Turning your passion into profit with Miriam Schulman

Today’s episode of the podcast is an interview with Miriam Schulman who is an artist, author and founder of The Inspiration Place and The Artists Incubator Coaching Program where she helps artists develop their skills, tap into their creativity, and grow thriving art businesses. We talk all about how you can market yourself and turning your passion into profit!




  • You don’t need thousands of clients – you need to sell to the high end of the market.
  • Start with your goal/destination in mind.
  • You need to have a signature style to be able to market yourself.
  • Cheaper does not mean it is easier to sell! People are looking for value.
  • The 5-part Passion to Profit framework:
  • Production – making sure you have the capacity to produce assets
  • Pricing – how much will you charge and will it work?
  • Prospecting – start telling everyone who you are and what you do and own it!
  • Promotion – getting prospects and getting sales
  • Productivity – your system for making it all work
  • The first part of promotion is to get attention, the second part is getting sales through building relationships.
  • Write down your goals – when you imagine, you use the creative part of your brain and when you write it down it uses the logical side of your brain.
  • Setting goals enables you to be more realistic.
  • We have to help our team manage their time as well – we need to know when they are working on projects.




Just because something is cheaper, does not mean it is easier to market and sell!





  • An introduction to Miriam 04:29
  • Finding your market 17:35
  • 5-Part Passion to Profit Framework 18:41
  • Setting goals for your business 30:38
  • Taking your business online 37:07
  • Miriam’s new book 41:20







The Inspiration Place




Firstly, I'd like to start by wishing you a very, very Merry Christmas. Now, and I'm a little bit late. It was a couple of days ago, but I wanted to take the chance to hope that you had a lovely, lovely time with your family and friends. And you got to celebrate, you got to take time off. You've got to relax and you've got to remember what all this hard work all year round was for. So I'm really hoping that you've had a lovely, lovely break. And also, if you are listening to this at the time it comes out, then I hope you've got exciting plans for new year. Have to say I'm not big new year fan if I'm honest. We tend to stay at home with a bottle of fares or seven and yeah, just watch a bit of TV.

Just, it's not really my thing. It's not really my thing. Then my husband did try and convince me that we should go to LA this year for like four days, which I quickly assured him I was not up to doing because I'm very tired. Okay. So before I get started today's interview, which is awesome. It's with Miriam who is so much fun and talks about lots of good things, including her five step passion to profit framework.

Teresa: I want to just give you a heads up of something that might be happening soon. I have been going through the process of a rebrand, and also looking at my names of everything, not my name, my name stays the same, but as in the name of my membership, and my podcast and all these other good things, and they are changing, I'm not ready at this point just to share yet what it's going to be.

Teresa: With such a seconds of I've changed my podcast name. The first time it was Social Media Marketing Made Simple. Then I realized it was way too much more about marketing than just social media. So I changed it to Marketing That Converts. And now I'm realizing that it's way more about just marketing.

Teresa: Because the time that I've gone on in my business, as I'm like seven plus years into my business, I realized that I can obviously talk and support in lots of other areas than I currently, you know, than I did. So it's going through another little tweak and a change, which I'm very excited about. I hope you'll love.

Teresa: It's coming soon, but I just want you to keep an eye out for us, keep an eye on my socials and things, and you'll find it as it starts to happen, but I just wants to give you a heads up. Okay. So like I said, we talked today to the lovely Miriam. Now Miriam is the founder of Inspiration Place The Artists Incubator Coaching Program where she helps artists from amateur to professionals to develop their skills, tap into their creativity and grow thriving art businesses.

Teresa: She's also an artist herself and an author. And basically today, we talk about how you can market yourself and how you can turn your passion into profit. Because now I don't know about you and we talked about this on the podcast, but lots of people think, you know, struggling artists, like that's the name.

Teresa: And actually she talks more about just the fact of her being artists talks about having an online business and how to really sort of stand firm in the fact of what you do and who you are and your personality. So I think there's loads you're going to get from this episode. So without further ado here is the lovely Miriam.

Teresa: Okay, welcome to this week's podcast. The very lovely Miriam Schulman. Miriam how are you doing?

Miriam: Good. Thank you so much for having me.

Teresa: My pleasure. I am really excited to have you on. I'm really excited to share with my listeners your story and how you got to kind of what you're doing now because it's something that's quite close to my heart in terms of doing your passion and doing something that you absolutely love. So I always start exactly the same way. I'm sure it bored listeners to death, but I don't mix it up a bit, but can you start by introducing yourself and tell us how you got to do what you're doing now?

Miriam: Okay. So I'm in my fifties. So like the let's, let's get the short version of the life story journey.

