In this episode of Your Dream Business Podcast, I interviewed Vicki Handley, an expert in sales copywriting and founder of Quirky Copywriting. This episode dives deep into the art and science of writing compelling sales pages and emails. Vicki shares valuable insights on the differences between general copywriting and sales copy, the psychological foundations of effective sales copy, and the importance of specificity and urgency. We discussed how to identify core problems from symptoms, create compelling promises, and the nuances of evergreen versus launch-based sales strategies. Vicki emphasizes the need for ongoing testing and adjustments to improve sales efficacy. If you’re an online business owner looking to boost your sales copy, this episode is packed with actionable strategies and expert advice.
KEY TAKEAWAYS COVERED IN THE PODCAST
- Know the Difference: Understanding the distinction between general copy and sales copy is essential for creating content that converts.
- Psychology Matters: Leveraging psychological principles like urgency and specificity can significantly boost the effectiveness of your sales pages and emails.
- Test and Improve: Continuously testing and refining your copy is key to enhancing sales performance over time.
If you enjoyed this episode then please feel free to go and share it on your social media or head over to Apple podcasts or Spotify and give me a review, I would be so very grateful.
LINKS TO RESOURCES MENTIONED IN TODAY’S EPISODE
Connect with Vicki Handley on LinkedIn, Instagram or Website, Ultimate Structure
Connect with Teresa on Website, (Grow, Launch, Sell), Sign up to Teresa’s email list, Instagram, LinkedIn, or Facebook
Transcript
Teresa: If you’ve ever tried to write a sales page or sales emails, you will know that there is a. Real art and science to it. And in today’s episode of the podcast, I interview an absolute genius when it comes to writing sales pages. This episode is filled with so much gold and so many amazing light bulb moments that if you have something to sell online and you want to write an email or a sales page.
This is not to be missed.
Hello and welcome back to another episode of Your Dream Business podcast. I’m diving straight in with today’s episode because honestly, when I say this episode is gold. I don’t say that lightly. I need to tell you a little bit of a story about today’s guest. So today’s guest is the lovely Vicki Handley, and she’s talking to us all about sales pages and copy for sales pages.
Now Vicki is in my world. She joined my Grow launch sale program and we did a visibility challenge. And part of that visibility challenge is that I encourage people to get on podcasts, to put themselves out there to become the expert and. Vicki asked If she could come on my podcast, and I said, yes. [00:02:00] I would love to have that conversation on my podcast.
I am so flipping grateful. I did because this conversation. Within the first like five, 10 minutes, I am scribbling notes, after notes, after notes. I have to go back there and re-listen to the whole podcast again because there was so much good stuff that she talked about in terms of what sales copy is and what it isn’t and all the different things that you can do.
So before we jump into what she covers, let me just take a minute to actually introduce who Vicki is. Vicky is, uh, the head of copier, her agency quirky copywriting. She’s a marketer who specializes in sales copy and evergreen sales are her forte with her most popular offer. Actually, name Evergreen helps you sell seamlessly behind the scenes with researched, written, and refined email sequences, removing the need for endless launches.
Vicki has worked with hundreds of business owners helping them refine their copy so that they can actually get sales through [00:03:00] it. So this conversation is very much aimed at the fact that sales copy and copy copy is very different. When I say copy, copy, I mean people can write copy for blogs, for social media posts, for things like that.
When I’m talking about sales copy, I’m talking about sales pages, sales emails, and in this podcast we talk. All things sales copy. She talks about the fact that sales copy actually isn’t that creative. It’s very formulaic. It’s based on psychology and it’s basically trying to give people without doubt absolute certainty whether something is for them or not.
She has a great analogy that it’s like going into a courtroom. She also talks about. The things that people are missing in sales pages and what some of those things should be and how we need to get really specific and really certain around who it is we’re speaking to. She talks about the fact of sometimes we just try and keep it quite broad ’cause we don’t wanna put someone off or we don’t want to miss someone out.
But in doing [00:04:00] that, we actually struggle to sell the thing anyway. She shares a phrase with us that is something she calls twisting the knife, and it sounds really awful, but actually it’s really important when you’re doing a sales page. Basically as she was going through all of these things that in the first kind of first 10, 15 minutes, I was literally just writing question after question after question after question.
Like I said, I have not written this many notes in a long time, and I just had all the questions to ask her. What’s the difference between a sales page and sales emails? How do you add that urgency, which she says is so important for a sales page. What’s the difference between selling something to, to get someone to buy as opposed to get someone on a call?
We talk about so much. If you are selling something online, which I’m assuming you are ’cause you’re listening to the podcast, this is gold for you. Also, I want you to do me a favor because this is such an amazing episode. And Vicki works so hard to bring you such a cool episode. I would love you to share this for, [00:05:00] for both me and Vicki.
I would love you to share this with a business friend that maybe is selling something online. Share it on your social media. If you have a business following and, get some of this stuff out to people because actually I see people create products and services online and then they don’t sell, and it’s heartbreaking and so disheartening, and actually so much of what Vicki says today is gonna help you sell those things online.
So without further ado, here is the amazing Vicki. Vicki, welcome to the podcast. Thank you for having me. I’m so excited. I am excited to talk about our subject because, well, I’m just gonna dive straight in and go. Tell me why sales copy is different to someone writing normal copy.
Vicki: Sales copy is very different to normal copy because I think even copywriters fear it because you are.
Demonstrating your ROI, it’s really easy. It’s really easy to see if it’s working or not. It’s clearly visible and it’s clearly tied to, uh, [00:06:00] either a financial figure or the number of call bookings, et cetera, and that people are like generating as a result of your work. I personally see it as a challenge.
I like to work out what works and also it’s, it’s not. Creative sales copy. That might sound a bit weird coming from a copywriter, but it’s very formulaic. It’s very structured. It’s, it’s very much based on your ideal client’s psychology and persuasion, and ultimately it’s spin. It’s laying out all those cards on the table, but it’s, yeah, I often refer to it as courtroom, like closing arguments in a court.
I come from a legal background, so that’s why I kind of use that as an, and I’m also a big. Crime series fan. So it’s the bit at the end of the trial where all the evidence has been presented, they then step up and they state the most powerful aspects of their case to the jury. Full certainty, no space for doubt.
This is how things went down. Advocate for either my client being guilty or innocent. And that’s co obviously, by or not by in this case. So it, it’s very, very different and it’s. It requires a lot of [00:07:00] groundwork to have been done before you get to that point as well. So there’s a space for other copy and content and all the rest of, there’s all sorts of things aren’t there that people need to be putting out there into the world.
