This week’s episode is an interview with the very lovely Sarajane Case who is an expert in all things enneagram. We talk all about what the enneagram is and why it’s good to know which type you are, as well as the different enneagram types and identifying yourself.
KEY TAKEAWAYS COVERED IN THE PODCAST
- The Enneagram is a personality typing tool that is self-guided and it is motivations based so we can understand why we operate the way we do.
- Types of Enneagram: Type 1 – The Perfectionist/Performer, Type 2 – The Helper, Type 3 – The Achiever, Type 4 – The Individualist/Romantic, Type 5 – The Investigator, Type 6 – The Royalist, Type 7 – The Enthusiast, Type 8 – The Challenger and Type 9 – The Peace Maker.
- The Enneagram diagram is a circle with 9 numbers all the way around, then there are wings either side of your chosen type which you lean towards one more than the other.
- We need to get to the root of what we need and understand what it is that we are craving.
- Enneagrams give us the information of what patterns we tend to repeat over and over again.
- By identifying your enneagram type, it helps to get to the root of what is holding you back and get to our growth pattern faster.
- It is important to understand that not everyone thinks the same as you and motivated by the same things you are.
- You don’t have to be your Enneagram identity all the time.
- You have to learn to create space between your thoughts and your reactions.
- The Enneagram is a map that gives us information, we can add the tools we need to work with it.
- You need to enjoy the journey and the process, rather than completely focusing on the accomplishment.
- There are many factors in the Enneagram, so every person is going to show up differently to another.
- There are 3 subtypes to every Enneagram number: One to One, Self-Preservation and Social. They are what you think you need to do to survive.
- Most people when they read their type feel embarrassed or as though they have done something wrong.
- We need to have compassion with ourselves and what we have learnt through life.
- We have to remember the best of you sometimes gets held back, and that’s okay.
- Everyone in our life is getting the overflow of how we talk to ourselves, so if we allow ourselves to rest, we can allow others to rest.
THE ONE THING YOU NEED TO REMEMBER ABOVE ALL ELSE…
The enneagram is a great way to identify what motivates us and why we react certain ways to certain things, it is a tool we can use to understand the root of what we need. But, it is important to remember that we are not defined by our number and we must be compassionate with ourselves and others.
HIGHLIGHTS YOU SIMPLY CAN'T MISS
- An Introduction to Sarajane 08:00
- What is an Enneagram? 10:30
- The Different Types of Enneagram 12:40
- The Benefits of Identifying your Enneagram Type 15:05
- The Meaning behind Enneagram 3 18:51
- How to Use Your Enneagram 27:20
- Enneagram Connections 32:00
- Enneagram Subtypes 33:20
- You Are Not Your Number 39:15
- Where Does Your Enneagram Come From? 41:03
- Sarajane’s Book 48:00
- Managing a Large Instagram Account 49:35
LINKS TO RESOURCES MENTIONED IN TODAYS EPISODE
Hello, and a really warm welcome to this week’s episode of the podcast. How are you doing? So, okay. In total honesty, I have had a bit of a week. It was strange. Cause yesterday I was talking to someone and they said that they were listening to an episode a couple of weeks back and said, you, you sounded like things weren’t good. Is everything okay? And I don’t actually remember. Saying it on the podcast, but obviously I must have, or alluded to something, but unfortunately last week as I record this, my mum passed away and she passed away of cancer. She had a very short and a very unfair fight and it’s, or away from us, way quicker than we were expecting.
And quite honestly, as like a 41-year-old. I, I don’t think I ever expected to have to organize funerals, work things out. I do bank stuff for my parents and, and it’s been a real tricky week. And the reason I say this actually is for a couple of reasons, first off that, uh, one today’s episode is very axled. I’ll get to that in a second.
But the other thing is as a business owner, when something like that happens, it’s really tough. It’s really good. Right? Because in one way, you’re your own business and you’re the boss. You decide what time you take off. You decide whether you need a few days, you know, you’re not having to try and get compassionate leave or whatever it is. But then in the same breath, it’s really hard because of the fact that you are your own boss. And if you don’t work the business, doesn’t often work. Now I am. And I always am so very grateful for my team, but at times like this, I am crazy grateful for them because they really did kind of pull together, get stuff done and were brilliant and, and picked up things that aren’t normally there is.
And that’s the things that actually the business did. Carry on and take it over. But obviously I always have big plans of things that I need to be doing and things that can only be done by me. Like a podcast episode. I can’t, you know, put that out to one of the team members, I’ve got to do it. So I, it was just really interesting and I felt like I need to do something more structured or official, or I don’t know, about how do we manage when things like this happen? How do we cope? How do we get back to it? How do we sort our brain out? Because honestly, to begin with when mum first got ill, I think I went through a thing of, you know, well, what’s the point? And, and almost like my brain was just not in the right place to work.
So even if I had sat at my desk, even if I had tried to work in a really hard or did the eight hours or whatever. Nothing was happening. Cause my brain wasn’t having it. And then obviously I started to sort of pull myself together and the fact of right, come on, we need to get on with this. And she passed away and which, like I said, was an absolute shock to us all.
So then we have the time I’m spending with my pair of my dad and my brother trying to help them out and sort them out and do various things then. So yeah, it’s really. Like I said, challenging as a business owner, but you know, what was amazing was yesterday was my first proper day back doing calls and doing a coaching call with the Academy, doing some 90-day calls and it was ace.
And I loved it because honestly, yeah, what I do makes me very, very happy. So although I was absolutely exhausted at the end of the day, it really was a nice break. And that sounds awful, but honestly it was. So, so I am literally recording this right up to the wire and I am relying on my wonderful team that they’re going to turn all around and get it out for Monday because obviously I’ve been a bit distracted with everything else that’s going on. But I am absolutely still here and still doing stuff.
I’m just a little bit quieter, but it just makes me think even more. So, you know, that that life’s for living and going out there and doing. You know, your, your dreams and your hopes and, and just going, for it. It’s gotta be the right thing. The other reason this episode is particularly apt for what’s just happened is.
