something like it took six to eight months lead time to build it. So as we were raising money, we raised a couple of hundred thousand pounds. And then we went to the people who we commissioned the machine to buy. And we were like, right, we'll put this down as a deposit.

And then we, we, we arranged with them to kind of pay them off through the process. And so it's, we'll be paid off at the end, but we didn't have that. So we basically put pressure on ourselves going, well, we'd put a deposit down now. Now we really need to find the rest of the money.

Teresa: Yeah.

Peter: And in that time we then had to go and talk to, I mean, we have no customer yet.

And this is the other, if I reflect back, it's just ridiculous.

Teresa: Yeah. I love it. When you do this, talk a story to you like, what the hell were we thinking?

Peter: But I mean, it's just, and we also assume that you would just buy a piece of machinery and like a toaster, you just plug it in, put some bread in it, push the button and out pops toast.

And that's how we assumed. You made coffee capsule, which is for the record, not how it works and is super, super, super complicated. And yeah, so, so we kind of learned a lot of the lessons on the fly, but at that time we already bought them. The clock was ticking effectively. So we're like, well, we don't have a choice now.

Teresa: I love that. Like, I think there's that great saying of like, you know, if you want it to work, you burn the boats. Like you put yourself in a position where you have no choice, but to make it work. And you did it. You put the deposit down. You went, yep. Okay. We're doing this. We'll find it. And you do. And you did, I'm assuming because we're here today.

So I love that. And there was a couple of other words that like, I really want to just touch on for the listeners just to go in case you didn't hear this. make sure you did. One, you had absolute clarity of this is what it is. Like who wouldn't want it? This is what we're going to do. This is why we're going to do it because it's got such a big market.

Why wouldn't people want to buy this? You had that excitement. And I guess the passion of we're going to make this work and it's going to be amazing. And, and, you know, it's awesome. And then you said the phrase of how hard could it be? Like, and I think you have got to go in with that. I'm, I am resourceful.

We don't know everything. And as business owners, Especially in the early days, when money is hard or when you are paying things out, there are going to be things that a business owner has to do that isn't their zone of genius. You know, none of this is your zone of genius, like this isn't what you did, but you knew, well, I'm smart enough to do the job I did do.

I can learn this. Like, and I think that is the truth, you know, that we are smart, resourceful people. We own businesses. We can learn these things. So when we say, I'm no good at the tech or I'm no good at this, or I'm no good at that, or the finance is hard or whatever it is, we can learn it. So I love those three things to take away.

So. I want to touch on, so obviously we've got some investment, you did all that, you've got the machine. How the hell did you get the customers? Because you weren't just trying to get customers, you were trying to get your product into places. So how did that, because then that's an entirely different skillset altogether.

Peter: Very true. So the premise of, of launching the business was that you effectively got this multi billion dollar industry, which has got only one player, one brand in it, it's now opening up. Which creates opportunity and the other opportunity was this Nespresso and for the record, I'm a massive fan of Nespresso as a business model, as a brand, they, they're the apple of the food world.

They have done an exceptional job over decades. So, I have a lot of respect for them, but they sold, they sold this stuff, in their own stores and then over the phone or online. And I think one of the gaps that we saw, which was already started happening a bit in France was that. Yeah, well, they didn't sell at supermarkets and that's where people buy food.

And I think from our point of view, and this is where the kind of customer and trustee comes from, like when you kind of make your customer reach a little bit too far, it's more about me than the customer. And that's not a good place to be when you, when you're a little bit too exclusive, a little bit too.

You're making a customer work too hard. I'm like, Hmm, that's not in the customer's interest. So, yeah. And I get why, why, why they did that. But for us, the opportunity was selling to the supermarket. So that's where it we exist. So in our minds, we were like, well, we just need to get all the products in the supermarket.

And as we started talking to people, they were like, that's ridiculous. Do you know how hard it is to get things into a supermarket?

Teresa: Let me just call Sainsbury's and go, will you take my product? Thanks very much.