But this is the final, this is the big guns. Everything’s laid out on the table, and this is the thing that actually gets them to act, um, inspires the action in your audience. And if it doesn’t do that, it’s a fail, I’m afraid.
Teresa: I love that. I feel like I could just end it now. Thank you, Vicki. Goodbye. Like You’re welcome.
Honestly, that was brilliant. That was such a good, strong argument for copy, for sales, copy over copy. And I think I have been in this industry a long time, about 11 years now. Uh, my business for 11 years, I’ve been in this online space for about eight, nine, and if not a bit more. And, and lots of copywriters don’t get sales copy.
Like one of the thing about sales copy is we’re taking them on a journey, but it’s. How is that differing to, I think the reason I bring up the journey thing is I think lots of people, lots of copywriters understand the taking a customer on [00:08:00] a journey, but they’re not converting them or they’re not being direct enough with the journey.
So what, what are they missing or what are people missing where they’re like, ’cause it is a journey, but how does it differ?
Vicki: So. When I’m writing sales copy, I focus heavily on specifics. Mm-hmm. I think if you’re trying to do like a lot of things that I see, I’ve seen a lot of bad sales pages in my time, and I like to focus really hard on the problem that they’re solving, and I think that that’s, that’s often a missing piece.
They talk about the generalities, but they don’t talk about the specific problem, the specific pain point, the specific challenge that is. Well, it’s, I’ve never said specific so much, but it’s specific to that particular target client. Yeah. So there’s, there’s the target, the individual, like the one person that you are talking to is the first thing.
I think a lot of, um, copywriters and people writing their own copy try to appeal a little bit to everybody so that they’ve, they like hedging their bets, like someone’s gonna respond to this for actually that data that you, you. Gathered in order to write that, um, sales page and the [00:09:00] specifics of the problem and the needs, wants and expectations of that individual is really, really important for kind of creating your case.
You also need to, I, I call it twisting the knife. That bit, it’s a little bit, focusing a little bit on the, the pain and the challenge that they’re experiencing, but then the next part. Is focusing on the opportunities that that brings. That’s kind of bringing desire into that forefront. And what you’re doing with, with sales copy, whether it’s an email sequence, whether it’s a sales, um, page, whatever is, you are kind of amplifying that journey and you are really, really focusing in on the specifics so that they feel seen, they feel understood, and they feel called out. as well
Because a lot of the times when people convert, it’s because they’re like, oh my God, that’s me. That is literally me. Yeah. And the social proof that you’re using later, oh my God, that’s me. That’s where I am now. And this person is like me. So I can see the progression, I can see how things have changed for them in a short period.
And the other thing that’s often missing is the why now. Like why should they do something now versus six months time when things are worse? So another thing that I love to [00:10:00] do is to make sure that you call out the cost of inaction. And you’re, what, what you’re doing with your sales page is, like I said before, is you’re bringing out those big guns.
You’re making sure that all your bases are covered and you are engineering that social proof that you have. ’cause that’s another thing, social proof, credibility, signals, why you are the only logical choice. All these factors work together in line with the structure, um, of like building a bridge ultimately from a place of challenge to a place of desire or next level u.
And kind of. Validating the promises that you’re making. Like this is, this is the promise that I’m making. That’s the other mistake that I see as well. People don’t actually make a promise. They don’t actually say, this is what you will get from this program, this service, whatever, because they’re scared of hanging their hat on a result, and that directness, that certainty, that no space for doubt is what sets apart good sales pages from not so good ones.
Teresa: Right, Can you just repeat all that again because I just normally I have my, my remarkable and I take notes, right? And I thought, oh, I didn’t pick it [00:11:00] up, and you just said so much good stuff in there. I feel like at the end of this podcast, I’m gonna have to go back through and listen to this podcast because.
When, when I’m interviewing or when I’m doing an episode with someone, I’m having to actively listen in a very different way as just taking it in so that I know where it’s going next, or I know the conversation that we’re having or what I wanna pull from that one thing rather than actually just going, oh my God, that is so smart.
Okay, so. Uh, I’ve got like a million questions now buzzing around my head.
Vicki: Okay. I love questions.
Teresa: Let’s talk about, oh, what should I talk about first? Hang on. I need to write this thing down because I’m gonna forget you said about sales page or emails. I wanna come back to that. Okay. But I’ll forget. So twisting the knife.
Okay. In my head that feels like, oh, that’s mean. Right. And I think let’s like just talk generally about sales as well. People are like. This is, this is horrible. Sales is horrible, right? [00:12:00] Talk to me, and I’m playing devil’s advocate because actually I get the whole twisting the knife thing, and I think we have to do it more than ever now because people are getting far more.
I, I think looking at all the launches I’m involved with, all the launches I watch, they’re not as successful as they have been, and I think we’re having to go an extra mile. So what do we talk about? Give me a practical example of. If you can think of one off the top of your head, what writing would look like for a particular product or service, and then how twisting the knife would be.
Vicki: Okay. So yeah, so with twisting the knife, I, I view sales a service, so I’ll just, I’ll just step back a little bit first, but I view sales a service. Yeah. If I know that my product, my service, whatever it’s, I’m writing about, or my client’s, um, product or service can help someone, it’s my duty to make the best possible case.
And how I usually do that is, I call it twist the knife. It’s a little bit tongue in cheek, but it’s, it’s basically, it’s basically. Pointing to the problem. I’ll try and think of an [00:13:00] example as I go along, but pointing to that problem and turning it in their mind from a, something that they need to fix, but actually it’s not that urgent to a non-negotiable and something that they actually need to prioritize.
It needs to be something that they deal with now to avoid the consequences of, of not doing it. I’m struggling to think of an example, but I’ll come back to that. Okay. And yeah. Basically what I’m looking to do when I, when I look at this, is before I write anything, I will have had loads of conversations with the, uh, my clients’ clients or my clients if I’m writing something for myself, and I will go deep on what their struggles were when they joined, before they joined, I should say, or before they started working with the client. And I will go deep on the kinds of things that at that moment in time they were thinking. They were feeling and they were experiencing as well as the kinds of things that they were doing that was actually sabotaging themself or stopping them from moving forwards.
Teresa: So when I’m, okay, so let me just cover that. Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. That they were thinking, they were feeling, they were doing,
Vicki: doing. Yeah. [00:14:00] And stopping And what would that And stopping them. Stopping them from moving them moving forwards. I’m happy to share my little handout after if it would be helpful for you to refer.
Teresa: Perfect. Perfect. That would be, thank you. Cool.
Vicki: Amazing. So yeah, so that’s, that’s what I’m aiming to do with twisting the Knife. However I do that so that they see the opportunity, because with what I’m doing when I’m interviewing those people and then converting that into copy is, I’m making clear that.
