In this exclusive series I interview five distinguished entrepreneurs, courtesy of Channel 4 Ventures, starting with the incredible Nikki Wicks, CEO of The Body Coach.
He shares fascinating insights on the evolution of their business, their content strategies, the shift to mobile app development, and the challenges and opportunities in separating a personal brand from the business. Ideal for small business owners, course creators, membership owners, and coaches looking to understand the dynamics of scaling a business and attracting investment, this episode highlights the importance of investment when scaling a business. Full of practical tips and inspiring stories, you’re going to love it!
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Transcript
Teresa:
Hello and a really warm welcome back to this week’s episode of the Your Dream Business Podcast. And this week I have something very special for you. You see, we’re not just doing one episode like [00:01:00] normal. We’re actually doing. Five, which I know sounds a bit crazy, but I have a super special podcast series that we’re doing for this week only.
You see some time ago, I was invited by channel four to go to their offices in London because they were having an event alongside other media sort of business outlets and leaders in business. amazingly got invited along to go and see what they were doing. And as part of this, I have put together a special series of podcast episodes.
As part of this event, they had four really amazing entrepreneurs come along and talk about various things. And I was given access to these entrepreneurs and the ability to interview them for the podcast. So this is going to be really, really cool because I have got some people who are coming up that you will probably recognize their [00:02:00] business names, if not their names.
For those of you who are not in the UK, Channel 4 is one of our main channels. So like the BBC, you’d probably know about that if you’re not in the UK. Channel 4 is one of those channels. So it’s, you know, one of the first four channels that we UK. So it’s quite a big deal from my point of view to be part of this.
But basically, Channel 4 has an arm of their business called Channel 4 Ventures and it’s an investment team within Channel 4 that specializes in media for equity, where high growth, unprofitable startups exchange shares, i. e. equity in their business for Channel 4’s advertising space. So if you want some investment in your business rather than getting money, you can do that.
You will get advertising and Channel 4 would get a, you know, part of your business. They would get a section of your equity. Channel 4 Ventures has completed over 50 deals backing companies such as What3Words, Oddbox, Purple Bricks, [00:03:00] Crowdcube, and Pinterest. So the reason I was invited is because Channel 4 Ventures did some research about who was most likely to get given investment in their business.
And I know this is going to surprise you all, but it was mostly well educated white men. And they basically did this research, which didn’t really come as a surprise to anyone in the room and the entrepreneurs that I speak to in this special little series I’ve got here. So basically, um, They profiled hundreds of founders that had secured investment valuing their company at a hundred million or more since 2013.
And the data was based on analysis of founders own disclosure of their race, gender, education, background, employment history, and company base. And this was just some of the data that was found. So 94 [00:04:00] percent of founders were men, despite men representing only 41 percent of all UK graduates, and those founders We’re 51 times more likely to have graduated from an Oxbridge university or it’s us equivalent.
Consumer companies in London, Oxford, and Cambridge are 11 times more likely to have raised valuation of a hundred million plus than companies located anywhere else in the UK. And white university graduates are 10 times more likely to have founded a consumer company with a valuation of a hundred million plus than a black university graduate and nearly twice as likely as an Asian graduate. So like I said, none of these stats, I mean, they are all shocking, but when you think about it, it’s not that shocking to hear in terms of not that shocking from an unexpected point of view. It feels surprisingly, yes, that sounds like what it would be like, although it’s not fair.
It’s not [00:05:00] right. It’s not okay. It does feel like, well, I get it. I get that that’s the case. That’s not a surprise to us. And it’s broke and they need to fix it. So when Channel 4 came to me and spoke to me about doing these podcast episodes, I was a little bit kind of, is this going to fit with my audience?
Obviously you are my audience listening to this and most of my audience, that listen to the podcast are small business owners, lots of online business owners, very female heavy, or people who identify as a female heavy audience. And part of me was like, this really doesn’t fit. Like I’m talking about bigger businesses.
I’m talking about capital investment, media for equity, things that I don’t necessarily understand well enough. But then. I thought about it and I thought, no, that’s the reason I should do it. The reason I should be doing it is because we should be having these conversations in places where they don’t typically happen [00:06:00] in places where you wouldn’t typically hear about it.
And I was being given an opportunity to bring some information to you and in the process, bring some really cool business owners to you. And actually, that’s what I’m going to do. So I am really, really happy about doing this, about bringing a conversation to you that might seem like it’s not one that you’ve thought about.