On this episode, I’m interviewing the very lovely Sarah Jane and Sarah Jane is an expert in all things Enneagram. And if you’ve not heard of it, don’t panic. I’m going to put a link to a free Enneagram sort of questionnaire thing. But obviously my brain isn’t quite kicked back into get it, but you can do. But basically it’s kind of a personal development type, finding out who you are or confirming who you are, or maybe why you do things the way you do. And I am a big fan of this stuff because I see very much personal development is not trying to attain a level. I can’t get to, or not trying to be a person that isn’t me, but I see it as really understanding me and then shaping the bits of me that I would rather shape or understanding the bits of me as to why I do what I do. And one thing that we talk about in this episode, which is great. And like I said, is very prevalent right now is because I’m an Enneagram three. Enneagram three jump into action. So crisis happens and we don’t go, we might hide for a millisecond and then we’re like, right, what needs to be done?
And that has been so evident over the last week. So the stuff we’ve done in the last this week has been unbelievable and it seems very fast, but, you know, organizing the funeral and doing all the stuff. And today I have a call with the celebrant and I’m the one who’s going to be telling you what she needs to say.
And you know, and I’ve taken a really strong role in my family in terms of right. What do I need to do? And, and just, you know, going with it. And I think that’s a lot of time because I’m an Enneagram three because I take action because my default, if you like is to, to make things happen and to take action and to do things.
So it was really interesting that this is the episode that was due out this week after what’s happened. So I think you’re going to really enjoy this episode. We talk about what Enneagram is to, like I said, if you don’t know what it is, no worries. We talk about why it’s good to know. And then Sarah takes us through Sarah Jane takes us through the certain different Enneagram types.
And really the idea is, although there is a quiz you can take, she mentions in the episode that you should almost identify yourself, but like I said, it’s really, really good. I find it really useful. I will link up to that in the show notes. So if you go to TeresaHeathWareing.com/128 then you can do your own Enneagram test and see what you are. Okay. I will leave you to it. Enjoy this interview with Sarahjane.
Okay. I am very excited today to welcome to the podcast the very lovely Sarahjane Case. Welcome Sarahjane.
Sarajane Case: Hello. So excited. I’m here. Thanks for having me.
Teresa: Very excited you’re here. Thank you so much for coming on. So I’ve mentioned in the intro that basically you and I happen to be in the same mixer group with a lovely friend, Mary Hyatt.
So, and it was so fortuitous because I’d already been following you on Instagram and I was getting more and more into what Enneagram is and all that sort of thing. So it was just like, as there’s so many things that the universe just went you to need to like get in the same world. So that was amazing.
But what I want to start by doing, cause there’s so much, I want to ask you, but just want you to explain to my audience who you are and how you got to do what you do now, which is pretty special.
Sarajane Case: Yeah. So I, we primarily teach the Enneagram now. I come from the background of teaching creative entrepreneurs, how to prevent and recover from burnout.
And I found the Enneagram when I was doing that work as a coach. And it helped me to kind of fast track, about 10 years of discovery work. You know, people. Usually we take all of this time, figuring out what we struggle with, what our problems are, what our repeated patterns are. In the Enneagram kind of is like, Hey, here are your repeated patterns.
Here are your struggles. And so we could really get down to the root of their work much, much faster. So. That’s how I first fell in love with it. And then eventually I got to the point where I was like, I want to just talk Enneagram. I want to skip straight to the point. And so that’s where we are now. I started by, it started with working with my coaching clients and then building out the Instagram account. I started in the end of 2018. And, um, yeah. And it grew from there.
Teresa: So we should say that your Instagram accounts, how many people follow you on Instagram?
Sarajane Case: I think we’re at about 545,000 now, somewhere around there.
Teresa: Unlike was that ever your intention? Was it always like, like, you know, did you sit there thinking, yeah, this is where I want to go with this or was it just a case of like, I’m just going to post this? Cause I like posting this stuff.
Sarajane Case: Yeah, it was really about a friend of mine being like, you’re driving me nuts, and this is all you want to talk about. Can you just find an outlet already? And I was like, I guess I’ll create an Instagram account. And, um, so I just started posting and it went from zero to a hundred thousand in three days. Like I had no expectations. Anyone would follow it.
Teresa: Okay right. So I just need to put a caveat there for my listeners. If you’re sat there listening. Oh, brilliant. I’m going to start an Instagram tomorrow. And in three days, time, I’m going to a hundred thousand. That is insane. That must have been the biggest need for that. That’s a great that quick.
Sarajane Case: Yeah, I think it was like the right place. Right time. I created something that I was hoping for, that I felt like was missing and I had been craving. And I think that I just kind of hit it, dropped it in the bucket, right when everyone happened to be thirsty for it. And now there’s so many Enneagram accounts out there. It’s insane. But when I first created mine, it was really hard to find one.
Teresa: Wow. And I do want to come back and ask you about some Instagram stuff in a bit, but reason I’ve got you on is to talk about Enneagrams. So if someone is saying this and it’s like, what the hell is Enneagram that you’ve just mentioned 20 times, explain to my audience what Enneagram is.
Sarajane Case: Yeah. So it’s similar to something let’s say like Myers-Briggs, StrengthFinders, DISC, you know, one of these personality typing tools. The major difference here though, is that it’s. You self-type. So it’s not like you can take a test, but I recommend that you just read the types, you see which one you resonate with.
It’s so it’s self-guided. You’re not diagnosed. And then the second piece of that is it motivations based. So strengths by unders DISC, all of these things are your behavior. So it talks about what you do, but Enneagrams all about why you’re doing it. And so you’re able to really get to the core of why we operate the way we do.
Teresa: So that’s interesting actually, because I did take a test and I paid for my test. Um, it was one that Mary sent me and was like, this is a particularly good one since then I find there’s a free ones. Um, and I actually having what you just said. If I had read all the things, I probably could have come to the conclusion of what I was without actually taking the test. But I guess, I guess if you’re not as aware of yourself, cause I would think I’m fairly aware of. Who I am the type of character I am, but if you’re not then taking the test might just take that decision off the table for you.
