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Why You Shouldn’t Charge Your Worth and What You Should Do Instead

If you offer a one to one service or are thinking about it, you are going to love today's episode.

Janine Coombes, and I talk all about marketing for one to one services, discussing why maybe you shouldn't niche straight away in your business, and how you can price with confidence.

We also chat about why Janine doesn't buy into the philosophy of charge what you're worth, and how she advises to price with confidence at the level you want.

 

KEY TAKEAWAYS COVERED IN THE PODCAST

  1. Janine's ‘Reverse Niching Principle' explained
  2. How to confidently price high-value services
  3. Top tips for selling one to one services, focussing on risk removal and social proof

 

Janine Coombes is a marketing and sales strategist specialising in service offer positioning, pricing and sales for ambitious coaches and consultants.

She’s a dynamic and engaging speaker who has shared the stage with Deborah Meaden and regularly appears on internationally renowned stages such as Atomicon, MarketEd Live and You Are The Media.

With over 20 years of experience she has an extensive background in business and marketing having worked with big brands like EE, Orange and Europcar as well as hundreds of entrepreneurs and service based business owners.

Her sweet spot is helping coaches and consultants to earn drastically more from their 1:1 services without slogging their guts out or moving to a more complicated business model.

She has a business degree, a post-graduate marketing diploma (CIM Dip). She’s a skilled writer and one of the most creative content creators out there having garnered international attention with her sketch style show The Secret Marketing Show.

If you enjoyed this episode then please feel free to go and share it on your social media or head over to iTunes and give me a review, I would be so very grateful.

 

LINKS TO RESOURCES MENTIONED IN TODAY’S EPISODE

Download Janine's ‘6 steps to charging more with 100% confidence' workbook

Download Janine's ‘Coaching Sales JetPack'

Connect with Janine on Instagram, LinkedIn or Facebook

Connect with Teresa on Instagram, LinkedIn or Facebook

 

Transcript

Teresa: If you offer one to one services or are thinking about it, you are going to love today's episode. My guest and I talk around niching, pricing, and marketing your one to one offer. She shares why you shouldn't niche when you first start, and we discuss how pricing with confidence is key and why she doesn't buy into the charge what you are worth philosophy.

We also look at how you can more one to one clients. And how to successfully get testimonials from those clients you've been working with.

Hello and welcome to this latest episode of Your Dream Business. Thank you so much for taking the time out to listen to learn and to grow, which is something that as business owners, we should be doing all the time.

But I really appreciate that you have chose my podcast. And I know there are a ton of podcasts you can listen to, So I really do appreciate you being here and thank you so much for tuning in. So today we are going to be talking with the lovely Janine Coombes, all about Marketing your one to one service. Now you might be thinking, but Teresa, I don't have a one to one service.

Is this episode not for me? No, not at all. This episode covers so many good key foundations that actually, regardless of the services that you have, I think It's gonna really help lots of you out there. So we talk about pricing with confidence. We talk about niching, we talk about how to get more clients, and also things like how to get testimonials from people, which can be tricky and what to do if you don't have any testimonials.

So there is so much good advice in this podcast that you are not going to want to miss out in. I would even go as far as to say that you should probably share this episode with one of your friends, business buddies, whoever it might be that has a business. And if they are offering one to one services like coaching, then boy, this is for them more than ever.

So please do go ahead and share this with someone who you think it might be useful for. My lovely guest today is Janine Coombes. She is a marketing and sales strategist specializing in service offering, positioning, pricing, and sales for ambitious coaches and consultants. Her dynamic, engaging speaking has meant that she shared the stage with people like Deborah Meaden and regularly appears on internationally renowned stages such as Atomicon, Marketed Live, and You Are The Media.

With over 20 years experience, she has extensive background in business and marketing, having worked with big brands like EE, Orange, and EuropaCar, as well as hundreds of entrepreneurs and service based business owners. Her sweet spot is helping coaches, consultants, earn drastically more money from their one to one services without slogging out their guts or moving to a complicated business model.

So there is so much good stuff that you're going to get from today. I really hope you enjoy it. Without further ado, here's Janine. Janine, welcome to the podcast.

Janine: Thanks for having me.

Teresa: My pleasure. I realized that when I just said that I almost have like a podcast voice. Like I say things a certain way when I start the podcast.

It's very odd, but this is how I talk. It's just, I just noticed how I said that. I was like, Oh, I always say it like that. Anyway, just a little insight for you and the lovely listeners. So Janine, let's start as I always do, which one day I might change this up, but we'll keep with it for now by explaining to my lovely listeners who you are and how you got to do the thing that you do today.

Janine: Right. How? Oh, gosh. I mean, I could talk half an hour on that, but I'll try and keep it short and sweet. Hello, everyone. I'm Janine Coombes, and I help coach shaped people earn more from their one to one work without slogging their guts out. And it came to me, this, this mission of mine, over years. Over the many years of my marketing experience, my marketing career, and then working with service based business owners, like, it revealed itself over the years, and I realized that that's who I was working with.