It certainly wasn’t one that I’ve thought about. I had the conversation, I think, with one of the guests about, you know, I don’t ever see me ever wanting investment in my business because it’s just me. And I, I can’t see why I would need that. However, This type of things, the investment sort of, you know, space has been behind closed doors and in most cases, from my opinion, quite fancy closed doors, so unless you’re a white straight male from Oxford or somewhere like that, then you don’t have these conversations, which is why I thought it was even more important.
to have these [00:07:00] conversations. So Channel 4 gave me the opportunity to speak to some amazing, amazing business owners. And this week I am going to be sharing with you an interview from those five different people. So we have four business owners and then someone who works for Channel 4 who heads up their Channel 4 ventures.
And They were fascinating conversations for so many reasons. There is so much that you’re going to get from this, not only hearing what some incredibly successful business owners have to say about how they became incredibly successful, the drive they have, the way they look at problems, but also you’re going to get an understanding of this may be part of a world that you didn’t know about, or maybe you did, and I’m just kind of bringing it back to you.
The world of capital investment. private equity, all words that I wouldn’t understand a lot about. I know a little bit, but not a lot. So this was as educational to me as hopefully it will be to you. And it [00:08:00] was super inspiring. So like I said, we have some amazing, amazing guests coming out. And today we are kicking off with the super, super lovely Nikki Wicks, CEO and creative director at The Body Coach.
Forward slash Joe Wick’s. Brother, if you have not heard of Nikki or Joe, the Body Coach is a global fitness and wellness company on a mission to make the world fitter, healthier, and happier. Previously, Nikki was a journalist and an editor working across sports, lifestyle, and trade magazines. Prior to joining the Body Coach, Nikki was based in Singapore, where he worked as an editor at Campaign Magazine.
His team, Austin affectionately. Call him the crying CEO and Nicky thinks one day this will make a great title for a biography if he ever writes one. Fun fact, Nicky was an extra in the final Harry Potter movie where he played a snatcher, a member of an organization of bounty hunters formed by [00:09:00] Lord Voldemort, which I’m completely gutted I didn’t read prior to interviewing him, so I wasn’t able to ask him about it, but still, it’s still an amazing episode.
So like I said, This week, you’re going to get an episode every single day, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. I’ve got some incredible business owners, some incredible conversations, and I hope you enjoy them. Let’s get on with the first interview. Nikki, welcome to the podcast. How are you doing?
Nikki:
Hello, morning, Tracy. Yeah, good. Good to see you again. Um, thank you for inviting me.
Teresa:
My pleasure. So I want to be super honest. You said to me before we got started, you don’t often do podcast interviews. So, and I guess this would make sense when we explain who you are and what you do.
So, Can you start off by just explaining to my audience who you are and what you do?
Nikki:
Sure. Yeah. So I’m Nicky, but, um, I’m the CEO of The Body Coach. Um, I guess firstly, actually I’ve done it in the wrong order. I’m Joe Wicks’s brother. You may have [00:10:00] heard of, lots of people have heard of Joe Wicks and, and actually be surprised. Some people scratch their heads when you, when you say The Body Coach, even though they’re, you know, Joe is The Body Coach, but yeah, I’m Joe’s, Joe’s brother first.
CEO, now CEO of The Body Coach, which always feels weird when I say that because it was, yeah, I never thought I’d be CEO of any company, but yeah, here we are.
Teresa:
So that immediately brings up loads of thoughts and questions in terms of How did you get, because like you said, you, you never expect to be a CEO of any company.
So how did you get to come into the company in the first place? Because working with a family member, I have three siblings, two older sisters, one younger brother. I’m not sure I could work with any of them. So working with a family member and then becoming CEO, how did all that come back? Was it from day one or was it as it grew?
At what point did you kick in?
Nikki:
Yeah. And, and you meant, you know, that concern about working with a family member was a massive thing for me. So [00:11:00] Joe and I are very close. We’ve always been close. We’re, we’re close in age. There’s 18 months between us. You know, my, my mom had us very young. She was 17 when she had me.
And I think she was just 18, just no, maybe just 19 by the time she had Joe. So very, very close as siblings. And I was working as a magazine editor and journalist for about seven years. And when Joe asked me to come back and, and help him, I said no, pretty much straight away. And was like, look, don’t think that’s a good idea.