Miriam: Uh, so I am an artist and what I primarily do is I help other people who either want to reconnect with that creativity. Cause they haven't, they either, they always wanted to paint and never got around to it. They used to be creative in college. So I help those people. And I also, for the past few years, been helping other emerging artists make a full-time living from their art.

Teresa: Okay.

Miriam: Okay, so here's the journey part? In a shortest version possible. So I haven't always been an artist. Like most people like my audience, I took the longer path. I did the practical route first I worked on wall street and after 9/11 happened, I decided I was no longer going to do that just as I'm sure there's many people now during the pandemic who are taking stock of what they're doing in their life.

Miriam: Um, people who were laid off and maybe don't want to go back to what they were doing before. So that was my experience after 9/11, is that I was not going to go back to the world to finance. And that's when I committed myself to becoming an artist.

Teresa: So can I just touch on that bit? Because obviously that is, that is a huge, huge event that took place. And life-changing for the world almost. Um, were you in wall street at that point? During 9/11 or so were you physically very close to where it all happened?

Miriam: Well, that's a really good question. And what most people don't remember is there was another bombing of the world trade center in 93. And I was working in the world trade center at that time.

Miriam: And I, we were working my office faced directly the tower that where the bomb went off and in my office, everyone kept working. And that vision of seeing the terrorism happen in the building next to ours, while my office stayed working that stuck with me. So that when 9/11 happened, If you recall, there was 20 minutes between when the two planes hit and the second tower, they did not rush to evacuate that, they were not evacuating that.

Miriam: So it was that culture that you keep working, even though there's a terrorist attack going on right next door, um, so even though I was not working in the world trade center during 9/11, I had been so close to that world and it was so close to what, who I, it could have been me. So it was so close to that.

Miriam: Um, that was a very frightening, kind of like a PTSD moment for me when, when I saw, um, 9/11, it was like brought me right back to that first bombing.

Teresa: Yeah. And you're right, like, what kind of world do we live in where something like that happens. And yet we just keep working. Like that, would you say it like that?

Teresa: It's like, well, that's insane. Who does that? But kind…

Miriam: For the record, I didn't keep working. Like I, okay. So when the first bomb went off, I was having lunch with a girlfriend in the cafeteria, which is on the second floor. The power went out. So there was like backup generators that kept the lights on and the computers humming, but they stopped running the elevators.

Miriam: They didn't tell us what was happening. They told us it was a cone failure. So my friend and I, we walked up, back up 37 flights of stairs. Could you imagine if like this was during, you know, okay. So we walked back up and it wasn't until we got to the, to our desks, that we could see what the truth of what was actually happening outside the windows.

Miriam: And people were smashing the windows with their computers to, um, try to breathe. And I just turned right around and left. I turn around.

Teresa: And I'm glad to say I can't imagine because that's just, I mean, obviously we will watch 9/11 in absolute horror and, but to be so close to it and to, and I think not that you know, you don't ever want to think, you know, what good came of it, but the fact is that you looked at what your life was at that point of when this is not worth it.

Miriam: No. Like if I was waiting for a sign from the universe, it's pretty big sign. So at the time, like I said, I wasn't working on wall street. In fact, I wasn't even working at all. I has taking an extended maternity leave, but that's when I said to my husband, I'm not going back.

Teresa: No. You happened to live like, you know, and I know we can't live in fear and I know that things happen all the time, but just living and working in that environment.

Teresa: And funny enough, I have a family member who worked in New York and that was the point that she decided ‘I'm not working in New York anymore.' And she came away and moved and they now work somewhere else in the States. But I think sometimes, although we don't like it. Although no one liked the pandemic. No one is pleased that terrorist attacks happen. But those things make you see things in a way that maybe you could never have seen things.

Miriam: Absolutely. There's nothing like a crisis, whether it's a global thing or a personal crisis, like a death, a death in your life that lifts the veil of whatever's not working in your life.

Teresa: Yeah.

Miriam: And you see very clearly what is, and isn't it important to you. I mean, I think we've all had that experience, Teresa. I bet you have as well where you've had like a death in the family or some sort of crisis and all of a sudden, like your to-do list gets caught in half. You're like, oh yeah, I don't have to do this stuff anymore, you know, this is not necessary. Create a real, you know, whatever ridiculous thing you had on your list.

Teresa: Yeah, exactly. All right. So can I ask you. So, what was the transition then between having a job in wall street to then, like, I'm really fascinated in, in that kind of, not just the, how did you do it? How did you get from one to the other, but also how you fell? Because I'm assuming that working in wall street and the trade center is doing all that stuff.