I was trying to appeal to a broader market, but actually, when I drilled down in it, it's what I did and what I needed for my own business was to get clear on my offerings, my pricing, my positioning, and then do the sales and marketing. And that's what I love helping my clients with. And they do tend to be coach shaped people.

Teresa: Okay. Awesome. So you have a marketing background.

Janine: Yes.

Teresa: And how long have you had your business?

Janine: Just over seven years.

Teresa: So what were you doing before you did your business?

Janine: So my, my original career was in house marketing for service based businesses like was telecoms mainly and broadband. So EE, Orange, spot of national renter car and Europe car.

Yeah. And then I took a break to look after my kids or have my kids and look after them. Yep. And I didn't know whether I'd go back to my marketing career, because I kind of fell out of love with it to an extent, but I just couldn't keep my nose out. So I had some friends who were starting up businesses.

I was like, we don't want to be doing that. I think, you know, like Janine. Go away.

Teresa: I, that is me all over. I literally, this is why I have to be so careful with the services that I offer and how much time I give people because I can't help but go, Oh, I'll tell you what you should do. You should try. Because when you've been in marketing for such a long time, like, It's, it's in you, it's bred in you.

So that's cool. I like that you came from a marketing background. How did you find, I'm only asking this because this is something I struggled with. How did you find marketing yourself as opposed to marketing a service?

Janine: Well, funny you should ask because I thought, well, I'll set up my own business, you know, and at least the marketing will be easy.

Teresa: Yeah. Good luck with that.

Janine: Marketing yourself will be really, really easy.

Teresa: It's a nightmare.

Janine: I think it's been the most painful for me, nailing my own messaging. following through on the advice I give clients is hideous. I thought, you know, it took me a while because I thought I had to know all the answers.

I mean, this is another little knot I got myself into. I thought I had to know all the answers and be faultless. And, People would expect me to be on all the social media platforms, but I held myself up to such a high bar. I think I thought I was a big corporate and I knew my brand didn't need to be on point.

I had to have a perfect website and I needed to be on all the platforms and it was just ridiculous looking back. Absolutely ridiculous.

Teresa: That, you know, it's so funny because you do think, you know, this is the thing I'm an expert at. This is the thing I do with ease. So surely it's just a matter of just doing it for myself.

And it was the hardest thing and still is one of the hardest things like, you know, both you and I are in positions where we work with other people and we help them do their marketing. And yet you and I still need someone else to help us with our stuff because even though we know what to do, it's still not easy doing it.

Janine: Yeah, absolutely.

Teresa: There was like a million things I could talk about with you as, as you guys probably know, listening, when I ask people, either when I asked them to come on or they applied to come on, I get them to fill in a form that gives me like, where can we go with this? What kind of conversation can we have?

And there are like so many options for Janine that I'm like, I almost don't want to pick one. And I want to kind of scoot into each one of them. Cause I think it will, it will help. So let's start with you sharing your reverse niching principle. What do we mean by that? And, and the reason I'm asking this is because selfishly, which actually most of the podcast questions I ask are quite selfish because I like to know for my own business, which surely is one of the perks of having a podcast.

But selfishly, I am currently going through a new, I'm going through a business review and I'm about to do a rebrand and I'm just working on my customer profile questions for myself now and I'm debating moving down the niche type route. So I'm interested to hear your thoughts on niching. So what do you mean by reverse niching principle?

Janine: What I mean by it, so the context, let's start with the context. I think there's so much about niching or niching and the riches are in the niches and people talking about it and I think And people who are just starting out in business, how on earth can you niche? Like, how can you, how can you niche? Like, I can only think of a few people that I've come across who, who have a, like an obvious niche where they obviously should go sharper with their messaging from the get go.

And even after years, like I found my niche pretty much it was last year after like six years. And it was, it was a gradual thing. And what really helped me was thinking about it less about the niching of your whole business. So like top down, but actually thinking about being clear on who you were targeting with each offer, which is why I call reverse, call it reverse niching.

Cause you're not thinking about, okay, Who is my ideal client for my whole business? You're saying, okay, I've got a series of offers. I've got one or two main offers or however many offers you've got could be like 50 courses, but each of those individual offers have an ideal client for each. So that is more important question.

I think is for each of your offers, are you clear on who's going to buy it and why they would buy it? And for each of those offers, The target market or niche, if you wanna call it that. It could be very wide or it could be very small and it doesn't matter. And for me, it was much easier to think, okay, for each of my offers and for a lot of my clients as well, who is your ideal client for each of the offers?

And then what's the theme there? Is there a theme? And then that can be your niche and it's almost bottom up. So you're looking at your offers, and then you're looking upwards and saying, oh, okay, actually my brand as a whole is appealing to these people.