You never, you never hear many happy stories about family members working together. And I just was very worried that it was gonna affect our relationship. So for about three months, I kind of resisted the idea of coming back and, and working with him. So, yeah, that was a thing. But no, to answer your question, so, um, Joe and I, we’re living together.
So the body coach has been going for 12 years this year. So 2012. And I, I won’t go the, the short version of the story. And Joe started out as a, you [00:12:00] know, a personal trainer doing bootcamps in the park. And that was in 2012. We were living together at the time. Um, and I was working as a journalist on the London Olympics.
So had an 2012 was an amazing summer. I always looked back at, with such good memories, having a chance to work on the official magazines and programs for London 2012. And Joe started at this boot camp in Richmond then I was living with him. Yeah, it was sort of, you know, in those very early days, it was, I think all the family at some point was out helping him do some flyering.
We were all kind of, called it, called to do a shift, handing flyers through doors to try and get him, you know, more people sort of coming to his boot camp. And so then I carried on with my career, he started out, and then Yeah, I think it was 2015 when he’d started to get a quid, got a bit bigger following on social media.
And, you know, he sort of said, look, I think this is, he started getting some traction and really wanted to sort of, you know, give it a go and try and, you know, his pitch to me was come and help me get more people moving and more people, you know, I really think we can use social media and people seem to be connecting [00:13:00] with my message that he was putting out.
And yeah, so I, I eventually came back, I was living in Singapore and I decided to come and, you know, see if I could help him out. Yeah. Cool.
Teresa:
What were you doing in the early days? Like what was, because I guess a lot of his business at that point was social media, like huge amount of content creation. So, and obviously that is a hard thing for someone else to get involved with, especially when it has to be his face.
So was there a natural kind of fit for you to come in and go, this is my skill set. This is where I could be a great asset.
Nikki:
Yeah, a hundred, a hundred percent. Like I, you know, I was very clear that I said, look, I, I, um, I think I can help you with a certain part of, you know, what you’re, what you’re trying to do and it was content and the media, I guess I, you know, having worked as a journalist, I’d, you know, I’d originally wanted to work in magazines.
I still love magazines now. Like I still love print. Even, uh, you know, during my career as a journalist like print was starting to struggle and, you [00:14:00] know, it’s moving more digital. So a lot of the work I had done, you know, before coming back to Joe was sort of, you know, content, building community, engagement, and really kind of like, I’d say, yeah, it was very kind of content.
That was my expertise, really. You’d now call it content. I mean, I was a journalist and a writer and an editor, but that was becoming more and more digital and social. So, you know, Twitter was a huge in, you know, in the early and still is for, for journalists and for media companies, I’d started doing more video over some of the projects I was working on.
So there was a real, like natural, my skillset was very much in, Content, creative, I suppose, like ideas of how do you engage people and when I, when I originally came back, my role was, yeah, as head of content was the role that we sort of loosely gave myself. But it was very much like, let’s launch a YouTube channel, let’s do more video content on social and it was always about how do we reach more people [00:15:00] and how do we get more people moving or cooking healthy food.
You know, and Joe had already started the Lean in 15 videos at this point. He was, he was well into that, but I guess we really just doubled down on, when I look back now, I think we really kind of doubled down on like content and engaging and building community. And it’s still 90 percent of what, of our business now, I would say.
Teresa:
Joe kind of got the dream, right? I think I work in an industry full of online business owners, so loads of people who have courses and memberships and coaching, and they are super skilled and passionate at the thing they do. Like Joe, you know, they have a service that maybe they offer one to one or maybe they do done for you staff.
And then they want to move into the one to many, which is exactly what, what Joe’s done. And, and really to look at his business. And as I think I mentioned to you, when we met that him and I spoke at the same event and I met him, which was lovely, like he’s the dream, like he’s the, his business is like, Oh my God, if only our businesses could be as big as [00:16:00] his.
Was there something like, was there something you look back on now and think that’s what caused that? Or is there something, would you view it very differently now doing it? Do you think that success would, I’ve asked you two completely different questions there, so let’s start with there. Is there something that you look back on that think that’s what caused it?