Teresa: Like. It must've felt very powerful and empowering. And then like to say to your wall street colleagues, I'm going to go off and do something around painting. Like obviously I am simply playing, which, you know, what I mean, like how did that feel?

Miriam: That's a good question. I haven't been asked that before. Yeah, there is, there was something, there is you tapped on something that most people don't realize, um, most people, when they talk to me, they assume I hated that world. And what you just tapped into was the truth that there was something very seductive about all that power of the money. And I grew up very poor. So I had never had that before. So that was like very difficult to walk to walk away from.

Miriam: And there was a little bit of that. I hope people don't see what I'm doing right now at first, you know, there was a little bit of that. I also like Teresa to kind of compare it. So most people will have this experience. It's like the hero's journey in all those heroes journey story. So, um, pick, pick any of them, wizard of Oz, let's just pick where the heroin decides they're going to go on this great journey.

Miriam: And there's that moment where they, they want to go back. So like Dorothy's has no, I'm not running away from home and going back to get that. And then there's that big moment that happens where it's no, you're not going back. So there was really the two steps that had happened Teresa. There was the extended maternity leave, which was kind of like my first I'm stepping back from this world because I was already feeling jaded.

Miriam: And then when 9/11 happened, that was like the crossing of the threshold. In that hero's journey. So, um, you know, like in star wars where Luke's planet gets blown up, for example, or Dorothy, her house goes to Oz. So that crossing of the threshold moment makes it impossible to go back. So I felt like it was impossible to go back at that point.

Teresa: Yeah. Yeah. So then you only had one choice which was then to make this a success. So did you leave or did you cross that threshold knowing full well, what you were going into?

Miriam: Oh, no.

Teresa: I was going to say.

Miriam: I didn't, did not. I just knew I wasn't. I was so confused. I was so confused. I didn't, I, I didn't believe I could make a living as an artist, which is why I didn't pursue it in the first place.

Miriam: So I did start painting was always my passion. So I was painting and I thought I was going to be a Pilates instructor. So I took a job, um, at a very big chain of gyms and Teresa it was um, the gym may sit their mission to teach there, um, since New York sports club, which I don't know how they did during the pandemic, but prior to the pandemic, a huge chain of gyms. They train their instructors, not just on how to do the exercises and how to sell, because that's where the money is, is how to sell personal training packages.

Miriam: And it was during these sales training sessions that I had my aha moment. I was like, oh, you mean I could do these things. I'm not going to do it to sell personal training packages. I'm going to do it to sell my portraits. And since then that was like, became a lifelong mission for me to learn everything that you spend your time and in your world, like the email marketing and building my like, and the more I learned about how to do that, the more excited I became because I felt I had control over my destiny.

Teresa: Yeah. Yeah. And isn't that funny? I think, I don't know many people who just take that step into being an entrepreneur who then go, oh, this is the thing exactly. Like they have the passion, they have the thing, but actually what's really fascinating is the fact that the thing that you, that held you back is the thing that you're helping other people with now.

Teresa: You thought I could never make money. And I think like, as a complete layman to this, I know very little about the art world. My friend owns an art gallery, which she loans me lovely art to put in my office which is nice. Um, but like, you know, the only thing I know really about art, this is the big assets that sell their paintings, but hundreds of thousands, millions, whatever, and you kind of don't or the really disposable art that you get an Ikea or, you know what I mean?

Teresa: Like habitat or whatever it is. I don't, I don't really see the in between bit, which is like the, not the Van Goghs and not the Ikea. So how was that getting started in that and trying to then sell your own stuff?

Miriam: Okay. So the great question, and I think what most people don't realize is there are so many artists making a living who are not household names because they think either you're a household name or you're starving and they, and the media loves to play the story of Van Gogh to tragic hero.

Miriam: Meanwhile, he was never starving. Let's just be honest. He had a trust fund, you know, Theo sent him plenty of money. Um, okay. So they love to play that up, but you don't need, and Teresa I'm sure you'll agree with this when you're, when you're at, let's say, and you help a lot of coaches I assume as that true.

Miriam: Right. So coaches, for example, they don't need thousands of clients. Same thing with art. You, as long as you are selling to the high, uh, high end of the market and not the hundred thousand market, but you know, paintings that are, um, I'm going to say this in pounds, because for your audience, you know, you're selling paintings for 2 to 5,000 pounds.

Miriam: You don't need to sell a lot of paintings to make a full-time living. 5,000 paintings, a 5,000 pounds of painting with 10 to 20 paintings a year.

Teresa: So I'm interested then, how do you find, or how did you find your market. Like you just said that to me. And it's like, and I immediate thought, well, that sounds really hard.