They see the opportunity because I, I work a lot with expansive clients as well. I don’t typically work with people who are stuck like really in lots of pain. Like it’s, it’s terrible. It’s awful. Yeah. I work with people who are looking for the next level. They’re looking for that next opportunity, so that more expansive client by just looking at the things that they were doing and the, um, things that they were experiencing.
Often you can spot symptoms of a problem that they don’t either know exists yet. Or something that is, they’re experiencing the symptoms rather than the root cause. And I’m just trying to think of an example that I’ve done recently. So, yeah, so in the past, say I’ve worked with a coach who is selling to [00:15:00] company founders and female founders of high growth companies.
And some of the stuff that she would deal with in her program was specific to the, the symptoms of, of imposter syndrome or founder syndrome, the various different projects that we worked on. So kind of problems within the organization that were, because. They didn’t have the coaching that they’ve required.
They didn’t have the mentorship, they didn’t have the space to have these discussions with a trusted mentor, and they were constantly surrounded by people with a vested interest in their success. So they were creating the wrong kind of environment for their teams inadvertently. But that was the problem they were dealing with.
Like, my team’s not performing, this isn’t happening. Why do people keep leaving? We’re seeing these, this churn. But actually it was because of their underlying problems. And so in that sales page or that sales sequence, we did both. We were, we were calling out those issues and saying, well, actually that’s only part of the problem.
You know, this is a symptom of something much deeper, much deeper rooted. And if you carry on on this path, you can expect to see these potential consequences in the future. And that’s a more [00:16:00] powerful argument. Um, because it’s, it’s showing the cost of not taking action. Now, when you’ve noticed something, something’s not quite right, you’re not quite sure what that issue is, let’s take steps now, break down that process, figure out what’s gonna make the biggest difference quickest, and prevent those things from happening in the first place.
Teresa: Okay, so like honestly, I was sat here like this is amazing.
Vicki: So sorry if I’m going too fast, I get excited.
Teresa: No, and I love that you get excited. So the symptom of something deeper I think is really good, and this is something that I see all the time. So one of the things that I do in my Grow Launch Sale program is I will review people’s pages, sales pages and funnels, that sort of thing.
And I am not a copywriter and definitely not a sales copywriter like you are. But what I am able to identify is when they’re not. Giving them the symptoms. Because often, and I want everyone who’s listening to this to just double check with themselves that this isn’t them, because we can all do it. We’re often giving the solution before we’ve even identified with them that [00:17:00] they’ve got the problem.
So we are saying, I’m trying to think of an example that isn’t someone I know. So that they don’t listen to this and go, oh, she’s talking about me. Let’s say you are talking about a. System, a product of something like a, you know, an email system and you’re talking about all the features of the email system, well, you haven’t even identified if they even want or need an email system.
You are going, this is the best email system you’ve ever seen. Well, hang on a minute, how do I, like, you’re telling me what the product is. You’re telling me what the service, you’re telling me the solution where I haven’t even identified what the problem is. And then the other thing is sometimes they identify the wrong.
Not the wrong problem, but they don’t identify the deep symptom, exactly what you said. Right? So the symptom is something of something deeper. So for me, it always comes back to you. ’cause I work with business owners and you work with business owners. Ultimately the big problem is they don’t wanna lose their business.
They wanna make money, that [00:18:00] basically is what everything comes back bang to. So no one wants to have to write sales copy if they didn’t have to. No one wants to have to do a reel on Instagram. No one has to want to, no, I loved doing a podcast, but you know what I mean, like, you know, if you are writing blogs, if you are doing YouTube, whatever, like often if I could give you one other easy thing that would get you your result of more clients and more money, it wouldn’t matter the thing I’m giving you.
You just want that result. So yeah, it’s understanding. So I want. And like I said, I’ve got a million questions from previously, so we’ll come back to them. But how did they do that? Like I think being in business for such a long time, being in marketing for such a long time. I find this very easy to do is to look at someone now, not for myself, FYI.
In fact, I’m appalling for myself as we all are, right? But like, yeah, like look at someone else’s and go, no, you’re not addressing the problem. But how does someone do that if they’re sat there going, actually that sales page I just wrote, I was like, this is the best email system in the world as my opening line.
How did they address it and how do they work out what the problem is?
Vicki: Okay, so there’s a [00:19:00] few things here. First thing. Go back to your sales calls, go back to your customers, your clients find out from them directly, right? Whatever means necessary. What they were struggling with when they joined, before they joined.
Like what, what attracted them to you? Because. That’s the best kind of research you can get. Like with my clients, one of the first things I do is I actually do, before I write anything, I spend a month going through everything in relation to the business. I’m one of like customer journey, like the ideal client I will do, I will do a minimum of 10 one-to-one voice of customer research interviews with their clients. So that I can really,
Teresa: you must be very expensive, Vicki. That’s all I can just from
Vicki: premium.
Teresa: Premium. Premium. You are premium. Yeah. But that’s a lot of effort. That’s a lot of work. Yeah. So someone should be paying premium for that.
Vicki: Absolutely. But the data that it gives, and as a copywriter, it breaks my heart a little bit to say this, what they say is more powerful than anything that I can come up with because it’s mirroring, it’s, it’s like use that technique to mirror the like, use their language wherever you can.
[00:20:00] Parrot it back at your ideal client because they are your clients now, a few steps behind. So that’s the first thing I would say, is always ask your customer first. Never assume, because like you said, you might, well, you may well end up solving the wrong problem. Yeah, I’ve tried to solve the wrong problem before when I put services together, way back when.
It’s like I, I’m trying to think what I, what I’ve done that, that went wrong. That would be a useful example. I try, I tell you what, I, I ran a program where I taught people to write their own copy . Worked really, really well, but it wasn’t a big seller like I thought it was because a lot of people, they, they get to the point where the investment level for that program, for my time, for me helping them.
Yeah. They just want someone to do it for them. Yes. So I was trying to, and some like, for some people it’s perfect. It’s exactly what they want, but there’s a certain limit on that price point where for the same amount they could get someone to do it for them and they’d much prefer to, to do it that way.
Yeah. So I’ve fallen into that trap myself. It happens, especially when it’s your own thing. ’cause you kind of have your, your blinkers on. So, yeah. So when you are looking for what you’re writing about, how you’re going to make the problem, um, stand out though it is very basic, this [00:21:00] one, but I always start with it.
I, I basically just act like my five-year-old and ask why to every question. Yes. So I’ll, I will sit and with a client, I’ll be like, right. Tell me what, like what the thing is that you’re selling and like why, why have you built what, what’s it for? What problems it solving? Why is it solving that problem?