Teresa: So there's a couple of things I want to pick up on that you said there.

The first one is very few people can niche the minute they start. I wholeheartedly agree with that, because at this point, and I've got someone actually in my world that is just starting in the coaching world. So she has a full time job and she's starting the coaching on the side. And the ultimate aim is to move fully into the coaching and stop the job.

And she came on a call the other day and was like, I'm not sure I should niche. I'm not sure how I should do this. I'm not sure what my branding should be targeting. I'm not sure this. And I'm like, at the moment, I just don't think you can because you haven't had enough experience in it. You don't know what you like.

You don't know what you don't like. And like I said, the reason I was selfishly asking this question is because 10 years in, I'm still questioning, should I be niching more? Should I not be niching more? So that was the first thing that I want to say that is brilliant. So if you are listening to this and you are early days in your business, do not be freaking out that you haven't got a niche, because actually I think you need to try so many different things like, and work with that person and go, Oh, I hate that. Don't want to work with those businesses again, work with that person and go, Oh, I love that business in that industry that, and actually I work really easily in that industry. So I think that is first awesome thing to think about.

Also, I love the idea of, and again, selfishly, this is a really good exercise for me to do is am I clear on the different products? Now, being in business for 10 years means I have a ton of stuff, right? A ton of stuff. And yes, I have some core products that I sell, like the membership and the exec club and the group coaching program.

However, like I have a ton of stuff and I'm constantly going, I really should do more with that. I have a whole course on how to build an email list. I barely talk about it. Like I have a whole thing, this, this, this, but actually, Looking at those products individually and going, who would be the perfect customer for that?

Because I think I've got an idea for the overall arching customer. However, there is a disconnect and this is why I'm looking at it. There's a disconnect between who I want my perfect customers to be and the products and services I offer. So actually, starting the other way around and going, what are these aimed at?

Then I can, it's just a different way of looking at it. So I loved that. I really, really loved that. So when you decided on a niche, how do you then get clear on saying, this is how I'm going to go after these people. And I want you to answer the question as well, in terms of like people often fear me included doing a niche because I don't want to put people off.

And I don't want to, because I work with such a wide range of people. I love it. I don't want to suddenly go, Oh no, I can't work with you anymore because that you're not my niche. So what, give me your thoughts on those two very different questions that I've given you once.

Janine: So how do you go after the, but I think that's the easier question. How do you lump it to that niche? I think If you do take this iterative approach and you're like, okay, I like working with these people. I like working with these people less. You kind of get a feel for where they are and where they're hanging out and how to speak to them.

And you know, whether do your book podcast or a blog or whatever. And I mean, a lot of come, a lot of that comes from your own personality and skill set and likes and dislikes. So I'm of the opinion that it should fit you as much, if not more than the client. Like, you know, you could be, there's a florist who does really, really well on LinkedIn, you know, people, a marketing consultant would tell her to be on Instagram.

Yeah. Why, why are you focusing all your time on LinkedIn? She's doing brilliantly there because she likes it. She knows the lay of the land. She knows how it works and because she enjoys it, she does it more. So.

Teresa: Yeah. And I think that's really important as well to say around You've got to want to do the thing that you're, you know, so if, like you said, Instagram isn't your thing, but LinkedIn is, or the other way around.

If you don't want to do a podcast, but you love speaking on stage or you like writing, then it's still got to be in line with you. You can't just go, well, customers would love this in this niche. So I really must go down that route. And actually, I guess for her, she is a big player in a small pond of florist on LinkedIn.

Janine: Yeah. So it's the only person I know. The only florist that, yeah.

Teresa: Yeah. 'cause I would go to Instagram. So the other thing, my brain keeps coming and going. I've got so many questions. I keep writing things down and like I'm not focusing very well 'cause there's so much to talk about. So the one thing I wanted to say was, and the reason I'm looking at my niche, and again I just wanna get your thoughts on this, is when I interviewed Amy Porterfield for the summit, one of the things that Amy said.

Which I thought, I don't have that, is Amy is known for online courses, right? You want to go to Amy? You want an online course? You go to Amy. Like, she has done the same thing for like 15 years, taught the same stuff, showed up in the same places, has completely got her niche that like, like you said, you know, If someone thinks online courses, you think Amy Porterfield, if you're in that world.

And I just didn't have that thing, right? I don't have a thing. And I was talking to Katie Caldwell, who's redoing my brand. And in our preliminary conversation, we're going to have a proper one soon. But I said it, I said it jokingly, but I kind of like, I am fairly serious. And I think I could say this to you because I think you're probably the same.

The thing is I can do so much, right? I have had 20 years now, I've had 10 years marketing for other people and 10 years in my own business. I'm a qualified coach. I've done all these things. I am really good at a lot of stuff, right? There is not much I can't help on in a small business marketing mindset, online business, building your profile type of way.