Teresa: How did you find these people? Because with art as with anything in that kind of creative space, it's so subjective and it's in fact, I think I'm going to like put my neck out and set, especially with art because we all know I've seen art that I think is stunning. And it's not much money. And then I've seen art that I don't understand, or is not my thing that we'll be selling for loads of money.

Teresa: And I just think, well, who would pay for that? You know, or so, how do you find the people who are going to specifically like and buy your style of art?

Miriam: That's a great question. So it's, again, it's not that much art worlds are not that much different. So just like you would have a client. Well, I don't know how I'm going to find a client to pay me 5,000 pounds for a package.

Miriam: So it's a lot of it has to do with your positioning yourself as a high-end brand and pricing is actually the shortcut to creating that perception. So just like, um, wine, are you a cheap wine or expensive wine, and what's the difference. And most people are to assume that the wine that costs more is the better wine.

Miriam: And they've actually done blind taste tests where they, they've given the same exact wine but they told the people, this is the 20, you know, this is 20 pounds, this is 50 pounds, this is a 100 pounds. And of course they liked the more expensive wine better. So it's, it's partially positioning. It's also, um, leaning into your signature style.

Miriam: So I liked is this a good place for us to talk about the five foundations of your business? Okay. So I will talk about both how I teach this to artists but it's any business. So the five parts it's, it's your production and your production is making sure that you have the capacity to produce assets. That even if you were fully booked, fully sold out fully, whatever it is that you actually, that math works.

Teresa: Okay.

Miriam: So some artists they discover, oh, I can only make a painting a week. I guess. I can't charge a hundred dollars for this.

Teresa: I see. Yeah.

Miriam: Same thing with people who are service-based people. Okay. You can't charge $40, 40 pounds an hour. That math doesn't work. You won't have time to go to the bathroom. So, um, you know, it's, that's the first part is what are you producing?

Miriam: But I also like to say, well, what is marketable? And what's marketable is having a signature style. So a signature style, whether it's in business, a signature style, whether that's your music, your art your creativity, whatever that happens to be. Uh, people don't want the copies.

Teresa: I'm smiling because you're so right. The way that you and I'm, I've got your Instagram in front of me, as we speak, you know, you have a very specific style and all you're doing is being authentic to who you are and what you like and what you do, and not trying to be anybody else. And that's exactly the same in general business with everyone else.

Miriam: Yes, nobody needs another Tony Robinson with the black turtleneck, you know, or an, and there's no shade on Tony Robinson. There's no shade on Gabby Bernstein, but nobody needs a copycat of that.

Teresa: There is a Gabby Bernstein. We don't need another one.

Miriam: Right.

Teresa: Exactly. Exactly. So, okay. So looking at it. Can I ask one question about the product production side? Do you start backwards from what you want to earn?

Miriam: I like the start when, so when I interview clients, the first thing I like to be clear out, what is your goal? I'll say, what, what is your goal? And if they just, if their goal is, I just want to get my art out there. I know they're not a good client for me.

Miriam: So you have to have a very specific destination in mind. Otherwise you're just getting into a car and driving around, so you run out of gas. So you need a destination, and then I can help them with the strategy. That's going to get them there, the vehicle that will get them there. So I do like to ask my clients, what is, where are you going?

Miriam: And then we look at well, what is it that you're actually doing your production? What is your capacity is what you're doing, going to get you there. And of course, the next plan is the pricing plan that is going to overlap with the production. So what are you pricing your services or your products for? Does that math even work?

Teresa: Yeah. Yeah. And you're right. Sometimes I think. And I think like all of us, we get into our businesses and we start doing the thing and then we kind of go, oh, hang on a minute. And we don't do this at day one because none of us did. I'd love to say that I sat there on day one and went through all of these steps and worked out what my pricing was, but it didn't work like that.

Teresa: Whereas, you know, I think not many people are not enough people then go, actually, if I want to earn this and I'm selling it for that, I need an extra 300 hours in my week that isn't going to work, you know? So I think that's such a good exercise to do.

Miriam: Yeah. I think were a lot of people got stuck and you kind of hinted at this earlier, where do you find the people who want to pay that is there's that limiting belief that cheaper is easier to sell and it isn't.

Teresa: It's not. No.

Miriam: So, um, cheaper can be low prices can be a turnoff. Um, people may what what's, what's wrong with it. So, and where, what customers are most motivated by are not low prices. They're, they're motivated by value. They're looking for value.

Teresa: Yeah. And I think in your world as well, they're looking for unique, different, like if someone looks at your paintings and says that's too expensive, then they're not a customer of your level, you know, they, they might be a customer of a, I get a print somewhere or, you know, and I think one thing that's really interesting in the handmade space, like where, where you are making the thing you're selling is everyone underestimates how long it takes.