Sarajane Case: Yeah. Well, a lot of people take the test and it’s asking you questions that you might answer from the perspective of how you think you’re supposed to be.
Sarajane Case: So when I first took the test, I got asked questions, like, is it important for you to help people? Do you think it’s important to love? And I was like, I was like, sure, but really those aren’t my motivators. That’s just. A bonus to who I think good people are or do. Um, so when, but when I read my type, I felt exposed.
I felt uncomfortable. I felt like someone had like written out my life and put it on the internet for other people to read. And that’s kind of how it usually feels when you find yourself.
Teresa: Okay. So can you, and I can, I’m guessing you can do this off the top of your head, but can you run through the different types of Enneagram?
Sarajane Case: Yeah. So I’ll give you the titles and kind of the basics worldview. So type one is the perfectionist or the reformer. They’re really focused on being a good person, not being evil or corrupt. You have type two, the helper who’s focused on being loved and liked. Type three, the achiever who’s focused on achieving and kind of achieving the next best thing. And then we have type four, the individualist or the romantic they’re focused on finding and expressing their identity. We have type five, the investigators who’s focused on being competent and capable. Type six, the loyalist who is focused on safety and security and belonging. Type seven, the enthusiast who’s focused on freedom and happiness. Type eight, the challenger who’s focused on not being controlled. Type nine, the peacemaker who’s focused on not losing connections and maintaining their own peace of mind.
Teresa: Okay. So obviously if you’re listening to this and you might already have gone, Oh yeah, that’s me. So. Um, the other thing that we’ve got with the Enneagram is which I didn’t quite understand. So I need you to help me understand this is the fact that you have wings, that you have like a tight and then you have a wing type. So explain how that works.
Sarajane Case: Yeah. So the Enneagram diagram is a circle, so it’s got nine numbers moving all the way around on either side of your dominant type is two other types, right? There’s one. So for three or, there’s two and four. Yeah. And so you pull from both of those numbers to kind of flavor your personality.
However, you’re going to lean usually into one more than the other. So I’ll say for myself, I’m a seven. So I focus on freedom and happiness, but I also have an eight wing that’s pretty heavy. And so I can be really averse to being controlled. I can be really bold and direct and it can balance out that seven lightness with a little bit of grounded kind of challenger energy.
Teresa: Yeah. So I’m, we’re gonna talk about my Enneagram and this is going to be really interesting to when you talk about it as to how this shows up in my world. But what’s the, what’s the benefit to, I mean, how you, how you came about doing it kind of slightly hinted to that, to what the benefit was, but what’s the benefit if someone’s sitting here going well, what’s the point of me knowing what I am, or what’s the point of me going to look at this?
What’s the benefit in us knowing what our Enneagram is?
Sarajane Case: So I think it’s twofold. The first one being that anything that we’re trying to change in our life, any habit, or, you know, expression of ourselves, it’s not serving us. We need to get to the root of the problem, but usually we’re treating symptoms, right?
Like, Oh, I just need to change my behavior. I just need to drink more water. I need to run more. I need to, you know, make a million dollars. And if I just do these things, then I’ll feel better, then I’ll be happy. And what really means we need to do is get to the root of what we think we have to be in order to be loved, accepted.
Okay. Safe, whatever it is that we’re craving. We can recognize that we can have that from right where we are. That’s not earned. The second piece of that is that it gives you the information into what those repeated patterns are. Most of us, like I said, we go our whole lives. Not realizing that we’re making the same system happen over and over and over again, because it’s our world view.
It’s what we think we have to be in what we think everyone thinks they have to be. We don’t realize that other people aren’t swimming in the same water and they’re not driven by the same things. And so it helps us to get to our growth pattern faster. It helps us to deal with the root of the issue. And then it helps us to understand that other people think differently than we do.
Teresa: And that last one for me actually was massive because I redid my Enneagram right at the beginning of the whole COVID-19 thing. And it answered so much for me because I was immediately into “Right, c’mon what can we do? Let’s do something let’s, let me help people. Let’s do masterclass, let’s do this” and I’m still doing that.
And I couldn’t appreciate it, even though I like to think I keep fairly open minds and I take people’s points of view and thoughts, but I couldn’t appreciate how some people wanted to go and hide in bed. Now, I, well, it could because I wanted to do that, but the point is I didn’t and I got up and was like, no, we can’t do that.
So. Actually one thing that was really fascinating for me is doing the Enneagram at that point and then going, “Ah, that’s why I am kicking it.” So I actually had to, not everybody is doing exactly the same thing. Is that positives and negatives to each Enneagram number?
Sarajane Case: Yeah. And I think usually it’s the same thing, right?
So I’ll use myself as an example. I love freedom. I love happiness. I love feeling satisfied in my life. And that is beautiful because I make choices that involve myself care. I put myself first when I need to, I don’t sacrifice joy in my life and I’m willing to make whatever pivot I need to make in order to enjoy existence.
On the back end of that, the low side of that can look like I’m dodging out of things a little early. You know, trying to put too much on my plate because I don’t want to sit still putting, you know, giving myself away to the wrong tasks because they seem exciting at the moment. Leaving commitments before I really let them marinate and get really good.
And. So while on the high side, that’s great. On the low side, it doesn’t serve me. So we’re kind of looking for that middle ground.
Teresa: Okay. So let’s, let’s talk about it and I want it to go out. My husband is like, cause this is, this is, I just love this stuff. It’s so good. So my Enneagram is three with a wing two.
And my husband is a two and I don’t know what his wing is. I guess Mary would probably know what his wing cause she knows him pretty well, but let’s start off with me. So a three and a wing two. What does that mean?
Sarajane Case: So a three is dominant and the achiever. So that means that most of your life you’ve, you’ve built out a path to success, right.
In any circle that you’re in, you’re going to look for the upward trajectory. So that could be, if you’re a hippie, you’re going to be like the most hippie. If you are in the marketing world, you’re going to be, you’re gonna do the upper trajectory into being the best that you can be in this world. One descriptor as you seek to be a human ideal. So in every area of your life, you are constantly seeking like improvement.