Nikki:
Yeah, I mean, Joe gets asked that a lot over the years and I, and I, and I can’t even think what his answer is to that question. I was there a moment or was there a thing? I think now, like, you know, 12 years into the journey, I think, Joe’s, I, I, this is just my opinion, my view is that Joe, Joe’s superpower I think is his ability to connect with people like he, and, and whether that’s on, in, in real life, face to face or over digital platforms.
I think he’s, you know, he’s, he’s, he’s got a natural, very natural way of connecting and he has a lot of empathy and compassion for, for people. And I think [00:17:00] he, he genuinely cares about. everyone. And I think he cares about people a lot. And I think, you know, without going into sort of too much sort of, I don’t want to turn it into a therapy session, but I think both of us recently have been on a bit of a journey and sort of learned, I guess, a bit more about our past and why we have that sort of, you know, You know, drive to help people.
And I think that was always Joe’s drive. And I think that’s, he, he, he’s somehow been able to translate that from being in a room with someone in a park to doing it via, you know, social media. So I think Joe’s superpower is, is, is his ability to connect with all different people and, you know, from preschool kids in nurseries, when we do our schools tours, all the way to.
You know, two weeks ago he was in an, in an old, in a, in a care home with a hundred year olds and 95 year olds who were doing his workouts. And he seems to be able to connect and inspire. that extremity of sort of [00:18:00] different types of people. So I think that’s what he’s, you know, I think that’s what his superpower is.
I think the other part of your question, I think you’re asking about, and I think is about, you know, and I think timing is a really important part of Joe’s story. And I don’t think he, you know, I’ve said this recently, and we’ve talked about it ourselves. I think if we were to start today, And Joe was to start his journey today and do exactly what he did step by step, exactly the same.
I don’t think we would be building the same thing we’ve built now. I think he was there at the right time. Social media was way less busy at that time. And it’s much noisier now and cutting through is really hard. And we are having our own kind of challenges with the algorithms changing, the amount of content, cutting through is a lot harder.
Yeah. So, I think that Joe would have been really successful in [00:19:00] anything that he would have done. I think his superpower would have made him successful in whatever he chose to do. But I do think that certainly, you know, social media was It was the right time. And, and there was a time, you know, and I think timing is a factor that is important, right, in, in, in life, in, in many aspects.
And I think it’s, yeah, I, I, I don’t think that we could start again today and have the same impact that we’ve had.
Teresa:
And I’m really, I’m really happy, sounds the wrong word, but I’m grateful for your honesty in that because I think sometimes we just think that. we can see someone do something and we can replicate it.
And I’m sure over the years, you must have seen a ton of people trying to replicate what Joe does, but they’re not in being authentic to them. Whereas that’s the one thing you were saying that Joe showed up really authentically as he is, and that is his superpower. So it wasn’t like he was putting it on.
It wasn’t like he was creating a character for this. He genuinely cared. I [00:20:00] think the other thing that’s to watch the, you know, him as a brand from afar is like, He’s very unthreatening if that’s the right word, I don’t know how you quite to say it but like when it comes to something like fitness and health and nutrition it’s a very contentious issue and he comes with no kind of like, there’s no you know, do it my way I’m the right way like he’s really gentle and empathetic with it, which feels really nice.
So I think one, like you said, it was his superpower to show up the way he shows up and people resonated that, which is brilliant. But also he got in at a really cool time where it was easier, you know, than maybe it is now. So let’s talk about obviously one of the reasons very gratefully we’re here and having a conversation is because we both met at the Channel 4, Channel 4 Ventures pro, not program, what’s the word I’m looking for, event that they did, that’s the word.
And one of the things that we were talking about and that they were talking about is obviously people getting some investment, whether it be capital investment, whether it be, [00:21:00] you know, private equity, whatever it might be. and growing their business. And this is something that you guys never did. And am I right in saying you haven’t done to date?
You still don’t do?
Nikki:
Yeah, we, yeah, the, the business has never raised any, any, any funding. No.
Teresa:
So was that a conscious decision? Did you not need to, did you ever think and try, like, did it even come into the conversation as you were growing?
Nikki:
Yeah. I mean, honestly, it was never a conversation. And I suppose it goes back to You know what I, when I, when I said I’m about being a CEO, like, I feel like this whole business is, it’s not been an accident, but it certainly wasn’t a plan.