Why does that matter? And eventually, if you ask the question five or six times, you normally get down to the crux of what the issue is. And it’s usually, as you’ve said, more money, more time, or preventing wasted time or saving money like that, they would have to spend elsewhere. That’s usually where it comes from.
Another thing could be the achievement of a core goal. Something that I see in a lot of sales pages with and and, and not just sales pages in email sequences and socials as well, is people selling confidence. And that’s a really tricky sell. So whenever I do anything like that, no matter the context, whether it’s, whether it’s confidence in yourself, whether it’s confidence writing, whether it’s confidence, you know, in coming from a coaching program, I still always tie it to time or money or the achievement of a call call because confidence is [00:22:00] really tricky. People, they, they think they want it, but they don’t wanna invest in it. I see it with health and and wellbeing initiatives and stuff as well. A lot of the time they’re tied by the, the successful pages anyway, a lot of the time are tied back to those core goals because we are self-absorbed, we are self-interested and Yeah.
Um, as a species. Um, there are exceptions, you know, but you know, we are. Primarily focused on the self and making ourselves a better life. So I always try and bring it back to that. So those are usually your core themes, but I cannot stress enough the importance of talking to your ideal clients first because they will tell you why they bought like your existing clients.
I mean, they will tell you why they bought, and if you can mirror that messaging in your sales pages and emails and all the rest, or it’ll pay dividends.
Teresa: Such great advice, and one of the things that I’ve done in the past is I’ve had to put them on a, I’ve recorded them because my notes that I take puts my words in it.
So I, they might say one thing and I write it down to try and remember it, and I use my own [00:23:00] language in it. Whereas, like you said, it’s their language. It’s hearing what they’ve got to say so that when someone does read it, they go, oh no, that’s me. Absolutely. That is absolutely know exactly who I am.
Vicki: I live with my fathom note taker. It comes to all my meetings, it transcribes everything. I can’t live without it for those kinds of interviews, because like you say, I don’t wanna put my spin on what they’re saying. I want to know the exact words. Even if as a, as a writer, it doesn’t sound quite as good to me, it doesn’t matter. And that is another really good point actually.
Sorry, pointing out there,
Teresa: getting very aggressive with me. Not very passionate.
Vicki: Your sales page, your sales copy is not about you. It does not matter if you like the way it sounds. It doesn’t matter if it’s the way that you would speak. It’s always about that ideal client that goes for any piece of copy, but.
Always keep that in mind. And I see a lot of, like, particularly in larger businesses where things are written by committee that you won’t get the results that you’re looking for because so and so wants this in, so and so wants that. And this is important, so we’re actually, it’s important to [00:24:00] you, but it’s not necessarily important to clients.
Like I had one client who we were writing some copy and they wanted to incorporate their whole process into the sales page. And I’m like, this, they, they wrote four people. And I was like, yeah, but your offer. The point of your services is to generate leads for so and so, whoever the client is using LinkedIn.
Okay? Like, so that that’s your goal. That’s the thing that you’re gonna be, that’s the thing you’re selling. Your clients don’t necessarily want to know the intricate details of your process as to why you put this post in this particular order, and the structure and all the rest of it. They just wanna know that you are gonna get them from A to B, you’re gonna get ’em from a point of no leads or a few leads to more leads.
So sometimes we put in all that, we throw the, throw everything in, we throw in the number of hours of videos that are in the course. We throw in all these various different things, and it’s like, actually, it’s the so what behind it that’s much more important and useful and interesting, and what’s gonna get ’em to part with their cash. So, yeah,
Teresa: honestly, for every three words you’re saying, I’m writing about five questions, which this podcast could be three hours.
Vicki: So we have a series. [00:25:00]
Teresa: Yeah, I think we should try. Okay. So one thing I wanna touch on is the why question. I did an episode quite a while back now ’cause I always think it was like three episodes ago and actually I look, and it was like June last year.
Um, but talking about the transformation and that was one of the key things. It was like when I work with someone and someone says, I have a membership for beauty owners, and I’m like, okay, what? What does it do with the membership? And they tell me, and I’m like, and why is that important? It’s a community for business, for beauty.
Why? Why do they need that? Why is that important? Why, why, why? And like I said, ultimately with most of my businesses, it gets down to ’cause they wanna make more money or they want to save time. Also, I want to touch on the fact that you said time, money, or achievement of your goal, of your core goal. I think that’s really interesting that often it comes back to one of those things and not about you.
What per, this is real practical question. What person do you write your sales page in? Is it in first person? Is it talking to them? Is it talking? How would you write it?
Vicki: It’s embarrassing. First, second, or third person always confuses [00:26:00] me. You, I write to you. That’s how I write it. I think that’s second.
Teresa: So you’re talking I haven’t got clue quite honestly. I just know like
Vicki: you do, you do this, you do that. You are experiencing this. That’s how I do it. Okay. Some people do it me, but I think that’s weird for me. It just feels weird. So yeah, I just write to you the person.
Teresa: If I think about some calls to action could say, I’m ready to jump in, let’s do this.
T, that’s not the you. Yes. If you’re ready to jump in,
Vicki: save, save your space or secure your slot now, or you can do save my space, but I prefer save your space and yeah, for me that that works the best in terms of buttons and things.
Teresa: Okay, so. I’m gonna go back to some of the points that I wrote when you first started talking. So I’m sorry that it appears that we’re jumping around people, but
Vicki: it’s all good. I have faith in the edit
Teresa: This , Yeah, there is no edit. Whatcha talking about? I’m joking. Phil will be like your cheeky thing, but we certainly don’t change the order so it will jump around. Okay. So the promise. This is, and I [00:27:00] am, oh, actually I’m just thought of another question.
Okay. Honestly, if I can make sense of this, it’ll be a miracle. Making the promise. Right? So I work in a, you know, world where I can have someone do a launch and earn nothing. I have worked with people who have launched and didn’t make a penny, and I’ve worked with people who launch and make 20 odd thousand, 40 odd thousand like.
And, and also the promise or the challenge comes from they’ve gotta do the work, right? So I’m talking obviously very specifically about me and my industry, which I think lots of people would be similar. How do I make a promise without promising something? I just can’t promise what? What does that look like?
Because I really like the idea of like basically dying on your sword and going in. And I do like, I feel like I do that sometimes in terms of like I will happily and com, like confidently go. I’m really good at what I do. And I’m really good at helping people and this is awesome and you [00:28:00] should do it. How do we do that promise bit?
Vicki: So when you mean promise, are you meaning like risk reversals guarantees, that kind of thing.