Miriam: Yeah, I mean, I have a client right now who she's doubled her prices. And she cannot keep up with the orders. Now that she's doubled it. She it's like, it's easier for her to sell at this higher prices. I was like, it's time to double them again. She's not quite emotionally ready to do that, but it's like, you can't keep up, well you don't really have a choice.

Teresa: That's amazing. So we've got production, we've got price. What comes next?

Miriam: Okay. So this one I think will be near and dear to your heart. So that is prospecting.

Teresa: Okay.

Miriam: So, you know, once people know they have to raise the prices, all kinds of fear and doubt creep in where are we going to find these people? And the biggest mistakes that we see we being you and I is people's reliance on social media rather than moving their prospects to an email list that they can count on. So we've, you know, we've all seen what you know, what would happen? Like if Facebook and Instagram got shut down for a day.

Teresa: And like 6 hours.

Miriam: Right. And then we all think, oh, this could never happen to me. I had a client just a week ago. Her Instagram got shut down after posting a photo of her artwork of a bird. So it's, we all have this feeling, by the way I love your face. So others are like, oh, as long as I, you know, follow the rules, it won't happen to me. No, you have no idea. Like there's some quirky thing.

Miriam: Like, I don't know what she said in there. Bird. I don't know. Cause it's bird flu. I don't know what, she doesn't know what she did. She can't get her account back. So you can't rely on this.

Teresa: And this happens more than you would imagine.

Miriam: I don't even want to rely on it because they're only showing your post to 1%.

Teresa: Yeah. Yeah. You need other ways like it's that whole, don't put all your eggs in one basket scenario, isn't it. And I think people forget because they're on several platforms or because you know, social media is so big. They just assume that, oh, well, I only need to do that. I mean, it's like, yeah, that's great.

Teresa: If it works and that's working for you, but the minute something goes wrong, you are absolutely done for, from a you know, a marketing point of view. So you'll really keen at that prospect in bit to get people from social media onto the email list.

Miriam: Yeah. And for, um, artists who interface with people in person. Every single person, you meet, move them to your email list. And I do this even in my day to day life. I will, um, you know, drop it into the conversation that I'm an artist and the minute they say, can I have your card? I say, oh, I don't, I don't have any, um, let me give you my, give me your email and I'll shipping my artwork. You know, like I will, I'll work it in that way.

Miriam: So I think the number one thing people can do and this Teresa. This is for everybody, not just artists, is start telling everybody what you do. Every single person, you meet you. I am a whatever that is because it does two things. It's it starts owning that identity for yourself. It's probably more than two things.

Miriam: You're owning that identity for yourself. You're practicing that elevator pitch and you're telling the universe you're open for business.

Teresa: Yes. Yeah. I love that. And, and you're right. There's something really empowering about the way you could say that, especially when you're just starting and when maybe you have that doubt of, well, am I really an artist?

Teresa: I mean, I'm not selling that many paintings or I'm not doing that well, and it's like, no, tell people that's exactly what you are, that's exactly what you do. And saying I'm an artist. I mean, generally that sounds really fancy.

Miriam: Yeah. So in your world is like, say I'm, I'm a, I'm a business coach or I'm a waitlist coach or whatever it is, start telling everybody who you are and what you do. Don't hide your identity.

Teresa: I love that.

Miriam: Really own it a hundred percent. So like where you're saying to me for, for like, did you tell people, like you have to start owning it from the beginning.

Teresa: And I think just touching back on that, I think that's the problem. I think we did get nervous. And the truth is when I talk to people about like showing their face and, you know, telling people what they do and putting themselves out there, they're not necessarily nervous about some stranger saying, they're nervous about past colleagues, past friends, family, like current friends.

Teresa: Like those are the people that they're scared for. And it's like, well, if they're really truly on your side, then they won't care and they won't judged and they will support if they're not doing those things, they are definitely not people to have in your world.

Miriam: Yes. 100%. I see that a lot in my world too. Of my artists that they don't want to tell the people closest to them. These are the people who would be most likely to want your art because they feel connection to you.

Teresa: And I can imagine that with like lots of us, that own businesses, even when we have very successful businesses, people that like, ‘You've got that little job where you work from home.' And then really patronizing about it.

Teresa: And I can imagine, and I know some of my members who make handmade gifts or bake wedding cakes or whatever. And again, in your industry that people are almost I'm going to guess to say that they're worse, that they're like, they really see it as a hobby, not a, you know, as if that you can make money from it, which is part of the reason you're needed to demonstrate to the world that this can be done.