Like we never sat down. There’s never been a conversation, you know, to build this, to build a company or to build, you know, a business. It was so organic, like all of, you know, Joe’s, you know, social media following was very organic and it [00:22:00] took a really long time. I mean, it, and. Even now, like I think we, you know, for 10 years we didn’t do any sort of, you know, paid advertising.
It was all, it was all organic. We we’re starting to shift now because social media and organic reach is, is really, really hard. So we are having to sort of unlock new channels now that traditionally most businesses would do, you know, at the start. So, but it was just never a thing. And, you know, we’re very, very lucky and very, and very fortunate there.
We haven’t had to raise money. So it was all, you know, the business was always profitable. It was very lean for a long time. There was a big shift. The biggest shift is when we built our app. That was, you know, going from PDF business, which was, which was the product for a long time, was a PDF and we then, you know, decided to invest and build an app and that was a big decision that really changed the path.
And to be honest, I don’t think either of us really understood what was going to happen once [00:23:00] we built an app. So the reason we wanted to build an app was because We had a great product that lots of people had used and signed up to and it was really effective, but we knew that, you know, it was a limited.
It was, it was limited in what we could do. A PDF is very static and it wasn’t very engaging. So building the app was a, the problem we were trying to solve was, can we make this better? Like, can we, can we make this experience and this product easier, better for people that are buying it? And we knew that, you know, technology or that an app was going to allow us to do that.
What we didn’t really consider properly was what it was going to mean long term in terms of building a team that could then run that. So we worked with an agency. An amazing agency called us to who built our app. We built it. We launched it. It was all great. We got an app. And then we were like, Oh, now what do we do?
And it was like, well, for a long time, for about a year, the [00:24:00] agency ran the app live because we had no one, me and Joe are not technologists, right? And we had no expertise. And so we then had to, we realized it wasn’t sustainable to, to, to run it with the agency because it was just too expensive to, to be frank.
So we’re like, okay, we need to bring this in house. And that’s when we started hiring and building the team. And we’re now, you know, we’re 32 people now and we are, and along that, with that journey has come things like, yeah, building a proper company infrastructure, because for a long time it was kind of a very small family business and we didn’t need lots of people and we didn’t need, you know, so.
It has been very organic and at no point did we ever kind of need to raise money to keep it going. We, you know, we’ve been able to fund it ourselves. Where we are now today is we’re asking ourselves a question, which is we’ve been growing very organically for 12 years. And [00:25:00] organic growth was, we wrote this wave of amazing social, organic, uh, reach and growth and acquisition and engagement that’s now going the other way.
So we’re like, how do we, how do we counter that? So what we need, our challenges of business is like, you know, reaching people in, in new ways and that costs money. So we’re now going, do we, if we really wanted to give this a really big like push and. Then we would probably would require, well, you know, the question we’ve been asking is like, do we need investment for that?
And so that’s where we’re kind of at. And we were sort of in the middle of figuring that out, really, as we, as we speak. So,
Teresa:
yeah. And that kind of leans into some of the other thoughts and questions I had as you were talking lights. So I think what’s interesting is, The people that I’ve interviewed for this series, one of the things that they did is they knew fairly quick on that they would need some investment.
They knew, but also interestingly enough, they weren’t [00:26:00] personal brands, whereas Joe was a personal brand. So he built and has built. And the interesting at the beginning, you said the body coach, a. k. a. Joe Wicks, because people know Joe they still don’t necessarily are putting two and two together, or they know his name and not the body code.
I guess when it’s a personal brand it’s very different because, and my, my question I was thinking of asking is, is what’s the vision for the business? Because. I remember someone saying, so Michael Hyatt, who is a big New York Times bestselling author, deals a lot in personal brand stuff and in online businesses.
He was saying to me that if you want to build a brand quick, you do it a personal brand. If you want to longevity, you make it a company. So how does that look for you? Because this is all, and you’ve already said you are behind the scenes, man. You are not the person who’s in the camera. You’re not jumping around, doing exercises and all that jazz.
Well, you might be in your own time, but you’re not being filmed. So like. What does that mean? Because if [00:27:00] you wanted it to be massive and therefore you’re going to go and get some investment to help you do that, then surely at some point, in my mind anyway, you have to start pulling Joe back, because if something was to, if Joe decided tomorrow, let’s not think of worst case scenario, if Joe decided tomorrow, do you know what, I am done, I don’t want to be in the limelight anymore, I don’t want to be the face, Potentially, it’s all leaning and resting on that.