Teresa: Guarantees. So you said I can’t what the promise you’re making. You said it, so I’m coming back and telling you. So yeah, you said the promise that they’re making and the results, like being more direct about this is the result that you can expect. How do we do that?
Vicki: So in terms of the promise here, what I’m talking about is the transformation, just to be crystal clear for anyone listening. Okay. So I’m talking about this is what? You can expect from working with me and how I do that, it depends on the client, but how I tend to do it is one with social proof.
So I’m demonstrating the result that I’m making. I’m not making bold wild claims like you don’t have to do anything and by tomorrow you’ll have a million pounds. You know, that kind of thing. Nothing like that. Good. I will say, actually one of the things, one of the things that I do include that might be helpful here is a little bit of a tangent, but I think it’s relevant, is I include repel criteria in anything that I write.
So say sales pages and sales sequences when it’s appropriate. So I will make crystal clear [00:29:00] where the starting point is where they need to be in order to get the most from this particular program or service. So that’s, that’s one thing that I do.
Teresa: So repel criteria. So like give me an example. What would that look like?
Vicki: So for example, this pro, like this pro, again, throwing an example out. Yeah. But this program is for you if you are in this particular position and then like a list of things, or it’s not for you if I don’t know. Yeah, so say it was a. Like, for my se for my email sequences, you have no email list and you have nobody to send your, put through your sequences.
This is probably not and don’t bother for. You don’t bother. Yeah. So that comes further down the page, but in terms of the promises that I make, they has to be genuine. Like you can’t, obviously you can’t come out and promise the world, but Yeah, I, I often, the way that I handle this is I list out, like obviously use the social proof to demonstrate what I’m saying.
It’s a really hard question to answer without a specific client input in. In points. I’m trying to think of an example and I can’t off the top of my head, but this is a really good question.
Teresa: Could you use me as an example? Like, like I said, I can, [00:30:00] I can. I guess my promise when I work with people is I. My promise is how I will be and what I will do and what I will invest in them in terms of like you will get me on calls.
I will make sure you’re okay. I will ask you questions. I will review your pages. I will provide you with all of the templates and the copy and everything that you need that I know works. But what I can’t do is I can’t. The reason I work, the way I work, the reason I don’t have a product that you do on your own is because there is so much nuance to everything, as I should imagine with what you do.
There is so much nuance. So someone who has a, uh, membership for horse riders is very different to someone who is providing a course on copywriting. You know, the audience is different, the motivations is different, everything is different. So I can’t promise. A result, but that’s what they want.
They want, and this is where like, I’m trying not to get a bit too ranty now, but this [00:31:00] is where it gets tricky, right? Because
Vicki: yeah, I know where this is going.
Teresa: I try and stay away from, I can make you six, six figures, seven figures because I don’t know that I can do that and neither do all these other people, FYI, that are promising this.
They don’t know that either. And because I have morals and refuse to. Go down that train. People might look at my stuff and go, oh, well, she said she’s nice to work with and she’s cool and she has had some results, but this person over here is making these wild claims. Like how? Yeah, just make sense of all that. Thanks, Vicki.
Vicki: Um, I think it comes down to a question of ethics generally and the whole, the thing that we talked about earlier about the unease around sales and the unease around that, the, the online space seems to be right for them. It’s quite soul destroying at times, looking at some of these things and really is, I think calling it out directly is really important.
And actually I’ve done that in a few sales pages that I’ve done. Like I’ve said, you just sparked my memory. I’ve said. I like, not [00:32:00] necessarily the header, but like, I cannot guarantee you results, like, like massive results, but what I can guarantee is this, and then kind of go through the process of the things that I can.
So like you said, I will show up, I will always be there for questions. I will, like, I’ll give you my, my framework or my process or whatever this is that has generated A, B, C, D, E for these people. It is a proven concept. We will apply it in your work, in your business and how we, how we’re gonna make it work together.
And also, I just thought of something else. And like this is perhaps a conversation for the, the sales call if there is one, rather than on the page. Yeah. But I would always, that’s one of the questions that I always get is, is always gonna be what, what if I don’t get results? And I’ll be like, well, well, one, we’ve built the process so that you will get results.
And this is the, this is the process for, mm-hmm. Kind of sense checking, making sure that everything is as it should be. So you can kind of like when you are, when you are, for example, sales page is not necessarily a click to buy option, but booking a call option. Then that’s always the way that I deal with that is on an individual basis because then I can, I can get a sense [00:33:00] of their business, get a sense of where they’re at.
But like you say, it’s, it’s irresponsible to make massive claims that are totally unsubstantiated and you see it all the time, especially on Instagram.
Teresa: Yeah. Oh man. And and also, you know, the other thing is some of the. Stories. Now, don’t get me wrong. As an online business owner, I am gonna share the really good stories.
But I also share on the last webinar I did, I shared a case study of someone who had done three webinars and didn’t have anybody turn up live. And then she did it with me and my process and had 20 people turn up live. Right? Yeah. And one sale. Okay. That is not this wild, massive. I made 60 million by literally breathing.
So I do try and balance it, but of course what people wanna see, ’cause we all want the quick fix. Like we’d be stupid not to think that isn’t the case. Like if there was a guaranteed sales copy that would get me loads of sales tomorrow, I’d do it. Like of course we would because we want it easy. But unfortunately that isn’t the case.
And selling that isn’t sexy. No, it’s not selling the, this [00:34:00] takes hard work and this isn’t for everybody isn’t sexy.
Vicki: Having morals isn’t sexy.
Teresa: No, it is not. It is not. Okay. You said something there that I wanna come on to. Sales page to buy versus sales page, to book a call. Is there any distinct differences that we wanna look out for on that? Or is there a way you treat it differently? Is there things you leave out? Things you add in?
Vicki: The way that I approach sales pages for my clients is it’s, it’s about weighing up what you’re asking the people to do. So a lot of people think a click to buy option is easier ’cause just give ’em all the information and they’ll just buy it and that’s fine.
Mm-hmm. But a lot of my clients are high ticket. A lot of my clients are selling things in the multiple four and five figures. So realistically, people probably, well, some will, but most will not buy immediately via a click to buy option. They want to assess that fit and have that conversation. So a lot of my pages are booking a call.
But yeah, always whenever you are creating something like in terms of a sales page or. Um, any kind of sales copy just [00:35:00] weigh up what the ask is, and if you were in their shoes, what you would need, want, and expect in order to be able to make a buying decision from that. And that doesn’t mean that every single sales page has to be war and peace.
I know we’ve all been in a situation where you’re just scrolling and scrolling and scrolling and scrolling forever. But in a, if I’m asking for a call, booking. They tend to be a little bit shorter just because they’ll get the ma the majority of information, but I’ll include the majority there. But things like FAQs, things like specific details about the process and things, if I was booking a call, I would go through that with them on the call anyway, so I don’t have to have as much detail.