Miriam: Oh yeah. 100%. Yeah.

Teresa: Okay. So we've got production, price prospecting. What's next?

Miriam: Okay, promotion. All right. And my, my thoughts around this has evolved over time. So I think where people get this wrong with promotion is there's really two types of promotion. There's the promotion that you do to get prospects. That your marketing promotion and there's a promotion that you do to get sales.

Teresa: Yes.

Miriam: And some, most people, the problem they run into is they conflate the two. And that tends to be the problem that they see Instagram, as they see people who are successfully, who are on there, who are successful. And what they don't realize is what their people are doing on Instagram is the first half of the promotion. That's to get attention.

Miriam: If you're not moving them to your email marketing, then you're not doing the second part, which is the promotion for sales.

Teresa: Yeah, absolutely. And I think some people, you know, when they talk about, can you sell on social media? And it's like, Some cases you might. Yeah, because someone might see a piece of your art that's on Instagram and go, oh, I want that.

Teresa: But inevitably, it's that, it's that relationship building that you're doing in the emails that socially supporting, because obviously when people join your list, it's not like they opt out of watching your Instagram, but it's just generally supporting that. That relationship and that journey through, into having the confidence to buy from you.

Teresa: Okay. So after promotion, what have we got that?

Miriam: All right. The fifth one is productivity. So these, this is your, your system. What is your system for making it all work? I used to call it the system, but then everyone thought I meant that's just your software. It's not the same. No. So, and it's really circles back to what you had asked me at the beginning.

Miriam: What I found the most powerful piece of being productive is being super clear, hyper clear on your goals and not just writing your goals down like manifesting and, and, you know, you know, just taking out like your, a wish board and looking at, I'm not saying those are bad things. But really creating plans around it and revisiting to make sure you are reaching those milestones on a weekly basis.

Miriam: What are my three goals for this week? What is my goal for this day and writing it down. Uh, I it's, you know, there's lots of research. That is writing it down, uh, makes it more likely to happen because it's using a different part of your brain. So when you imagine when you have a vision for your goal, you're using more of the creative part of your brain.

Miriam: When you're writing it down, it's more the logical side of your brain. So harmonizing the two parts of your brain will really supercharge you getting things done and staying clear and not getting distracted.

Teresa: Yeah. Yeah. And I am a big, big fan of that. My audience know really well, that I love a goal setting. And you're right. I don't just goal set for the year. I goal set for quarter, I then break it down into weeks. I break it down into like, what am I doing today? But the other thing that, the reason I think that this is so important is it enables you to become more realistic. So let's say my. I look at my goals for this week.

Teresa: And I know that I've got a couple of days where I am batch recording podcasts, which is what I'm doing. And I have literally, I can see my diary, right roadways back to back pretty much all day. So realistically this week, how much am I really going to get done? So that way, my goal for today, in fact, because I have the full focus planner by Michael Hyatt and I have the three things for the day.

Teresa: There's nothing in those three things today, because the only one thing should be in there is do the calls. Like that's it. Because I'm being realistic. I, if I got anything else done today, other than do all these interviews, it's a bonus. So therefore I'm not putting any pressure on myself. And I think sometimes when we don't goal set, when we don't think about the plan, like I could have got to the end of the day and go, ‘Oh I've done nothing.' Where it's like, no, I have done loads, but I know for, well at the start today, I'm not going to do anything else other than interviews. And that's absolutely fine. So I'm not going to put any pressure on to make sure I do anything else. So I personally, I think it's a really good thing to know. And then even if you don't hit them, it's like, okay, well, what happened?

Teresa: Why didn't I hit it. Did I still want to hit it? Was it not a priority? If it is a priority, why didn't that happen? Does it not make time for it? Did I try that thing and didn't work I need to try something else? So there's always someone to go with it.

Miriam: Yeah. And I don't know if you do this Teresa, but, um, when I, I time block so that, and in those time blocks, like I will actually write down, you know, 9 to 11.

Miriam: It doesn't say work. Because that's when you have the situation, like, well, what happened to my day? It will actually say what my goal is for completed. So it might be right chapter seven or draft a podcast, whatever it happens to be. One mistake that I see my clients do is they'll put on there. Even if they're time-blocking they might, they might say, work on their website.

Miriam: I was like that, that is not concrete. You have. It's too big. You got to say it. Maybe it's your about page. Maybe it's not even your about page. Maybe it's just, you're drafting the copy for the about page. That's what you can get done in an hour or two, and then you'll feel good about like, I did that.