Sarajane Case: Now you add that two, when you become a little bit more network oriented, you’re really good at connecting people, maybe a little bit more hospitable, like having people in your home, that kind of thing. You may also be a lot more community minded.
A three wing for is going to be a little bit more individual, a little bit more introspective, less outward focused.
Teresa: So this is where. This is why I love this so much because I can now look back and even like, look like a few days, a few months ago and years and years ago. So in school, I, my parents had to go into school and tell them to back off me because the pressure I was putting on myself was unbelievable.
So I would be sat there till God knows what time at night had to be the perfect homework, but university, I rewrote all my notes. Every lesson. I rewrote them to look beautiful. I read all the books. I did all this stuff. I’ve always been competitive. Since, for as long as I can remember. And, and from a career point of view have always wanted to be the best and the, the first and the, you know, that’s the thing. So again, that sort of stuff is, is amazing to hear that and to think about that. But then sometimes because I can be so dominant and competitive, and I think. Tell me if this is a three thing, not, I think I can be very single minded when it comes to like, I’m really good at work, so it’s like, all my focus goes into work because I know I can succeed at that.
And I avoid the stuff I can’t succeed at.
Sarajane Case: Yes. Yeah, exactly. And you can usually, most threes can pick up pretty quickly if they’re going to be good at something or not. And they’ll, they’ll avoid that relatively soon. So it’s like everything they try they’re really good at, but they may not try everything that they want to try.
Teresa: Yeah. Yeah. So then when it comes to the social side, I am life and soul of the party. I love a party. Always have fun, loved having people at my house, used to cook dinner parties all the time, love pleasing people. Like I love nothing more than cooking food and having people go, Oh, that was brilliant.
Obviously it needs to be amazing as well, because it has to be the best, you know. But one side of this, which I’m assuming is this three is, I’m a perfectionist and that is a nightmare. So I’m guessing that’s the wanting to be in control.
Sarajane Case: Yeah. Well, you know, if you think about it from a worldview perspective, threes are their worldview, the belief is that in order to be okay, you have to succeed, you have to constantly be achieving new things. And so if those, um, if something feels like it’s falling short, if it’s not the best that it can be, it feels like you’re failing. It feels like you’re not doing so then your whole worldview gets shaken.
Teresa: So. And then the two elements, cause that is the more kind and caring point of view. But what’s really interesting is cause my husband’s a two, but he’s not very community led at all. So he is really, he is the biggest people pleaser in my home. So he is the, he’ll make all the coffees, he’ll make the dinners.
He’ll sort out the dogs. He sort the house. He, anything that I need, he wants to give me. And, and he’s very kind and again with the children and he likes us all to get on really well. And, but he’s not social at all. So. That was really interesting when we saw that through that who element with him, because when I need to explain, as well as some of the content you share at these two ladies, what are their names?
Sarajane Case: Oh yeah. Elian and Michelle.
Teresa: Okay. So we’re going to link up to everything in the show notes and I’ll link up to their account because they are comedians, they’re American comedians. And they do the funniest ever videos and they act like, how twos and threes are. So for instance, the funniest of where he was Valentine’s day, cause this is just, it couldn’t have summed this up better if we tried. So a two for Valentine’s day, they were like, this lady was like, So, you know, “I’m going to do, I’m going to cook him breakfast and then I’m going to go and we’re going to watch his favorite game, and then we’re going to do this and I’m going to love it. And it’s going to be amazing.” And that was the two is completely giving isn’t it.
And again, if I said to my husband, that’s what I want to do. He’d be like, okay, that’s fine. And then the three, they act take the three and it’s like, “I want it to be perfect, but I don’t want to tell him how to do it.” No, that it means these two is the most perfect Valentine’s day, but I don’t want to tell him, like, I don’t want to give the details, but obviously we’re going to start with mimosas and our God, we were howling.
Cause we were like, that is completely the difference between him and I, and I think, like I said, when it came to the COVID-19 thing as well, he was very much about. Looking after the home, looking out for the people in it being concerned about, are we going to have everything we need? Are we going to be able to like, he’s the one who was going to the shops and all that sort of thing.
Whereas I was like, “Right, I need to do a master class. I need to do this. Come on people. We need to write a plan. I’ve got the kids write in plans. Well, you’re going to get up at eight. We’re going to be doing this. We’re going to be having games night. We’re going to like stuff that we wouldn’t normally do”, but I just kick into action.
And like I said, for me, it was so fascinating to see. The difference and to understand our perspectives. And I’m guessing that that’s one of the beauties of it from a relationship point of view, to see what each other’s like.
Sarajane Case: Yeah. I mean, I think most of our lives we’re spending in one worldview, right. We’re thinking everyone is operating this way. And so giving the opportunity to see, Oh yeah, this isn’t your way of living. You don’t view the world through my same lens. You have a completely different lens. So of course we’re ha we have completely different behavior. And I think with all of the stuff going on in the world right now, a big thing that’s happening is we’re learning a big part of the Enneagram is that these are kind of our coping mechanisms.
This is what we learned along the way we had to be like, this is what, what will keep us alive, help us survive and put us in good standing in whatever way. We’ve. Kind of chosen to do that. And so in that regard, I think one, we’re more likely to see kind of a heightened version of our coping mechanisms right now. You know, no matter what your type for you and your husband, it’s going to be, he’s probably going to go into helper mode, which can lead a little bit to some resentment and that stress place, as he starts to feel like he’s giving too much and he’s not getting what he wants in return, or he has an unspoken expectations.
For our threes with our, you know, it goes into, I needed to do, do, do, do, do. I can’t let the fear of like, what if I slow down during this time? And I don’t keep on my upper trajectory can become a really big thing. And then in that stress plays, a lot of threes really need that downtime. They need to shut off, shut down, and that’s a hard place for almost threes to go.
Just like the resentment’s a hard place for our twos.
Teresa: Yeah. And so I think that’s, I guess my next question then, so let’s say, you know, if someone sat there and think they’ve identified this, how do we, how do I manage this three? How do I, now I know, yes, that is absolutely me. And like you said, it’s a really, it’s a really, like, I’ve just looked into the mirror and you’ve just exposed me for who I am and what I’m like, and for the good and the bad, you know, so.