Whereas actually the the click to buy options, I often end up finding that I have more information on there just to make it a no brainer decision. ’cause you’re trying to avoid a sales call in that situation, aren’t you? Yeah. So you need to make sure that everything’s there. But that said. I think it’s worth testing.
And actually that comes back to the, the other point that we were making earlier about the, the guarantees and things like in my own business, if I am promising something, like my promise is that I will write you an four Evergreen [00:36:00] email sequences that are gonna sell you more. And if they don’t, then I will continue to test and refine and improve them until they do start to perform.
Like that’s part of the process, that’s part of the, the built-in mechanisms of it. And I think a lot of people treat their sales pages and sales sequences and all, all kinds of, all kinds of copy as a one and done. And actually behavior changes, buying behavior changes all the time. I’ve, I’ve heard you talking about this in relation to launches fairly recently.
Like launching now is very different to launching . Six to 12 months ago, let alone in the distant past. So this is all stuff that’s worth testing, playing with, changing, and there are all kinds of things that you can test. But yeah, that’s, that’s something that I spend a lot of time doing is testing, tweaking, refining, and improving.
And just, I, I’m like a massive nerd. I like reverse engineering why things worked on me and why things work on clients and kind of factoring that in.
Teresa: Love that. I like, I’ll watch someone’s launch and be like, genius. See what you just did there? Like, yeah, love it.
Vicki: It’s like, I know where this is going. Excellent. [00:37:00] Move. Like make a note for future. So, yeah.
Teresa: Yeah. And sometimes I have legit bought because I’m like, you did a great job of selling to me. Like I, how can I not buy? Because Well done you, that was really slick. So. Another couple of questions I’ve got is Sure, and I’m sorry if we’re like literally darting all over the shop, whoever’s listening to this, but honestly, there is gold.
You will need to, if you are listening to this now, I’m telling you, go back and listen again because the stuff that Vicki has shared is gold sales pages versus sales emails. And are we using both? So for instance, if I’m doing a sales pay, if I’m doing a sale, I’ll have a sales page on sales emails.
But obviously there is a world in which you can just use sales emails. So what is different about them? What, what considerations do you have when it’s a sales page versus a sales email?
Vicki: It’s gonna depend on, it depends in the classic marketing answer. Yeah. I tend to work with both because what I want, look, but with the, with the clients that I work with, they tend to have a [00:38:00] i’ll, I’ll obviously talk to the clients that they’re trying to attract and see what they would prefer and usually it’s a bit of a mixed bag.
So it is, we do tend to test both options. I personally like to do a, um, an email sequence and the page just because it deals with different kinds of personalities who want different bits of information. So sales emails, like I do all sorts of different sequences. Like there’s, there’s loads of them, but what I tend to do in the sales emails is really.
Call out the differentiators from other other services that are available. Really make sure that you are honing in on your unique value as opposed to your competitors. An example of that would be one of my clients, he’s a systems expert. It’s it, it’s. It’s one of those kind of detailed systems, but he’s very specific and he works in one platform and he actually has coding knowledge of that platform, which is really unusual in his space.
Normally it’s like an author. I don’t wanna, don’t wanna give the the tool ’cause it’ll give him away who he is, but, but yeah, he only works in this specific software that, that. [00:39:00] It’s available off the shelf. And consultants in that space, they just use variations of it where he custom codes. So that’s one of the considerations that we make sure that we always talk about in in the sales sequences, because it’s his differentiator.
Yeah. Another thing for him that we always talk about is the fact that his consultancy business is based on a subscription model rather than a. Project model because again, that’s unusual in the space and that’s something that’s really, really attractive to his clients. And it shows the progression of the relationship that you can have because they come for a problem and by the end of the 12 month period they’re, they’re working on all kinds of really in interesting, exciting things that weren’t even in the pipeline 12 months ago.
So when I’m doing sales, email it, sales email sequences. Always pulling out those, those differentiators, just to make really, really crystal clear what the benefit is of working with that person. There’s also the credibility side of things. These are factors in the sales pages as well. Yeah. But in these sequences, I always include things, create credibility, like share your story as well, if it’s relevant to the audience.
If it’s a very transactional kind of. Most of my, [00:40:00] most of my clients aren’t really transactional purchases. They tend to be long term and it’s not like going and buying like, it’s not like e-commerce or anything like that. It is very, it’s very much,
Teresa: it’s a relationship based. Yeah.
Vicki: Yeah, absolutely. So we’ll spend a lot of time kind of gauging where they were, where they are now, how they got there, what that process looked like.
Because for a lot of them, they were their eye dog highness. Some point, and they’re just further along that pathway. So it’s, they’re guiding people. There are a few steps ahead or multiple steps ahead of the people that they’re serving now, so that’s a really useful reminder as well, that people like to be guided by others that understand where they are and where they have been.
It’s just, I guess it’s that sense of belonging that we all look for as, as human beings. So, yeah, so that’s something else. And in terms of the, and then I’ll, what else do I do in the email sequences? I usually have some sort of transition into an offer, like a special offer. That will like to incentivize the action directly.
But the details I’ve said offer are usually that, I mean, I usually send them to the sales page at that point anyway, to kind of review the offer in more detail rather than trying to do it all in an email unless the client or the their client’s [00:41:00] clients. That’s a really confusing distinction, isn’t it?
Clients, clients haven’t expressed a preference for not. Going to a sales page for whatever reason. But a lot of mine are in the online space, a lot of my clients, so it’s kind of customary to go from there to there. But I always give them the option to book a call anyway directly, like on the, on the sales email as well for the fast action people.
If there’s something specific, then, then they, they’re ready and they know they wanna go. There’s that option immediately for them.
Teresa: Yeah. Okay, so next question. Okay. I rarely go next question. You talked before, and actually this ties into another question I’ve got. The difference between evergreen and non evergreen.
. And how you create that urgency to take action. What are your thoughts around, I dunno whether they’re two separate questions. I thought one kind of led into the other.
Vicki: Yeah. Get where you’re going. Yeah. So for me, I say evergreen when I’m, when I’m talking about evergreen sequences, what I’m usually referencing is they’re selling just in case anyone’s not familiar.
I’m sure they will be, but yeah. So they’re selling all year [00:42:00] round, like launches and things are great and I, I really like the energy of a launch, but a lot of my clients have, especially have experienced launch launch exhaustion. Yeah. Which is a phrase I came across the other day and I was like, I’m keeping that.