Peter: Yeah. I mean, but in our minds, that's how it works. Yeah. There's massive demand for this, the huge industry, they don't have it.

Why would they not take it? Like, and so we just misstate the gain of the feedback we got and be like, you don't know what you're talking about as you do it. And we hired somebody by the name of Phil who came, he had many years of experience within the food and drink sector. With managing the retailer, then we told him what we wanted to do.

And he was just like, this is not how it works. You know, no way. We're like, it'll all work. It's fine. It's fine. It's fine. It's fine. It's fine. And he's like, well, if you want me to take your money, I will do that. And so he started talking to the supermarkets and they were actually quite perceptive and you know, the person who we first spoke to was the buyer at Waitrose.

But I'm a colleague and interestingly, she's still the buyer there after all these years. And it's been a massive fan of us and supporter when we, when we went to talk to her, she was like, well, my customers have been asking about this for years and years and years, and I've never been able to get it.

So I completely get the demand. I'd love to work with you guys. Yes. I want to do something there. Well, I see

that's how the dialogue started. And we, and we developed, I think he developed a product with working side by side in conjunction with Polly, the buyer at waitrose, because we didn't, we knew nothing about supermarket, like literally like the size and the packaging and, and how that plays a role in the shelf. All these things.

So, so there was an educational process happening there, but yeah, that's kind of how we,

Teresa: so did you have the product made before you started reaching out?

Peter: We, we made some hand samples. And kind of went, it'll kind of look like this, but don't look too close. Like, you know, when you keep the product moving, so nobody can actually focus on what they're actually looking for kind of thing, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, as these are the prototypes, but effectively it was.

We made hand samples and, and then the other thing we did, which was nuts is that we designed our own capsule, which it's actually quite a technical piece of packaging. It's not, it's just, there's so much that goes into it because under high pressure fluid dynamics internally, and how things come in and out and the interaction with the copy and different types of copy and how ground, but we basically find the plastic injection molder.

And we, we had a capsule, we were, can you, can you make us a capsule that's kind of like this, but different? That was our brief, which I reflect now, that's like, I don't know, making computer. Can you make, I don't know. It was just, it was ridiculous. So, so we're now also teaching ourselves about injection molding and fluid dynamics and copy. And so we're now learning all about that. Yeah. So,

Teresa: and the one thing we haven't even talked about is the actual coffee. Like that's the fascinating thing. Like you're deliverable to me as a customer is to make me a nice cup of coffee. Right. And, and, and in all the conversations we've had, and this is what is so fascinating about business because you would think like, well, it's just coffee, just make coffee.

And it's like, Oh yeah, yeah. No, like a machine to make coffee pods, how you make the coffee pods, like the market you're in, how you get them into supermarkets, how you learn about all of this stuff. The actual, just what goes inside the pod is like, I guess another matter, but like. It just sounds to me that it, you know, this was the steepest learning curve I would assume you've ever been on in your entire life.

Peter: I mean, yeah. If somebody ever asked me about learning a business, I was starting a business, I kind of say to them that you're going to learn more about yourself than you ever dreamed and for better or for worse, it is a self discovery process and you will learn that you're resourceful infinitely more than you thought possible because you just have to because yeah and on the copy front we found a partner in a in a roastery up north called Lincoln and York and the owner cut us Oh, we're trying to do and, and, and, and, well, his words were something along the lines of you Southerners coming up here and your fancy cars, thinking, you know, he basically called us out.

He's like, you don't know. And yeah, you'll, I think he could see the car crash coming. And to his credit, he was like, right, why don't we work together? We know coffee.

Teresa: Yeah.

Peter: We can work together in developing this. This is a new. New development in this industry, which doesn't have that much development. So we effectively ended up working them for years and years and years.

And he became an incredible mentor and just, you know, family, a very successful family run business, which has stood the test of time. And we've learned a lot from them, but we really work together because the other challenge was nobody in the industry and in the UK had ever made outside of the people that work for Nestle.