How do you, how do I use that my day to day life? Is it just a case of being aware? Oh, that’s why I did it. Or is there something I can do about it?
Sarajane Case: Yeah. So I would say a step one is creating separation between you and the number. So, um, recognizing that you don’t actually have to be that thing that you are okay.
You’re safe even when you take that off. So some people describe it as armor and that’s armor that can be released or let go of, or one of our prep tactic mechanisms. Um, so we don’t have to hold onto these identities. So I don’t actually have to be the fun one. I don’t have to be happy. I can be safe and good and loved even in my darkest times.
And that’s like the first thing to learn. Because we don’t have to be our number. The second thing is learning to create space between our thoughts and our reactions. Right? So our first action is usually right in line with what our type pattern does. So something catastrophe, you know, catastrophe hits.
Our first response is the quickest access point that we have to survival, which is our type structure. And then, but if we can. Create a little bit of space and time between that thought, okay. I’m I feel threatened. Well, then I get to choose how I respond. It don’t have to just operate out of how I’ve consistently operated before.
And then the next thing again, is allowing yourself to add tools. The Enneagram really is a map, right? It’s information, and we get to add the tools and things in place to help us. To work with it. So a lot of what I did in my book is I tell you about your type, but then I also add in, here are some tools that might be particularly helpful to your type structure because we do, we need support in the work.
Teresa: Okay. So kind of where some of those characteristics can tip over into the more, not negative side, but you know, the side that you wouldn’t feel so confident with. Did I read something about any of them saying that sort of, because I am an achiever titles and things are very important to me and to it because I think, and I remember, and this is so hard to make, cause God, it was so embarrassing. Years and years ago, I used to it for Landrover and I headed up the corporate marketing team and I loved that job and I made everybody know.
I love that job. And I was so irritating. Like you couldn’t have even held a two-minute conversation without me somehow getting my like thing and shoving it in there “look, look what I do.” Cause it meant the world to me, it was like, you know, “Hi, I’m Teresa, I’m head of the Marketing firm” you know love it and corporate. And it was like, when I look back now, I think, Oh God, that’s horrible.
And I guess as I’ve got older, I’ve chilled out about stuff like that, you know, I’ve realized that’s not bill Mendel, but looking back, I think, “Oh God, that, that I was hanging everything on that.” So again, I guess, tools to deal with those sorts of scenarios.
Sarajane Case: Yeah. And for our threes, a lot of times, you know, the work is around recognize is around presence and satisfaction with your day to day.
Because sometimes our threes, I talk about three is kind of doing this mountain jumping thing. Right. You climb the mountain. You get to the top. You’re like, I can’t get them out. And you look around, there’s a taller mountain. You haven’t yet conquered. So you have to climb that mountain. You get to the top of that mountain.
There’s another one. And the whole time along the journey, you’re having a miserable experience, right? Like, you’re just like, Exhausting. You’re tired. You’re stressed out. You’re overworked, but you’re like, once I get to the top of the mountain, then I’ll relax. But then you get to the mountain. There’s just another mountain.
And so the work for our threes is recognizing how can I enjoy the process and how can I make sure that I’m reminding myself to enjoy the process? Because the journey is going to be 90% of your life. 98% of your life is going to be the process, not the accomplishment.
Teresa: Yeah, that’s so good. And so like, is there a, you know, my daughter was asking about star signs at the day, which is really funny.
She’s obviously just, she’s 10, she’s just discovered she’s a particular star sign. And so now she’s getting to read what it all means and that’s the thing. So is there like certain Enneagrams that go better with certain Enneagrams like, so for instance, either in relationships or in work, so I’m about to bring on a, another, uh, VA.
Um, and I have two phone calls. Yeah, well phone calls. How old school am I, two zoom calls tomorrow morning to talk to them both to see what I think of them and that sort of thing. So is there like. And, you know, should I be getting them to do an Enneagram? And is that certain people that I would get on better with, because of my personality type?
Sarajane Case: So it’s really about making sure everyone’s doing the work.
So maybe you have people who feel more naturally inclined to connect to you because of your type. But in general, I think it’s really just, if everyone’s on a healthy to average, to a healthy level, you’re going to be able to get together and do the work. I, I’m slow to say that any number could potentially be better than another, um, for connection or for even employment.
I know in a lot of countries it’s illegal to use the Enneagram as a method for employment, because it can be essentially a form of prejudice. Like we’re saying like, “Oh, you are this thing. And if you are this thing, you. Can’t do this job”, but we don’t know that we’re not taking that person into consideration.
There’s so many factors to the Enneagram. So things to keep in mind is we have the wings. We have subtypes, we have lines, distress and rest, which go to two other numbers. And we have levels of health, low levels to high levels of health. And so within that, every person who is any number is going to show up way differently than another, you might see patterns and similarities and things like that add up. But for the most part, everybody has to be taken in as an individual.
Teresa: Yeah. Yeah. Good advice. So tell me about the subtype. Like what’s that again?
Sarajane Case: So the subtype, there’s three subtypes to every number. It’s, one-to-one self-preservation and social, and these are your instinctual variants.
They’re what you think you have to do to survive. So they’re kind of your primal instincts. We all have all three of them, but usually one is dominant and then we have a secondary and we have one that’s usually repressed. And they add flavor to your number. So self-preservation types are focused on like their physical safety, getting their needs met, cup creature comforts are social types are focused on where they are in the social hierarchy. And then our one-to-one types are focused on like deep, intense, emotional connection.
Teresa: So yes, they’re mine is social. Um, but yes, in my social and I would say, yeah, I need to check on my husband’s. I think his would probably be the more one-to-one or self-preservation thing, because again, he’s probably very good at. Is that, uh, looking after yourself points of view or is that a self-preservation in a different way?
Sarajane Case: Yeah. So, so for twos, it looks a little bit differently. So self-preservation twos can look a little bit like a four or like a seven. They tend to be the least overly giving least self-sacrificing of the twos, which are the most self-sacrificing type.