Teresa: Yeah. And kind of funny stories about this. So one is yesterday I was, I was doing a call with my next level members. And I was saying to them about this and that I do, they know I time block and yesterday I time blocked and I was ahead of my time and I'm like, I could not be more excited, like, you know, when you go, okay so I'm going to do that one thing and it's going to take me an hour and you do it in 40 minutes, and then you think, oh, I can start another. And then you're ahead of yourself all time. It's like, it becomes a race. I'm so competitive. To get faster than I think I could be, but you're right. And again, another thing I did just, I think it was last week.

Teresa: I did some emails about productivity and I talked about, you know, how, when you write your to-do list, like you said, and you put update website or the classic one, I see all the time is create lead magnet. And I'm like, do you know how long that'll sit on your to-do list for and how many times you're looking and think ‘I'm useless. I haven't done it.' And it's because it's too big. And there's, so what I did in my emails is I broke down every step of creating a lead magnet. And it was literally like a list of about 9 or 10 things. And I was like, that's more realistic. And then, you know, if I'm going to do it within the next quarter, in this month, I'm going to do these four things.

Teresa: And this month I'm gonna do these four things. And the following month, I'm gonna do those four things. And at least then you can start ticking those things off. So task number one is, come up with an idea for a lead magnet. Then that's all you've got to do this week. If tasks number two is write the frame or the rough wording for the lead magnet, you know, it just makes it feel like you're achieving stuff.

Teresa: When you just write something too big, you don't feel you've achieved anything.

Miriam: Yeah. And do your, the people you work with, do they have team members? Cause I would, I would want to go on to say that I actually been helping my team manage their time too. So like, I'll sit down, we have a launch coming up and, you know, we have a list of things and we know when everything is due D U E and I will sit down with my team member.

Miriam: Okay. When are you going to actually do D O. When are you create? We and I sat down with her. Okay. How long is it going to take you to create the webinars and the, and the auto responders for each webinar? She says, ‘I think it's a day.' ‘Okay, Which day are you doing it?' Yeah. And we put that on her calendar so that I know that even though she has other behind the scenes work going that that's the day she's working on it.

Miriam: So I helped them do it too. So that's something like, we can be really good about managing our own time, but we have to realize that we have to help our team manage their time as well.

Teresa: Yeah. And especially when you're relying on that team and often. When we do have a team, we do some elements. They do some elements, we do some elements.

Teresa: So we need to know when they're going to be working on them, but to help us work on our bit. So, yeah. So that's really good. Thanks. That's really helpful. Say break down. I've got a couple of other questions I'm conscious about time. So the one question I wants to ask was when you first started this business, did you start just selling art as in that was the only part of your business. And at what point did you then decide to take in an online business where you helped and taught and did that sort of thing?

Miriam: Great question. So, yes, I just sold my art in the beginning and, um, I did not, I didn't have an email list back then.

Miriam: I was doing word of mouth marketing and I did it. So what happened? I was on Etsy and somebody reached out to me and said, I really love your techniques. Do you teach online? And this is way back in 2012. I had never heard of online classes then, you know, it's like, it doesn't even sound like it's that long ago, but online dog years.

Miriam: Yeah. So I said, well, ‘What's that?' Um, I didn't tell the person what's that. I, my mind who's doing that. So I, you know, I did some research and I naively thought, so I made all the mistakes that we're talking about today. I naively thought all I had to do was put some posts on Instagram and I would fill up a class.

Teresa: Easy.

Miriam: No. So after that, um, that's when I took a course by Amy Porterfield, she didn't have the courses she has now. I think it was called like Facebook profit lab. Yeah. It was really about how to build an email list. And when I started building my email list and using this strategies, Not only did I use it to build the online class, but I was then using that to sell my art.

Miriam: So my art career became in all the ways became more successful. And the coaching pivot happened about two years ago, almost the same way somebody approached me and said, do you coach? I was like, ‘of course I do.'

Teresa: Yeah. ‘Someone needs a coach. I can coach.'

Miriam: Yes, but I really enjoy it, which is why I've allowed that to become the focus of what I do. I feel I'm on a mission to help, help other people help the Miriam's of 20 years ago. So.

Teresa: Yeah, and I think that is such a powerful place to come from that, you know, I've seen people and I'm ashamed to say that, you know, they've bought a course on how to sell a course and then sold the course on how to sell a course.

Teresa: Like, and they've never sold a course. You know, they're literally just, they've seen the online world and gone ‘I want a piece of that.' And now they're trying to make it fit. Whereas following someone like you, who has done exactly everything that you are working with, people to do is the best teacher you can have.