It's actually quite a specific skill. So we were both learning together and to your question about the coffee, one of the things we didn't know, and I think this is in a way there is a lot of advantage coming to an industry without any experience because you look at it from a consumer point of view.

And so our view was right. Nespresso is perceived to be amazing coffee. Whatever we do, we cannot be less than a minimum. Our quality copy, a copy needs to be at least equal, ideally better. So that was the starting premise. So when we started developing copy blends with these guys that, so we put amazing copy and now the challenge came in, how do you get the pods to actually deliver on that and that's where the tech technology comes in and that huge challenge, but yeah, we started with that premise that it has to be a, if this is not an improvement to what people can get, why would they buy?

Teresa: Yeah. Yeah. But I think I was just looking at my notes and one of the things you said, which I forgot to touch upon, which is such a good point, is don't make your customer work too hard. And I think it's really interesting in the exclusivity of Nespresso. So when I remember that I first bought a Nespresso machine years and years and years ago, we went to Selfridges and bought some pods and it was lovely.

We were, you know, having a shopping day out, I picked a load of pods. All right. but it's not practical because we go to a supermarket or we do a food delivery like so to not be able to get like it's lovely as an experience but actually on the day to day that doesn't work for me and my life and you know so to say yeah that's lovely that you're offering an experience and exclusivity and an event of buying a product that might work for you know, something that isn't meant to be in a daily essential almost, you know, I have already had one of my drinks already this morning and I'll have two or three coffees a day and therefore we go through the pods fairly quickly because of the fact that I'm drinking them.

I can't guarantee that I'm going to have a special occasion out to go to an espresso shop. So the fact that you not only, and really, you know, everything you've done in this industry was genius. Like it was genius because, because you looked at it a different way because you weren't in it and you weren't sort of, you know, no one had probably questioned or they hadn't been allowed to question why they did it that way.

And you came in and went. Or why can't I get it in a supermarket? And why can't it be this? And why shouldn't it look like this? And why shouldn't, you know, and I think thinking as a consumer is a really good place to come from. If I'm the customer, what would I want? Well, I don't want to have to go and do a special shopping trip just to get coffee because what I'm going to do is I'm going to run out and Oh, well, we'll have to have a alternative.

So. I want to kind of bring it up to more modern day. This wasn't like back in the whatever century.

Peter: It feels like that in some ways.

Teresa: I want to bring it more to the challenges of today, because you are in what I now assume is a very competitive market because now you can get coffee pods everywhere and every man and his dog are doing them and supermarket owned brands and Starbucks have got them in there.

And how do you stand out from the crowd to make this work for you.

Peter: It's a challenge. And I think markets have all categories of all consumers evolve. I think, you know, when we first started in Nespresso, it was quite an exclusive product. I mean, spending a hundred pounds on a coffee machine. When we, when we first started, like who does that only wealthy people do that.

Coffee has come on in leaps and bounds that people like, Oh, it's only a hundred pounds. So, and you know, people wouldn't have used them as, as frequently, I think, as they use them now. And maybe the acceptability has changed that. But I think what was happening to the category industry was becoming more widespread.

People were looking for quality coffee at home. So there was tweaking up and the Nespresso is. I'll give you the best platform for high quality copy at home for the skill needed compared to actually trying to do that manually yourself is pretty impressive. And I suppose if we reflect back, we were kind of going, well, we want to champion the consumer.

We want to give them ultimately we were like, people should be, should be able to buy their favorite coffees where they shop and use whatever equipment they want. Yeah. That was the vision. And so we imagined. All these shelves and supermarkets would be all, all, all, all the brands and affects me, a pod would almost become like a can or a bottle.

It was just the delivery mechanism. Just like we don't go on about, Oh, this beer comes in a can. Isn't that special? It's just the delivery. It's like a bottle, whatever it is. So we kind of saw that as a vision and it happens. And now what we, and I suppose this is where our naive experience is that. You know, often, and you see this as smaller up and coming categories is the bigger guys will kind of not really play for ages.