Sarajane Case: They tend to be a little bit more. They need to be helped a little bit more than the other twos do.
Um, the one-one, two is they call it the seductor, like the. Seduction. So they’re a little bit more like smoldering there, like intense connection, good eye contact.
Teresa: Oh that’s definitely my husband. That is so funny that he is much more about that. Kind of connection. He’s one of these people that when you speak to him, he will look solidly in your eye and very much like concentrate on you as a person, anybody he meets he’s like that, but then he wouldn’t be the one to one person who wants to go into, like, if I said to him, we’re going to have a party at our house.
He literally would have a breakdown. Like he would kill me. It would not be his bag at all. If we went somewhere and he met someone, he would just give him that his full attention and stuff. So, so yeah, this, I love all this stuff. Do you find yourself like when you meet people, can you pick up their Enneagram really quick?
Sarajane Case: Sometimes I can usually like put them in a couple of different numbers and so I can kind of get an idea. I’m pretty slow. I would never tell them that I have an idea. I might say, like, “Have you checked out this type?” Um, but normally I try to keep myself out of it and just kind of notice.
Teresa: Yeah. Yeah. I love that. It’s so good. And like I said, it’s more about, I guess it’s not about a tool to beat yourself up where it’s not it’s, you know, because I could be like, “Oh, that’s why I’m like that. That’s why I was a dick years ago” telling everybody I worked with Landrover. Oh, it’s so horrible, it makes me cringe.
Like, I don’t think that, but it’s more of a unlike. I said the time I did it and then what was happening, it literally was “A that’s why”, and then I could be so much more gracious, but when I was saying like, you know, “Come on. We could use this time for this and do this and do this”. And then some people obviously don’t want to do that.
And that makes perfect sense when there are all these varying types, out there who behave and act in different ways and, and that sort of thing. So tell me about your book then, because you’ve mentioned your book and what’s super exciting is as soon as I saw that you got book, I pre-ordered it. And I just looked just before this call and it says the release dates tomorrow here in the UK. So if it arrives tomorrow, that would just be amazing after the recording, but yeah. Tell us about the book then.
Sarajane Case: Yeah. So I love the way that you just described, not beating ourselves up with the Enneagram, because that is my objective for the book. I want you to feel held, supported, someone described it as a really friendly therapist. That’s my goal. I want you to feel like, yes, you’re being guided through this growth, but you’re not alone. You’re totally okay. You’ve not failed in some giant way. And you can actually speak to yourself in this process was so much compassion and love and understanding.
And I think if you are new to the Enneagram, if you’re experienced with the Enneagram, it’s a really good fit for either of you because. You are able to read it the way that I would speak to you. And hopefully that can give you a little bit of language into how you can speak to yourself with more tenderness, more understanding, and a lot more care.
Teresa: Yeah. So sorry, another question. And then we’ll give us like, what if I’m sat back going, but I don’t want to be this. Like, what if I am? I mean, I, I guess. Maybe everyone would feel this, but I’m actually quite happy about where I am, because I, that works for me in my life right now. But what if I’m sat there?
Like, I don’t know, you know, my husband’s a real giving character. Yeah. And like you said, he, he will do everything himself. He’s be like, no, I’ll do that. I’m not asking how, but I need you to help. I can do all this. I’ll cook dinner, I’ll clean up from dinner, but then he does get. Like I know now that I have to love on him so much, I am very appreciative, but I really have to go to tame on it.
But what if he sat there going, I don’t want to be like that anymore. I don’t want that. Like, is that something that people can, can they change? Can they, is it just a case of taking the tools and going, okay, let’s try and work with it? Or, or how does that work?
Sarajane Case: So all of our numbers, there they stay the same, like our worldview. Isn’t going to shift over the course of our life. However, our interaction with that can change. So. Most people actually, when they read their type are a little bit embarrassed, a little bit uncomfortable, maybe they feel like they’ve done something wrong. And so what we can do with that is we can say, actually, you are not your number somewhere along the way you learned that you had to be this.
And so can we hold compassion for the little kid that learned that message. So somewhere along the way, your husband learned that that love was earned and like how. Like that’s something to hold compassion for. That’s something to soften and say, okay, you learned that love was earned, but now that you’re an adult, and now that you are in a loving relationship, you can own the fact that love it was a nay that you get to be loved just for who you are, not for what you do.
And that, that process is a lot of the healing that we do have of those childhood messages that we received.
Teresa: And again, it’s super interesting because I’m sat here thinking I’m a third child of three girls. Okay. I have to fight, really hard and to make life even more complicated when I was five, my brother was born and my brother’s special needs.
So not only was he a boy of three girls already and he was special needs. So as like, as the youngest, I got their attention for maybe a small amount of time and then it all went onto him. So, I felt like, I think I had to like, go “Look, I’m here, I’m here, I’m here.” So, because I was going to ask, where does it come from?
Is it, you know, because when I look at my sisters, there is no way on this earth. They are the same Enneagram as I am. Like, I don’t know what they are, but there’s no way where the same I’m adamant of it. So is it, it’s not from a childhood as in the way we brought up, it’s just something, somehow something is developed that.
Sarajane Case: So there’s a lot of different schools of thought on it. There’s one that says you’re born with that type one that says it’s formed as your childhood wound. Another theory is called the soul child theory, which is that you’re the number you move to in health. So for type three, that’s going to be type six when you were a little kid and that somewhere along the way, it wasn’t safe to be that.
And so you’ve developed your type as a way to protect that kind of inner child. So type six is a lot of times they say type threes. When they were little kids were a little bit anxious, they worried about the world. They felt unsafe. And so they learned that if they could kind of power up and achieve and they could protect that little kid who was scared.
Teresa: Oh, okay. So that’s what you mean by like the types. So when you see the Enneagram, you have lines going across it. So a three would go to a six in health. You said though.
Sarajane Case: Um, so I really mean rest. It’s kind of like when you feel safe, open, relaxed, you’re going to show up a little bit more like a six, which is more community minded, more like a rising tide lifts all boats, um, less competitive, more like I want to help my neighbor kind of thing.