So Yeah. . Yeah. Or they are at a point where. They’re doing the launches, they’re doing the other stuff, and now they need things that are going behind the scenes in the background and to kind of, to, um, compliment that because there’s only so much of them to go around. They can’t be doing more launches or they can’t be doing more places and wants and things.
So the kinds of sequences that I create for people are things that are working behind the, behind the scenes in the background, usually triggered by some kind of activity, either length of time on the list or, um, specific events that are going on in the, in the. Timeframe of the year. So for example, like accounting, I’ve done some sort accounting clients and things in a certain time that their schedule is very time oriented.
Yeah. Like certain times of year talking about certain things, there could be kind of lead magnet sequences, all kinds of things going off. And in terms of creating urgency in those situations, it’s. It can be [00:43:00] tricky because what you don’t wanna do is you don’t wanna get people used to having a special offer.
Like, and, and so they never wanna play, they never wanna pay full price ’cause they’re just waiting for the offer. Like for another example that I use a lot is DFS. If you’re in the uk
Teresa: Yeah. You’d never buy a So a real price. Because you just make to the offer. Exactly. Because there’ll always be one
Vicki: sale, always end Sunday. And then there’s another sale on Monday. So like, you don’t wanna, you don’t wanna kinda get into that cycle. But that said. Creating that urgency. Again, I bring it back to the problem that you’re solving. I’ve not, like I do, I do include incentives, so like bonuses, that kind of thing, like within the, within the sequences and within the timeframes of, of those sequences going out.
Like it’s, it’s, it’s an easy way to create that urgency and scarcity. But also I focus heavily on the problem that we’re solving and the opportunity cost if they don’t move forwards. And that’s a nice kind of way of reminding them the problem, making sure that they’re, the problem is front of mind, but also the solution is front of mind as well.
So although the launches are very like. I feel there’s a [00:44:00] need for both. All the like Yeah, definitely feel there’s a need for both. I don’t think you should ever try. Well, it would be great if you could kind of have a business and not have any kind of launching going on, but for some of my clients anyway, ’cause a lot of them are introverts and they’re like, I can’t, I can’t handle all these launches all the time.
And it messes with cash flow if they don’t fall and all sorts of things. Having this, yeah, having this behind the scenes stuff that’s happening. It’s just a really nice way of kind of bolstering those sales and making sure you’re not having all your cash flow in one particular sort of period of time or three day window or something.
Which I don’t know how they have the nerve, like the, the resolve in those situations. ’cause it’s
Teresa: absolutely no idea.
Vicki: Terrifying thought.
Teresa: No idea. I remember interviewing Amy for the summit and I said to her, I don’t know how you have just one launch a year. And she went, I don’t recommend it said it works for us, but like I, because you’re literally putting all your business on one day or one launch and that is terrifying.
Vicki: Absolutely. Yeah. I, I’m not gonna swear, but yeah, I would, I’m not built for that kind of business model, I don’t think. But she doesn’t even recommend it then.
Teresa: No, exactly. [00:45:00] She’s like, no, don’t do it. Don’t anyone ever do it. I was like, well, that’s good to hear that you said that, but yeah.
But you do need that urgency. And I think, I think one of the questions that you’ve said, which I think lots of people will struggle with and maybe, maybe not struggle with, but maybe haven’t thought about is the fact of. What is the problem or what is the result if they don’t take action? Like where are they going to be if they don’t do anything about this thing?
And, and I think. I don’t know. I’m about to say, I think that’s quite hard to understand. Do you think that’s hard to understand?
Vicki: It does require a bit of digging with clients. So how I usually, what, what I like to do is sit down with the the person and be like, right, okay, so you help so and so with X. What does that person’s life look like in a month’s time?
Three months time, six months time, 12 months time. Like, you don’t have to go that granular, but I think it’s helpful. Yeah. Just to see what the, the running consequences are of not taking action. And actually that can be quite a nice way of, of [00:46:00] working it out because it’s more of a manageable chunk. So it like, it could be, okay, well if they’re not making money, they’re not getting leads, well then in a month they’ll be in the same position.
A month after that, they might be, they might be starting to, to panic a little bit because the reserves are going down in the business a month. A couple of months after that, they might be, think they, and they still haven’t got any, anywhere. They’re being sporadic. They’re starting to panic. They’re like, obviously this is a, this is not an example I’d recommend.
’cause it’s, it’s quite negative. But it’s, it’s just kind of getting that sense, and then they’re making, they’re making questionable decisions in their business then because they’re taking any work rather than the work that they, they should be doing. Or then they’re kind of moving into panic stations or they’re looking at getting a job or this dream that they had is turning into a nightmare.
Like, again, I wouldn’t recommend going heavily paying, focused, but if you sit down and really think about what, what would’ve happened to. It’s that the what if scenario, isn’t it? Yeah. It’s kind of playing into that little bit and if you’ve got examples of clients that took a long time to join you, like I work in a program and one of the, one of the clients who joined us took her 18 months.
So we asked her, we sat [00:47:00] down with her and we asked her to. Plot the timeline. So again, asking your clients if they’ve got stories like this, of the things that they tried to do themselves and actually made the situation either no different or worse or a little bit better, just to kind of gauge where they were at before they started and when they joined you.
So if you’ve got anybody like that that you can ask. That’s your gold mine. Definitely start there because there will be trends and patterns that you start to spot. And if it’s your own experience as well, if your business is built on your own story and your own, um, lived experience, use your own story as well.
Just be like, I tried to do this, but actually it didn’t work and this is why it didn’t work. And actually if I’d done this, like obviously hindsight’s 2020, but yeah, you can, you can accelerate that progress and that if, if nothing else, that is the thing that you should focus on. It’s like. I failed so you don’t have to, or like, you know, we can, we can move this forward at an accelerated speed because what people are often looking for in.
Most offers support, accountability, direction and acceleration towards a [00:48:00] goal or the achievement of a certain thing. Yeah. And if you incorporate all those elements, you are onto a winner. So yeah, look at those different acts and those different elements. So support, accountability, direction and acceleration, and see how you can demonstrate that with the clients that you are working with, but also with the clients that you’re not working with, how you can see the opposite.
So yeah, hopefully that makes sense. I think that was a bit waffling, but yeah.
Teresa: We got there. No, it does, it does support, accountability , direction and acceleration
Vicki: yeah. That’s what I always look for in an offer. Just to be really clear.
Teresa: So I was gonna ask you a very selfish question and I realized I kind of couldn’t because you thought I’m just gonna have, look, I got, okay.
Sorry. I was just checking my millions of questions. Okay. You bought into one of my programs?
Vicki: Yes.