I want, they see some things happening. They'll be like, ah, now it's worth our while. And they'll come in and, as a small brand, it's, it's very easy to get trampled and, and, and just the budgets and the marketing spend and the support. It's just to really build it within supermarkets is very, very, very challenging.

That's why there's so few small brands because it just is a very challenging place. So we've had to evolve our vision for the business for want of a better word. And I think Sometimes being in the industry for a while, then giving you some insight, you might come in at a particular angle. And then once you've observed the customer for years and years and years and got feedback, the problem that you ultimately came in to solve and you realize, okay, that's being sold, but actually I'm observing a bigger problem.

And for me, the, the bigger opportunity and challenge that is there to be solved is the fact that pods were allowing people to make coffee at home. Why aren't people making coffee in general at home? And I think this really opened up this question about how do we get more people to bring coffee now? And that's really the bigger question for me.

Pods are a good start and a good entry point. But I think often, and you see it more now, is that The show up to COVID is people might have a machine and they go, I really enjoy this, but I want to take it up another level, but they give them a good access points. And then they go, maybe I'll buy this machine.

Maybe I'll buy that. I really want to get into it. And I think that's really now as a business where we are focusing is that broader coffee at home experience. How do we get, how do we get people brewing in whatever shape? How do we just, how do we enable people make coffee at home and enjoy coffee as much as those of us who drink coffee at home and how it makes our day.

How do we, how do we get them? How do we get others sharing in that? You know, especially people, you know, there's tons of people buying coffee up and down the high street, but they'll never dream of making a coffee at home. Well, why not? And that's our bigger challenge and opportunity for us as well.

Teresa: Yeah. And I was just, as I was sat here listening to you, obviously I can't help it.

My marketing brain starts going, Oh, this is interesting. How do it is? And I am a perfect consumer for you. So we've had our Nespresso machine for years and years and years and years. And about two years ago, probably maybe a bit more, my husband said, we should get a proper coffee maker. Like, you know, make the grind.

Peter: I'm ready. I'm ready.

Teresa: Right. Do you know, what's so funny about this? He doesn't drink coffee, right? I drink the coffee. He drinks tea. But for some reason, whether it was aspirational, whether it was like some of our friends, our friends are American. So. They're a bit ahead of us on things. So both of our American friends that we stay with, they both have coffee grind making machines where they do it all themselves.

So he was like, we need to get one of these, right? Cause that would be nice. And I'm like, it's a huge amount of money. Cause he's like, would you like one? I'll buy you one for your birthday or Christmas. I'm like, it's a massive amount of money. And I, my coffee pods do me fine. I'm great. However, in recent weeks, I've been thinking more and more and more about it.

And actually, you know, and I. Obviously have a personal brand and I share a lot on Instagram and I'm like, it'd be nice if I could do videos of me making coffee and that would be cool. But I tell you what stops me aside from the cost, cause it's a lot of money, but I would invest in something like that.

That doesn't bother me so much the knowledge. Okay. And I was just sat here thinking about what I would do if I was your brand. And please, I apologize for this unwelcomed advice. I'm about to give you, which you may already be doing. Do you know Freddie flowers, the brand.

Peter: Yes, I do.

Teresa: So great brands, really good service.

One of the things that they were able to do for me as the consumer was teach me how to make that bouquet look beautiful. So if, for those of you who don't know Freddy Flowers, it's a UK based, I think it's just UK based company. And basically they send you flowers that aren't yet open and they give you a video instruction, a booklet instruction of what the flowers are.

So I've learned loads of flower names since I've had them, what the flowers are. how to put them in the vase, how to treat them, how to look after them. And, and it was more around, for me, it was less about the flowers and more around the education piece. And that's what stops him buying a coffee machine.