Teresa: Yeah. And I can, I do have a lot of that. But I do have a lot of the competitive stuff as well. So, and I have to be mindful of like, you need to knock that back a bit and just, and sometimes I’ll be like, Hmm. You know about something. And other times I’m like, no, let’s spread the joy in love. That’s absolutely fine. And then the other number that is the. Unrest. Did you say
Sarajane Case: it’s stress,
Teresa: stress of what’s that for a three?
Sarajane Case: For three moves to nine. And so this can look like some, a lot of threes have this kind of rollercoaster energy? Where you like, go hard, you go all in and you go, like you tan tan tan tan tan and then you crash.
So it’s kind of like, boooooghhh and I’m out. Um, and then you just kind of nines. They primarily focus on their peace of mind, but they do that through numbing. So they’ll kind of shut off to life. They might. You know, get in like a scrolling Instagram or watching TV or, you know, whatever their particular preferences for how they numb. Threes can kind of go into that space.
Teresa: That’s so good. Cause again, that has exactly me because I am, cause like you said, one thing we have to be really careful because we can burn out because I just don’t stop. But what happens is that this has happened yesterday. I have done an online conference this morning, quite early. So I spoke at that conference and the energy I bring is insane and I am very much like that. And then I spoke at another thing and then I had something else. And then I came off my final call at a couple of hours before I had this call with you. And I was at don’t speak to me. Don’t look at me. I don’t want to talk to you. And my husband finds amazing that I can come in the room with you and I come back, and I walk out of it like arghh.
“Don’t even look to me.” But it’s that kind of, and it is a roller coaster. Cause you said you were fine this morning. That was hours ago back. Like, I’m not fine now, just so you know. So, but it’s, I’m guessing it’s not. And it’s not a thing to use as an excuse either. It’s not like I can be miserable because that’s what my type is.
So I’m allowed to do that. So it’s not a, as much as it’s not a stick to beat ourselves up. It’s also not a way to like, be horrible to our partners because we’re like, well, that’s just my type I got out myself.
Sarajane Case: Well, I think it’s, um, the, I think with the three is a good example. Like we often we don’t give ourselves what we reject things in ourselves. So threes often reject rests. They reject complacency. And because you’re not comfortable being like still with an in, I want to say stagnant, like feels like stagnant, stillness. It feels like stagnation.
Sarajane Case: And so that’s stillness can feel like a failure. We don’t allow that to other people or we in that gets spread out where it’s like, why are you relaxing? Or we don’t let ourselves have it. And then the people who are closest to us usually get the backend, right? Like they’re not getting the, the false mask that we all put on, which is our type structure. Like my husband does not get the happy, easy, you know, lighthearted version of me, like the people who I don’t feel safe with get that.
My husband gets like me on the floor crying because I’ve had a stressful day.
And so we have to remember like, Oh, the best of me sometimes gets held back from those. I love the most.
Teresa: That’s so funny, isn’t it? That’s like. That’s really, really fascinating, but I guess it’s because we can drop that. That mask because safest zone or one of our safest zones. So we can just be totally honest about how you feel, but, you know, what’s sort of interesting to get it.
Like everybody listed to spell, like she’s just having a therapy session. What’s fascinating as well. We’re still on lockdown while we were doing this interview. My stepson. Can’t work. He also, doesn’t only work from college cause they’d been really rubbish. He’s got nothing to do. Um, that is driving me insane.
Right. And the thing is if I can come from love, which Mary teaches me all the time, I can go this poor boy. He’s got nothing to do. He must be so bored. That’s so awful for him, but when I’m coming from it, when I’m in my heightened, I’m working, working. Yeah. I literally can be like, by the fact that he’s doing the thing, because like I said, I can’t cope with other people having rest or going and taking the dogs for a walk or cause I’m not doing it, but obviously that’s.
No. And I think the deal with me that’s, you know, that’s the hard thing if they want to do that. And that’s cool. So yeah, nice.
Sarajane Case: Everybody in our life is really just getting the overflow of how we talk to ourselves. And so if we’re able to allow ourselves to rest, then it’s so much easier to allow others to rest.
But if we’re rejecting that within ourselves, then we’re going to reject that into in other people. And it’s re it’s really learning and the Enneagram can help you to do this to learn. What is it that I am not letting myself have, and therefore I’m not letting other people have to. So for me, mine, it’s negative emotions.
Like I do not like for people to come complain to me. I don’t like for people to come at me without solutions. Like, I want you to have like a positive attitude, positive mindset, growth mindset all the time. And like, people just aren’t like that. People are human. They’re not like that. You know? And I am like that because I suppress my humanity and some in that particular area,
Teresa: Yeah. So that’s going to be almost like a trigger point because you’re like, no, no, no. And then in someone else, you’re like, hang on a minute. I can’t do it. So you’re not doing it so good. Isn’t that? So, so good. So obviously your book here in the UK is being released any day and hopefully will arrive very soon.
It’s out in America already, and you’ve had some great feedback on it already. Which is awesome. I’m so pleased. Cause like I never, I have written a book many, many years ago and I don’t talk about it cause it wasn’t very good. I will. I say it wasn’t very good. I haven’t really read it again to tell you, but I, I do have visions and ideas that one day I would like to, but patience of actually writing a book. Uh, but you were just saying before we jumped on the call that. You literally like smashed their eye in a couple of weeks, which is insane.
Sarajane Case: Yeah. Well, I, you know, I did all the, I’ve had the research for several years and then I did all of the kind of out notes and things that I compiled. And then I just hunkered down, put myself, you know, I went to Copenhagen and, and hit out for two weeks and I only worked on that and put all those thoughts together and expanded on them. And put it out into the world. It’s crazy how much we hold in our brains.
Teresa: Yeah. And this just proves to me that because like, I never fear speaking anywhere, like, because I know you could say to me one word and I’ll talk for an hour, like on my subjects.
Cause I know it really well. So I guess if you’re writing a book, it should. Kind of just pour out of you a bit. Okay. So I just want to finish off. This has just been so good. And I could literally have you talked to me about this all night, but I’m showing listeners like, alright, Theresa, stop talking about yourself all the time.