But I was really perturbed by the fact that I'm not known for a thing and also This brings me to the next part of the niche of what is the transformation that people get with me? It's not clear. Like, I'm just basically asking you to comment on this so I can pick your brains on it.

Janine: Fine. Yeah, let's do it. I mean, the thing is, right, so Amy's known for digital courses.

That's one way to do it. Like if, if you spoke to somebody else, it's interesting because some people you talk about niching and they immediately assume you're talking about industry.

Teresa: Yes.

Janine: You know, Amy doesn't only do digital courses for accountants.

Teresa: No.

Janine: So actually her target market is, is everyone, anyone who possibly wants to do an online course and it doesn't matter if it's the first course or their 50th course.

Like actually I would have, I would have said her niche is really, really, really broad. Yeah. So that's interesting that you feel like she's niched, because I would have used her as an example of big broad.

Teresa: I think you're right. I think in the traditional sense of the customer and focusing on the customer, she's not niched because like you said, any industry, any business, any, anything, she's niched in the, I guess kind of in the outcome, the outcome is if you want a digital course, go learn from Amy.

Janine: Wow.

Teresa: So I think that's the bigger question, isn't it? It's more about the various ways. There are so many different ways to niche as well, but it's not just like I deal with women who are 35 years old with two children called Jane and Sam, like that's not the only niche. So how do you feel about then the niche from a being the known person and where does the transformation conversation come into this?

Janine: Oh, such juicy conversations. So I feel like, I mean, I feel like I could probably describe your niche. It's more person based. Yeah. But I would say that you, you are a credible person, you know, the go to person for digital marketing. That's what I would have said you were.

Teresa: Well, thanks. I'll take that. I'll take it. Thanks.

Janine: I'm going for that because I thought I was going to say that and go, no, it's actually geez.

Teresa: You're so off the mark. Well, do you know what was funny was the other day someone called me a social media expert and it's like, I have not done that in years. So I was really put back by like, Oh God, Like, do people not know what I do?

So, I think Like, I think the thing that people could get from this whole niche conversation is it's really freaking hard. Like this is not an easy conversation and it's not an easy decision to make. Do you have any like, so, you know, the first tip is like, you go to your products, who are the individual people that you're serving in your products?

And then what about if they're nervous to, to put their niche out there?

Janine: If you weren't nervous to put a niche out there, you've got to make a decision. It's the old classic, if you don't make a decision, then you're making the decision. It's like, put a niche out there, you are deciding to be wishy washy and not appeal to anyone.

Teresa: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's, and the face that Janine just pulled, that was like, should I have said that? But no, you're right. Like, no, you've made the decision by not making the decision, you're making a decision. And that is to just not be clear with your messaging, which could be right, could be wrong.

That's yet to be seen for anybody and everybody, you know, but you are making a decision. So yeah, that's super interesting. Okay. Let's talk about, I'm just literally scanning down these various things, which I want to talk about. Let's talk about, and what I love about having Janine on it is she's quite, a lot of the stuff she says is, is almost like divisive, but that's why I want to ask the question because I'm like, Oh, what do you mean by that?

So, why you shouldn't charge your worth and what you should do instead? What, like, because that is a buzzword of, you know, charge what you're worth. And it's such a kind of open question, like, well, sorry, what is that? Is there a calculation I can work out what I'm worth? So yeah. What do you mean by that? And what should you do instead?

Janine: It's, it's interesting actually. I kind of came upon this opinion. A couple of years ago, I was working with a coach of mine, mindset coach, and I can't remember what problem I was noodling over. I said, you know, because I tell people that they should charge their worth. And, and she said to me, she knew me very well.

And she was like, do you? Do you tell people that? And I was like, no, I don't. Why did I say that? It's never about your worth. It's never about your worth. It's about the worth of what you're selling. It's about the transformation. It's about they were here and they're going to get to here. It's the journey.

It's where you're helping them get to, like, it's not you. I think that's a really dangerous path to go down. It's like, what is my worth? I mean, God, we don't need to think about that, do we?

Teresa: It's a heavy question to decide, isn't it? And, and, and like with most things in business, you know, some people have a real inflated opinion of themselves.

And also some people have an opinion of, this is one of the things that this isn't, it wasn't a coach, but someone offered a service that wasn't very much per hour. It was like, I don't know, 20, 30 pounds an hour. However, and I was in a group situation, so I'm doing an in person event and this person says this is what I'm charging.

And a few people in the room go, Oh, that's not enough, charge more, charge more. And I had to stop them and go, would people even pay it? Because I wouldn't. If you charge more for that thing, I wouldn't pay it. Now it's not to say that no one would pay it, but you will. You do have to understand. what it means to them.

And there are certain things that are going to, you know, potentially feel like you're more willing to invest in other than in other things. So if something's a hobby or a luxury or a nice to have, you might not want to invest in those things. You might find that even more important and want to invest in those things.