Teresa: Like, I've just put together this new pathway, a three-stage pathway for my members. And basically it tells them at each stage for each type of thing I use social or content or sales or, um, community and team. Email list, what to do at the stage they're at, and I've put it together. It's a beast. It's huge.

Teresa: And I said to them, this isn't a course, this isn't a get through all the lessons and then you get to the end and you tick the box. Not at all. This, what you're seeing here map out took me seven years. And I'm not saying it's going to take you seven years because I learned change, tweaked, whatever. But this isn't meant to be like, done like that.

Teresa: It's not a quick fix thing. So these things take time, but you know, we're the best people to learn them from because we've been there done that made the mistakes, cried with some gin in bed, picked ourselves up again and started again like we're the best people to ask.

Miriam: Yeah. And, um, I mean, you can tell the difference between coaches who are recycling theory.

Miriam: Unfortunately, I've paid for coaches like that. Like I, you know, that's not what, and please don't tell me my launch didn't work as Mercury's in retrograde. That's not helpful.

Teresa: We have a joke about my mission because for them it's somewhat like, says something like, isn't it true? Mercury retrograde. I'm like, I think it's permanently in retrograde, so it's always hard.

Miriam: Right, retrograde four times a year or something ridiculous like that in the last four weeks. Really helpful.

Teresa: So final question so that we can wrap up because I'm conscious of your time. So the next thing that you've got coming is you've written a book. So tell us, cause I am in awe with anybody who can write a book. So tell us, like, what was the inspiration, what the book's about and when it's gonna be out?

Miriam: Okay, so I'm still in the trenches. So I'm writing a book. I do have a publishing contract with Harper Collins. So, um, it is, this is happening. It's scheduled to be released October 2023, no, 22 next year. And it's due December 31st. So I've gotten about, um, seven or eight chapters done. And. Using Teresa, all the stuff we talked about today, I'm like tracking my progress, keeping, you know, count, looking at my word counts.

Miriam: Like that's keeping me motivated. Um, you know, I scheduled out when each chapter was due to like, keep me focused. Yeah. You know, I I'm in, I'm in the middle of it. What was it? What was the question? Like, what was it like? It's such a big question.

Teresa: It was sorry. There's several things. So what's the book about?

Miriam: Yes. Okay. So the book is how to make it as an artist. Uh, we don't have the exact title yet. I think right now, the working titles artprenuer, which. It may be the title. I feel it's a little derivative, so hopefully we'll come up with something better, but we walk, I walk through all five of those plans, the signature style, pricing, how to create a high end brand.

Miriam: And a lot of what I talk about, I do use a lot of examples from my world, from the visual art and the art world and the creative world, but it's applicable to really any business. Because of what we talked about today. So all five of the plans, and then there's a lot about mindset. So I'm teaching you how to think, like an abundant artist.

Miriam: So that is the thread that goes throughout the entire book is how to knock off starving artist syndrome and get rid of those limiting beliefs. So that you can thrive.

Teresa: Yeah. And, and this is something that I go on about a lot. Mindset is so incredibly important, but I think in your industry, like literally it's been built on the starving artist, hasn't it, it's being built on. You don't make any money. So I think from any industry, yours is the one that needs the mindset work. Isn't it?

Miriam: Oh yeah. Definitely.

Teresa: Means you've got a lot of work on. That's fine. That's fine. Well, Miriam, I'm so excited to have you on. It's been great to chat and I'm really excited to see your book when that comes out.

Teresa: I'm like I said, I'm an awe of anyone who can write a book. It's on my goal list. That one day I will. I just can't actually imagine having to write it as I struggled just doing emails, uh, cause I'm not a natural writer, but I just think it's a, it's an amazing thing if you can do it, but everything will be linked up into the show notes.

Teresa: But if my audience want to come and find you, where is the best place? Where are you hanging out?

Miriam: Well, if you liked what you heard here today, then come find me on the Inspiration Place. Uh, we talk a lot about what we talked about here. It's not about how to paint. It's a, how to think abundantly, how to market. And we have lots of guests just like Teresa will be a future guest on the show as well.

Teresa: Cool. Brilliant. Thank you Miriam. It's great to have you on the show.

Miriam: Thank you, Teresa. It's been a pleasure.

Teresa: There we go. That was Miriam. Lots of good things in there. Like I said, regardless of what industry you're on, it's funny because you know, lots of the principles are the same.

So I'm going to leave you to carry on it and mince pies and drinking. What do you drink at Christmas? I make eggnog. I make the best eggnog. It's so nice cream and alcohol. I mean, what is not to love anyway, I will leave you to it. Have a wonderful rest of your week. And like I said, Merry Christmas and a happy new year, and I will see you next week.