Teresa: And I was thinking, oh, I’m gonna ask her, what was it about my sales page that made her wanna buy? There was no sales page when you bought it. I had no sales page. Yeah, I did send some emails, but I literally sent like three, I think.
So what was it that tipped you over the edge?
Vicki: I bought [00:49:00] because of you. So I was on your webinar. I think it was your webinar about webinars. Yeah. And I’d heard good things anyway, so I, I had your rep reputation. I’d met you I think at Yes. I’m not sure if I’d met you at that point or not quite. I think I had,
Teresa: I think you met me in the Rebels program.
Vicki: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s right. And then I, I. Was on the masterclass, I was like, wow, this is amazing. For the value for like a, a low ticket product, the amount of effort that gone. And then I also, for purely selfish reasons, I wanted Teresa in my pocket.
So, so yeah, that was my reasoning. That was my reasoning. But yeah, I loved the way that you’d kind of. I love to see how other people do what I do. So I like to surround myself and be in those spaces with other people. ’cause I’m like, okay, I know how I do a launch, but how does Theresa do a launch and how does so and so and so do this aspect or whatever.
. And I was particularly drawn to the pre-launch stuff ’cause I wanted to see how you. Did that on socials and things, so yeah.
Teresa: So, okay, so let’s take that. . And this is now like just a, a [00:50:00] consultation for me, everybody. Yeah. How would you put that? ’cause this is something actually that is not this, this isn’t unusual for me to hear, right?
So I do not have a ginormous business and one of the reasons. I don’t want a ginormous business. ’cause I like personally helping people. Yeah. But I think one of the other reasons is, is because the way that people often buy is when they know me. So they’ve seen me, they’ve spoken to me, they’ve spent time with me.
Yeah. In various different ways. And then they go, I want to be in your world, which is awesome. How do I convey that on a sales page? Or can I just not
Vicki: that would be, that would be one suggestion for me, for you, because I’ve, I’ve obviously seen you live, I’ve seen you on video, I’ve seen you at Comicon.
I’ve seen you kind of all, all around the place. Mm-hmm. And people buy, I, I, I would say people buy into your energy. Mm-hmm. They buy into like your, what’s the word I’m looking for? Your demeanor the way you are. You’re very supportive. You’re very warm. And I think that’s important in relation to, like, you, you can get that across in, in copy, but.
It kind of breaks my heart that I’m like, yeah, video is the way forward, not the copy within the [00:51:00] page. Okay. But it’s a credibility. It’s a credibility signal and it’s a trust builder and it helps to, if, if somebody was on there and they didn’t know necessarily know you very well, they would easily, very quickly see who you are and what you’re about.
I’ve seen some of your other sales pages and they’ve got videos on, and they’re always, they’re always really good. They get me energized and excited about it, and it’s almost like that little experience into the sales call. Almost like if you’re gonna have like a sales. Conversation ’cause it’s the, you can gauge from that energy whether you’re gonna be a fit or not.
I think so for you. But for me, one of the benefits I bought, I can’t remember what I said now. So there’s the having you in my pocket, like the amount of knowledge that you have. And I know that from being an atomic con, I know that from being in Rebels and various other spaces in the webinars, that was probably the differentiator for me.
Okay. As a target client because like. Forget to spend a fair amount of time together over the six month period, and I can pick your brain. And I’m like, oh my goodness. That’s exciting. So for me, that’s really, that’s really interesting For clients that aren’t writers, maybe not the same, maybe not the same kind of, again, it’s it’s who [00:52:00] you’re writing to.
It’s that specific person. Um, who’s gonna, you know, make that buying decision. But imagine I’m a marketer and I see that value. So for someone that isn’t a marketer, that’s like, oh my goodness, this is so valuable. Yeah. Your time, your energy, your. Materials are great. Like they’re just really well thought through high quality.
Like there’s just, there’s so much. Shall I just write you a sales page?
Teresa: Could you, I’d really appreciate that. Thanks very much.
Vicki: I’ll get it to you. My close of business today,
Teresa: it’s so funny ’cause I was like, oh, I could get to critique my sales page. I was like, damnit, I didn’t have a sales page. And you signed up, which it’s kind of, you know what’s really funny about like this whole.
And, and I am like saying this about me and what I do. I teach the launches. I teach, you need a sales page, you need this, you need this, you need this. And sometimes some of my most effective selling has been where I have none of that, where I haven’t got a sales page where I haven’t done a thing, but there has been a runway into it.
’cause that particular time I wasn’t even going to sell. Went on and went, do you know what? I am gonna do this offer, but I’m [00:53:00] gonna do it really lightly and really easily and really like if you want it, you want it. If you don’t, you don’t. And 25% bought, which I’ve never had a rate like that, like is huge.
Yeah. So, but honestly, Vicki, I. You know, I’m gonna say something now and I hope you don’t mind me saying this. So, Vicki, I had had a conversation with her. I was like, you need to be more visible. And she, we did a visibility challenge at the end and beginning of the year, and part of the visibility challenge was like, I’m gonna ask you to go on your podcast, which I.
I love and hate it when that happens because I do open myself up to everyone going, oh, I’m gonna ask you. And they bless them. Like some people just think they’re gonna get a yes and, and that’s not always the case. If they’re not a good fit, it’s not gonna work anyway. And I said, yes, I’d like you to apply and you have invested a lot of time and effort making sure that this episode is excellent, more than probably most people that I’ve interviewed.
And. More than definitely who I’ve interviewed like in the last year or two. [00:54:00] And I’m gonna say this and you can clip it or I will clip it. I would highly recommend you on anybody’s podcast. This has been, I have loved this, I have got so much from it. My aim with any episode is to give people real actionable, tangible stuff that not only I want ’em to feel inspired and energized and supported, but I want ’em to go, oh, okay.
I could try that thing. Or, oh, okay, that makes sense, why that may or may not work. And I literally have a page of notes, which is unbelievable, and I will literally go back and re-listen to this episode. So, Vicki, thank you for putting, if you put half the time and effort into what you do for clients as you did for this, then I know you are going to be phenomenal at what you do, and I know you are phenomenal anyway.
But thank you for being an amazing podcast guest.
Vicki: My goodness. Thank you.
Teresa: Oh, my pleasure. So where can people come and find you? Because I urge you to all go and follow Vicki and
Vicki: Yeah, so my, my main place where I hang out is LinkedIn. I’m Vicki Handley. [00:55:00] Quirk, I think is also Quirk is the name of my business, and that’s also in my handle. But I’m, I’m the one with green hair, so I’m pretty easy to spot. Spend most of my time there.
Teresa: Awesome. Thank you so much, Vicki. It’s been a pleasure to have you on the podcast.
Vicki: Well, thank you for having me.