But if it's a business or it's going to give you a real clear transformation and you really want that transformation, then you might want to pay more for that. So it's a real tricky one, isn't it?

Janine: Yeah. Yeah. And I know exactly what you mean. I've come across a few people. I've actually been, now, this is going back quite a few years now, first or second year of business.

And I was in a sales coaching program, group program, I suppose you call it. And there was this woman in it, and she was trying to sell this thing, and I just thought, that is not gonna sell. Doesn't matter what you charge, it just isn't going to sell. And the sales coach just didn't pick up on it. She was just like, oh, you just need to sell more, more posts, more emails.

Just sell, sell, sell. Honestly, it just is not a logical thing that somebody would buy. You get a gut feel, I think. I think it's like, if I may blow my own trumpet, it's like the 10, 000 hours of experience type of thing. You start to get.

Teresa: In a heartbeat. You can be like, I don't think that's going to work. at that price to those people, I'm not sure that's going to work.

So, and then there's always exceptions to the rule. And  personal trainers is an example I give where there, people would say there is a ceiling for personal trainers and there kind of is a price that personal trainers charge around. However, personal trainers to the stars, they're not charging that hourly rate, are they?

So again, they've kind of got in on something where they're really desirable and people of influence want to work with them and therefore they can charge more. So pricing is like one of the hardest things, especially as a coach. So give me some kind of, you know, if someone's sat here and they're a coach or they're selling their own service, how do they even start down this route? Where do they even start to think about how they price themselves?

Janine: Oh, and so it is a little bit how long is a piece of string. Yeah. I do have a little exercise I can take people through, which gets them clear. Oh, I can share that. It's my child more guide and it shows, it just takes people through the process of really getting to grips with the huge value that they're providing and just step away from that.

How much is it per hour and how does it break down and comparisonitis and that kind of thing. And it's just getting clear on where are the people know who you want to help. Where do they want to be? Like, what does it mean to them to reach that destination, to leave their old world behind and be at their new destination?

Like, some of the people I, I work with, their work is life changing. It could be life or death. Like some of the, the health practitioners and wellness experts. It can be life or death. It can be avoiding thought disease and you know, all sorts of things. It's like literally life or death. So the value is, becomes massive and they start to connect with like how much value they actually deliver to people.

It kind of reminds me a little bit of going back to when I was, when I was helping people, I didn't realize I wanted to go back into marketing for my own business. I didn't know whether I wanted to leave the marketing world behind, but then I, what I saw other people doing. Which was obvious to me as a marketer, but to them, it wasn't obvious.

So it's making sure that you're reminding yourself of your hidden value. You've, you've forgotten how valuable what you do is. You've forgotten that what is easy to you is really, really difficult, if not impossible to someone else. So it's reminding yourself of that. You can definitely look, if you're desperate, you can look at what equivalent people are charging, which is when working with somebody like me or you can help because we've got We kind of know what people are charging and you don't have to expose yourself to other people's messaging and then, and then feel awful.

Teresa: Yeah, and that's the other thing.

And it's like a case of, you know, I've had things where I have, I've charged one price for something and someone else has almost come out with the same thing and it's like 50 quid and I, mine was like 500 quid and it's like, so again, that's really tough because it's like, are they undervaluing what they're offering or am I overvaluing it?

So I think. For me, it's your confidence. That's the key thing. Like, and I think if you go through this exercise that Janine's got, and we'll make sure we, we link up to everything, we'll get some links at the end. But if you go through that exercise and you're confident with what you're charging, then it doesn't matter if someone thinks it's too expensive.

It doesn't matter if someone charges less than you. You don't have to suddenly go, Oh my goodness. And it almost, it doesn't matter if someone charges a lot more than you. If you're confident and can convincingly tell people this is what I charge and this is why, then that makes up for all those other things.

Janine: Yeah, exactly. You've got to know that what you're charging is a good rate. It's going to make you feel good. Like when they, when you say the price and they go for it, you're like, yes, you're going to be happy. Like quite a few people I've worked with in the past, they'll get a new client and they think, Oh my God, I've just undersold myself again.

Teresa: Oh, that is the worst.

Janine: I've, I've spent, I've charged less than I wanted to again, or, or even more comically, they negotiated themselves down on call. They say the price, but actually I could give you a discount.

Teresa: Yeah, and they haven't even said anything yet. It's like, you haven't even.

Janine: But it's like,

Teresa: Great. Thanks. I'll take it. It's who wouldn't? Like, I had, I have such a funny story to tell you. So. I, in my world, like obviously I work with lots and lots of business owners and sometimes I work with some of the business owners and I think, I love your service. I want to use your service. And one of those people is Katie Caldwell from Geek Boutique.