So I want to talk to about your Instagram cause this, obviously we talk about a lot of social media and Instagram and people are going to be sat here, like, ah, sick that you’ve got, nobody people. So, tell me, like, I’m interested. Do you never intended to. You get this massive Instagram, you have a huge Instagram account. Do you get approached all the time by people to collaborate with, to have product from, and that sort of thing?
Sarajane Case: Yeah, I do. I get a lot of collaborations requests to the point. I, at this point, my assistant runs them all by me on Fridays because I like to say yes to things. So, um, she helps me to field all of those requests. Cause there there’s so many that do come in that it’s a little overwhelming.
Teresa: Yeah. Yeah. And do you think, is there any other marketing that you use other than your Instagram?
Sarajane Case: I have a podcast. Um, it’s not my primary marketing platform. So Instagram is my Instagram and I have an email list. And then I have two Instagram accounts. So
Teresa: Yes, cause you have your own under your name and then you have the Enneagram and coffee doing either.
Sarajane Case: Yep.
Teresa: So tell me about managing that Enneagram and coffee one. Cause that’s the big one. Well, obviously you’ve got two and your other, one’s still a fair size. Is it? Do you manage the DMS? Do you? Cause I know some people are gonna be sat there.
Cause my Instagram account is nowhere near, I’d say nowhere near. It’s like a drop in the ocean compared to yours. But it’s like 2,800, I think at the moment. And I get lots of DMS, which is lovely and it’s, I love it. And I replied all of them, but sometimes I it’s hard work and I’ve got two days a day, you’ve got, say, How, do you manage that?
Sarajane Case: Yeah. So with, I’ll say I’ll kind of contract, contrast and compare. So my Instagram account, my personal is 24,000.
Sarajane Case: I answer every single DM that comes into that account. My Enneagram and coffee. I hardly even look, I can’t even look at them. It’s so overwhelming that I, like I tried for about a year to really go in there every day and check them. And it’s just impossible. I tried handing it off to my assistant and it was kind of like, I gave her another full-time job in, and it’s usually people asking very specific questions about their, their needs. And, um, and so what I did is I just, in my bio, I asked for people to email me. And so I just couldn’t can’t check it, which is really weird for someone who with the other account, I’m able to answer all the DMS and I feel like I should be able to, but at one point I had to admit defeat.
Teresa: In all seriousness. I, yeah, you’ve, I don’t know how you would have how you would manage that. And I know there are some people like that, you know, Jasmine star, who’s huge on Instagram, like 200.
And I think she got 200 and something thousand and she does, and I don’t know how she does like. But that’s her thing. She, is an Instagram expert. So that’s why she’s got to answer these things. But I think it just does have to come to a point where you go, “No, that’s it. I’m done.” So other than posting.
So you post and you do Instastories, but they tend to be, your industries tend to be shared instastories. You do create an stories yourself.
Sarajane Case: Um, I don’t own that account on my other account. The Sarajane Case I do, I do a theme every day. Um, and I follow through with that theme every day on Enneagram and coffee, I mostly just share, I go live usually about once a week with somebody. Um, and then. Yeah, I mostly just share content or if I get tagged I’ll, I’ll repost it. If it’s relevant to my audience and every once in a while I’ll post something. But the kind of the tricky thing with that large of an account, if I do stories. It gets more questions and more DMs. And so at this point, I try to point people to the podcast point people to IGGB content or point them to my Patreon account where I can actually support them.
Because otherwise it’s pretty tricky.
Teresa: Yeah. I can, I can only imagine. Must be amazing. What’s the best craziest offer you’ve ever had. Like someone coming to you saying, will you take this product and take a photo of it? Like if you had some amazing stuff offered.
Sarajane Case: I have and I don’t say yes to a ton of stuff anymore just because I don’t mean anything. And, you know, I, I want to make sure my audience is interested in what I share, but it’s relevant to them. And if I just take on product offers and try and create content around it, they’ll see through that. Um, so I don’t, but. I, you know, I think my book was the craziest one probably is someone calling me and saying, “Hey, do you want to write a book?” And I’d be like, actually I already kind of started. And then yeah.
Teresa: That is that’s the dream, isn’t it. Someone coming to you going, do you want to write a book?
Sarajane Case: Yeah. If you had told like middle school, me, that that was gonna happen, I would have been like, thank you. That’s what I want.
Teresa: That is amazing. And honestly, it’s amazing because you know, again, like, if I wrote a book, I’d want it published.
I’d want publish it to come and want me to have it. But, you know, and like I’m saying these things very nervously, cause I’ve never said it before, but, um, but I would say the fact that someone came that is insane. Isn’t it? So good. Sarajane, thank you so much going on with, cause like I said, I could talk to you all night, but obviously the full list is like three hours later.
This is a really long, but thank you so much. And obviously I’m going to link up in the show notes to your book, to your, obviously your Instagram. I’m going to link to those ladies whose name. I forget all the time because they are so funny and a very good I, since like you said, I’ve since found lots of other video type things online as well, but. But they, to me are particularly hilarious. Um, and I will link it to everything and I urge people to, to go and buy the book and have a look at it. And just because for me, it just gave me a little bit. Yeah. Kind of my, uh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. That’s, you know, it gives me a bit of forgiveness and like you said, I can come from.
Kindness to myself and kindness to other people, you know, because I could sit there and go, well, what’s wrong with you? Why aren’t you jumping up and trying to do this at this time of view of what’s going on in the world and it makes me go, Oh, okay. Yeah, I get that now. So yeah, I definitely ask people to go out and take a look at that, but thank you so much, Sarajane, it’s been a pleasure to have you on.
Sarajane Case: Thank you so much for having me as blast.
Teresa: So I hope you enjoyed that episode. And like I said, if you are curious and want to find out more or know what Enneagram type you are, I will put a link in the show notes and also I’ll put a link to Sarajane’s book, which is excellent as well. It arrived and I read it. It was really, really good. Okay.
I will leave you to it for another week and I’ll be back next week with a solo episode until then have a wonderful week.