So yeah. What are your thoughts? Have you thought about that? Do you, is it something that you’ve talked about?
Nikki:
Yeah. You, you, you, you must be, you must be a mind reader or there’s no, I mean, what you’re talking about is, you know, probably our biggest challenge and opportunity. I think, you know, we as a brand, as a business have to, you know, two challenges really.
One is, you know, how do we grow when the way, the only way we know how to grow. Has become, it’s becoming harder and harder, i. e., you know, through social and organic and, and [00:28:00] community and engagement, which, yeah, so I’ve mentioned that a few times now. Challenge number one, how do we grow? Um, and then challenge number two is really, you know, it’s, it’s the legacy, um, question, which is, you know, what happens when Joe stops for any reason, right?
Like, and the, the chat, to add a little additional layer of complex, complexity to that, um, It’s like Joe’s role is so physical and like physically demanding like and we’re really lucky that he’s so fit and healthy But he had an injury at the start of the year he had a shoulder injury and we had to He couldn’t film workouts and content.
Now, I think we’ve, we’ve been talking about this for, I don’t know, two or three years, right? This looming question of like, what happens when Joe stops? And we’re very self aware that, you know, relevance is, is really, is a thing when your personality led, you know, it’s really hard. In any industry, I think when you’re, when you’re the face of something, whether you’re an [00:29:00] actor or a musician or to stay relevant for, you know, 10 years, 20 years, whatever, it’s really tough.
Obviously, lots of amazing people do have really long, long careers. It’s not easy. So that is one of the big questions we ask ourselves and we’ve started to do it in little ways, but how do, how, how do we make the body coach as famous as Joe Wicks? And how does in 10 years from now, can we look at the dream is that in 10 years, 15 years, however long the body coach still exists as a place that people can come and it feels accessible and it feels like an option for fitness and wellness and nutrition.
And, and Joe doesn’t have to be. So, yeah, Joe’s not the, the, the driving force behind it and, and it’s a big challenge. I think it’s an exciting one and we’ve started to, you know, for example, we’ve just launched a new [00:30:00] podcast and we’ve called it the Body Coach Podcast. The other thing that works in our, I guess, you know, all of our channels.
Uh, you know, YouTube channel is called the body coach TV. Joe’s Instagram is called the body, all of our channels. And that, that wasn’t even on purpose. Right. Joe set these up 10 years ago, but we do have this other brand and it’s a really, really bad example. Maybe it’s a bad example. I don’t know. It’s my, it’s my example anyway.
And I think it’s, you know, one of many perhaps, but I use this as my like. North star of, of like, you know, Richard Branson and Virgin, right? Exactly the same. I was just thinking about him. And it, and I, and I’m not comparing Virgin to the body coach or Joe to Richard Branson by any means. But it’s a great example.
I think so. For me, it may, you know, it is a good example. I’ve, I’ve followed the Virgin story and I’ve read all that. And I think there is that, you know, iconic British person. [00:31:00] And I think if you, if you rewound and went back many years, probably Virgin and Richard Branson were one in the same. And I kind of say to Joe, how do we get to the point where you see the body coach and it feels like all the things that we care about, the values are there.
And I think Virgin are a really good example. There’s probably other examples, but we’re definitely on that journey and we’re super aware of it. And I think it’s like a three year, I think the next three years. That’s the thing we need to be really mindful of when we make decisions about the business because the truth is When Joe stops, things do slow down.
Teresa:
Yeah, and that makes perfect sense. I think, and like I said, weirdly, I was thinking about Richard Branson at the same time, that he, he has been able to maintain a face in every company he does, but he’s not having to be in the company, which is great. And also, I guess what’s interesting is, [00:32:00] with Virgin is their brand values go through everything they do.
So it’s more about taking the brand values of Joe and him as a personality and going, how can we translate that into a business? How can we make sure that when people. Like the content that Joe gives us all the way Joe shows up that they experience that regardless of whether they’ve got Joe or not, regardless of when they go on the app or when they read the book or when they do, this is the podcast, whether it’s Joe’s voice or someone else’s voice, are we still getting that kind of personal, those personal values through?
The other thing that’s super interesting about a brand, personal brand versus a company, is with a personal brand, there are some people who won’t like Joe and won’t like the way he does things because it’s natural. We don’t like everybody and not everybody likes us. The same with me and my personal brand and I’m really kind of like, strong in the opinion of, I show up authentically and if you like it, great.