And she did all the rise above stuff. And I am going, like I said, through this process of, I think I want a rerun. And by the time this episode comes out, hopefully it might even be at the point where we start sharing it. Let's hope so. But I went to her and said, and she's in my world, I've coached her for quite some time now.

and said, Katie, I'd like to do a rebrand. Can you send me some pricing and some options? And she's like, yeah, yeah, fine. So she sends me this proposal, three different options on there. And I'm looking at it. I'm like, I really want to do the middle one, but I really want to pay the level one. Like in an ideal world, I'd like the middle offer, but at the lower price.

So I went back and there's nothing wrong with this. It's a negotiation. It's fine. I went back to her and said, Katie, that's awesome. Love it. Definitely want to work with you. Can you do anything on the price? That's kind of the very general question I would ask. I'd love to go with the middle one, but if you can do something on the price, that'd be awesome.

So she came back to me and said something along the lines of, you know, great, really excited, want to go ahead with you. I, I have priced it. What did she say? Something along the lines of it's good pricing. In fact, I'm about to put my prices up. I can reduce the price, but we'd need to remove some of the elements out of it.

Please let me know what you'd want and we can work towards it. Right. And I went back to her and said, as your coach, that was a brilliant email. As someone who wanted a bit of a discount, bummer. But I went back to her and went, I'll take the middle one. Thank you very much. As anybody who is in any kind of conversation, there is nothing wrong with saying, is there a discount?

Do you offer a discount? Like, can you do anything on the price? I don't think there's anything wrong with that. So we shouldn't be like, if people ask, But she stood her ground and she said, no, she said, it's a really good price. My price is actually going up soon and I can change the price, but that list of things that we included, we will have to remove some of those things.

And I was like, that was brilliant. That was, and she's like, you're, you're a, what did she say? You're the. something of your own success. Basically, like

Janine: I taught you too well.

Teresa: Yeah, that's it. Now I don't get a discount. Like, I think that is part of it. It's that confidence element that you go in and go, this is what I charge. Done. And also for me, just adding on the kind of pricing conversation before we move on is, You've got to know what you charge.

And I know that sounds like a ridiculous thing, and I'm glad Janine's nodding. Like, I have lots of people who I would say what to charge, you know, an hour or what, what's your rough cost of that?

And they'd be like, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh. And it's like, No, because now my confidence in you is lost. I need you to go. This is what I charge or normally for this type of thing it's this, however, I need to go into more detail or I need to look at this or whatever. Or if you don't even want to guarantee that you could say between this and this, but it depends on all of the things, but I at least want some level of, okay.

And even if you say, I can't give you a price right now, but I will have a quote to you by an just doing the whole thing with confidence. The minute I get a feeling of someone going, then I start thinking, Oh, hang on a minute. I don't feel good about this whole situation. So yeah. Awesome.

Janine: And it's a shame, isn't it?

Cause I mean, especially with my clients, they're coaches, they're not, that doesn't mean that they're bad coaches.

Teresa: No, no, not at all.

Janine: People are perceiving like the price is a perception tool, isn't it? It's a positioning tool. And if you don't come out with a confident price, And you know your pricing and you can stand your ground and you know why you're charging what you're charging.

People are going to perceive you in a certain way and it's, it's, it's, you know, it's not fair in a way, but that's just the way it is.

Teresa: A hundred percent. And you're right. It's not fair because that's not a skill that makes you a good coach or not a good coach. And the same with, you know, if you're a graphic designer or web designer or whatever, that, that isn't the skill you need to do your job.

However, when you are dealing with people, I think the confidence of going, yes, I'm, I'm good. You know, that's why I charge what I charge, you know, or, and it doesn't even have to be confidence from a high price point of view. It could just be, you are confident in what you're charging. It's not that, you know, you only have to have confidence if you're willing to go in with a higher price.

So, okay. Let's talk next. Like I said, we're all over the shop, but I love all this conversation. It's great. I want to focus on the one to one work because this isn't something that we focus a whole lot on, but it is something that lots of my audience do. Even if they have an online business, they will have an element of one to one or maybe they're Maybe they started in a more group thing and they want to go into one to one, but finding those one to one clients, especially when it's a big investment.

So give me a few, what are kind of some of your best tips for selling the one to one stuff?

Janine: Hot tips for selling the one to one stuff. I mean, some of it is quite rudimentary and things that listeners will know.

Teresa: Give it them anyway. We all need a reminder.

Janine: So it's things like putting a clear call to action on things.

I've had quite a few conversations with clients over the years. They're like, it's just not selling. And then I look at their posts and their emails and there's just either no call to action or a really, oh, if you wouldn't mind and you think that maybe it could possibly help, maybe, well, probably wouldn't, but if you could, then maybe DM me one day.

Teresa: If you want, don't, don't even.