The education piece. How do I make that good coffee

Peter: right now? It's very difficult. Extremely difficult. And actually you've hit the nail on the head and, and, and yes, like this is something we think about a lot and talk about and are trying to action because in a way the greatest vowels and we know them very well.

They've done an incredible job. There's almost a similarity between a care and that example in terms of we've allowed you to add additional value. So the value proposition isn't just flowers, you've actually added something in and you've also gained. So the value is not, you've actually become more knowledgeable about flowers.

You become more knowledgeable about arrangements. Yeah. So, so, so there was a connection there and, and, and empowerment and, and, and, and, and Our mission, and it has been for the last couple of years, we articulated that we want to empower people to make great coffee. That is the essence of it. And how do you empower people?

The right knowledge, the right training, the right equipment, the right product. Those four things. Yeah. Teach a man to fish kind of thing, and, and exactly. I think that's probably the number one blockage to people in the UK brewing coffee and watching, how the hell do I do this?

Teresa: Yeah. And watching my friend, my, my mom friend who's not long, got a machine in Nashville, we've been at a few times since she's got it and.

she, the first time she's got it, she's like, I don't know how to use this thing. And I'm, and it's awkward and it's uncomfortable, but I'm learning. And then, and then she'll still do what she thinks she needs to do and it won't come out right. And so it's like, if you could either create content around, this is how you make your perfect coffee.

This is the troubleshooting things. There's a great, and I'm literally, I'm now going into advice mode, which is not what you're on here for. If you haven't read the book called they ask you answer by Marcus Sheridan, he came on the podcast years ago now. It's a great book about content marketing for product brands.

And he will not just product brands, just brands in general, but he gives the example of an, and I'm going to link to it in the show notes or get Becci to link to it in the show notes to go back and listen to that episode if you're listening to this, but basically he had a company that sold. cheaper swimming pools.

So it was like, I don't know what it was made out of. I can't remember, but he came into this company and the company was failing dismally. And it was like, it's not going to work. No one's buying. They all want this better quality thing. And he just started making content education, empowering content of this is what is the difference between this and this, like really non biased.

So if you buy this type of swimming pool, this is what you get from it. If you buy a swimming pool like ours, this is what you get for it. This is the reason for and the reason against so that they could educate. So when people were Googling, how do I make coffee or how does a coffee machine work?

That even though you're not selling the coffee machines, It's the education piece. So then when they try coffee, well, who are they going to try coffee with? They're going to try it with you. But if you haven't read that book, you know.

Peter: I'm an avid reader. So I'll definitely add it to my list.

Teresa: I think for your business would be a game changer potentially.

Peter: And, and, and we host probably once a month, something called a brew along. So we'll invite you to the next one. And actually. It's, it's, it's, it's our initial attempt at trying to unpick this big challenge. So effectively what I do is I host in my own kitchen each time it's a different piece of brewing equipment.

So then people effectively dial in from their kitchens and we kind of do a live walkthrough.

Teresa: I love it.

Peter: And people can ask questions and I can, I think we teach you how to make. Yeah. Or some of the, the cheats or the basics to how do you make a great coffee with what you've got, whether it's a cafetière or a French press or whatever it is.

Yeah. We'll know in the next brew along with that.

Teresa: Please do. I would love to come along to that. Cause I am pretty obsessive about my coffee and, and just to the point where I've got it to the point where I don't want to Starbucks, like, I like the way my coffee is and I like the way I make it and therefore I'd much rather have one at home.

So yeah, Peter, it's been so good having you on really, really good. I apologize for the unsolicited advice.

Peter: It's anytime, anytime I do it all the time. Anyway.

Teresa: It's been great having you on.

Peter: Thank you.

Teresa: And like I said, I think if you're listening to this, there is some really key messages around the clarity, the excitement, not making your customers work too hard and, and just thinking how hard can something be and just going for it because you did it and look where you are. It's amazing. So, Peter thank you so much for being a guest on the podcast.

Peter: It's a pleasure. Thanks for the invite.