If you don’t, [00:33:00] That’s cool. There’s other people who do what I do. So not a worry. So like in one way as well, building that brand name rather than Joe’s name could potentially open you up to a whole load of people that maybe wouldn’t have resonated with him, but resonate with the values and the message and the company.
So I think it’s a super exciting, nerve wracking, interesting, like, I guess it’s got to be just a test and see and try and let’s see what happens, I guess.
Nikki:
Yeah, it’s definitely a big, a big challenge. I’m kind of quite excited about it. I think there’s lots of ways we think about it, you know, from bringing in new trainers and bringing in new people to kind of like be, you know, to, to, to be part of the brand as well.
Or even, even now, like on a, on a lower level. lower sort of level. We work with other people, experts in their field, but, you know, are in our space to around wellness [00:34:00] or, you know, for years, Joe was getting tons of questions around about the menopause and, you know, Joe’s not an expert, but we now work with, you know, some experts who can help us then sort of share that content with our with our audience, but you know, I, it, this isn’t, um, necessarily part of, um, our plan and our strategy, but I said to Joe and the team, right, this, this challenge we’re facing, I think a kind of line in the sand or what, what, how would we know that we’ve achieved, achieved it?
And I always say like, you know, there’ll be a TV ad. In a few years for the body coach and Joe won’t be in it. Yeah. And I’m like, that’s when we know we’ve achieved what we need to achieve. Right. So, and I’m not saying it’ll be a too bad, but that’s my metaphor of Yeah, yeah, yeah. Have we been able to do it, you know?
Teresa:
Yeah. And it, yeah. And you, it would take time without him, you know, can, can it be a viable product without his face on it? And that [00:35:00] is a. big, a big, massive, interesting, terrifying learning curve that you are going to be on. And interesting that potentially, the thought of bringing in some external funding or some support externally from a like investment point of view, I guess.
And, and this is the thing, when I was thinking about who I’d interviewed for this series, you, you know, your, this business is the only business that was a personal brand. And it’s like, well, that makes sense because if I was investor, would I want to put my investment into something that is resting on one person and one person only?
And yes, I know You have a whole infrastructure behind him and you’ll have, you know, your email list and your social following and your, you know, your membership and all of these other things, but still a massive chunk of it is coming off the back of what he’s done. So it’s super, super interesting and it’s fascinating.
Nikki, thank you so much for being on. I really, really enjoyed this conversation and it’s really interesting to hear [00:36:00] someone who is running this type of business. And like I said, I think this type of business in particular will really resonate with my audience because this is what most of them are doing.
They have personal brands, they have online businesses. And like I said, they probably look at someone like Joe and the body coach business as Wow. Like imagine my business getting to that size. So I really, really appreciate this conversation. And I think they’re going to get a lot from it where normally what I ask at this point in the interviews, where you hang out on social media, where we come and find you.
But what’s been fascinating with these interviews that we’re doing is obviously the people I’ve been talking to aren’t personal brands. So I’m guessing that you’re hiding somewhere and therefore you’re They can go and follow the body coach.
Nikki:
Yeah. So, yeah. So, you know, obviously, um, social media is a huge part of our brand.
And I think, you know, we have 11 million followers across our platforms in terms of managing that. So he and Joe are the only people that have access to his [00:37:00] social accounts. That’s Instagram. He, he, he replies to all of his dms. Like even now, like if people message him, he, he’ll probably respond to 50 Voice.
He sends voice notes, sort of, it’s the quickest way for him to respond to people. But personally, I am on social media. I don’t use it that much, but I’m, I do love Link, I love LinkedIn actually. Awesome. I find, you know, I have a good, um, network on LinkedIn where I find there’s, for me, that’s my, probably my break from Instagram.
’cause I’m obviously on it a lot, but I’m on, I’m on the, you know, the, the, the, the, the Body Coach account. So. You can find me on LinkedIn. I’m not super active and I’m certainly not a, someone that shares much. I don’t, I probably don’t share much value, but I am on there and I do think it’s a great place for, to connect with people. Yeah.
Teresa:
Absolutely. Nicki, thank you so much. It’s been a pleasure to have you on the podcast.
Nikki
Thank you. Thanks so much for having me, Teresa.