Janine: You know, really funny stuff. And I mean, that's a quick, quick fix in theory, just not, you know, even just the content of what you're putting out, not putting enough sales content out, like our job as a business owner, whether it doesn't matter what business you're running, you have taken up part of the responsibility to do sales, whether you like it or not, you've got to get over yourself and do some sales.

So you've got to make sure that if you're creating content, some of that content have to help people make a decision and it's not just pure value. I was having a conversation with a client earlier about this and she knows that she's like, I've been dealing out content, you know, value, value, value the years and people just aren't getting on a call because she's, she's not putting out any sales content and then they, they get towards the book a call, you know, book a sales call with her and then they ghost her or they cancel and it's you know, her clients in particular, quite nervous and they don't want to expose themselves.

So you've got to really connect with where are they now? What is the best call to action for them? What is the path of least resistance? How can you reassure them that they're making the right decision, that you're not going to do a hard sell on the call?

Like you've got to treat your client, you know, And the wonderful thing about coaches is they tend to be very empathetic and sort of know the answers to these questions without too much research. But just meeting people where they are in that, in your content, in your call to action and how you are trying to help them get to the next step.

Teresa: What would you say about, as you start talking, you know, limiting belief comes into my head of, it's hard to sell one to one because of the investment and because of the, you know, especially if you're comparing it to an online business of like, here's a $40 course that's going to help you get to X, Y, Z.

Whereas explaining, in fact, there's many questions ahead. The first one is the process is harder again, could be a story I'm telling myself, but it's a much more considered longer thing. It's not a, Oh, there's a course for 40 pounds. I'll just buy it. So how do you deal with that first off? Because this isn't, someone's not going to put out a social media post tomorrow and suddenly get a client.

I mean, they might let's hope the so, but yeah. What what. Would you say about the marketing, because it is a longer term conversation and a, someone might need to see you for quite a while before they eventually take the lead?

Janine: Yeah, that's fair enough. I think you're right. It's never, it's rarely going to be an impulse purchase.

I think there's a certain proportion of the population who are impulse buyers and they might buy something alternate impulse, but it's unlikely. It's going to need a longer nurture possibly more social proof, possibly more risk removal. Yeah. I'm just trying to think of some of the, some of the purchases I've made in recent years that have been very high ticket and it's taken me, it felt quick to me, but it took me like nine months a year from now as a person to reading some of the content, to maybe having a sales call one patch.

I can think of, I ended up taking a lower price, but still relatively high ticket thing. And then, then I took the leap to something more expensive. So you don't necessarily have to have that value ladder effect. But it's just one of the tools you can explore in your own business, but yeah, it does selling one to one.

It tends to be less launchy based, which could be good for people.

Teresa: Because launches are hard work.

Janine: Yeah. And it's a weird, it's weird because on the one hand. You can say, okay, you need to build your profile more, you need more content behind you. But on the other hand, if you are new to business, selling one to one is the way to get cash quickest.

We already know you, you know, the quickest way to do is just family and friends. I'm launching this business. This is exactly what I do. Oh, I'm hoping to do with people. Just send me some people. Yeah. Who can I speak to?

Teresa: That is funny. So that isn't that funny in terms of like, you're right. The, the one to one is the easier sell in some ways, because you would just go, do you know anybody who needs help with this? this is what I'm doing. So there's a couple of things you just said there, which I really like. I like the fact they said risk removal. That's really nice. So, you know, talking about, I guess, well, give me an example of what you would mean by risk removal.

Janine: Okay. So the three main reasons people don't buy is they don't think you're the right person.

They don't believe in you yet. They don't believe that your process will give them the results they want yet. or they don't believe that the results you're saying are possible for them, which is often the kicker if you've done everything else. It's like, actually, it's all right for those other people, but they're confident and they're outgoing.

And I'm a little thinking violent here or whatever mind mindset things they've got going on with themselves. So if you can hit those three things, in your content, wherever you're showing up and show proof of those things in each level, you can remove a lot of the risk for people.

Teresa: So, say them again.

Janine: Removing the risk that whether you're the right person for them or not.

So, that's about establishing your credibility, being visible in the right places, sharing the, you know, sort of the know, like, trust kind of content, maybe. Removing, the doubt in their mind that your process will work for them. So that possibly is about sharing testimonials, social proof, case studies, explaining why and how you put your process together and why it's robust and works.

And the final one is removing the risk that it's not going to work for them. So again, it's sharing the right types of testimonials. So people like them in situations like them have achieved results that they want.

Teresa: Such good points there. I love that. And the other thing you said, which I'm going to ask a couple of questions on is the social proof element, right?

Now there's two things here that I want to touch on. One, what if you have none because you've not done it before? And two, coaching solely relies on the other person being A willing to be coached and B doing a chunk of the work. So what if, yeah, what, what would you do if, if you don't have the social proof that you really do need?

Janine: So if you don't have social proof that you need, you can attack this a couple of different ways. So when you're working with people, if you're any good at what you do, and I only work with, I only work with the best, obviously, who are really good at what they do, but they will be people, people say things through calls.

They'll say, Oh my God, I've just heard the amazing, most amazing light bulb moment. Oh, I've just seen this in a completely new, new way. Oh, I've been doing this all wrong. Like if you can capture that, You don't have to, with that permission, you could share it as a mini testimonial, but you don't, if you're not able to, you know, some of them are just little mere snippets, but they capture a moment where somebody's had a breakthrough, you can, you can have that little snippet, but don't attribute who actually said it and just say it was a client.

And if, if they don't want to be referenced, you can share key details to make sure that it's as anonymous as that needs to be. But that's one way to go about it. If you're newer and you just haven't had the volume of clients or any clients at all, then it is possible that what you need to do is just get some people pro bono through your process and just get a few clients under your belt because.

The inspiration you get from actually working with people just felt the underestimated, just knowing that you're helping people and you're moving the right direction. You're getting those right noises from people that they're getting some, it's, it's almost as good as getting paid.

Teresa: Almost. But the mortgage company are not keen on testimonials as.

Janine: They're not keen on testimonials.

Teresa: Which is a shame because you know, I'd have paid off my mortgage already.

So this is something that's, what's interesting about being in you know, this world, even as a marketer is that we need constant reminding of this stuff. So I am really bad at getting testimonials, like really bad. And I noticed on something the other day, like I literally didn't have one testimonial saying I was any good.

And it's like, That's one of the things that we need to constantly be in the habit of doing. And also Becci, who helps with social media, she was like, can we put this testimonial out? And I was like, no, that was years ago. Like, I don't want to put like, no one knows how long it was, but I knew. And I was like, no, I don't want to put that out.

It was years ago. And But then I thought, I've not been very good at getting any, like, so I think it's, it can be really tricky. So just as a, as a quick aside, have you got any tips in terms of getting testimonials and getting people in to tell you nice things about the thing that you did?

Janine: Yeah. So tip number one is the one I've already shared is, is capture those little moments because they're very valuable and as valuable as anything else.

The second thing is make it part of your rough boarding. That is what happens at the end of working with somebody, you send them a set set of testimonials, what can work really well is having an interview with them, like an interview style testimonial and video it, that can be extremely powerful. Having said that, you don't have to wait till the end.

Sometimes the biggest light bulb happens a month, two months into working together. And if you don't capture that, the moment passes and they forget that key pivotal moment. By the time you get to the end, they're like, Oh, that was nice.

Teresa: Yeah. It wasn't as.

Janine: My whole world has changed, but was that really to do with the coach?

Because you know, I did a lot of the work myself and of course they have done if it's a coaching client. Of course they have done a lot of the work themselves, but they forgot me that key moments. So sometimes if that, when that key moments happens, hop on then and say, Oh, you've, you know, had such a good call last week.

Do you mind if we hop on a call or do you mind if I ask you a few questions and make it part of your process? You know, it needs to be this is what I tend to do at this stage. You know, when people have gone through the first bit, they tend to have a big moment and then I get a testimonial then and then we complete our work together.

It could be even positioned as a review. Yeah, yeah. Let's have a feedback session where you tell me how wonderful I am and I capture it.

Teresa: And then I share it with the world. Thank you very much.

Janine: I'll share it to the world with your permission.

Teresa: That's brilliant. And I think, like I said, I think these things, and you said it earlier, you know, none of this is like rocket science in the sense of, you know, something that we've never heard of like, if only, but it is that constant reminder of, we've got to keep showing up and doing those things.

We've got to ask for the sale. We've got to put ourselves out there. We've got to, you know, be confident when we're pricing things. There's so much good stuff that we've gone over today that I feel like people will need to listen again, because we've covered niching, pricing, testimonials, selling a one to one service, like so much stuff.

Janine, I know you have some awesome links for people to check out to get some more help on this if they need it. What can they get from you?

Janine: So we mentioned the charge more guide, which you can get from www.janinecoombes.co.uk/charge-more-guide. Not very snappy. Should work on that.

Teresa: Hey, does what it says on the tin. That's fine. We'll link to it in the show notes. And you also have another helpful freebie in terms of getting sales. So what's that?

Janine: That one, thank you for mentioning it, is my coaching sales jetpack, brand new, janinecoombs.co.uk/jetpack. Right. We'll grab that as well.

Teresa: Brilliant stuff. Thank you, Janine. This has been really, really good. A very broad but fascinating conversation. Where can people come and find you? Where do you hang out the most?

Janine: LinkedIn is my online home. Do come along and join, join me there. Connect. Come and say “Hi”.

Teresa: Nice. And you'll see Janine doing some dancing, doing a bit of fooling around. I like it. I like it. It's nice. Awesome. Thank you so much Janine. It's been a pleasure to have you on.

Janine: Thanks so much.